Baruuk's Desert Wind stats are just a copy* of Valkyr's Talons

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Finally someone with a functional brain that knows how de operates, you other guys can Yap all you want, but in the end if de ever touches Baruuk again, he will be rather nerfed to the ground, into uselessness, instead of buffed. (Like giving his 2 a 10m range with 10 seconds duration, removing daggers from his 3, reducing range and crit from his 4)

Kind of funny that after so many years of supporting a company almost no one gets it how they work.

I just want to play him before he's made into another Warframe that collects dust because the community decided so..

You can't get a buff without a nerf happening first in this game.. because of bAlAnCe.. 

(Not to mention the months of wait before changes, like if de buffs his 4 now, in a few months they nerf it again or nerf something else in his kit)

None of this accurate. They gave Harrow a direct buff after his release with no downsides. DE is fully capable of buffing a frame without nerfing something else. Baruuk isn’t good enough to justify a post release nerf.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

18 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You know excal would’ve killed them 10x faster and he didnt have to spend 30 seconds waiting to actually use Exalted blade.

He wouldn’t need over 200% power strength either.

Excalibur doesn't have CC combos. Excalibur doesn't have damage that bypasses level geometry. Excalibur's Exalted Blade can't ignore energy drain effects.

Baruuk doesn't need 200% strength either to be good, his finisher multipliers are insane.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Excalibur doesn't have CC combos. Excalibur doesn't have damage that bypasses level geometry. Excalibur's Exalted Blade can't ignore energy drain effects.

Baruuk doesn't need 200% strength either to be good, his finisher multipliers are insane.

An exalted melee shouldn’t only be viable for damage with a finisher.

CC effect do not justify low damage.

Exalted blades projectiles actually do pass through walls.

and well you got me on the energy drain one. But it still doesn’t justify Serene storms lack of killing power.

[Gurpgork]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Excalibur doesn't have CC combos. Excalibur doesn't have damage that bypasses level geometry. Excalibur's Exalted Blade can't ignore energy drain effects.

Baruuk doesn't need 200% strength either to be good, his finisher multipliers are insane.

Excal is also fully capable of whipping out the blade at the start of the mission and not putting it away until extraction. Not to mention that EB absolutely does bypass map geometry. 

If finishers are the reason that is damage is good, then wouldn’t I be just as well off slotting a dagger with CL and never bothering with Serene Storm? 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

An exalted melee shouldn’t only be viable for damage with a finisher.

CC effect do not justify low damage.

Exalted blades projectiles actually do pass through walls.

and well you got me on the energy drain one. But it still doesn’t justify Serene storms lack of killing power.

Okay, direct hits with Desert Wind do a bunch of damage.

CC does justify it if it's supposed to be used as a CC weapon and not a killing machine. As DE said, it's a unique weapon.

Got me on that one.

[Gurpgork]

Double post. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gurpgork

[Gurpgork]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

CC does justify it if it's supposed to be used as a CC weapon and not a killing machine. As DE said, it's a unique weapon.

Why should it be a CC weapon? The rest of his kit is CC in some form or another, and Lull is much better at that than Serene Storm is. I’d be much more willing to accept it as a CC ability if it a) didn’t replace my use of a weapon that I guarantee is more powerful than Serene Storm and b) wasn’t just as lackluster at CC as it is at damage.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gurpgork

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Okay, direct hits with Desert Wind do a bunch of damage.

CC does justify it if it's supposed to be used as a CC weapon and not a killing machine. As DE said, it's a unique weapon.

Got me on that one.

But Baruuk is supposed to be reluctant in using it, hence the restraint meter. If it’s crap at killing he should have no issue using it. It is a unique weapon but unique does not equal good.

[robbybe01234]

Well, for the way those fists are designed it seems exalted blade can kill lvl120+ armored targets more quickly.  Well, the way regulators are designed they can kill more quickly than even exalted blade.  So the problem is solved by using regulators then.  Then for the next ability DE makes, I will expect it to kill even faster than regulators or else why bother?

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

19 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You know excal would’ve killed them 10x faster and he didnt have to spend 30 seconds waiting to actually use Exalted blade.

He wouldn’t need over 200% power strength either.

If anything thats an argument for excals exalted bkade being too good \_(.-.)_/

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

If anything thats an argument for excals exalted bkade being too good \_(.-.)_/

Nope. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nope. 

Dont get me wrong, im not advocating a nerf. However there is a stigma in the community as a whole that “if thing A is not better then the best thing B, then thing A is worthless”

 

We see that in this very topic. People say Serene Storm is worthless/bad/needing of buff because it is not better then Exalted blade. But this is flawed thinking and leads to nothing but major powercreep. 

 

Granted, I have yet to play baruuk myself, but I have seen many videos showing that he can indeed do fairly well in endurance runs, and sure, he’s not going to be the absolute best at the runs, sure exalted blade may do things slightly faster, but that doesnt make Baruuk weak, since his kit is also different and has advantages Excal doesnt

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, robbybe01234 said:

Well, for the way those fists are designed it seems exalted blade can kill lvl120+ armored targets more quickly.  Well, the way regulators are designed they can kill more quickly than even exalted blade.  So the problem is solved by using regulators then.  Then for the next ability DE makes, I will expect it to kill even faster than regulators or else why bother?

Peacemaker costs 5 times as much energy as Exalted Blade, respects LoS, and restricts your movement. Ergo, it is entirely appropriate for it to do more work than Exalted Blade. 

On the other hand, Serene Storm is restricted with the Restraint mechanic whereas EB has no such restrictions. Therefore, it is not appropriate for EB to be straight-up better than Serene Storm. 

This isn’t a “it’s the literal new best thing in the game or it’s trash” debate. It’s entirely about Serene Storm having more restrictions than abilities that are strictly better than it. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Gurpgork

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

People say

To be fair, my friend, it's mostly just that guy there telling everyone it's bad and needs a buff when they haven't played the frame... Even in the face of other people pointing out and providing evidence to show that it handles content exceptionally well.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

21 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

Almost makes the difference - Polish commercial 🙂

So... what's your point? You wanna say that both Valkyr's Talons and Baruuk Fists are... weak? Useless? Or maybe You just have NO IDEA how to build those?

OK, let me help you with that...

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Baruuk/t_30_4003332333_2-0-10-4-3-5-5-4-5-12-2-10-34-8-5-55-7-5-58-9-5-411-6-10-860-5-5-873-1-10_2-6-873-16-12-16-4-5-5-5-860-4-411-8-55-6-34-14-58-5_0/en/1-0-68/205689/0

Try it and than answer, ok?

 

You do know that's overkill right?  You can build for gas damage on his fists at 200% power strength and go much further with less investment.  Check out distant observers video if you don't believe me.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

21 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

To be fair, my friend, it's mostly just that guy there telling everyone it's bad and needs a buff when they haven't played the frame... Even in the face of other people pointing out and providing evidence to show that it handles content exceptionally well.

Hey “That Guy” here. He needs a buff.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

Why should it be a CC weapon? The rest of his kit is CC in some form or another, and Lull is much better at that than Serene Storm is. I’d be much more willing to accept it as a CC ability if it a) didn’t replace my use of a weapon that I guarantee is more powerful than Serene Storm and b) wasn’t just as lackluster at CC as it is at damage.

Why should you use Ash over Octavia? Variety.

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Hey “That Guy” here. He needs a buff.

*and follows that statement up with little (negligible) to no evidence as to why he needs a buff other than his damage falls off in some instances at around level 100*

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Dont get me wrong, im not advocating a nerf. However there is a stigma in the community as a whole that “if thing A is not better then the best thing B, then thing A is worthless”

 

We see that in this very topic. People say Serene Storm is worthless/bad/needing of buff because it is not better then Exalted blade. But this is flawed thinking and leads to nothing but major powercreep. 

 

Granted, I have yet to play baruuk myself, but I have seen many videos showing that he can indeed do fairly well in endurance runs, and sure, he’s not going to be the absolute best at the runs, sure exalted blade may do things slightly faster, but that doesnt make Baruuk weak, since his kit is also different and has advantages Excal doesnt

^^^^

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

*and follows that statement up with little (negligible) to no evidence as to why he needs a buff other than his damage falls off in some instances at around level 100*

There are 3 pages worth of me arguing this. I’m not going to keep repeating the same thing again just to tell Birb that I know he’s talking about me.

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Excalibur doesn't have CC combos.

Slide attack, the sole use of the slide attack is CC.

Also has knockdown on the hold E combo.

Edited January 28, 2019 by DeMonkey

[Gurpgork]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Why should you use Ash over Octavia? Variety.

Variety implies that it's comparable to other choices. The whole point of weapons is to deal damage. If it can't do that competitively with other weapons, then it is not a good weapon. The mediocre CC it has, which is vastly eclipsed by the other CC within Baruuk's kit, can't make up for that. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

We see that in this very topic. People say Serene Storm is worthless/bad/needing of buff because it is not better then Exalted blade. But this is flawed thinking and leads to nothing but major powercreep.

It's not just that it's worse than Exalted Blade, it's that it's worse and has more restrictions. If it's going to have additional requirements that EB does not have, then it should be at least as good as EB. It's not power creep to have an appropriate cost/payoff ratio compared to other abilities like it. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There are 3 pages worth of me arguing this. I’m not going to keep repeating the same thing again just to tell Birb that I know he’s talking about me.

There are three pages worth of you not backing up your arguments, re-stating things that other people have taken the time and energy to refute with actual evidence, and failing to produce anything more than opinions about something you haven't even tried yourself yet.

Grow up.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

There are three pages worth of you not backing up your arguments, re-stating things that other people have taken the time and energy to refute with actual evidence, and failing to produce anything more than opinions about something you haven't even tried yourself yet.

Grow up.

He. Needs. A. Buff.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He. Needs. A. Buff.

Where. Is. Your. Proof?

You haven't provided any. Just repeated yourself even in the face of actual evidence that he can, and does, perform at the levels of play other frames are capable of.

Why. Does. He. Need. One?

You haven't given any reason other than a base demand for it to be literally over-powered on the opinion that it's part of his theme, when he can clearly function completely fine without having one.

I. Can. Do. This. Too.

So get some facts behind this, or sit down and let the adults talk.

[robbybe01234]

You know, exalted blade doesn't have damage reduction as an attribute and is gated behind energy....it should be buffed to bring it in line with these fists.

A kind of fun write up would be to get serene storm to the point where players start asking "why use valkyr when baruuk does everything she does but better?"  That is assuming we can agree on an expected lvl range.  Something like 50-120 as a tentative example.