Nightwave concept is shafting new and casual players

[Neofit26]

10 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Actually I've just gotten such a "friend" in the recruitment channel. What do we do, a low level 60 min survival? Lol he says, I was thinking about a Kuva so we do both at the same time. I never did a Kuva I say. I'll carry you he says, stand there, don't kill, don't move, let me slash and desecrate. About 40 mins in he dies, heck, if I don't move I don't get much energy for my Blesses, he ragequits, and then I die twice before I realize he's gone, then again twice before I can get to the exit. Thanks a lot for the wonderful friend experience, I'm really looking forward for more. 

your words not mine.

So you not only think that typing is hard ("In the time it took you to complain about all this"), but your takeaway from this is that *I* asked to be carried? Carry on, I'm totally interested in more of your opinions.

[Test-995]

how about, keeping BOTH at same time?

then we don't have to grind or wait for RNGness anymore!

[Neofit26]

9 minutes ago, Enexemander said:

At MR20, Kuva survival shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes it's good if the game pushes us a little.

I had never done it before today, and it's really simple once you get the basics. YouTube has some good guides.

There are different ways to reach MR20. Mine was investing a lot of time and resources into making and leveling up weapons and warframes. I don't have a single interesting riven, a couple of forma'ed weapons, that's enough for me atm, *and* I am (was?) having fun with the game.

 

Kuva survival was not a problem and is not complicated. Up until minute 30 I could have easily soloed it. It's the insanity of forcing people to go to the 1h mark that is stupid. With made up friends even more. I'd much rather do three 20 min runs in a PUG instead, for a variety of reasons, and the game pushing me to do otherwise is not good.

[Neofit26]

8 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

how about, keeping BOTH at same time?

then we don't have to grind or wait for RNGness anymore!

That's one option. Or, since many people were complaining that they were never there when the good alerts were up (as if they were the only ones with jobs), the alerts could be tweaked. More of them at different hours - since people usually don't stay on for 24 hours straight there is no chance of them getting too much of a good thing. Or make these alerts for reactors/catalysts/nitain last 12 or 24 hours, like the ones for the 10 useless relics that we get on week-ends. Problem solved, and costs much less than making this whole wolf thingy :).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

11 minutes ago, Neofit26 said:

There are different ways to reach MR20. Mine was investing a lot of time and resources into making and leveling up weapons and warframes. I don't have a single interesting riven, a couple of forma'ed weapons, that's enough for me atm, *and* I am (was?) having fun with the game.

 

Kuva survival was not a problem and is not complicated. Up until minute 30 I could have easily soloed it. It's the insanity of forcing people to go to the 1h mark that is stupid. With made up friends even more. I'd much rather do three 20 min runs in a PUG instead, for a variety of reasons, and the game pushing me to do otherwise is not good.

Sorry but that just sounds like you can't manage the enemies at 60 minutes. You don't even need a riven, you just need a decent group setup.

[Test-995]

14 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Sorry but that just sounds like you can't manage the enemies at 60 minutes. You don't even need a riven, you just need a decent group setup.

Problem is kuvas are practically worthless when player doesn't have interest for riven, i guess?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Test-995

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Test-995 said:

Problem is kuvas are practically worthless when player doesn't have interest for riven, i guess?

Well that's true too although I would never do a Kuva survival for gathering kuva as there are faster ways. At that point though it's a simple question - do they value their time more? Or do they value getting the cosmetics and items from the standing tiers more? 
You want the shiny toys, you earn them. Simple. 

[-Azumarill-]

10 hours ago, Neofit26 said:

I'm MR20. I gave it a few days, and I don't like the changes. At first it seemed nice, like some extra challenges to get extra rewards while doing the things I liked to do. But then the alerts that I still had were done, and it turned out that the game is now forcing me to do things I don't like to do in order to get the same rewards I used to.

I used to get stuff, maybe slowly, but doing stuff that I wanted to do. An alert came along as a diversion, I'd spend a few minutes on it, then go back to my regular stuff. Since the changes, I haven't gotten *anything* so far, *and* spent my time doing stuff I did not want to do. 

Nitain alarms were generated at 4 per day. I used to have one almost every day, sometimes two, but since the changes I got zero, while at the same time having a miserable time doing things I didn't like. After forcing myself to do a few missions, I got the first 50 WCs. But I hesitate to use them on Nitain, since I also need the Catalyst and Rector stuff, that you also hid behind the wall of stuff I don't want to do, and/or Elite stuff I simply cannot do.

I've played to MR20 with PUGs only. Never needed a clanmate nor an in-game virtual "friend". Sure, I'm in a clan, we are contributing, everything is researched, but PUGs work fine. You forced me to artificially make one for one sortie. Did I enjoy it? Not a single part of the experience. Now I have to go through it again for another "tedium challenge". Thanks a lot. I'm not a shy child that needs encouragement to go out to play with some friends. Stop forcing me to.

 I've never needed nor even thought of running a 60 mins mission. I'm getting bored at around the 20 mins mark already. This week either I do 2 of them, or I lose 10K of those tardipoints. Thanks for the interesting "challenge".

Actually I've just gotten such a "friend" in the recruitment channel. What do we do, a low level 60 min survival? Lol he says, I was thinking about a Kuva so we do both at the same time. I never did a Kuva I say. I'll carry you he says, stand there, don't kill, don't move, let me slash and desecrate. About 40 mins in he dies, heck, if I don't move I don't get much energy for my Blesses, he ragequits, and then I die twice before I realize he's gone, then again twice before I can get to the exit. Thanks a lot for the wonderful friend experience, I'm really looking forward for more. 

I've never much hunted Eidolons. I didn't like the experience and postponed that content until I get all the waybounds (4 more schools to go). I can barely reach the 20% damage on a Theralyst, but yesterday I had to piss off with my newbiness a group of 3 Hydrolyst hunters. I bet I am not the only one, and all these people are thanking you for the awesomeness of the challenge.

Get some "perfect animal captures"? WTF is this? Oh, some Fortuna thing? I've never set foot in there, plenty to finish in the rest of the game before I start the last expansion, I'm not rushing in now for some dumb challenge, past content I'd rather enjoy slowly in the right time. So now because of that I won't be able to get catalysts/reactors/nitain, that used to get enough of before the changes?

Finding 5 Ayatan sculptures in a week? Seriously? Unless one has absolutely nothing left to do in the game, I can't imagine how this can be something that one "gets rewards for as he plays along". I thoroughly searched 6 syndicate maps, got a total of zero. Either give us an Ayatan Treasure Hunt per day, or scrap this achievement altogether.

If the new thing was an extra way ontop of the old alerts to get more stuff as we play along, it would be awesome. As a way for the game to force people to do what they don't like, it is terrible. Add the stress to not be able to get the usual rare stuff because half of the achievements are in fact unachievable, and the old RNG alerts now look awesome. The current system is forcing old timers to go back to doing things they don't anymore apparently, and is preventing newer players from getting about half the faction. 

Alerts were better. Slightly tweaked to allow them to appear in different time zones or for longer periods, and they'd be perfect. Not the nonsense we are having today. 

 

Yeah I get what you're saying. Like for me, I find slaying eidolons, kuva survival, hunting, ayatans, and whipping crewmen absolutely not enjoyable, which is why I've never tried any of them at all. What I really like is defection. Defection IMHO is the best game mode that DE has ever invented: the thrill of saving the ever-so-grateful grineer, the fearsome level 40 infested chargers threatening to destroy my objective, the incredible challenge of pressing my ever-important bastille over and over again as my mouse swings in frantic circles. Isn't it great? But the rewards are so poor...I think that in order for other players to experience this amazing mission in its full glory, all Nightwave rewards should be tied to defection.

Oh and I also use the highly efficient levelling method of 30-wave Hydron sometimes. It's gotten me the experience of an MR 21, but I stay at MR 19 as the test requires flying forward in an Archwing, and I don't find that enjoyable.

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, -Azumarill- said:

Yeah I get what you're saying. Like for me, I find slaying eidolons, kuva survival, hunting, ayatans, and whipping crewmen absolutely not enjoyable, which is why I've never tried any of them at all. What I really like is defection. Defection IMHO is the best game mode that DE has ever invented: the thrill of saving the ever-so-grateful grineer, the fearsome level 40 infested chargers threatening to destroy my objective, the incredible challenge of pressing my ever-important bastille over and over again as my mouse swings in frantic circles. Isn't it great? But the rewards are so poor...I think that in order for other players to experience this amazing mission in its full glory, all Nightwave rewards should be tied to defection.

Oh and I also use the highly efficient levelling method of 30-wave Hydron sometimes. It's gotten me the experience of an MR 21, but I stay at MR 19 as the test requires flying forward in an Archwing, and I don't find that enjoyable.

Excuse me, sir? Sir? Yes sorry, I think you dropped this:

/s

 

😉

[(PSN)Limorkil]

I feel completely “shafted”.  I already know I won’t get close to rank 30.   In fact, I’m already looking at Warframe like it’s a chore, and I am looking at other games to play instead.  

What many hardcore players fail to grasp is that the old alert system was fine for casuals.  We are not in a hurry, so missing an alert that will come around again is not a big deal.   I have all the helmets for example, and plenty of niatain extract.  

The only problem with Nightwave is the overall time limit of ten weeks.  I can’t get there in that time so my incentive to try is minimal.  Remove the time limit and I will happily take 6 months to get to rank 30.  I have no problem with that.  

There is no downside for hardcore players.  Have people who get to rank 30 roll to the next ranking event.  

No one loses.  

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

I feel completely “shafted”.  I already know I won’t get close to rank 30.   In fact, I’m already looking at Warframe like it’s a chore, and I am looking at other games to play instead.  

What many hardcore players fail to grasp is that the old alert system was fine for casuals.  We are not in a hurry, so missing an alert that will come around again is not a big deal.   I have all the helmets for example, and plenty of niatain extract.  

The only problem with Nightwave is the overall time limit of ten weeks.  I can’t get there in that time so my incentive to try is minimal.  Remove the time limit and I will happily take 6 months to get to rank 30.  I have no problem with that.  

There is no downside for hardcore players.  Have people who get to rank 30 roll to the next ranking event.  

No one loses.  

Let me turn that around for you so you understand.

I feel completely "shafted" I already know I'll easily blow past rank 30 cos there's no challenge. In fact I'm already looking at other games to play while I wait for more challenging content from Warframe. 
What many casual players fail to grasp is that the old alert system was boring for experienced players. We're not in a hurry but there was literally no alerts worth doing because we already have millions of resources stored and ready. 
The only problem with Nightwave is how easy it is which is why our incentive to try is minimal because with all the casuals complaining, they're ruining our game experience by forcing DE to lower the difficulty. 
The only downside is that we still have nothing interesting or challenging to do. 
Experienced players lose out yet again.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[Nyx219]

7 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Let me turn that around for you so you understand.

I feel completely "shafted" I already know I'll easily blow past rank 30 cos there's no challenge. In fact I'm already looking at other games to play while I wait for more challenging content from Warframe. 
What many casual players fail to grasp is that the old alert system was boring for experienced players. We're not in a hurry but there was literally no alerts worth doing because we already have millions of resources stored and ready. 
The only problem with Nightwave is how easy it is which is why our incentive to try is minimal because with all the casuals complaining, they're ruining our game experience by forcing DE to lower the difficulty. 
The only downside is that we still have nothing interesting or challenging to do. 
Experienced players lose out yet again.

Ergo, keep both. You get your shiny thing, we keep what works. Win/win.

 

NW is a huge failure, it pleases just a few bored veterans, is a massive chore for everybody else, and a big block for n00bs. 1 win out of 3 parts to consider is a still an unapologetic fail.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, Nyx219 said:

Ergo, keep both. You get your shiny thing, we keep what works. Win/win.

 

NW is a huge failure, it pleases just a few bored veterans, is a massive chore for everybody else, and a big block for n00bs. 1 win out of 3 parts to consider is a still an unapologetic fail.

Currently without doing many of the ELITE challenges, casual players can reach rank 30. And more experienced players have at least SOMETHING to do, albeit not very challenging but it's better than when we had alerts. But if people keep complaining the whole thing becomes casual again and there's no challenge AT ALL for the longer term players. 

[Nyx219]

16 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Currently without doing many of the ELITE challenges, casual players can reach rank 30. And more experienced players have at least SOMETHING to do, albeit not very challenging but it's better than when we had alerts. But if people keep complaining the whole thing becomes casual again and there's no challenge AT ALL for the longer term players. 

What part of "co-exist" do you folks keep missing? It's not that hard to understand nobody wants NW to be removed, we just want Alerts back alongside it.

 

I doubt I can hit lvl 30, I'm still sitting at 7k earned since this thing dropped. I don't have the time to just drop everything and farm rep to get ONE THING. I do, however, have time to farm an Alert for 20 minutes or less. I also don't see the logic in spending far more than 20 minutes to get that ONE thing.

 

This "screw you, we got ours" attitude is not going to fare well in the community. There's no sense of compromise (having BOTH systems) whatsoever. Just a lot of smugness.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Nyx219

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

What part of "co-exist" do you folks keep missing? It's not that hard to understand nobody wants NW to be removed, we just want Alerts back alongside it.

 

I doubt I can hit 30,000, I'm still sitting at 7k since this thing dropped. I don't have the time to just drop everything and farm rep to get ONE THING. I do, however, have time to farm an Alert for 20 minutes or less. I also don't see the logic in spending far more than 20 minutes to get that ONE thing.

 

This "screw you, we got ours" attitude is not going to fare well in the community. There's no sense of compromise (having BOTH systems) whatsoever. Just a lot of smugness.

Yeh but that's not gonna happen is it? What's going to happen is that DE listens to the casual crowd(as usual) and makes all the challenges much easier so that they don't keep throwing their toys out the pram. I'd be quite ok with the system you suggest but reality is a different story, so excuse me if I'm a little annoyed.

The things that you get from alerts are so easy to obtain it's laughable. Nobody wants to put any effort into the game, that's all. I can tell you how to get any of it, quickly and easily.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

23 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

Ergo, keep both. You get your shiny thing, we keep what works. Win/win.

 

NW is a huge failure, it pleases just a few bored veterans, is a massive chore for everybody else, and a big block for n00bs. 1 win out of 3 parts to consider is a still an unapologetic fail.

Yeah, no Nightwave is not a huge failure a handful of people complaining does not speak for the community as a whole. See the Megathread when they changed the UI to a cursor. 100X more replies within half the time. Most people are off playing and enjoying it. I'm only on the forums because I can't play Warframe at work.

[marelooke]

20 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

Ergo, keep both. You get your shiny thing, we keep what works. Win/win.

 

NW is a huge failure, it pleases just a few bored veterans, is a massive chore for everybody else, and a big block for n00bs. 1 win out of 3 parts to consider is a still an unapologetic fail.

It doesn't please veterans, it mostly pleases people that are somewhere in the middle of the progression curve. For veterans it just adds a lot of chores for little gain as we do not need 90% of what is on offer so the work necessary to get to the other 10% (which is mostly in the reward track) feels rather disproportionate.

Most veterans are used to making up their own endgame as we've been doing so for the last six years, we don't need a check-list of chores to keep us busy.

[Nyx219]

2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Yeh but that's not gonna happen is it? What's going to happen is that DE listens to the casual crowd(as usual) and makes all the challenges much easier so that they don't keep throwing their toys out the pram. I'd be quite ok with the system you suggest but reality is a different story, so excuse me if I'm a little annoyed.

The things that you get from alerts are so easy to obtain it's laughable. Nobody wants to put any effort into the game, that's all. I can tell you how to get any of it, quickly and easily.

Bah, you got me before the correction edit XD

 

Anyway, stranger things have happened. Judging by here, Reddit, and SM in general, they might be squirming more than you think.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, marelooke said:

It doesn't please veterans, it mostly pleases people that are somewhere in the middle of the progression curve. For veterans it just adds a lot of chores for little gain as we do not need 90% of what is on offer so the work necessary to get to the other 10% (which is mostly in the reward track) feels rather disproportionate.

Most veterans are used to making up their own endgame as we've been doing so for the last six years, we don't need a check-list of chores to keep us busy.

I'd much rather the content was harder yes but at least it's something to do although you're correct saying a lot of them are boring. The kuva survival was ok though, talking banter with clan mates for an hour. Can't make it too hard if it's going to appease both parties unfortunately.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, Nyx219 said:

Bah, you got me before the correction edit XD

 

Anyway, stranger things have happened. Judging by here, Reddit, and SM in general, they might be squirming more than you think.

haha sorry about that. 😄
But I mean it, everything from alerts is obtainable with ease. The 2 fastest methods are cracking relics in fissures and doing vault runs to sell corrupt mods. I promise you you'll make easy plat very fast and forget all about that alert that had a forma blueprint not showing up. As for resources like polymer bundles etc, a half decent farming group in recruit chat can net far more for your time. Aura mods can be bought for next to nothing on trade chat or wf market, veterans have dozens of each. etc etc

edit: Apologies, checked your profile, you're not new. You know exactly what I mean then. But newer players don't seem to know these things yet and they could easily get everything they miss from alerts just using these tricks. the only thing I sympathize with them on is Nitain, since you can't buy it. But it does only cost 15 wolf credits so just buy that and use plat for the rest.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Zilchy

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

 

9 minutes ago, marelooke said:

It doesn't please veterans, it mostly pleases people that are somewhere in the middle of the progression curve. For veterans it just adds a lot of chores for little gain as we do not need 90% of what is on offer so the work necessary to get to the other 10% (which is mostly in the reward track) feels rather disproportionate.

Most veterans are used to making up their own endgame as we've been doing so for the last six years, we don't need a check-list of chores to keep us busy.

As veteran please do not speak for veterans. I'm enjoying it.

[marelooke]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

 

As veteran please do not speak for veterans. I'm enjoying it.

I did say "most veterans". There's always some people that want to be told how to play.

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

3 minutes ago, marelooke said:

I did say "most veterans". There's always some people that want to be told how to play.

No, you said, "It doesn't please veterans."

You only said, "most veterans" in regards to creating their own endgame.

And it's not telling me how to play. When they added Eidolons it wasn't telling me how to play, when they added syndicates it wasn't telling me how to play. When they added Sorties it wasn't telling me how to play. it was saying here's more variety to the things you can do in this game.

[marelooke]

40 minutes ago, (XB1)Tatakai no Kami said:

No, you said, "It doesn't please veterans."

You only said, "most veterans" in regards to creating their own endgame.

And it's not telling me how to play. When they added Eidolons it wasn't telling me how to play, when they added syndicates it wasn't telling me how to play. When they added Sorties it wasn't telling me how to play. it was saying here's more variety to the things you can do in this game.

Exactly, because it's constantly made out by a loud minority as if this somehow is a great thing for all veterans, but is hurting newbies. I found it rather necessary to point out that quite a number of veterans (especially those of us who have pretty much everything in the game) would beg to differ that being told how to play for the few measly rewards we care for is so great for us.

You need to do 70% of all Nightwave chores to get to the end of the reward track, ergo, if you want any of those rewards you are forced to do the vast majority of the chores laid out before you. This has been pointed out a billion times, if you choose to ignore this fact then that's on you. If you enjoy all the content that's in these tasks, that's great for you, but judging by the forums and Reddit (not to mention many people I've spoken to that aren't as vocal) a rather large portion of the playerbase would disagree.

Note also that if this was a one off event then I'd be fine with this, but this is supposed to be a system to replace alerts with, iow it'll be like this for the next who-knows-how-many-years and in that respect I'm not OK with the current implementation, at all.

Edited March 5, 2019 by marelooke

[(XBOX)Tatakai no Kami]

3 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Exactly, because it's constantly made out by a loud minority as if this somehow is a great thing for all veterans, but is hurting newbies. I found it rather necessary to point out that quite a number of veterans (especially those of us who have pretty much everything in the game) would beg to differ that being told how to play for the few measly rewards we care for is so great for us.

You need to do 70% of all Nightwave chores to get to the end of the reward track, ergo, if you want any of those rewards you are forced to do the vast majority of the chores laid out before you. This has been pointed out a billion times, if you choose to ignore this fact then that's on you. If you enjoy all the content that's in these tasks, that's great for you, but judging by the forums and Reddit (not to mention many people I've spoken to that aren't as vocal) a rather large portion of the playerbase would disagree.

Note also that if this was a one off event then I'd be fine with this, but this is supposed to be a system to replace alerts with, iow it'll be like this for the next who-knows-how-many-years and in that respect I'm not OK with the current implementation, at all.

Exactly? Exactly what?

Exactly, that I proved you a liar?

You said all veterans, and when you denied this I pointed out again you said all veterans. As I said don't speak for veterans, speak for yourself.

And to be clear you are the loud minority. Why? Because if I wasn't at work I would not be browsing these forums and would be playing the game and doing other things. Most people who are happy about something do not come on the forums to praise it. They are too busy enjoying it. That is human nature. 

And you only need to earn 60% of the challenge rewards per week. If you do the basic challenges and the dailies that is 28K per week which is 65%, On top of that with the random Escapees it's easy to earn more than enough without worrying about the elite challenges.

You mustn't have been on the forums when then Ui changed. The number of people not liking this is a very tiny fraction compared to that.