Regarding the Nightwave feedback.

[Silverplushie]

I've been reading through the feedback people have been leaving regarding the Nightwave system, and I figured I'd toss my two cents into the mix.

I think people are panicking and making a mountain out of a molehill. People are failing to comprehend that this is a NEW SYSTEM, replacing another system that existed for 6 years. This is only the second round of "acts" DE has put together. This is a data collection phase for DE. What do I mean by that? Its simple, DE needs to see what acts people actually complete, and use that data as well as the general player data they collect to see which demographics are doing the various acts they toss our way. They need to find a balance between many factors, such as the difficulty, time/reward ratios, total time invested and numerous others. Again, this is a new system that is replacing a 6 year old one. I fully expect for there to be bumps along the way, but the reaction I've been seeing from players is a bit ridiculous. Yes, the old system might have fit your specific lifestyles better, but as a whole, I think Nightwave will fit even better once they tweak it.

There will always be a loud minority that dislikes change. They might even use accurate data to back up their shouting. To be clear I'm not saying that to invalidate peoples feedback. I'm saying that there are people who will do anything to keep what they know, even if a new thing is better in the long run.

I'd be willing to be 5k plat that once the dust settles, and DE has had the time needed to collect data and make adjustments to Nightwave, 90% of the playerbase will prefer it over the old system. There is always a buffer period where stuff isn't perfect when implementing a new system. I for one am willing to wait to see how things are tweaked before crying and shouting at DE.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Silverfields
extra space that ruined formatting

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

Agreed, and I also suspect that DE can change the challenges and point values on the fly if not enough people are completing them. We might not have to wait till next nightwave to see positive changes.

 

Also, They said themselves that they can still manually add whatever alerts they want to whenever they want, so there’s still that.

[Silverplushie]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Agreed, and I also suspect that DE can change the challenges and point values on the fly if not enough people are completing them. We might not have to wait till next nightwave to see positive changes.

 

Also, They said themselves that they can still manually add whatever alerts they want to whenever they want, so there’s still that.

Exactly. People are triggered over the slightest thing that inconveniences them, without thinking about how it might benefit others. DE needs to see how the playerbase is responding in game, I doubt they care that much about the whinging crybabies on the forums. This isn't the type of thing a YTer will make noise about because they understand that this is a trial period. I just wish all of the people whining on the forums would understand that as well.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

I doubt they care that much about the whinging crybabies on the forums.

Framing everyone who is complaining as a "whinging crybaby" is totally going to make people agree with you and make your argument worth supporting.

Spoiler

/sarcasm

 

[Tellakey]

Um... you do realize that our expressing dislike for the new system is how DE learns, right? 

[Castlefrost]

3 hours ago, Silverfields said:

I'd be willing to be 5k plat that once the dust settles, and DE has had the time needed to collect data and make adjustments to Nightwave, 90% of the playerbase will prefer it over the old system. 

Yeah uhm..im just gonna bet against it cos i need some plat to buy potatoes. Even tho i feel you are right and i am very much pro for it, i need the plat more so im going all in...im betting the most expensive item i have...a plague kripath riven 😞 its saddening to let it go but my mesa needz a tater 😞

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Mountain out of a molehill is an understatement itself people are freaking out they now have to do multiple things over the course og a week to get a bunch of stuff (Including plat bought stuff like slots n noggles and armor previously NEVER been alert available) it's plainly ridiculous to me how much panic is happening over something that's clearly more rewarding and more workable when you have real life. I work 5 days a week n I'll likely have this week's set of stuff done BEFORE the weekend hits when I have time off.

[(PSN)thowed]

If it would've changed the other way around it would probably be even worse.  I could see being able to buy nitain and then having to wait for random alerts.  People hate change and like what they're used to.

[Silverplushie]

17 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Framing everyone who is complaining as a "whinging crybaby" is totally going to make people agree with you and make your argument worth supporting.

  Reveal hidden contents

/sarcasm

 

I never said that everyone providing critique was a crybaby. I'm primarily annoyed at the people that think the world revolves around them. The people who mention their singular lives as a justification for demanding the old alert system back, because its fits their schedule better. They don't think at all how it might benefit others. just how it ruins THEIR life.

11 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Um... you do realize that our expressing dislike for the new system is how DE learns, right? 

Obviously. There is a difference between feedback, and pointless whining.

 

[Silverplushie]

13 minutes ago, Castlefrost said:

Yeah uhm..im just gonna bet against it cos i need some plat to buy potatoes. Even tho i feel you are right and i am very much pro for it, i need the plat more so im going all in...im betting the most expensive item i have...a plague kripath riven 😞 its saddening to let it go but my mesa needz a tater 😞

Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, Nightwaves fix that issue. Both types of potatoes cost 75 wolfcreds each. You won't have to spend plat on them now that Nightwaves are a thing..

[FlusteredFerret]

3 hours ago, Silverfields said:

I've been reading through the feedback people have been leaving regarding the Nightwave system, and I figured I'd toss my two cents into the mix.

I think people are panicking and making a mountain out of a molehill. People are failing to comprehend that this is a NEW SYSTEM, replacing another system that existed for 6 years. This is only the second round of "acts" DE has put together. This is a data collection phase for DE. What do I mean by that? Its simple, DE needs to see what acts people actually complete, and use that data as well as the general player data they collect to see which demographics are doing the various acts they toss our way. They need to find a balance between many factors, such as the difficulty, time/reward ratios, total time invested and numerous others. Again, this is a new system that is replacing a 6 year old one. I fully expect for there to be bumps along the way, but the reaction I've been seeing from players is a bit ridiculous. Yes, the old system might have fit your specific lifestyles better, but as a whole, I think Nightwave will fit even better once they tweak it.

There will always be a loud minority that dislikes change. They might even use accurate data to back up their shouting. To be clear I'm not saying that to invalidate peoples feedback. I'm saying that there are people who will do anything to keep what they know, even if a new thing is better in the long run.

I'd be willing to be 5k plat that once the dust settles, and DE has had the time needed to collect data and make adjustments to Nightwave, 90% of the playerbase will prefer it over the old system. There is always a buffer period where stuff isn't perfect when implementing a new system. I for one am willing to wait to see how things are tweaked before crying and shouting at DE.

 

Good points, well made.

However, this is the internet and people love jumping the gun and ranting before they really understand whats going on. 

Players ask DE to do something different, (in this case Alerts, because they were unhappy at missing Nitain or other missions) ...then they complain when the devs change the alert system. They can't win. 

 

Its a lot like music fans...they complain if a band puts out similar-sounding albums, year after year. They also complain if a band changes their sound / style.

[Ascarith]

45 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

Exactly. People are triggered over the slightest thing that inconveniences them, without thinking about how it might benefit others. DE needs to see how the playerbase is responding in game, I doubt they care that much about the whinging crybabies on the forums. This isn't the type of thing a YTer will make noise about because they understand that this is a trial period. I just wish all of the people whining on the forums would understand that as well.

You realize the reverse of this is equally possible? Sometimes people who perceive benefits don't think about how this might inconvenience others.

16 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

I never said that everyone providing critique was a crybaby. I'm primarily annoyed at the people that think the world revolves around them. The people who mention their singular lives as a justification for demanding the old alert system back, because its fits their schedule better. They don't think at all how it might benefit others. just how it ruins THEIR life.

I'm just curious as to why you think "this ruins my life" is not a valid piece of feedback for DE. At worst, DE now knows one person's life is affected negatively by this decision. More realistically, similarly situated people will also add their voices, so now DE has a better picture of how many people are negatively affected by this. Sure, the forums aren't really representative of the WF population as a whole, but it tackles the human element much better than trying to extrapolate information from in-game data (which is not to say they shouldn't be looking at those numbers). 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Ascarith

[Guest]

It is easier to farm plat than farm wolf creds. Some relic cracking and you can get about 20 - 40 plat from each prime set, even the crappiest. Get a rifle riven from Sortie and that's a quick 40 - 65 plat depending on how despo the buyer is.

The only things in Nightwave really worth it is the unique Syandana, Armor set and Umbra forma. There is a reason why they are the last rewards. I can't care for the helmets or stuff since I mostly buy Deluxe skins (when available) and Tennogen so ...

Maybe I should just spend everything on Catalysts and Nitains. There should be some more incentive to Nightwave, not just the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Guest

[Castlefrost]

13 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, Nightwaves fix that issue. Both types of potatoes cost 75 wolfcreds each. You won't have to spend plat on them now that Nightwaves are a thing..

Oh wut srsly? Thats awesome 😄 i cant wait to do my dailies and weeklies 😄

[Guest]

Just now, Castlefrost said:

Oh wut srsly? Thats awesome 😄 i cant wait to do my dailies and weeklies 😄

Yeah it's true, Reactors and Catalysts are evergreen rewards. It's about two of them every 2 weeks if you keep hitting 30,000 rep per week.

[Silverplushie]

6 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

You realize the reverse of this is equally possible? Sometimes people who perceive benefits don't think about how this might inconvenience others.

I'm just curious as to why you think "this ruins my life" is not a valid piece of feedback for DE. At worst, DE now knows one person's life is affected negatively by this decision. More realistically, similarly situated people will also add their voices, so now DE has a better picture of how many people are negatively affected by this. Sure, the forums aren't really representative of the WF population as a whole, but it tackles the human element much better than trying to extrapolate information from in-game data (which is not to say they shouldn't be looking at those numbers). 

I'm well aware of the downsides of the Nightwave system. For Alertium (Nitain), If you only need one to make something, it was a lot easier to get the singular Nitain. There is also the fact that the alt helmets also were a lot easier to get with the old system. Certain Materials were also obtainable with the old system as well. Theres plenty of other downsides to the Nightwave system that I'm too lazy to type out, but I'm well aware of. By the same rational, you have to admit there were MASSIVE downsides to the old system that are fixed now that Nightwave is a thing.

In the end DE, needs to do whats best for the largest amount of players. There will always be small percentages that get cast aside with changes like these. Its unfortunate, but kinda unavoidable unless you find the golden ratio. Said Golden ratio is impossible to hit on the first attempt. If, in 2 months there are still massive issues with Nightwave, I'll join in on critiquing it.

People are complaining RIGHT NOW, when the system is new, and people don't like new things. I'm willing to be that within a month or two, DE will find the golden ratio that lets everyone get what they need from the Nightwave system.

[Silverplushie]

26 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

It is easier to farm plat than farm wolf creds. Some relic cracking and you can get about 20 - 40 plat from each prime set, even the crappiest. Get a rifle riven from Sortie and that's a quick 40 - 65 plat depending on how despo the buyer is.

The only things in Nightwave really worth it is the unique Syandana, Armor set and Umbra forma. There is a reason why they are the last rewards. I can't care for the helmets or stuff since I mostly buy Deluxe skins (when available) and Tennogen so ...

Maybe I should just spend everything on Catalysts and Nitains. There should be some more incentive to Nightwave, not just the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Your perspective is that of an experienced player who knows how to get what they want. You're an endgame player, so of course the only stuff that interests you is the stuff at the end of the reward track. The reason you think only a few things are "worth it" is because you either have everything else, or you don't want everything else. You're one person. Your position doesn't reflect everyone else's.

Obviously different people will want different things out of Nightwave's reward track/credit store. You have to remember to step back and realize that there are over 40,000 people at a minimum playing this game at a time. DE has to balance Nightwave for ALL of them.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Silverfields
Changed the concurent players number, I was wildly off

[Ephemestic]

5 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

I'm well aware of the downsides of the Nightwave system. For Alertium (Nitain), If you only need one to make something, it was a lot easier to get the singular Nitain. There is also the fact that the alt helmets also were a lot easier to get with the old system. Certain Materials were also obtainable with the old system as well. Theres plenty of other downsides to the Nightwave system that I'm too lazy to type out, but I'm well aware of. By the same rational, you have to admit there were MASSIVE downsides to the old system that are fixed now that Nightwave is a thing.

In the end DE, needs to do whats best for the largest amount of players. There will always be small percentages that get cast aside with changes like these. Its unfortunate, but kinda unavoidable unless you find the golden ratio. Said Golden ratio is impossible to hit on the first attempt. If, in 2 months there are still massive issues with Nightwave, I'll join in on critiquing it.

People are complaining RIGHT NOW, when the system is new, and people don't like new things. I'm willing to be that within a month or two, DE will find the golden ratio that lets everyone get what they need from the Nightwave system.

I definitely agree that the new system obviously has some ups and downs to it.

Some obvious ups

- a stable way for some people to earn nitain without RNG alerts screwing up their lives

- an obvious ways for potatoes to be earned for beginners

- a way of reusing old/not popular content (kuva survival)

and some downs, at least what i feel are downs

- challenges that are downright impossible for new players [5 ayatan scuptures, 60 minutes kuva survival, hydrolyst] [does the kuva even story spoiler at this point? idk]

- challenges that are downright impossible for people with certain conditions [playing with friends, you'll be surprised how many ppl cant do this] [playing straight up a 60min mission, poor internet or real life issues may prevent them from doing so.

 

Really, my only problem with the new system personally is that some of the challenges doesn't seem very well thought of. I mean who decided that 60 minute survival was a good thing? say you have a good clan/friends that can help you out, then good for you. 5 ayatan sculptures? again RNG, some people cant even get any amber stars/sculptures. Ah then you might say to do arbitrations. Unfortunately it's locked behind the full clear system nodes so no good there for new players again.

I think it's okay to reuse old content, kuva survival, or in general make challenges to make some veterans go back to contents they probably aren't doing anymore, but please DE give more reasonable challenges. I understand that this is probably still in the testing phases, but how did some of these ideas for challenges even gets to pass? Did most people in DE thought it was okay for people to play 60 mins in a mode that most people don't like? maybe tweak it down to 20 or 30 minutes? Instead of hydrolyst, maybe teralyst is enough?

I'm just trying to give constructive feedback, in no way do you have to agree with what I think on this issue.

 

[Ascarith]

14 minutes ago, Silverfields said:

In the end DE, needs to do whats best for the largest amount of players. There will always be small percentages that get cast aside with changes like these. Its unfortunate, but kinda unavoidable unless you find the golden ratio. Said Golden ratio is impossible to hit on the first attempt. If, in 2 months there are still massive issues with Nightwave, I'll join in on critiquing it.

People are complaining RIGHT NOW, when the system is new, and people don't like new things. I'm willing to be that within a month or two, DE will find the golden ratio that lets everyone get what they need from the Nightwave system.

Just to be clear, I'm not really debating with you whether Nightwave is good or bad, I'm just pointing out that there are going to be winners and losers. It's not really fair to say "losers ignore that there are winners" without acknowledging that winners often ignore losers. 

Yes, people are complaining right now. It affects their life right now. I'm not sure why that should stop people from giving feedback right now, since that will affect how quickly we get to equilibrium (or if you're cynical, how much we can change before the system is "locked in" and/or put on the back burner).

In some sense, I agree with you (i.e. I assume DE is going to adjust the system to be accessible to most players). I'm just trying to be fair to both sides, because I think you're a little too dismissive of some "losers." 

 

[Uber.Munchkin]

I have enjoyed what I have played of the new system, from my perspective my only concern is that as my play time is pretty much restricted to Saturday & Sunday for around about 4 hours each day I don't think it will ever be possible for me to earn any of the high tier rewards from the season.  I simply won't be able to complete some of the more challenging 'weekly' challenges as I only have about 8 hours to them in.  

Also, of those 8 hours, there is no way I'm spending one of them doing a Kuva survival for an hour. *Shudders*

I really do like the idea of a 'shop' though, I've got so many things that I have been waiting to build but haven't been able to because I only ever managed to get 1 or 2 nitain a week.  Assuming I can get enough cred to buy some from the rewards so that is a welcome change.

I think that given time a data to look at DE will arrive at a nice balance for this new system and it is so much better than the old, purely RNG, one that I'll take it. 🙂

[Silverplushie]

5 minutes ago, Ephemestic said:

-snip-

I agree with all of your critiques. However, I feel the need to point out that only 60-70% of the available standing is needed to max out the reward track. Anything after that just gets you more Wolf Creds. DE has to reward the players who do ALL of it, while also giving enough of a reward to those who don't.

If you're not willing to add someone during a mission to get standing, thats on you. If you have poor internet, that sucks, others don't. If you don't have the time to do hour long survival runs, I feel your pain, but others are willing to put in the time to do it. People assume that they're supposed to be able to do everything, when in reality its weighted so you only need to do 3/4 of it max.

They have to balance this for 40-80 thousand players, all of which are capable of different percentages of the available standing. I'm willing to let them experiment for a month or two if that means they can get it as perfect as possible.

[Silverplushie]

9 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

Just to be clear, I'm not really debating with you whether Nightwave is good or bad, I'm just pointing out that there are going to be winners and losers. It's not really fair to say "losers ignore that there are winners" without acknowledging that winners often ignore losers. 

Yes, people are complaining right now. It affects their life right now. I'm not sure why that should stop people from giving feedback right now, since that will affect how quickly we get to equilibrium (or if you're cynical, how much we can change before the system is "locked in" and/or put on the back burner).

In some sense, I agree with you (i.e. I assume DE is going to adjust the system to be accessible to most players). I'm just trying to be fair to both sides, because I think you're a little too dismissive of some "losers." 

 

By your definition, I AM a loser. I wasn't able to do the Simaris scans in time, nor was I able to kill/cap a Hydrolyst. That's on ME, I wasn't willing to weigh down other players with my inability and inexperience, so I let it go. I accept full responsibility. The issue is some people don't like having to take responsibility, so they complain on the forums and blame DE for for their own shortcomings preventing them from maxing out their standing.

The issue with a lot of the "feedback" is its people wanting the instant gratification of the old system back. They don't like having to work for what used to be nearly instant. I agree to a certain extent, but I think its for the better. People aren't waiting for DE to minmax peoples satisfaction with the new system. They're just complaining without going DE a chance to make the system perfect.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

LOL, I laughed...

Look this is how it is when it comes to any change to Warframe...It takes about two weeks on average till it calms down..but, for now feed back and opinions mixed with emotions and fear of change is going to happen...it's alright,... the forums are going to point out actual issues mixed in with some hysteria, some positives and some not so positives...Yet In the end De's own internal numbers and the fact they themselves play Warframe they are going to go through everything we are going through and making notes for adjustments...changes, nerf, buffs, tweaks...surgery...pull the transmission out..you name it...or just leave alone with duck tape and a prayer...

But, I wouldn't worry too much about your fellow Forum user's wanting to express themselves en mass ...but listen OP...you're post is pretty much another cog in the machine called the Warframe Forums..You're not the first nor will you be the last to put out the obligatory GUYS STOP COMPLAINING statement....In fact as I sit here and type..I'm happily ready tell you..that basically the forums is like a rainforest in some cases...and hearing all the frogs ribbiting away from "I HATE THIS" to " STOP COMPLAINING" has given me a sense of security in that I know this rainforest is still as healthy as it was since year 1 when it comes to anything that brings a serious change.....

Edited March 4, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Silverplushie]

6 minutes ago, Uber.Munchkin said:

I have enjoyed what I have played of the new system, from my perspective my only concern is that as my play time is pretty much restricted to Saturday & Sunday for around about 4 hours each day I don't think it will ever be possible for me to earn any of the high tier rewards from the season.  I simply won't be able to complete some of the more challenging 'weekly' challenges as I only have about 8 hours to them in.  

Also, of those 8 hours, there is no way I'm spending one of them doing a Kuva survival for an hour. *Shudders*

I really do like the idea of a 'shop' though, I've got so many things that I have been waiting to build but haven't been able to because I only ever managed to get 1 or 2 nitain a week.  Assuming I can get enough cred to buy some from the rewards so that is a welcome change.

I think that given time a data to look at DE will arrive at a nice balance for this new system and it is so much better than the old, purely RNG, one that I'll take it. 🙂

The nice thing is out only need 65%(might be 75%) of the available standing to max out the reward track. You can afford to miss a few of the elite weeklies as long as you do the other stuff.

[Silverplushie]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

LOL, I laughed...

Look this is how it is when it comes to any change to Warframe...It takes about two weeks on average till it calms down..but, for now feed back and opinions mixed with emotions and fear of change is going to happen...it's alright,... the forums are going to point out actual issues mixed in with some hysteria, some positives and some not so positives...Yet In the end De's own internal numbers and the fact they themselves play Warframe they are going to go through everything we are going through and making notes for adjustments...changes, nerf, buffs, tweaks...surgery...pull the transmission out..you name it...or just leave alone with duck tape and a prayer...

But, I wouldn't worry too much about your fellow Forum user's wanting to express themselves en mass ...but listen OP...you're post is pretty much another cog in the machine called the Warframe Forums..You're not the first nor will you be the last to put out the obligatory GUYS STOP COMPLAINING statement....In fact as I sit here and type..I'm happily ready tell you..that basically the forums is like a rainforest in some cases...and hearing all the frogs ribbiting away from "I HATE THIS" to " STOP COMPLAINING" has given me a sense of security in that I know this rainforest is still as healthy as it was since year 1 when it comes to anything that brings a serious change.....

Believe me, I'm well aware that my post will only be seen by a few people. I frankly just wanted my opinion to be seen by the ONE person that can have their mind changed for the better.

And yeah, I had a feeling that was how this community worked. Nice to hear it from someone who spends more time on here than I do. I only have 300ish hours into this game, I have a lot more to learn. It excites me, knowing how much I have to learn and experience in this game.