Warframe's First Paywall

[Knowmad762]

10 minutes ago, HexOmega111x said:

You have to see in this something wrong from DE. The reality is that you have absolutely no idea why they release this frame like that. Just speculations.

Buy her or wait. Your problem. 

I do believe that DE did something wrong with the release of this frame. You yourself said earlier that is was a "strange move". I do not believe that one should wait for a pattern of bad behavior to develop before acting: as a community, it is our responsibility to tell DE "hey, this is kind of not cool".

[Chasue]

As Xzorn said, there is always the option of buying her with the plat you earn by trading with other players. She's in your hands immediately, don't even have to wait for the crafting process to finish. Not a cent spent, perfectly bypassing the reputation requirement. Just to echo that.

I really have trouble seeing the "pre-order bonus" or "paywall". I maintain the position that they should have held off on selling her in the market before the parts are obtainable, don't get me wrong.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Chasue
clarification

[(XBOX)Skode]

When was the last time we had a simple warframe aquisition? Equinox, i miss those days - didn't even mind grinding away for the likes of Nidus and Ivara... This stuff with standing farming and a bazillion new resources to build every new frame is getting tedious. Hoping she is an easy build.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

So if she's literally impossible to earn... Why is she in the Cash Shop?

To coerce people to buy her by the sounds of it.

[HexOmega111x]

il y a 55 minutes, Knowmad762 a dit :

I do believe that DE did something wrong with the release of this frame. You yourself said earlier that is was a "strange move". I do not believe that one should wait for a pattern of bad behavior to develop before acting: as a community, it is our responsibility to tell DE "hey, this is kind of not cool".

OK, even if we are not on the same page, I can agree with that kind of argument or point of vieuw. I even like the way you express it. 

 

[SordidDreams]

7 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

Can I just point out that the most recent update is one of the first times we have seen mainline content hidden behind a platinum paywall? 

You mean beside the dozens of items locked behind dojo research? I don't see how delaying the free release of content by way of an event is any different from delaying it by way of a research timer.

Edited March 9, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Ultimatesoup]

Saying stuff like "You just need to wait" or "Buy her or wait" should make you take a step back and realise that's just a fanboy mindset, devoid of any critical thinking.

When the buying incentive crosses a line, players need to tell DE that we will not accept this. If they don't, what prevents DE from pushing this even further, since they know that their players lap up everything they're given?

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 39 minutes, SordidDreams a dit :

You mean beside the dozens of items locked behind dojo research? I don't see how delaying the free release of content by way of an event is any different from delaying it by way of a research timer.

So for you, it is the same thing to say "Hey, you can get this weapon if you donate these few components to your dojo after 3 days or you could pay for it"

and

"Hey,you can either pay for this Warframe or wait until we release its obtention for free on an unknown date" ?

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[SordidDreams]

4 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

So for you, it is the same thing to say "Hey, you can get this weapon if you donate these few components to your dojo after 3 days or you could pay for it"

and

"Hey,you can either pay for this Warframe or wait until we release its obtention for free on an unknown date" ?

For me it's the same thing to say "hey, you can get this item if you wait a few days for a research timer to tick down" and "hey, you can get this item if you wait a few days for the event to progress into the next phase". Point is, yes, DE is driving sales by making free players wait, but it's nothing new, that's how the game's worked since time immemorial.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 2 minutes, SordidDreams a dit :

For me it's the same thing to say "hey, you can get this item if you wait a few days for a research timer to tick down" and "hey, you can get this item if you wait a few days for the event to progress into the next phase". Point is, yes, DE is driving sales by making free players wait, but it's nothing new, that's how the game's worked since time immemorial.

No.

 

Since time immemorial, it was 

"Hey, you can get this Warframe by farming it on this boss or on these mobs, craft it, and get at after a few days, or you could buy it"

or

"Hey,you can do this quest that will end up giving your this Warframe that you will be able to craft and get after a few days, or you could buy it"

The instant plat buy has always been presented as an alternative, not as the main option, which is the case here.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[SordidDreams]

11 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Since time immemorial, it was 

"Hey, you can get this Warframe by farming it on this boss or on these mobs, craft it, and get at after a few days, or you could buy it"

or

"Hey,you can do this quest that will end up giving your this Warframe that you will be able to craft and get after a few days, or you could buy it"

The instant plat buy has always been presented as an alternative, not as the main option, which is the case here.

Yes, that's what I said. The game's making you wait either way, I don't see what the big deal is about the exact reason excuse for the wait. It's not like there's any research actually going on in the dojo or fabrication in the foundry, it's just an arbitrary timer to hopefully annoy you into buying the item for money.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Knowmad762]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

You mean beside the dozens of items locked behind dojo research? I don't see how delaying the free release of content by way of an event is any different from delaying it by way of a research timer.

By gathering resources and starting the dojo research timer, a player at least feels that they are making progress towards their goal, and the timer shows how long until the item is unlocked, to the minute. Right now, players can make absolutely no progress towards Hildryn at all, and there is no indication at all when progress can even commence.

There could also be some argument that by dealing with a dojo research timer is a substitute for a boss fight/rng mechanic, because once completed, the finished blueprint is immediately available for only credits. Once the waiting for Hildryn is over, players will still have to deal with a (likely multi stage) boss fight, plus rng drops, making it the worst of both worlds.

[SordidDreams]

48 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

Right now, players can make absolutely no progress towards Hildryn at all, and there is no indication at all when progress can even commence. 

That's not quite true. It's locked behind a community event, and there are percentages in your navigation.

48 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

There could also be some argument that by dealing with a dojo research timer is a substitute for a boss fight/rng mechanic, because once completed, the finished blueprint is immediately available for only credits. Once the waiting for Hildryn is over, players will still have to deal with a (likely multi stage) boss fight, plus rng drops, making it the worst of both worlds.

True, but the counter-point to that is frames like Equinox, Harrow, Inaros, Nidus, etc., who are far more tedious and annoying to acquire than those who simply drop from bosses. Making the acquisition of a new frame a gigantic PITA to drive sales is nothing new for DE. Hildryn might arguably be taking it a step further, depending on just how long this event is going to make us wait for her, but it's not the first step down this path, not by a long shot. We're deep into the woods already.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 27 minutes, SordidDreams a dit :

That's not quite true. It's locked behind a community event, and there are percentages in your navigation.

A probably scripted community event, just like I don't know how many others.

il y a 27 minutes, SordidDreams a dit :

True, but the counter-point to that is frames like Equinox, Harrow, Inaros, Nidus, etc., who are far more tedious and annoying to acquire than those who simply drop from bosses. Making the acquisition of a new frame a gigantic PITA to drive sales is nothing new for DE. Hildryn might arguably be taking it a step further, depending on just how long this event is going to make us wait for her, but it's not the first step down this path, not by a long shot. We're deep into the woods already.

As tedious as they were, you could start the progress toward their obtention the day of their release.


A paywall means that there is no way to obtain an item without spending real money in the game. Platinum is obtainable by trade in the game, but there no doubt that Hildryn is a direction toward paywalling, as it is the first Platinum-exclusive Warframe.

As you say, this is not the first step down the path, but this is the first big step down the path.

As a reminder, DE mocks companies that use paywalls, yet they are going toward them now.

Edit : Actually, It is a paywall weither or not platinum is obtainable. Obtaining the "pay" to pass the "wall" is not concerned by the ways you obtain the pay.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Mad5cout]

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

So if she's literally impossible to earn... Why is she in the Cash Shop? If fair's fair, why not hold off on releasing her for real money until she's actually earnable in-game?

This is the appropriate solution.

[Mad5cout]

All of you people equating the current situation with simple grind mechanisms are missing the point.  This is not the same as simply paying to rush a frame build.  The BP and parts are literally not earnable through in-game grinding but available for plat.  I took a hiatus but have been playing this game since near the beginning and this is the first time I can recall this type of money scheme being used.  This is different. Stop with the false equivocations.

[SteveCutler]

And, coincidentally, there is an affinity boost weekend right now. Players who purchased Hildryn for platinum can rank her up with this boost, while players waiting to get Hildryn the normal way will miss out on the affinity boost.

[SordidDreams]

22 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

As you say, this is not the first step down the path, but this is the first big step down the path.

As a reminder, DE mocks companies that use paywalls, yet they are going toward them now.

I guess that depends on your definition of "big". Doesn't seem any worse to me than the others.

Yeah, well, nothing lasts forever. Nor will this event, incidentally. If you think people are complaining now, just wait until it turns out the boss can't be fought outside of this event, and the event repeats about as often as Plague Star.

[Aila]

10 hours ago, markus230 said:

I might be wrong here. But wasn't the same thing done with Valkyr? She was introduced along the event to cleanse Jupiter of infestation I think, and before we got rid of J3-Golem there was no Alad V boss fight.

Nope, Valkyr was introduced alongside with Alad V, was farmed her parts on first day. J3-golem was just a boss, which we farmed for neural sensors, alad just replaced him.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

Releasing a frame that can not be earned in-game is a really bad decision on DE's part. However, this is not technically a paywall. It's more like a pay-soon-to-be-demolished-wall...Furthermore, there's no content locked behind Hildryn, except play Hildryn that is...and you can also earn plat without money...so yeah, S#&$ty move indeed, but not nearly as scammy as the paywall that other company put out...

It's important to call out bad moves like this, but it's also important not to exaggerate issue for drama effect.

[Kontrollo]

11 hours ago, Knowmad762 said:

Then they release Hildryn, who is, for all intents and purposes, a pre-order bonus.

😄

Ok guys, that's a wrap. Today's two minute hate is over, back to work.

[Jack-a-Lopium]

Have patience grasshopper? 

If you wait a couple weeks/months then she'll be released as part of free content.  Running an MMO is a very expensive business, if they ask for money in some way then they are trying to pay for this excellent game which they run for us.  Rather than be so negative (I won't use the word 'entitled', tho it may be apt), just think of people buying the Hildryn frame, or paying for any other part of the game, as people who are paying to keep your game running.

Also: Even tho I myself open my wallet from time to time, there are people in my clan who have never deposited a single cent and have several hundred or even thousand plat to their names.  WF is so generous in it's nature that plat can be earned fairly easily, even for nothing.  Just enjoy this 'free' game, and if you can't or don't want to make a contribution, then don't.  As several people have stated above me... WF works on a 'pay to not wait' basis.

[Katinka]

19 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

Can I just point out that the most recent update is one of the first times we have seen mainline content hidden behind a platinum paywall?  It is currently not possible to unlock Hildryn without paying platinum, creating a delayed release profit-making scheme that, to my knowledge, has not happened yet in Warframe.

17th May 2013, Vauban release, was purchaseable instantly or you could wait for 3 alerts with no idea when they'd turn up and if they'd be at a convenient time of day for you and no way to aid progress through your own actions.

[Mad5cout]

Katinka, that is probably the most valid parallel, but it was still technically available to non-paying players.  If you DL the app, it sends you a push when certain alerts come up making it easier to acquire things like this.  And suffice it to say, people weren't really pleased with that mechanism and still aren't.  Whereas here I have heard no one even mentioning the paywall component of this release.

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

Katinka, that is probably the most valid parallel, but it was still technically available to non-paying players.  If you DL the app, it sends you a push when certain alerts come up making it easier to acquire things like this.  And suffice it to say, people weren't really pleased with that mechanism and still aren't.  Whereas here I have heard no one even mentioning the paywall component of this release.

Look, I was willing to acknowledge that there's a bit of problem earlier because I don't like waiting this much, either.

But really? How is this different from having to wait on a Dojo research, for example? Others have mentioned Valkyr and Vauban.

Also, you're wrong in that you can't work towards it. Since it's a global event, you can make yourself some alt accounts, then go scan those data thingies. The rest of us thank you in advance.