Nora, copying a famous movie character isn't good

[DatDarkOne]

10 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Warframe is a rip-off of Neon Genesis Evangelion. I'm not even joking.

Apparently you've never seen Guyver or played Ninja Gaiden.  Warframe has way more in common with those I mentioned than it does with NGE.   Just saying.  😄  

[birdobash]

My main question is, can this be considered illegal and infringement of copyright? Copyright laws ARE very complicated when addressing references between video games and any other older type of media since video games have relatively newer laws that aren't always completely fleshed out.

As the Warriors movie seems to have come out around 2000, it isn't old enough to go under fair use due to age (when something is old enough, say 100 years later, and the owner of the copyright dies and they don't pass the copyright ownership on, it becomes fair use for everybody, like the scream art piece for example). Then the matter is now if Nora Night as a character is considered "transformative" enough compared to the original radio DJ from warriors to be considered a seperate entity in the eyes of the law. Here's where things can get really dumb, there was a political art of Obama in red and blue with the word "HOPE" on it, and even though it was physically drawn ART, the artist based it off a random photograph that someone had taken of Obama. According to the court, even though the art was drawn creatively, colored creatively, and had a message to it, it was STILL not considered transformative in the eyes of the law, and therefore the artist was sued over a piece of art by the photographer who took the picture of Obama that the art was based off of.

Looking at this second point, it looks VERY likely that Nora Night could actually be considered ILLEGAL, since she has even LESS of a difference between the above example and the original. She is literally a south African sassy radio host and DJ who's camera angle only shows her lower face from the side, who reports important events in the solar system, meanwhile the warrior DJ is a south African sassy radio host and DJ who's camera angle only shows her lower face from the side, who reports important events in the city.

Do you see the problem yet?? Now I'm not a lawyer or a judge or anything, yet even if Nora Night ISN'T illegal, it could well be right on the line of BEING illegal.

Even IF Nora Night is intended to be an homage to warriors radio DJ, unless it is explicitedly stated by DE publicly and OBVIOUS, it is still illegal. You can't go around selling fake pokemon shirts on Ebay using the pokemon brand as publicity, then when Nintendo tries to sue you, your excuse is that it's an "homage" to pokemon, that's just not how that works.

Edited April 1, 2019 by birdobash

[Gamma745]

13 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Warframe is a rip-off of Neon Genesis Evangelion. I'm not even joking.

 

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Apparently you've never seen Guyver or played Ninja Gaiden.  Warframe has way more in common with those I mentioned than it does with NGE.   Just saying.  😄  

I have to agree with @DatDarkOne. I don't even know much on Guyver or Ninja Gaiden, but I still more inclined to believe him.

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, birdobash said:

My main question is, can this be considered illegal and infringement of copyright? Copyright laws ARE very complicated when addressing references between video games and any other older type of media since video games have relatively newer laws that aren't always completely fleshed out.

I will use your own statement as an example of how it's not infringing on copyright.

19 minutes ago, birdobash said:

She is literally a south African sassy radio host and DJ who's camera angle only shows her lower face from the side

That description alone while accurate is extremely broad in what it describes.  Meaning it describes quite a few people both real and fictional. 

19 minutes ago, birdobash said:

As the Warriors movie seems to have come out around 2000

The Warriors movie was originally released in 1979.  😄

11 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

 

I have to agree with @DatDarkOne. I don't even know much on Guyver or Ninja Gaiden, but I still more inclined to believe him.

To help you a bit. 

Quote

 

Bio-Booster Armor Guyver or Guyver  is a manga series written and illustrated by Yoshiki Takaya. The Guyver itself is a symbiotic techno-organic (or biomechanical) device that enhances the capabilities of its host. 

A test type Zoanoid escapes from the Cronos Corporation with three Guyver Units. Cronos soldiers attempt to recover the units from the test type, but are thwarted when the test type detonates a bomb that he has concealed in his bag. The Guyver Units are scattered in the blast. One of the lost Guyver Units, known as "Unit I", lands near two young high school students, Shō Fukamachi and Tetsurō Segawa. The second one is retrieved by Cronos and merges with Oswald A. Lisker to become the second Guyver later on. The final unit falls into the hands of Agito Makishima, who merges with it at an unspecified time. Shō accidentally activates the unit which then painfully merges with him.

Over time, Shō learns more about the Guyver and its abilities. The Guyver is virtually invulnerable, with its only weak point being the Control Metal. With this part intact, it can rebuild the host from their data it stores within, but if this part is critically damaged, however, the host will be eaten alive by the unit and perish. This is disconcerting and Shō starts to question whether he will ever be free from the Guyver. The situation gets worse with the fact that Cronos is continuously sending more and more powerful Zoanoids to retrieve the Guyver. This makes it increasingly difficult for Shō to protect his vulnerable friends.

As the story progresses it also takes a startling turn, in which Cronos succeeds in taking over the world and reshaping it according to its ideals. The Guyvers are then labeled to the public as a "vanguard of alien invaders".

 

Ninja Gaiden is a game that has main character who is the Arch-type of the Action Ninja.  The game series are still considered to be some of the most difficult games out. IMO even more so than Dark Souls series.  

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[birdobash]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Apparently you've never seen Guyver or played Ninja Gaiden.  Warframe has way more in common with those I mentioned than it does with NGE.   Just saying.  😄  

Thing about this is though, it's not illegal to have thematically similar or same ideas or things. It isn't illegal to make a game about robot war suits fighting in space, because it's too broad. As long as the mechanics, specific settings, specific characters, and story are mostly unique, it's not illegal.

Nora Night on the other hand, COULD be illegal, as her character is ripped almost straight from warriors, the only difference is the voice actor and the context and content of her lines, literally every other aspect of her is exactly the same as where she originates from. In the eyes of the law, she would probably not be considered transformative and therefore would be legible for copyright claims. 

[birdobash]

26 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I will use your own statement as an example of how it's not infringing on copyright.

That description alone while accurate is extremely broad in what it describes.  Meaning it describes quite a few people both real and fictional. 

The Warriors movie was originally released in 1979.  😄

The fact is, copyright laws are extremely sporadic in what's considered right or wrong. If somebody were to pass off a genius billionaire white man who wears a bat costume at night and uses bat themed gadgets as their own idea, they would 100% get sued by DC comics over batman. What makes THIS illegal, but not a mysterious south African radio host who only shows off her lips and wears bright red lipstick with the exact same camera angle, and reports current news semi-criminally related? When their has been an existing character who does exactly the same things in a different franchise? In the batman example, I could change the costume, I could rename the gadgets, I could change the bat symbol, I could change his race, and it would STILL be considered illegal. One of the biggest things about copyright laws is also publicity and iconic symbols, nobody picked up on Nora Night literally being the warrior DJ until about now, because it doesn't have much publicity, someone passing off their bat-human comic as their own would immediately get sued, because of publicity. Even if a superhero were to be created as one who has a bat as their symbol but doesn't have a super power could potentially be sued for, because Bruce Wayne being completely human and the bat symbol combined are too powerful of symbols that anything remotely similar could be considered copying.

 

I also didnt realize warriors was released in 1979, woopsies :p. I'm not old enough to have been aware of it when it came out, let alone even realize the movie existed. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by birdobash

[Gamma745]

18 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

Quote

 

Bio-Booster Armor Guyver or Guyver  is a manga series written and illustrated by Yoshiki Takaya. The Guyver itself is a symbiotic techno-organic (or biomechanical) device that enhances the capabilities of its host. 

A test type Zoanoid escapes from the Cronos Corporation with three Guyver Units. Cronos soldiers attempt to recover the units from the test type, but are thwarted when the test type detonates a bomb that he has concealed in his bag. The Guyver Units are scattered in the blast. One of the lost Guyver Units, known as "Unit I", lands near two young high school students, Shō Fukamachi and Tetsurō Segawa. The second one is retrieved by Cronos and merges with Oswald A. Lisker to become the second Guyver later on. The final unit falls into the hands of Agito Makishima, who merges with it at an unspecified time. Shō accidentally activates the unit which then painfully merges with him.

Over time, Shō learns more about the Guyver and its abilities. The Guyver is virtually invulnerable, with its only weak point being the Control Metal. With this part intact, it can rebuild the host from their data it stores within, but if this part is critically damaged, however, the host will be eaten alive by the unit and perish. This is disconcerting and Shō starts to question whether he will ever be free from the Guyver. The situation gets worse with the fact that Cronos is continuously sending more and more powerful Zoanoids to retrieve the Guyver. This makes it increasingly difficult for Shō to protect his vulnerable friends.

As the story progresses it also takes a startling turn, in which Cronos succeeds in taking over the world and reshaping it according to its ideals. The Guyvers are then labeled to the public as a "vanguard of alien invaders".

 

 

Thanks for that. I can see some remarkable difference story-wise, but I can see why you would see it kind of similar.

 

20 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Ninja Gaiden is a game that has main character who is the Arch-type of the Action Ninja.  The game series are still considered to be some of the most difficult games out. IMO even more so than Dark Souls series.  

The gameplay does look kind of similar to Warframe. Or at least what DE wanted it to become, if the Warframe promo videos are any indications. Though I kinda take the "Ninja" aspect of Warframe with a lot of salt.

[NezuHimeSama]

I don't really see the problem. It's a cute reference that could potentially make for an interesting character. It's also not the first time for warframe, much less for games in general.

Most great classic games rip something off hardcore. Donkey Kong, King King? Metroid series makes lots of references to various sci-fi, incl Aliens and Predator series. Zelda heavily references various Fantasy material, such as Tolkein-esque elf hylians. Star Ocean is clearly and heavily inspired by things like Darkover.

[birdobash]

8 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

I don't really see the problem. It's a cute reference that could potentially make for an interesting character. It's also not the first time for warframe, much less for games in general.

Most great classic games rip something off hardcore. Donkey Kong, King King? Metroid series makes lots of references to various sci-fi, incl Aliens and Predator series. Zelda heavily references various Fantasy material, such as Tolkein-esque elf hylians. Star Ocean is clearly and heavily inspired by things like Darkover.

Problem is here again, even if they're heavily inspired by previously iterated ideas, they're still their own GAMES in their own right and have their own unique identities.

Nora Night, on the other hand is a single iconic character, based off an almost exactly same single iconic character from a completely seperate franchise. 

Nora Night is LITERALLY akin to copy and pasting Mario straight into Warframe as a new important character and just changing his voice actor and changing his name to Jeseppi, 100% illegal and frankly hilarious but stupid. The only difference is that mario is too iconic and well known to be ignored, while the warriors radio host is kind of lost to time a bit and not as well known.

Edited April 1, 2019 by birdobash

[NezuHimeSama]

Nora Night is a single character in a game with it's own identity.

You can easily point to various characters in other games and say "they're just knockoffs of this", but then you look at the game as a whole and it's not a knockoff. Since Nora is just a pair of lips, I don't think there's any legal grounds. Also, if you did copy Mario into WF, called him Jeseppi, changed his overalls and hat a bit, there's no grounds for a lawsuit there either. Nintendo can't copyright fat italian plumbers.

[Gamma745]

3 minutes ago, birdobash said:

Problem is here again, even if they're heavily inspired by previously iterated ideas, they're still their own GAMES in their own right and have their own unique identities.

Nora Night, on the other hand is a single iconic character, based off an almost exactly same single iconic character from a completely seperate franchise. 

Nora Night is LITERALLY akin to copy and pasting Mario straight into Warframe as a new important character and just changing his voice actor and changing his name to Jeseppi, 100% illegal and frankly hilarious but stupid. The only difference is that mario is too iconic and well known to be ignored, while the warriors radio host is kind of lost to time a bit and not as well known.

If that's the case, DE is already ground to be sued from the Wyrmius minigame. I don't see anyone having problem with that part.

[DatDarkOne]

21 minutes ago, birdobash said:

In the batman example, I could change the costume, I could rename the gadgets, I could change the bat symbol, I could change his race, and it would STILL be considered illegal.

This has been done already without infringing on copyright.  Just look at Black Panther and Tony Stark/Iron Man. There are other examples of how similar things have been done without breaking copyright.  

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Thanks for that. I can see some remarkable difference story-wise, but I can see why you would see it kind of similar.

If you were to ever watch the anime, you would see all the similarities.  Mostly in the Guyver armor itself, how it fights/behaves, and that the host is also a teen.  hehe.  Then again, DE did admit that both the Guyver and Ninja Gaiden inspired them in the creation of Warframe. 😄

[Gamma745]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

If you were to ever watch the anime, you would see all the similarities.  Mostly in the Guyver armor itself, how it fights/behaves, and that the host is also a teen.  hehe.

Maybe I'll try to see it. But just a nitpick, Warframe host is an adult, the pilot is a teen (or pre-teen, judging from the body size).

[NezuHimeSama]

38 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Maybe I'll try to see it. But just a nitpick, Warframe host is an adult, the pilot is a teen (or pre-teen, judging from the body size).

The pilot of the Guyver is also the host in this case, but in the case of Warframes, the "host" isn't really the host, but the base/model used for the clones. In that sense, the Operator is functionally closer to the host.

Also, geeze I haven't seen Guyver in ages. But, another example of it(which I think was a Guyver knockoff?) is Genocyber. There's no doubt a dozen other clones of the concept around, too.

 

I think the main takeaway, though, is that plenty of things are copied from plenty of other things, and there's nothing really distinct enough about Nora or the DJ.

Edited April 1, 2019 by NezuHimeSama

[Gamma745]

1 minute ago, NezuHimeSama said:

The pilot of the Guyver is also the host in this case, but in the case of Warframes, the "host" isn't really the host, but the base/model used for the clones. In that sense, the Operator is functionally closer to the host.

Also, geeze I haven't seen Guyver in ages.

I was under the impression that the host is the one physically bonded with the symbiote/parasite, not necessarily the one in control. I've read about some real-life parasites where the host lost control of it's own body and the parasite is the one assuming control.

[NezuHimeSama]

Yeah, but in the case of Warframes, no such host exist; they're genetic copies made from technocyte, like infestation. In one of the scan lores Simmaris has, you hear about a healer that gets infested, but when they go to find her, she's actually now a dozen ancient healers.

Similarly, a base is used to make the Warframe via infection, and then the infected result is scanned, turned into blueprints, and then manufactured.

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

I was under the impression that the host is the one physically bonded with the symbiote/parasite, not necessarily the one in control. I've read about some real-life parasites where the host lost control of it's own body and the parasite is the one assuming control.

With the Guyver, the pilot is both the host and in control in most cases.  Should the host lose consciousness, the Guyver (Techno-organic parasite) assumes control as a defensive measure to protect both.  Sounds just like a certain cutscene in WF doesn't it. 😄  

So far Warframe gives a very good idea of what it would be like if Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden) was given a Guyver unit and put in the far future.  In other words,  AWESOMENESS!!!!

 

As said by Gara the ninja in the Bastard anime, "You get to see some pretty interesting Sh$#$ if you say alive long enough."  

Edited April 1, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[D1sTrust]

15 hours ago, llamabrown said:

My writing coach once told me "nothing is new, everything has been done before. So if you are patting yourself on the back for creating something unique, stop because I can probably find someone who published something just like it before you."

True, I think "creativity" is in huge parts to take existing things and putting them in a new context.
From that point of view, taking a character archetype from a 70ties gang movie and transfering it into an already crazy scifi game is quite creative imo.

Looking at something scifi and then just doing the same thing/design would be unoriginal, but I don`t see that here at all.

[Gamma745]

24 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Yeah, but in the case of Warframes, no such host exist; they're genetic copies made from technocyte, like infestation. In one of the scan lores Simmaris has, you hear about a healer that gets infested, but when they go to find her, she's actually now a dozen ancient healers.

Similarly, a base is used to make the Warframe via infection, and then the infected result is scanned, turned into blueprints, and then manufactured.

 

12 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

With the Guyver, the pilot is both the host and in control in most cases.  Should the host lose consciousness, the Guyver (Techno-organic parasite) assumes control as a defensive measure to protect both.  Sounds just like a certain cutscene in WF doesn't it. 😄  

This just further means that Guyver and Warframe is both similar and different in their own good way.😀

Enough of that. I'm going to watch the first episode to see the awesomeness with my own two eyes.

[SordidDreams]

21 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Apparently you've never seen Guyver or played Ninja Gaiden.  Warframe has way more in common with those I mentioned than it does with NGE.   Just saying.  😄  

Alright, let me elaborate:

Humanoid combat robots that turn out to be organic on the inside, indeed human on the inside. Piloted by angsty teenagers with parental abandonment issues through a connection that is partly technological and partly telepathic. They are able to control these 'robots' because they are able to connect with and be accepted by the soul of a person that is inside the 'robot'. The 'robots' can occasionally act on their own, such as when the pilot is in danger, and can go berserk. The teenagers are guided on their missions by a sexy surrogate mother figure, with the aid of a computer that is also created out of a person. One of the antagonists is an abusive father figure.

Warframe is Evangelion.

Edited April 1, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Hobie-wan]

@birdobash

Just stop. The angle of the face talking into a mic, a red background, and the fact she is African American playing a sassy DJ are the things they incorporated into the homage. None of these things are unique enough to copyright. She doesn't say any lines that are like the ones from the movie.

Aside from all this nonsense, the net effect is that more people are talking about the movie and it has probably led to a few sales and watches on Netflix and such. People that had never heard of the movie are now aware of it and others might go back and watch it again.

[random__noob]

Yep, thats a solid 100% ripoff. If your task wouldnt have been "Design a radio host and make it a cool one" I would have believed Hommage, but you may sell it as Hommage to your boss. To me, its just ripping off the design as a whole.

 

I actually always believed she was ripping off Ursula Rucker. Search on youtube for "Ursula Rucker - Release your Heart" for reference.

[RistN]

lol I  thought  it sounded  familiar. Well ,I  gues they thought it's  2019 and non of it's  playerbase watched The Warriors. 

gg  @MewmewGirl

[RistN]

22 hours ago, birdobash said:

As the Warriors movie seems to have come out around 2000, it isn't old enough to go under fair use due to age (when something is old enough, say 100 years later,

2000?the movie is from 1979 man. XD 

And btw the actress that played Nora.... I mean D. J . is deceased.