A Veteran and Business Analyst's Report on the State of Warframe.

[Sloan441]

Random internet guy posts some statements and opinions.

These are worth exactly what you all paid for them. 

Someone may as well just repost the Warframe bingo card and we can call it a day. 

[bibmobello]

I have another thesys.

This game is wonderful, everyone says it's wonderful.

This game is awful. 3 people laughing, post deleted.

[NightmareT12]

9 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

but taking criticism, advice and suggestions? Not so much. Even when asked for, DE has a perception of not listening at all. A well earned one in my opinion. 

On my own experience I have made suggestions (and very specific ones) that have made it to the game for years after some time. I have also seen other people's posts become realized at some point. Can it improve? Yes. Do I think it needs to improve? Yes! Does that mean things are how it's presented here? Not by a long shot.

9 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

One of the major problems with Warframe’s Fashion, is frankly, it only really comes in Four Flavours. Strange Tenno, Strange and Shiny Orokin, Bulbous Grineer and the rare piece of Sleek Corpus, but there’s nothing normal. Nothing out of the expected norms, nothing Normal, it’s just ABC or D, with the rarity of say Limbo Deluxe.

Warframe's aesthetic is strong and unique precisely because it's super respectful with its own guidelines. It's what called me in back in 2013 and anyone that has read me in the Forums regarding art issuess will know it's some of the most important aspects of the game for me.

Changing this would just be an absolute mistake. There's many games out there where aesthetics are more "normal". Warframe doesn't need "normal".

Regarding capes and scarves, we can't get "normal" capes and scarves because it'd be an absolute nightmare to fit on all frames. Have you even seen Uru Syandana on Rhino, Frost or others? Imagine a "normal" thing, which is even more enclosed.

9 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

The problem with the Devstream approach that is currently in the game is we can’t be sure we’ll ever see the content that is Shown Off and Hyped Up.

Melee 3.0 has been in the works for Easily over a Year since first Showcase, and what we got was lackluster and sad.

Zephyr and Titania Deluxe, a lot of people were excited for that, and it’s been seemingly forgotten.

Titania Deluxe was shown in Tennocon alongside Nyx and we just got that. Zephyr was a personal project of Kary Black, and he's simply been busy converting materials to PBR (hey, remember what you stated earlier on fixing old?).

I'm not even going to enter into the animation stuff because they themselves have stated how complicated it is to program certain custom animations and then make them onto other Warframes. And in fact, if you've ever played around swapping movesets in a fighting game, you will know the absolute horror that can come out of it.

Honestly, I don't really know what to say. The game has obvious issues, but they're not the ones listed here.

Edited May 29, 2019 by NightmareT12

[DevonRayMun]

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

DE puts way too much emphasis on NEW rather than fixing and working on what we already have, and honestly, in my opinion, most recent content just exists to be New.

A lot of the things you stated below seems to be specific examples of how DE is rushing on new contents and not looking back. I DO agree DE tends to forget things that they have put out and just leave them behind instead of improving or fixing them.

But I have to say a lot of the examples you give may not be common problems among players or at least some other people and I do not agree. Here I would just give some examples.

10 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

Resource Distribution in Warframe is honestly horrific. Orokin Cells, Neural Sensors and Control Modules are simply Unavailable to the majority of New Players, locking them out of a huge portion of the game until they access the Mid-Game Planets that hold them. Beforehand, they either have to get lucky in Quests or beg for someone to “taxi” them somewhere to get them or they can’t progress properly.

As far as I can tell, this is not a big problem among the players, especially new layers (that I played with). New players need time to get familiar with how Warframe works, and during this period of time, I don't think they actually need that much unique resources to build their weapons or frames, since they are usually lacking the proper mods to make them strong enough. 

 

10 hours ago, Sicarius_Avindar said:

One of the major problems with Warframe’s Fashion, is frankly, it only really comes in Four Flavours. Strange Tenno, Strange and Shiny Orokin, Bulbous Grineer and the rare piece of Sleek Corpus, but there’s nothing normal. Nothing out of the expected norms, nothing Normal, it’s just ABC or D, with the rarity of say Limbo Deluxe.

 

What's wrong with the ABCD flavors that you have listed? I am completely fine with the art style since it fits into the lore. And besides fashion preference is subjective to a certain degree, so you not enjoying the looks doesn't mean others don't. And also, you say nothing's normal, but aren't the ABCD art styles normal in the Warframe universe? 

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with a lot of things you pointed out, but your post is making me feel like you are only complaining instead of trying to give useful feedback. A lot of the things you have stated, like the trade market, new resources and basic game mechanics may need their dedicated posts to give feedbacks. 

I do hope someone can take a specific topic out of your report and create a dedicated post about it.

[5p33dy_01]

2 hours ago, Keylan118 said:

I disagree with the whole 'the game is the grind' idea. The game isn't about the grind, it's about the rewards at the end of the grind (and the gameplay). Grind can easily be ridiculously stupid and long (look at the drop chance for Nitain from Wolf). I also have no problem with frames that are 'afk farms' (but DE doesn't want that, so I guess it's a valid complaint). If you want to avoid leeches, recruit a squad. If you want to avoid people rushing things and breezing through content like it's Valentine's and they forgot gifts for their lover, recruit a squad. Public is fine the way it is, and I have no problem carrying leeches if I enter a public match. I'm not here so I can play the same defense mission for the six-hundredth time only to not get the reward I wanted again. I'm here to get that reward, finish my build, and play my frame the way I want to play it.

you say you disagree and then make a statement based on it being a grind
( Grinding refers to the playing time spent doing repetitive tasks within a game to unlock a particular game item or to build the experience needed to progress smoothly through the game. Grinding most commonly involves killing the same set of opponents over and over in order to gain experience points or gold.)

this game IS all about repetitive tasks (GRIND)... Farm and Grind are the same thing.

most of the time i dont mind leeches either, but when it comes to bounties and people going fishing or mining right after accepting bounties. That is a problem

i now use Hildryn in pretty much every mission, just to account for anyone being a leech
Good tank, Good aoe ulti, Great damage with 1, if you have problems with your weapons doing damage (which also allows me to upgrade all my weapons and STILL contribute to ANY mission).

[DeadVoid118]

1 hour ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

you say you disagree and then make a statement based on it being a grind
( Grinding refers to the playing time spent doing repetitive tasks within a game to unlock a particular game item or to build the experience needed to progress smoothly through the game. Grinding most commonly involves killing the same set of opponents over and over in order to gain experience points or gold.)

this game IS all about repetitive tasks (GRIND)... Farm and Grind are the same thing.

Not at all. As I said, it's more about the reward than the grind. As I stated, I don't want to repeatedly do things over and over. I'm not here to grind, grind is just a means to an end.

[Buttaface]

Agree with some of the points in the OP. Disagree with more. No indicia of anything resembling "professional business analysis" anywhere in there though, so no idea why that was brought up.

[Sohaya-]

5 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

On my own experience I have made suggestions (and very specific ones) that have made it to the game for years after some time. I have also seen other people's posts become realized at some point. Can it improve? Yes. Do I think it needs to improve? Yes! Does that mean things are how it's presented here? Not by a long shot.

Honestly, you were one of the lucky ones. Most of our feedback seems to be just ignored, speaking from personal experience.

[Sohaya-]

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

Agree with some of the points in the OP. Disagree with more. No indicia of anything resembling "professional business analysis" anywhere in there though, so no idea why that was brought up.

Yeah, about that... I helped out with the post, and I asked him to focus more on the gameplay aspects, so it's kind of my fault.

[ikkabotz]

As a full time bodhisattva...honestly, I appreciate your level of effort— but so much of not only what you said, but the forums in general just rehash the same subjects that have been brought up over and over again. 

The humble brag doesn't really suit a stronger case to convince an audience, then you proceed to compliment your ability to offer solutions while doing nothing like that here. 

What you've said, if not observant offers little to enlightening the forum dialogue to many of those who are already aware of these issues. And really that isn't on you. It's on development. These type of issues have been discussed at length. I feel we are beyond problem identification here as an audience and a large part of the onus lies on development to hash out a response if they really care to do it. 

One more way to put it. The ball is not in our court to change things. It's on the development registry, they see it, they know it. It's really their call. I and feel like we all know where hands are being sat on and probably even know why nothing is changing. It's a stale mate, or more realistically if put bluntly. Development has no sense of priority to address the larger issues to grooming their backlog of user requests because it's just that— it's not a priority.  

I really doubt Warframe will see commitments to a lot of these things. There's no evidence to support a willingness really suggestive to changes outside the successful business model in place. Historically they haven't made shifts leaning anywhere near these complaints to improving them. A successful business model has been pursued at length for several years now and they continue to create growth. If I had a crystal ball, I see this game continuing down a very similar critical path it's on now on until its peaking and waning all together. They'll sell frames, prime access, offer easier entry behind their time counters and grind wall with platinum. Most everything developed has to do with enhancing their existing model, not deconstructing it for a type of maintenance or rediscovery to 'issues'.

This is what Warframe is, we're beyond criticism, it's apt to be observed for the commitments directing the game. There is no flexibility around certain aspects to the foundation that many have presented dilemmas in with the quality of their experience. Is it immunity to criticism on the developments part? No. It's something more transparent than that. It's not important to the agenda driving the game, to their commitment driving their business model. Ultimately, this is a gaming business and so far a successful one despite it's weaknesses. They are driving numbers in profits and players. Don't expect a lot of radical adjustment. Ever notice how most all aspects of the game needing improvement to QOL standards are requested after acquisition and application of most the things in the game? In other words, the game dies after the grind of acquisition. You've potentially peaked at your level of investment financially at this point too. Is it coincidence or by design that the games development around features after you've already invested are surprisingly shapeless and vacant through the historical footprint of development? Is it coincidence aspects of "acquiring plat" through the game as aggressively in the past are removed from the game? 

This game has a some primary objectives, one of them is to make money. As tired as the saying is, follow the money and you'll follow the story. Warframe is really no different. It's a great game, but where it falls off is very transparent in the ways of how things are driven.     

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by ikkabotz

[Sohaya-]

 

 

 

2

59 minutes ago, ikkabotz said:

As a full time bodhisattva...honestly, I appreciate your level of effort— but so much of not only what you said, but the forums in general just rehash the same subjects that have been brought up over and over again. 

 The humble brag doesn't really suit a stronger case to convince an audience, then you proceed to compliment your ability to offer solutions while doing nothing like that here. 

What you've said, if not observant offers little to enlightening the forum dialogue to those who are already aware of the issues mentioned. These type of issues have been discussed at length. I feel we are beyond problem identification here as an audience and a large part of the onus lies on development to hash out a response if they really care to do it. 

 One more way to put it. The ball is not in our court to change things. It's on the development registry, they see it, they know it. It's really their call. I and feel like we all know where hands are being sat on and probably even know why nothing is changing. It's a stale mate.

I really doubt Warframe will see commitments to a lot of these things. There's no evidence to support a willingness something as really suggestive to changes outside the successful business model. That business model has been pursued at length for several years now and they continue to create growth. If I had a crystal ball, I see this game continuing down a very similar critical path it's on now on until its death. 

Well if nobody's gonna do anything about it the devs ain't gonna see it either.

[Sohaya-]

9 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Claiming to be a professional, yet basing opinions on incomplete information and passing off your opinion as something more than it is.

You could just leave and not throw a match on your professional credibility.

Opinions still matter. As for the incomplete info part I'd like to see you elaborate on that.

 

9 hours ago, peterc3 said:

You could just leave and not throw a match on your professional credibility.

Personal attack. 

[Sohaya-]

8 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Random internet guy posts some statements and opinions.

These are worth exactly what you all paid for them. 

Someone may as well just repost the Warframe bingo card and we can call it a day. 

Just goes to show that they don't listen even though the problems are blatantly laid out in front of them.

[Sohaya-]

15 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

1) no real group finder feature
2) constant crashes from host migrations
3) joining games that lag because the host has a bad connection

Group finders are needed, yeah.

Host migration integrity, on the other hand, is not so simply fixed. Unless they go and remove host migrating altogether by hosting games on their own servers (which would use up too much of their precious $$$) there's always going to be a risk of losing rewards.

As for the lag, there's an option to limit the ping of the matches you join. If you can't stand lag you can set that to 50ms or something and you'll find virtually no lag.

[Tellakey]

Gee... quite a few Tenno are triggered by that "I'm an analyst" preface.

[Sohaya-]

Yeah should have asked him to leave that out

[5p33dy_01]

8 hours ago, Keylan118 said:

Not at all. As I said, it's more about the reward than the grind. As I stated, I don't want to repeatedly do things over and over. I'm not here to grind, grind is just a means to an end.

so in essence, you do in fact agree that it is all about the grind, BUT you would RATHER not grind.
you cant say something is not and is the same thing, in the same sentence.
e.g saying its not a grind but then going on to say how you dont like the grind. (maybe just because you feel like you want to say something)

that is bad language, also contradictory and creates confusion.
no offense, its better if you just dont say anything, than put yourself in this kind of situation.
you just lose all credibility, and make yourself look like you just want to talk for the sake of talking.

4 hours ago, RWBY-WhiteRose said:

Group finders are needed, yeah.

Host migration integrity, on the other hand, is not so simply fixed. Unless they go and remove host migrating altogether by hosting games on their own servers (which would use up too much of their precious $$$) there's always going to be a risk of losing rewards.

As for the lag, there's an option to limit the ping of the matches you join. If you can't stand lag you can set that to 50ms or something and you'll find virtually no lag.

its also not as hard as you make it out to be either.
the integrity is one thing, but not receiving your rewards due to a problem that is not your fault, that's the part that makes it more unacceptable.

there is ways to resolve the issue to an extent.

when you lose connection, you are still given the end of mission report, as if you abandoned.
they could make it so, if the "connection to host lost" message is executed after host migration, trigger extraction rewards.
this is done by buffering rewards on client machines individually, so they dont need to spend any $$$ on servers.

the game logs your rewards the whole time.

this might not be as good as them setting up their own servers, but it sure is better than what we have and is an acceptable solution considering its P2P.

[--Nyssa--]

i actually respected his opinion as a business analyst. it does give us light into someone else's perspective rather than just our own, or yt and forum influencers. i don't know why he's getting so much retaliation for his leaving notes, and it feels like the community's just nit-picking everything he said. 

i didn't agree with all of the points - nekros, khora -- those are fine. part of the point of the game is to let people build their frames to the maximum efficiency of what they're trying to achieve, and compose their teams to achieve what they want to farm effectively. there is nothing wrong with choosing a khora or nekros in an excavation, vodyonoi etc. i also agreed with a lot of other points - endo seems forced. i see the obvious grind time for arcanes via eidolons which is why i don't do it myself. tricap isn't impossible, and difficult at first but once you've built your frames and mastered your roles, then it does start to feel like a grind after several weeks. he made a good point with the false inflation of time, especially when trying to test your endgame frame and weapon builds replies on sitting around in mot survival for 2+ hours before things get interesting. 

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, nyssasyratov said:

i actually respected his opinion as a business analyst. it does give us light into someone else's perspective rather than just our own, or yt and forum influencers. i don't know why he's getting so much retaliation for his leaving notes, and it feels like the community's just nit-picking everything he said. 

Giving his opinion isn't the problem. He can always do that.
Why did he state his profession? He didn't give us a real analysis. He just posted his opinion, which, as was stated multiple times already, isn't an analysis.

[--Nyssa--]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Giving his opinion isn't the problem. He can always do that.
Why did he state his profession? He didn't give us a real analysis. He just posted his opinion, which, as was stated multiple times already, isn't an analysis.

he's just stating his opinion as a biz analyst on what can be improved in the game. what is so offensive about that?

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, nyssasyratov said:

he's just stating his opinion as a biz analyst on what can be improved in the game. what is so offensive about that?

Sure, but he said, he will give us a Business Analyst's Report. It's in the title.
If he does something like this at work, he would get fired, because this wasn't what he advertised. He just posted his opinion. No point in posting his profession at all.

Like a scientist giving a report on global warming, and then just saying that he likes warm weather...

[--Nyssa--]

Just now, WhiteMarker said:

Sure, but he said, he will give us a Business Analyst's Report. It's in the title.
If he does something like this at work, he would get fired, because this wasn't what he advertised. He just posted his opinion. No point in posting his profession at all.

Like a scientist giving a report on global warming, and then just saying that he likes warm weather...

haha. we would all love to expect what we ideally want from everyone. you're forgetting that this isn't his 'real life', this report isn't his 'real job' - he wasn't sourced and paid to do a complete analytical report. i'm sure his actual business reports are fine; likewise i'm sure you're doing alright if not more than alright in your personal and professional life. this was just his own perspective on what he thinks warframe should improve on (which i understand because i do get burnt out from time to time - i left for maybe five to six months before coming back to play almost everyday again). nothing wrong with that.

[5p33dy_01]

16 minutes ago, nyssasyratov said:

haha. we would all love to expect what we ideally want from everyone. you're forgetting that this isn't his 'real life', this report isn't his 'real job' - he wasn't sourced and paid to do a complete analytical report. i'm sure his actual business reports are fine; likewise i'm sure you're doing alright if not more than alright in your personal and professional life. this was just his own perspective on what he thinks warframe should improve on (which i understand because i do get burnt out from time to time - i left for maybe five to six months before coming back to play almost everyday again). nothing wrong with that.

then his title should state that its a "half arsed report". and his message should go on to say "even though he is a professional analyst, he couldn't care less to give a proper report".
rather than making out to be like he has given quality work and he has some kind of importance by being in his profession. meanwhile he's providing mostly trash.

if he wont give a proper report, don't state anything other than "this is my OPINION" just like everyone else.

[Kimimoto]

On 2019-05-29 at 5:27 AM, WhiteMarker said:

You leave the game because you don't enjoy playing anymore

Have you ever once thought the game used to be for these players, and it's now changed for players like you?

Those players loved this game, like I do. It doesn't change the fact that there's nothing to do in the game, because of changes brought on by players like you.

It's ironic how you're throwing your finger around when you're most likely the problem.

[Shalath]

I don't think much of this analysis. Padding content is bad? It is better than not padding which leaves players with nothing to do, therefore not logging in and spending money. A market would stabilize costs? Yes, the -1 bids would stabilise the to the floor. The whole thing reads like somebody who doesn't understand hoe developing a game works and more like the analysis of a player who wants the game changed to suit what they want without ant real understanding of how F2P games make money.