[Maiming Strike] and Dominant Strategy - Why [Maiming Strike] Hurts Warframe as a Whole

[EnvoyOne]

In a recent post I made about blocking and it's current state in Warframe I had a segment talking about [Maiming Strike] and it's current place within the game.

I will make a video illustrating my points. EDIT: VIDEO ADDED

My argument is that in it's current form it introduces a Dominant Strategy into Warframe.

A Dominant Strategy in this case is defined as something that "just always works" requiring no thought, no use of clever mod combinations, and no use of game mechanics. This problem is greatly exacerbated by the growing and prominent use of "spin to win" macros in order to automate the process of inputting perfectly timed spin-attacks to not only optimize movement, but also DPS.

This does not imply or explicitly state that the mod is "over-powered" although in this case I think there are many arguments for this.

Also, I think this is probably a PC problem, I have never played Warframe on anything other than PC and am unfamiliar with the potential for macros in the console space. Because of this I am not speaking to anything other than my own experience.

The Problems:

A Dominant Strategy -

One of the indicators of a problem as I see it is simply that every time I load into a mission there is a higher than 50% chance that at least 2 of the "random" teammates I'm grouped with will be using a [Maiming Strike] + Macro build (excluding myself - Yes I also use one, more on that later).

This is an enormous red flag, reminiscent of the days when loading into a mission there was a higher than 50% chance that 2 of the "random" teammates I'm grouped with were using the Tonkor; a weapon that had it's critical strike chance greatly reduced and brought in line with other explosive weapons by adding self-damage. A welcome and needed change in my opinion, and one that greatly improved the game as far as I'm concerned. The Tonkor introduced a Dominant Strategy(DS) into Warframe at that time, and once players came across it, they adopted it, consciously or not. That is the inherent problem with a DS.

Further discussion about DS might help to consider that any video game based in PvP dies a quick death once a DS is found unless a "balance patch" is issued to deal with it. I'm not going to provide any examples, because I'm sure just reading this your mind lept to the first time you were on the receiving end of one. This is not to say that there aren't imbalances or holes in any PvP game, those things are not a DS, a DS is, by definition, dominating in it's field. "The thing that always works."

[Maiming Strike] -

My major beef with [Maiming Strike] is that it does too many things for too little cost; it's too efficient. And because of this it greatly hurts melee as an effective game system, and makes melee weaker as a result.

I know based on how many responses I've already responded to that people think that I want it "nerfed" or to make melee weaker or to make it deal less damage or to make certain weapons less prominently used or to kill fewer enemies all at once - I don't care about any of those things. What I care about is melee as a whole, a game system, and it's health within Warframe. I want melee to be a more robust system within Warframe. While there are many issues that contribute, melee weapon range and range mods, for example. [Maiming Strike] is just one of them, and the one I'm focused on in this post.

So what about [Maiming Strike] makes it so prone to Dominant Strategy? Slide attacks. Slide attacks already do lots of things. It's a movement ability. It often has higher base damage. It looks cool. It's fun to use. It's easily made into a looping macro. It attacks in a wider than usual attack arc. Simply put, it does too many things. Adding a flat improvement to critical strike on all melee weapons during the already dangerously-close-to-being-a-Dominant-Strategy slide attack, just further cements it as "the obvious choice," in any melee situation. Again, this isn't about whether or not it deals the most damage, or having the same results achieved by some other measure. It's about answering the question "why wouldn't I choose a slide attack if slide attacking solves all of my problems?"

Arguments I've already rebuked:

[Maiming Strike] is not as powerful as Xmod or Yweapon or Zability, therefore it cannot introduce a DS.

This argument is attempting to fight an argument that is not the one I am presenting. A DS is not dependent on anything other than the use cases it finds itself contained within, nor does it matter if something else "does more damage" or "is more effective against shields" or whatever other scenario is displayed. The only thing that matters is the principal of "least resistance," as applied to what it can accomplish with minimal effort. In this case the argument is not that it's "too strong" or "too overpowered," the argument is that it's "too efficient" and shuts out other options.

[Maiming Strike] is only viable on weapons that have long base range, therefore it cannot introduce a DS.

This is simply fundamentally untrue. While the problem is great exacerbated on whips and other weapons with a long base range, much in the same way that the macro makes the problem worse, to say that simply making the mod unusable on whips would make it's inherent problems disappear is simply false.

[Maiming Strike] is very difficult to get, therefore it cannot introduce a DS.

There is some validity to this argument, in my opinion, which is why I think the flat critical stat is fine on [Riven] mods, but even still, a universally equip-able mod that only takes 7 capacity drain is a problem. Potentially, making the [Maiming Strike] cost what's worth in terms of drain, 15 or 16 by my calculation, may fix the problem outright. However, it also just may make people use more [Forma] and only slightly delay the problem.

So what's your point?

Does any of this really even matter? No. What's your point? What do you want out of making this post?

I dunno man! I'm just so freaking sick of loading into a mission and everyone just twirling away the enemies in a race to the end. With melee 3.0 just around the corner I feel like they have an extremely good window to address a lot of the things that make the current melee system lackluster. My previous post about blocking, this post about [Maiming Strike], I think a lot about Warframe, it's Devs, and it's community and I hope to see all of them happy! In this case it feels like I'm telling everyone to "take their medicine" or at the least telling the Devs to make the community "take their medicine" which I'm sure a lot of people don't want to hear, but I wouldn't bother if I honestly didn't feel like changes to these systems wouldn't be beneficial to all parties involved.

Basically, I think of it like this: Spin-attacks are really freaking cool, honestly one of my favorite parts of Warframe, but they are a spice, not the main course. Spin attacks are the cinnamon of the Warframe ingredient list. You cannot live on cinnamon alone, in fact, eating pure cinnamon is toxic and can kill you. But as a smaller part of a greater whole, it can dramatically improve the entire dish. For the last few years, playing Warframe is increasingly more and more cinnamon flavored, to the point where if I don't also just eat cinnamon in many cases, I'm basically left behind.

So what can be done?

I want to include some ideas for potential fixes, not because I think [DE] should listen to me, but because I don't like being the type of person who complains or raises issue with something without already having a potential solution to suggest. I am honestly trying to help after all. My hope is that suggestions like these inspire the right people to make a better and more informed decision that I can.

1. Simply make it normal crit and not flat-additive crit. (This will piss a lot of people off, but honestly this just makes a lot of sense to me. MS is the only mod in the game that gives flat crit. That means it's universally equip-able and has a 100% uptime. The only other things that give flat crit that I can think of are the Harrow buff and the Kavat buff. Things that are both fine in my opinion.)
2. Give it an internal cooldown. (Once every 8 seconds? Every 15? Every 30? Maybe it lasts for 5 seconds every 15 seconds? The options here are endless.) 
3. Remove the mod outright. (Potentially there could be some amount of compensation if this is the route taken, anything from just giving all weapons higher base crit, applying the mod to all weapons at all times, doing nothing to compensate, increasing melee base damage - basically anything, but I think this is the least likely option anyway.)
4. Increase the capacity drain cost. (Again, without access to the internal code and basic design philosophy of the Dev team it seems to me that it should be worth 15 or 16 drain, that makes it 8 with a [Forma], but again, this might not solve the problem of it's overuse and over-saturation at all.)
5. Make it equip-able only on the melee weapons that the Acolytes use. (I really like the way this one ties into the world and the story.)
6. Some combination of the aforementioned suggestions? (Maybe give it normal crit all the time and flat crit on a cooldown?)
7. Do nothing. (Honestly, I meant to have written in my other post about how because this option gets boring and tedious after a few years, it tends to fall off after people use it for a while. Because just holding a macro is often less fun than actually playing the video game, maybe all they need to do is make the other melee option more fun than just partially AFK grinding by holding a macro button.

Anyway, thanks for reading!

Video: (If you're watching this freshly uploaded, the resolution will improve after YouTube finishes processing it. Just wait til then I guess.)

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by JaxMess
1-Added a new section for clarity. 2-Added video. 3-Changed Title

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

But isn't that the point of Melee 3.0? Making other weapons (the ones without range) as viable as a polearm or a whip? I mean, sure Maiming might still be an issue, and dominant styles are not necessarily good, but it was way worse not too long ago. And by the looks of it the "Maiming/Range nerf" hasn't ended yet.

All in all I am a polearm user. Really, 99% of the time I use Guandao. No Maiming, though. Don't like how it restricts my play style to a slide spin if I want to get good results, since I like to play freely with it. Yet I want to try other melees. But the range on most of them is so damn atrocious... Or they lack any special "skill" (imagine if a ground slam with a hammer made enemies in a certain radius fall down and there was an ground-shattering effect).

There's just no reason for me to move from my comfortable polearm, not even for whips because I dislike how they handle. Yet I want melee 3.0 to change that. I don't mind if my faithful polearms get less dominant. I still want to use them but I want to use them as much as all other melees, or at least the majority of them. Tatsu was a step in the right direction. It's the only non-polearm melee I actually enjoy since it actually has some good combos and a nice range to it.

So, getting to the point of the whole post, I think there's no need for us to concern about Maiming and dominant play styles. There was a need for concern once, before melee 3.0 and its goals were announced, but not now while it's still in development. Either way I guess we'll have to wait for it to fully release to see the full extent of the melee changes and how they will affect the game.

[DreisterDino]

They adressed this issue with words already some time ago and assured they want to have a look, but actions still have to follow..

Edit: For example, in the first Devstream in which they showed they new Melee system, on a Reach-Mod that has been picked up the text has been changed from +x percent to +x meters. This would bring most meleeweapons on par with each other since a weapon with barely any range would benefit a lot more than a weapon which has already has good range. And range probably is one of the most important stats on melees anyway.

 

The only thing i am bit worried about is that i have a feeling that we wont see changes to the Melee-system for a long time.

We have Melee 2.9 now and i dont hope but think that we might get stuck at this point for quiet some time (which would be really bad because there are some really annoying issues). Anyone remembers Damage 3.0? Yeah..right..😉

Edited July 2, 2019 by DreisterDino

[Shelusine]

There is no reason to nerf maiming strike as of now. Most melee weapons are simply impractical due to range limitation and flawed mechanic. Furthermore, the overwhelmingly strongest part of a loadout is still the warframe. As long as these issues aren't fixed maiming strike is kinda low on the list of things to fix.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

Nerfing the meta only leads to another meta where everyone only use the strongest weapons in the game so it doesn't solve anything.

[Pooroldude]

Maiming strike isn't the only reason to spin. Spin attacks are often the strongest attack in one action, great for life strike. Spin attacks are also mobile and does not flail you everywhere like most comboes would.

[(NSW)1kSakura]

21 minutes ago, JaxMess said:

So what's your point?

Does any of this really even matter? No.

Thank you, next

[Infirito]

So, you don't like people spinning around and clearing out mobs, okay, what about stuff like Amprex and Ignis? You don't even need a macro for those, you just run in a line holding LMB. There's also Staticor, Plasmor and many more flashy weapons that remove rooms on their own. What about all the Nuke frames? Should all of them also be reworked or do you only care about melee?

Why not go to the extreme and remove everything that kills more than one enemy at a time?

I've tried maiming strike and didn't like it, it's not needed for comfortable play and I really don't see the problem with others using it, same with Argon Scope, Speed Volt and many other "metas". As for flat crit bonus, what about arcanes? They also give flat crits, should the also be removed / reworked? What about cat buffs? How come you're only talking about a single mod instead of looking at the whole game?

 

Yeah, Maiming Strike is an "easy" way, but what isn't?

[(NSW)Katsuro]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I'm not sure.. I'm pugging only and I barely see maiming people.. I think the issue is that the game allows makros on PC.. kill that and you're killing spin 2 win 😛 (because only a few can stand constantly sliding manually)

thats only a PC issue since to my knowledge there aren't any marcos on Nintendo switch.

[Gemini_Jenvas]

Does it matter though? I don't use that crap cause its silly and not needed at all.

[EnvoyOne]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Really, 99% of the time I use Guandao. No Maiming, though. Don't like how it restricts my play style to a slide spin if I want to get good results, since I like to play freely with it. Yet I want to try other melees.

I also don't like how MS restricts play styles. This is part of the problem.

[EnvoyOne]

20 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

They adressed this issue with words already some time ago and assured they want to have a look, but actions still have to follow..

Edit: For example, in the first Devstream in which they showed they new Melee system, on a Reach-Mod that has been picked up the text has been changed from +x percent to +x meters. This would bring most meleeweapons on par with each other since a weapon with barely any range would benefit a lot more than a weapon which has already has good range. And range probably is one of the most important stats on melees anyway.

 

The only thing i am bit worried about is that i have a feeling that we wont see changes to the Melee-system for a long time.

We have Melee 2.9 now and i dont hope but think that we might get stuck at this point for quiet some time (which would be really bad because there are some really annoying issues). Anyone remembers Damage 3.0? Yeah..right..😉

Yeah, the Devs have expressed many times that they basically think MS was a mistake. I agree with them, and while I currently am only focusing on this one very particular mod, the over-arching problems with melee are many and varied, range and range mods included. I don't expect them to change any of this stuff at all, and if they do I fully expect it to take something on the order of years, not months.

[EnvoyOne]

22 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

Nerfing the meta only leads to another meta where everyone only use the strongest weapons in the game so it doesn't solve anything.

I tend to agree, but in the case where the "meta" is completely dependent on a single item, that single item needs to be reviewed.  And again, my argument is not the overall strength of MS or it's ability to "deal lots of damage."

[EnvoyOne]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I'm not sure.. I'm pugging only and I barely see maiming people.. I think the issue is that the game allows makros on PC.. kill that and you're killing spin 2 win 😛 (because only a few can stand constantly sliding manually)

Yes, I'm quite sure that this is a problem only on PC, but killing macros is not a solution. Many people with impairments of some kind or another use macros to simply play the game at all, my concern with the macro part is that it often leads to "afk farming" which is something [DE] quickly squashes whenever it comes up.  In this case it's not as "AFK" as older mechanisms that were removed, but I still think it's likely a problem.

[Voltage]

Telos Boltace is your example of why cool-downs are awful to balance anything.

I find it impressive that Maiming Strike is always the go to for nerfing on melee. You should look at Condition Overload and Weapon Range between different melee categories before jumping at a single multiplier in the many you can place on any given melee weapon. There's no secret why Plague Kripath is a good weapon or why Polearms/Whips are nice and Daggers are awful. Maiming Strike is good, but you would see more variety if Weapon Range was addressed. Slide attacks are also one of the highest damage outputs on melee and many stances are terrible to use.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Voltage

[EnvoyOne]

4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Telos Boltace is your example of why cool-downs are awful to balance anything.

I find it impressive that Maiming Strike is always the go to for nerfing on melee. You should look at Condition Overload and Weapon Range between different melee categories before jumping at a single multiplier in the many you can place on any given melee weapon. There's no secret why Plague Kripath is a good weapon or why Polearms/Whips are nice and Daggers are awful. Maiming Strike is good, but you would see more variety if Weapon Range was addressed. Slide attacks are also one of the highest damage outputs on melee and many stances are terrible to use.

The changes to Telos Boltace were good and welcome, in my opinion. While it is a bit clunky, I find it effective.

I have no issues with [Condition Overload] as my argument has nothing to do with the damage or "overpowered" qualities of MS.

Also, my intent is not for them to "nerf melee," in any capacity. In fact, I believe that changing MS in some capacity will likely strengthen melee as a game system overall.

Range is a very important topic in the discussion of overall melee, but it's something they've already said they will address, so I'll have to wait to see what they say before I really want to get into it much. At the moment they know it's a pretty weak system.

Slide attacks are indeed some of the highest damage and it being the one and only "fall back" option if you don't like the stance of a weapon is a huge part of the problem.

[skoobatoob]

There are absolutely a slew of weapons/warframes/mods/combos that are "stronger" that MS but they typically take a lot of work, or they fall off against certain factions, or they rely on constant flow of energy, etc. I tend not to use MS on principal- it's dirty and it's power even feels like a mistake. I'm proud, however, to use my decked out Mirage Prime with her fancy Lenz. Together they have heaps more clearing power than any weapon with MS but the combination of them cost me time, mats , drain, and (some) thought.

I've been thinking about this problem a lot lately and I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly. I also appreciate where your thoughts are in regards to possible fixes. I certainly believe the mod could be reworked to be potentially as useful without being as game-breaking. 

I like the feel of a conditional mod buff like that of Argon Scope or Bladed Rounds. That's a solid mechanic.

On Melee Crit: Gain X% melee crit (additive, why not?!) for Y seconds. This buff stacks Z times.

This idea comfortably rewards high-crit weapons while not completely enabling 5% weapons.

It also has a familiarity with mods like Berserker

My other vision for MS feels truer to the name: A tweaked Hunter Munitions for melee. Spooky, right? It could be done. I think this would probably go over best with the community considering the popularity (and power) of HunMun.

Your idea of keeping the MS mechanic exclusive to Rivens might be my favorite future.

I have lots of thoughts about this but I have to remember that I'm a mid-range PC player (MR 19 and 1k hours played) and this issue is likely to be in a completely different space for me than that of a brand new player or a veteran player- like yourself. 

[EnvoyOne]

39 minutes ago, skoobatoob said:

There are absolutely a slew of weapons/warframes/mods/combos that are "stronger" that MS but they typically take a lot of work, or they fall off against certain factions, or they rely on constant flow of energy, etc. I tend not to use MS on principal- it's dirty and it's power even feels like a mistake. I'm proud, however, to use my decked out Mirage Prime with her fancy Lenz. Together they have heaps more clearing power than any weapon with MS but the combination of them cost me time, mats , drain, and (some) thought.

I've been thinking about this problem a lot lately and I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly. I also appreciate where your thoughts are in regards to possible fixes. I certainly believe the mod could be reworked to be potentially as useful without being as game-breaking. 

I like the feel of a conditional mod buff like that of Argon Scope or Bladed Rounds. That's a solid mechanic.

On Melee Crit: Gain X% melee crit (additive, why not?!) for Y seconds. This buff stacks Z times.

This idea comfortably rewards high-crit weapons while not completely enabling 5% weapons.

It also has a familiarity with mods like Berserker

My other vision for MS feels truer to the name: A tweaked Hunter Munitions for melee. Spooky, right? It could be done. I think this would probably go over best with the community considering the popularity (and power) of HunMun.

Your idea of keeping the MS mechanic exclusive to Rivens might be my favorite future.

I have lots of thoughts about this but I have to remember that I'm a mid-range PC player (MR 19 and 1k hours played) and this issue is likely to be in a completely different space for me than that of a brand new player or a veteran player- like yourself. 

I agree, it does feel dirty or like a mistake in some capacity.

All of my suggestions to change it always tried to make stay in the same realm of critical chance or something similar, but I really like your suggestion of just having be a totally different mod. This gets it away from shoe-horning every attack into slide attack only mode.

I always really liked the idea of something like "critical strikes slow enemies by X%" to show that they have been injured, or maimed in this case, but it seems [DE] is trying to get away from crowd control.

A melee HunMun could also be really fun and, as you say, fits well into the concept of "being maimed." It'd have to be a bit different, of course, but tossing that on a few melee weapons seems like it could be really fun!

The MS stat exclusive to [Riven]s is also my dream for the future. In that case I feel like it adds so much value to the whole melee realm.

[EnvoyOne]

Here's the video. I'll also add it to the main post:

 

[Lutesque]

Yeah slide attacks aren't a Dominant Strategy....they are literally the only thing that works properly....

Finishers are bugged and aren't even a built in feature into the melee system itself.... you need a Warframe ability to open up the possibility if using Finishers Universally... 

Combos/Stances are Haphazardly designed..... seriously..... why is the so much forward momentum on 90% of the stance Combos on most weapons that cause you to fly past your target before you kill them ? 

Comboless Damage Sucks.... Too much of how Melee Works is tethered to the Combo Multiplier,  more importantly its also too random.... apparently 40% is enough for a melee weapon to be considered a status weapon....and the makes sense when looking at Average DPS Fornulas.... but I don't care about Average DPS over the course of numerous attacks.... I care about each individual hit..... hence why I think Maiming Strike is so good.... you do a Slide attack.... you get a crit.... pure and simple. Its consistent and predictable. Something I a value alot because Warframe is usually an RNG Cluster #*!%....

So what should DE do to maiming strike ? 

Nothing..... there's nothing wrong with the mod.... it just seems like there is because we've gotten used Melee Being Rubbish.....

Don't nerf Maiming Strike.... Buff Melee as a whole....

[EnvoyOne]

10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah slide attacks aren't a Dominant Strategy....they are literally the only thing that works properly....

Finishers are bugged and aren't even a built in feature into the melee system itself.... you need a Warframe ability to open up the possibility if using Finishers Universally... 

Combos/Stances are Haphazardly designed..... seriously..... why is the so much forward momentum on 90% of the stance Combos on most weapons that cause you to fly past your target before you kill them ? 

Comboless Damage Sucks.... Too much of how Melee Works is tethered to the Combo Multiplier,  more importantly its also too random.... apparently 40% is enough for a melee weapon to be considered a status weapon....and the makes sense when looking at Average DPS Fornulas.... but I don't care about Average DPS over the course of numerous attacks.... I care about each individual hit..... hence why I think Maiming Strike is so good.... you do a Slide attack.... you get a crit.... pure and simple. Its consistent and predictable. Something I a value alot because Warframe is usually an RNG Cluster #*!%....

So what should DE do to maiming strike ? 

Nothing..... there's nothing wrong with the mod.... it just seems like there is because we've gotten used Melee Being Rubbish.....

Don't nerf Maiming Strike.... Buff Melee as a whole....

There is a lot of truth you speak here. Due to the current pitfalls and shortcomings of current melee, players are often forced into using MS to cover many of those holes. However, [Maiming Strike] does something that I think fundamentally no mod should be able to do; change the base use case of any weapon into a single, specific use case. In this case slide-attack critical chance.

No matter the weapon, with a single mod, that costs 7, all melee weapons can be slide-attack critical chance weapons. They all become the same thing, and that hurts the whole of Warframe.

But also, as a counter argument to myself, if melee 3.0 addresses those shortcomings then maybe [Maiming Strike] + Slide Macro builds will simply go away on their own.

Edited July 2, 2019 by JaxMess
Punctuation.

[Lutesque]

8 minutes ago, JaxMess said:

There is a lot of truth you speak here. Due to the current pitfalls and shortcomings of current melee, players are often forced into using MS to cover many of those holes. However, [Maiming Strike] does something that I think fundamentally no mod should be able to do; change the base use case of any weapon into a single, specific use case. In this case slide-attack critical chance.

No matter the weapon, with a single mod, that costs 7, all melee weapons can be slide-attack critical chance weapons. They all become the same thing, and that hurts the whole of Warframe.

But also, as a counter argument to myself, if melee 3.0 addresses those shortcomings then maybe [Maiming Strike] + Slide Macro builds will simply go away on their own.

While that is true.... isn't that the beauty of the mod ? 

All other mods in the game just % Chance.... it doesn't fundamentally change how the weapon behaves...  which In my oppinion is a failure of the modding system....

Maiming Strike changes that....

The only problem with Maiming Strike is that its the only mod that does this....

If mods like Weeping Wounds or Argon Scope worked the same way then we would have more option not just in how we mod our weapons but with which weapons are viable.....

Imagine a mod that made the worst weaoon in the game even sem viable. Addadtive bonuses is the only thing can save those weapons. ...

[EnvoyOne]

3 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

While that is true.... isn't that the beauty of the mod ? 

All other mods in the game just % Chance.... it doesn't fundamentally change how the weapon behaves...  which In my oppinion is a failure of the modding system....

Maiming Strike changes that....

The only problem with Maiming Strike is that its the only mod that does this....

If mods like Weeping Wounds or Argon Scope worked the same way then we would have more option not just in how we mod our weapons but with which weapons are viable.....

Imagine a mod that made the worst weaoon in the game even sem viable. Addadtive bonuses is the only thing can save those weapons. ...

Any weapon in the game is already viable up to ~100lvl with no riven and without MS. Some are more effective than others, sure, but I completely disagree that any weapons need any kind of "saving."

The fact that MS just makes melee weapons viable up to ~100lvl faster and with less capacity drain illustrates my point. And what's worse, is that it makes all melee weapons play exactly the same.

[EnvoyOne]

4 hours ago, (NSW)1kSakura said:

Thank you, next

Nothing matters.

 

[EnvoyOne]

4 hours ago, Pooroldude said:

Maiming strike isn't the only reason to spin. Spin attacks are often the strongest attack in one action, great for life strike. Spin attacks are also mobile and does not flail you everywhere like most comboes would.

Exactly! Spin attacks don't need further incentive.