Split Trade Chat into Riven Sales and Normal Sales.

[BlackRoseAngel]

It's far too difficult to buy or sell items when you are getting drowned in a sea of people selling rivens. Is it too much to ask that you put Riven Trading into a separate chat?

[tzadquiel]

trade chat is notoriously used for exploiting players who are unaware of the going prices. and since this cannot be healed, use websites, which use self-normalizing free market mechanic. 

[krc473]

9 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

trade chat is notoriously used for exploiting players who are unaware of the going prices. and since this cannot be healed, use websites, which use self-normalizing free market mechanic. 

How does this contribute anything to the topic at hand? I also have not noticed this happening in the region I trade in. Most of the prices people put are relatively sensible, with some exceptions.

14 minutes ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

Is it too much to ask that you put Riven Trading into a separate chat?

This would be a reasonable thing to do. You can somewhat filter these out anyway. I have got a bunch of riven phrases filtered out (riven, god, godly etc). This seems to work reasonably, but a separate chat would be ideal.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

21 minutes ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

It's far too difficult to buy or sell items when you are getting drowned in a sea of people selling rivens. Is it too much to ask that you put Riven Trading into a separate chat?

As @krc473 said, just use your filters.  If you try to make 2 trade chats, they won't be segregated into Riven and non-Riven trade chats, because people will simply ignore the distinction.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

21 minutes ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

It's far too difficult to buy or sell items when you are getting drowned in a sea of people selling rivens. Is it too much to ask that you put Riven Trading into a separate chat?

Use the filter. 

Simplest way is to turn on a positive filter for one term at a time. 

Want to buy or sell a "Braton"?  Want to sell "Prime Junk"? Looking for a part for "Mirage"? 

Chat gets way more manageable. 

[Nacyus]

I would not mind if trading itself would stay as it is.. interacting with eachother,etc..
But in my opinion, it would be better to find stuff you need or put your own for sale on an ingame site, not warframe market, not tradechat spam..
Rivens or not, the trade chat ingame just constantly be like:

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Nacyus said:

I would not mind if trading itself would stay as it is.. interacting with eachother,etc..
But in my opinion, it would be better to find stuff you need or put your own for sale on an ingame site, not warframe market, not tradechat spam..
Rivens or not, the trade chat ingame just constantly be like:

 

"Keep it how it is; change everything about it."

Have a go at turning on a filter. 

[Nacyus]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

"Keep it how it is; change everything about it."

Have a go at turning on a filter. 

well if you didnt get it..
Keep the trading as it is = ask about the stuff personally, go to dojo, trade.. aka interactions with eachother.
The other part i said is like warframe.market but ingame.
Spamming trade chat and using a 3rd party stuff in itself is not interacting with eachother until you get to trade.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

46 minutes ago, Nacyus said:

well if you didnt get it..
Keep the trading as it is = ask about the stuff personally, go to dojo, trade.. aka interactions with eachother.
The other part i said is like warframe.market but ingame.
Spamming trade chat and using a 3rd party stuff in itself is not interacting with eachother until you get to trade.

No no, I got that. Believe me, it's not the first time I have seen similar. But like I said, try using some simple filters in the chat. 

[Kontrollo]

Yes please, or add a way to reliably filter out all Rivens.

[BlackRoseAngel]

Okay, so here's my question. If one or even two people have mentioned chat filters, then why do 10 other people have to mention it as well and in the snidest possible tone.

I swear these forums are condescending AF.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 hours ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

Okay, so here's my question. If one or even two people have mentioned chat filters, then why do 10 other people have to mention it as well and in the snidest possible tone.

I swear these forums are condescending AF.

Because it has been present in the chat window every single time we opened it up, and somehow people still missed it?

Because quite a lot of people complaining about the filters not working, are describing what they are doing, and it turns out that they are blaming the filter for doing exactly what they are telling it to do, and their logic skills just suck? 

Because just like chat, the forum has a filter (called search) that would have highlighted all of the complaints and all of the obvious responses that we've all seen a gazillion times, but some people can't be bothered to check that, and instead just seem to want to vent their entitled, and ultimately uninformed opinions, only to then complain when others treat their "not special" contributions as "not special"? 

Edited July 25, 2019 by (PS4)guzmantt1977

[Avienas]

On 2019-07-23 at 5:48 AM, krc473 said:

How does this contribute anything to the topic at hand? I also have not noticed this happening in the region I trade in. Most of the prices people put are relatively sensible, with some exceptions.

• Because a flood of these near non-stop spams of riven mod spam occurs and even if you filter out riven/riv/etc. most will likely still flood you with the frustration, while for those that are actually looking for rivens to buy will likely not be able to take the time to properly check range values(praise semlar for these details) to actually draw up a rough idea on IF the riven is really worth X plat. Which can be further compounded by if a weapon is extremely popular,the value will likely drop within the next 3 or less months, which further adds to the riven value is not as much worth as a person is trying to sell it for.
• Riven marketing in general is basically a game of people playing the Price is Right, but instead you have to pay whatever the value you say, OR much higher if you guessed it was lower, otherwise you might end up paying much more then what its actual worth would of been.

On 2019-07-23 at 5:48 AM, krc473 said:

This would be a reasonable thing to do. You can somewhat filter these out anyway. I have got a bunch of riven phrases filtered out (riven, god, godly etc). This seems to work reasonably, but a separate chat would be ideal.

• You can basically refer to what i pointed out in the first line to the reply on the first section, but honestly they might as well just enforce a split up to make market chat less of a hassle then it already is. Before riven mods came into existence, market chat was somewhat tame to a degree, likely due to riven mod spam, it feels like PS4 market chat decided to devolve even worst to where the majority of the market chat traffic, cant properly say they WTB wukong prime neuroptics, galatine prime bp, arcane guardian, etc. nope it has to be wukong neuroptics, galatine bp, and guardian. Short-handing some terminology is understandable, but its just turning into people basically saying completely different things now, especially when we have a mod called Guardian, yet people want to Link that mod and say they were saying wtb arcane guardian, when they clearly ignored the fact they quite literally, linked the mod itself.
• TL;DR; It basically created another head ache where one has to spend an extra several seconds to understand what the person actually was saying and then hope they can still hit a PM on that person to sell the item if they actually plan to make a sale and have said item. Maybe i am ranting from personal experience a tad, but extra frustration on a frustrating marketing system is something that should not become a thing. Especially since not everyone is able to instantly draw the conclusion on what a person ACTUALLY meant, if they short hand a marketing text way too much into some hard to read garbo text.

 

[Caine2112]

Better yet, scrap Trade chat altogether and build an auction house interface where you can simply search using keywords and browse other players' wares without making your eyes bleed reading endless scrolling text.

DE already has solid coding to ensure fair trade, and most of their UI is built.  This is simply the next logical step to making a much more user friendly experience, AND with the added benefit of not having to sit there in front of your monitor for hours on end, but instead play more of the game.

Problem solved.

[Avienas]

32 minutes ago, Caine2112 said:

Better yet, scrap Trade chat altogether and build an auction house interface where you can simply search using keywords and browse other players' wares without making your eyes bleed reading endless scrolling text.

DE already has solid coding to ensure fair trade, and most of their UI is built.  This is simply the next logical step to making a much more user friendly experience, AND with the added benefit of not having to sit there in front of your monitor for hours on end, but instead play more of the game.

Problem solved.

Welcome to the Captain obvious train Caine2112, expect to see a particular mook who wants to keep acting like all you need to do is use one filter to solve everything, but likely does not understand you can have 10 filters and still get bombarded by a massive mess of text still, to arrive soon to harass you.

As said in previous threads, where one person said current warframe trade is the old everquest type of trade and many others could easily join in to make a massive choir on it: How market trading needs to be changed extensively so its better for the overall community, squelches out how what might as well more then half the trade chat. Basically, troll and spam-some trade buy/sell messages which are just down-right disrespectful(some being cons which will usually always work on newer or naive players) or will likely never get purchased/sold due to it being about riven mods likely no one cares about buying/selling or prime sets that are likely priced too high to be bought or priced to low to be sold to that person, especially vaulted sets/relics which might be a part of these clearly ignorant pricings.

Honestly, if i probably took the time, i could likely write a top 10 list, maybe 20 reasons on why market chat & even recruit chat need to be rehauled into more favorable systems for the game overall.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Avienas

[Caine2112]

13 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Welcome to the Captain obvious train Caine2112, expect to see a particular mook who wants to keep acting like all you need to do is use one filter to solve everything, but likely does not understand you can have 10 filters and still get bombarded by a massive mess of text still, to arrive soon to harass you.

As said in previous threads, where one person said current warframe trade is the old everquest type of trade and many others could easily join in to make a massive choir on it: How market trading needs to be changed extensively so its better for the overall community, squelches out how what might as well more then half the trade chat. Basically, troll and spam-some trade buy/sell messages which are just down-right disrespectful(some being cons which will usually always work on newer or naive players) or will likely never get purchased/sold due to it being about riven mods likely no one cares about buying/selling or prime sets that are likely priced too high to be bought or priced to low to be sold to that person, especially vaulted sets/relics which might be a part of these clearly ignorant pricings.

Honestly, if i probably took the time, i could likely write a top 10 list, maybe 20 reasons on why market chat & even recruit chat need to be rehauled into more favorable systems for the game overall.

I'm close to 30 red filters just to screen out Rivens alone.  It has helped to screen out most Rivens, but unfortunately, it also screens out players who might have something other than Rivens that I might want.

Which is the reason I want an auction house of some sort.  That way I can just enter a keyword or three and land on what I want and see a list of available prices and/or items they are willing to trade for.  It really is simple.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Welcome to the Captain obvious train Caine2112, expect to see a particular mook who wants to keep acting like all you need to do is use one filter to solve everything, but likely does not understand you can have 10 filters and still get bombarded by a massive mess of text still, to arrive soon to harass you.

Again, if you aren't able to figure out how to use filters effectively, that's on you. Instead of being silly, you could put a modicum of effort into trying what I suggest, to your own benefit. 

But here you are, trying to demand that everything change, and disparage others because you just can't figure it out. Says a lot, that does. 

Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to do. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

I'm close to 30 red filters just to screen out Rivens alone.  It has helped to screen out most Rivens, but unfortunately, it also screens out players who might have something other than Rivens that I might want.

Which is the reason I want an auction house of some sort.  That way I can just enter a keyword or three and land on what I want and see a list of available prices and/or items they are willing to trade for.  It really is simple.

Pretty sure that instead of what you are doing, just putting fewer positive filters at a time (ideally one or two at a time), would also cut out the vast majority of rivens and is effectively the "just enter the keyword you want and see what's currently on offer" system you're asking for. And without a rather obvious problems that auction houses would cause. 

[Avienas]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again, if you aren't able to figure out how to use filters effectively, that's on you. Instead of being silly, you could put a modicum of effort into trying what I suggest, to your own benefit. 

But here you are, trying to demand that everything change, and disparage others because you just can't figure it out. Says a lot, that does. 

Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to do. 

Oh hey, its the bloke who didnt even listen to the context. I was simply saying he`s now part of the captain obvious train many people were effectively screaming that market chat is a piece of garbage in its current state with the active player base group.

Do i need to seriously write out a f-ing essay on how many filters can be put in place and you STILL get flooded with a wall of text? I did not say i cannot see any good offers anymore, i said the text flood still exists, plus did you even read what Caine2112 said? They agree that market chat is also a mess and needs to get gutted into something better, because people can whine that the prices will get worst, but when everything is already getting absurdly low in value because the typical masses are not even trying to follow things like warframe.market or similar 3rd party sites to follow a pricing average. WELL, its pretty obvious that long as it stays in its state, people will eventually reach the point of wanting full stacks of prime parts for 1 plat, over half the market chat full of WTB (linked riven mod) spam, people wanting nudes, legendary cores, wanting to buy plat, wanting to sell coupons, plat first, WANTING to constantly add IF WTB and IF WTS to the end of thar vice-versa text, *insert stream of how many non-sense messages get literally crammed in market chat on a daily basis here*, etc.

WHILE any actual market chat messages are so clogged up by these random messages you cannot simply use EVEN A DOZEN FILTERS to REMOVE from chat, without basically just muting the entirety of market chat in general, Then you CERTAINLY, SIR, are the one with ear wax overflowing your ears so much they somehow went straight on your eyeballs and you do not even take the time to clean them, basically you are just completely blind to what a mess market chat is right now.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Avienas

[Caine2112]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Pretty sure that instead of what you are doing, just putting fewer positive filters at a time (ideally one or two at a time), would also cut out the vast majority of rivens and is effectively the "just enter the keyword you want and see what's currently on offer" system you're asking for. And without a rather obvious problems that auction houses would cause. 

Unfortunately that doesn't work as well as you might think.  A lot of the times, when looking for weapons especially, Rivens will often contain the weapon's name, therefore they still show up.  Chat filters cause more problems than an Auction House search.

[KaijuKraid]

Filters help to a degree. I use Filters quite often in Trade Chat (and Recruiting Chat.)

That said: I'd still rather have two Trade Chats: One exclusively for Rivens. There's a few reasons I personally think this is a good idea for everyone involved and not just me.

1. A Non-Riven Trade chat would simply be less flooded. Most of the time I go onto Trade Chat, it's Rivens. This might be anecdotal but it I go into an unfiltered chat and I see more Rivens. The only time this seems to not be the norm is a new prime access or something similar.

2. Say I want to look for a Prime Weapon part. (This is especially relevant to when new prime weapons come out.) I decide I don't want a Riven for that part, so I filter out Riven. I filter out God and Godly. Those Rivens still can fill the cracks because quite often in trade chat people just post stuff like "Selling Weapon X Visican" without putting up the term 'God/Godly/Riven.'

3. It's just nicer, simpler and more organized. 

4, Hey, it might be nice to be able to filter two different chats. Maybe I want to buy a Prime Weapon X Part, but I can also easily see Prime Weapon Y Riven. However, this is more of a QoL sort of thing rather than an actual benefit really. 

Benefits: It would simply filter out more things and make it so you don't have to add on more and more filters just to find the thing you want. 
Con: Sellers may not be able to sell Rivens AND other items in the same chat window, making it slightly more complicated... However, those sellers may get more hits as there'll be less flooding of those chats as not everyone may know how to properly use filters.

If the argument for not splitting the trade chats up is: "Well, you just don't know how to use Filters properly", that's kind of a weak argument. DE have always wanted things to be more accessible. While they certainly have had their hits and misses (and their new UI with all those 'Abouts' are VERY miss imo), splitting the trade chat into two would definitely be a upside for far more of the community than a downside. It's nothing about entitlement or such like in this regard: It's just making things more accessible and easier for everyone else. 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

On 2019-07-23 at 2:32 AM, BlackRoseAngel said:

It's far too difficult to buy or sell items when you are getting drowned in a sea of people selling rivens. Is it too much to ask that you put Riven Trading into a separate chat?

I wholeheartedly agree.  Unfortunately, trade functions in game are lackluster at best and predatory at worst, and for now for trading we have to fall back on 3rd party websites if we want to have a decent experience.

The solution is honestly probably to redo large aspects of in-game trading.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Caine2112 said:

Unfortunately that doesn't work as well as you might think.  A lot of the times, when looking for weapons especially, Rivens will often contain the weapon's name, therefore they still show up.  Chat filters cause more problems than an Auction House search.

I'm well aware, but I also know that since the line will only show if it contains the words I filtered for, the number of messages that I have to scan would be manageable, even at the busiest of times. Even the riven traders are only going to show up if they are offering one for a weapon that interests me. 

And tweaking the positive filter to include "p" or "prime" along with , would alleviate more of what you figure is a problem, but at the cost of eliminating any lines that were written hastily/lazily. 

 

An auction house, in any of the suggested forms, would seriously devalue our prices, by causing disproportionate increase in supply without the attendant increase in demand. Any entry level economics textbook will explain what that means. 

 

[Caine2112]

For sure there are fluctuations in market prices, regardless of the system used.  But with all economics, everything balances themselves out over time.  Will the initial introduction of some type of Auction House affect prices?  Absolutely.  Only a fool would think otherwise.  But as time goes on and people learn the market, for better or worse, prices will eventually balance themselves out based on supply and demand.

My entire point for setting up an Auction House is to get rid of the old bleeding-eyes paradigm of endless chat scroll.  With or without working filters.  Implementing one is simply a no-brainer.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Caine2112

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'm well aware, but I also know that since the line will only show if it contains the words I filtered for, the number of messages that I have to scan would be manageable, even at the busiest of times. Even the riven traders are only going to show up if they are offering one for a weapon that interests me. 

And tweaking the positive filter to include "p" or "prime" along with , would alleviate more of what you figure is a problem, but at the cost of eliminating any lines that were written hastily/lazily. 

 

An auction house, in any of the suggested forms, would seriously devalue our prices, by causing disproportionate increase in supply without the attendant increase in demand. Any entry level economics textbook will explain what that means. 

 

*sees this bloke saying by simply adding filters to only look for items with P & Prime in the tag would make it so you only see people selling prime stuff*

*remembers that many riven mod tags & various items can include the letter P, in thar text*

*also remembers that plenty of people outright do not even include prime or P in thar text, which would allow easy access to finding only prime part buyers/sellers, there by making those sales able to go much swifter then making the text absurdly vague to only weapon X or Warframe Y, yet some even go as far not to even write the names correctly, making it even more obscure for buyers/sellers to find unless they only leave wtb or wts filter on, which results in seeing the full massive force of text, likely causing viewers to feel like thar eyes are bleeding*

*triple remembers that some people also like looking for multiple things at once, such as arcanes AND general mods AND stance mods AND syndicate mods AND arch-weapon parts AND syndicate weapons for marketing*

• If what might look like half the market chat on prime parts are basically lost in the process of using filters like those, you basically lose a significant portion of what you are trying to visit market chat for, which basically means you spend a signficant time longer just to find a hit for a buy/sell & likely that person will not even respond to you, likely since they already found a buyer/seller or are just plain away from the keyboard and decide to check back after posting each message to see if anyone PM`d them and then fish for the best offer they like.
• Honey, look i know you really have some vendetta against D.E. changing/removing warframe`s market chat considering you seem to be the only one i see in MULTIPLE THREADS bad-mouthing anyone who denounces market chat`s existing state. But considering VERY low drop chance RARE mods that were originally in the 30 to 60s are basically demanded at 10 plat value these days or very similarly very low value prices, most low priced items have been cut in half by the general populace and even prime sets cannot stay above 100 several hours, AFTER just being released into the game, even if it just got slapped back in the vault recently. 
• MARKET CHAT is already devaluing the fk outta everything because no one has a price history to follow, at least with a price history average, people may play the undercut game, but then eventually the smart people price things a tad bit higher so they end up making more plat in the process unlike the people who priced things so low, despite a CONSTANT DEMAND is present for them, so pricing it lower is just a massive detriment to the buyer/seller except wanting to get it done sooner then later.

Howl all you want, but if a building is already collapsing OR a literal pile of rubble that is occupied by people constantly defecating all over the rubble while screaming obscenities at anyone who just so much glance or walk near it, Well its kind of a MUCH better idea to bulldoze the structure and make a entirely new building, deal with the shaky period of embracing something different and everyone will just get used to it and adapt to it, especially if it results in a much cleaner setup then what is currently going on. 

Very sure plenty would agree that they`d rather have things low-priced and easy to market then have to jump thru many hoops and the values of them are also still low-priced & kicks out what might as well be declared, miscreants that want to slide all around market chat, pantsless and smearing poop all over the floor and making the room even more uncomfortable as it already is, which is basically a small office room with no air-conditioning and people shouting in other people`s faces, while trying to see if anyone else is interesting in whatever pile of lint they have for sale.

Maybe my rather rough analogy on how messy market chat is currently came off a rather nasty thing. But seriously, you have only constantly been saying to tweak filters to resolve everything. With your other argument on being values could get WORST if D.E. finally changed how marketing worked after so many years of not really doing much except slap a filter on it, not even a freaking /CLEAR command at all.

Otherwise you just basically been telling people to stop saying market chat needs changes, With basically nothing further to add to your argument on what the ACTUAL flaws would be present that would make it WORST then market chat or at the very least you were likely so miniscle on mentioning them, they were likely squashed by your declarations that market chat is a golden child that must not be harmed.

If you are going to do any more replies, i declare, that you need to actually ADD more to the thread, instead of just basically saying the same thing. Because probably i will end up just listing all the ideas i have seen so far in the multiple threads on HOW market chat could be improved/changed into something HEALTHY for the overall community in warframe.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Avienas