If gameplay will change significantly?!

[Wakata]

Will you still play?

 

When I was starting playing warframe some years ago, like anybody else, I was a little noob with no slots reactors mods etc. No one was helping me, being able to go 20 minutes in survival was a miracle and I loved that. I was proud when i realized that i can stomp ancients and gunners from air glide and then kill them by 2-3 finishers. I was thinking that using explosive status weapon for that trick is very cool and clever. I loved different animations of combos with obscure stance mods on fist weapons.

 

And then i get better. I slapped corrosive/crit weapon on my Soma prime, started one hitting enemies with my melee, be able to go 40 minutes solo. New content came...

And I love it. I like warframe like it is. Ultimate power fantasy. But i think its fun for me only thanks to that journey and memories from it. And sometimes i am missing those times. I think that's the reason why some players are starting again on fresh accounts.

 

There are videos and threads about Warframe lacking end game content, but I think the state of the actual content is more interesting, at least from the perspective of my noob time memories.

What if your weapons, damage on abilities and mods were nerfed significantly?

What if you will NEED squad to go 40 minutes?

What if you will be daying if you will bullet jump around mission carelessly?

What if you will need to cooperate harder with other players to be able to succes?

Not in artificially scaled 120 minutes survival mission but lets say on lvl 30-40 capture.

 

Will you still play or it will be unnecessary change swaying away from the spirit of the game?

[Wakata]

Ah, I am sorry this was supposed to be in General discussion not in feedback.

[5H4DE]

Yea I would, I love the game and drastic changes would be a nice refreshing thing to explore.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

I would quit if we lost the power to decomate everything and be nearly immortal demigods honestly. I like having a game that does not regulate my power and allows me to let loose instead of being narrow and always scaling to you from time to time. Lets hope we keep out power and instead get some enemy buffs for true endgame instead of the nerf route because it would just make people leave in mass. Thats my opinion atleast, but im sure many people share it...

[LuckyCharm]

Seems fairly valid feedback to me, and yes id actually play more. Currently barely even log in and its just to do things like gift of the lotus alerts. Why? Im mr26 with many many hours in the game. And i one shot 90% of the games content already, and still dont struggle on the rest. 

But that wasnt always the case, pre-damage 2.0 and prior to the massive power creep sure we had some op frame abilities but we didnt have reliable energy sources, and content in those conditions was difficult. Getting to wave 40 in defense was. Challenge you needed to be prepared for. Tower 3 (and then 4) were very hard, enemies could one shot you if you werent safe and it was fun as heck. 

One shotting everything gets old and boring very fast, especially when no new content can still challenge us no matter the level unless de give the enemies cheesey mechanics like ability immunity and massive one shot aoe wipes

[Gabbynaru]

9 minutes ago, Wakata said:

What if your weapons, damage on abilities and mods were nerfed significantly?

What if you will NEED squad to go 40 minutes?

What if you will be daying if you will bullet jump around mission carelessly?

What if you will need to cooperate harder with other players to be able to succes?

Nope. I'm here to play Warframe, not *insert live service here*.

[ikkabotz]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I would quit if we lost the power to decomate everything and be nearly immortal demigods honestly. I like having a game that does not regulate my power and allows me to let loose instead of being narrow and always scaling to you from time to time. Lets hope we keep out power and instead get some enemy buffs for true endgame instead of the nerf route because it would just make people leave in mass. Thats my opinion atleast, but im sure many people share it...

From my own point of view this type of thing fulfills a power fantasy but does not fulfill intriguing or enjoyable gameplay. I get bored af with it. Whatever approach, a challenge is needed as current "god mode" format leaves very little to enjoy in the current sandbox to play in

Edited July 31, 2019 by ikkabotz

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

1 hour ago, ikkabotz said:

From my own point of view this type of thing fulfills a power fantasy but does not fulfill intriguing or enjoyable gameplay. I get bored af with it. Whatever approach, a challenge is needed as current "god mode" format leaves very little to enjoy in the current sandbox to play in

I agree that their isnt much to do with our amazing setups but instead of nerfing them down I would prefer an uber hard game mode that pushes even the best builds and forces you to play near perfectly to survive. The ultimate gear and skill check if you will that gives the best rewards in the game and holds nothing back! Of course DE does not care about endgame players so I doubt this will ever happen but I can dream right...

[Femuru]

When ppl ask for an endgame, no one is asking for anything to be taken away if you enjoy some content that's fine. We are asking for a part of the game to be added that take atleast some amount of effort like a real video game not some cookie clicker. Does that mean ppl aren't allowed to give feedback? Does that mean ppl aren't allowed to ask for anything? Does that mean ppl aren't allowed to give ideas? Does that mean Warframe should never improve? Seriously when ppl ask for an endgame, look at how about every other game has an endgame. It's been a long standing topic for a reason so why shouldn't it be addressed. This is part of the reason why Warframe numbers are actually low when you compare it to big thriving game, hell even destiny still more popular for as much as I wanna bash on it at times. Does the community really need to be at war cuz ppl are just sensitive to reading feedback (literally in the feedback section) instead of going into detailed debates whether if specific ideas are good or bad? I haven't seen so many cop out answers before in a game to avoid feedback it's getting sad. I used to love this game with hopes of seeing it improve some day but seeing this side of the community always kill the little hope I have left. It's like if you enjoy it that's fine but a game doesn't thrive on a single person, the world is filled all kinds of ppl but a good chunk of the community has wanted an endgame so why should they be ruled out as fellow players being told they simply don't belong here, the game isnt for them, go play something else. It leaves me with the thought that there is no point in trying anymore for this game, that it's only gonna be an empty shell like a soccer game with no ball where "everyone" wins. When you defend a game this hard for as long as the white knights have been doing it isn't admirable, it only makes the game look more depressing. 

[kuciol]

I dont know, honestly. I play warframe because it is what it is currently and i cant be sure if i will like until i try something else but keep in mind that things that forced people to depend on somebody else failed miserably. People that constantly cry for "endgame" dont understand that. You guys dont even know what you really want. You cry for Raids, for Bosses but in reality you will get bored of them after a month and it will be another empty waste of development time. For that to have even attempt to work they would have to constantly add more and more such things with more and more different rewards. There wont be time for any innovation or experiments. In the end nothing will change. Look how it is in WoW or GW2. Players just no life the new tier and then wait for another one. Warframe is Warframe , not Destiny, stop trying to force it to be.

Edited July 31, 2019 by kuciol

[Teridax68]

16 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I agree that their isnt much to do with our amazing setups but instead of nerfing them down I would prefer an uber hard game mode that pushes even the best builds and forces you to play near perfectly to survive. The ultimate gear and skill check if you will that gives the best rewards in the game and holds nothing back! Of course DE does not care about endgame players so I doubt this will ever happen but I can dream right...

You mean like ESO or Arbitrations? Because both are modes designed for endgame, yet both flopped, as despite their higher levels, accelerated scaling, and stricter conditions, not only have they failed to deliver a true endgame challenge, they're actually trivially easy with the right frame and build. Saryn can solo ESO thanks to her Spores, and an Inaros with a Maiming Strike Atterax can plow through Arbitrations for hours without breaking much of a sweat.

When it comes to the power fantasy in Warframe, I'm 100% there with you: we need to feel like we're the most powerful thing around against the near-totality of enemies, and when that doesn't happen, much of the game's fantasy falls apart. However, I think many of the ways we're powerful right now don't actually contribute to that feeling all that well, even if they present gameplay issues: being able to kill a whole room of enemies is really strong, for example, but killing enemies we're not even aware of is by nature not really capable of making us feel powerful, as we're not really aware of the power we're outputting there, even though that causes problems when those kinds of abilities turn the game into a walking simulator for everyone else. Stunning a crowd of enemies is similarly a cool thing to do, but when we can spam that ability and permanently suspend everyone on the map to prevent all interaction, that's when the ability becomes boring, without really making us feel all that much stronger. There's also somewhat of a dilution effect at hand that causes us to appreciate our power less, I think: being able to instantly kill every enemy in the room should be one of the coolest things we get to do, but thanks to Mesa such an action is trivial even at high levels. Thus, I'd argue that the current state of affairs actually prevents us in many ways from feeling as powerful as we'd like, and so in some (but not all) cases nerfing our potential for abuse could actually end up making us feel more powerful, as counter-intuitive as that sounds.  

Edited August 1, 2019 by Teridax68

[Gamma745]

42 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

When it comes to the power fantasy in Warframe, I'm 100% there with you: we need to feel like we're the most powerful thing around against the near-totality of enemies, and when that doesn't happens, much of the game's fantasy falls apart. However, I think many of the ways we're powerful right now don't actually contribute to that feeling all that well, even if they present gameplay issues: being able to kill a whole room of enemies is really strong, for example, but killing enemies we're not even aware of is by nature not really capable of making us feel powerful, as we're not really aware of the power we're outputting there, even though that causes problems when those kinds of abilities turn the game into a walking simulator for everyone else. Stunning a crowd of enemies is similarly a cool thing to do, but when we can spam that ability and permanently suspend everyone on the map to prevent all interaction, that's when the ability becomes boring, without really making us feel all that much stronger. There's also somewhat of a dilution effect at hand that causes us to appreciate our power less, I think: being able to instantly kill every enemy in the room should be one of the coolest things we get to do, but thanks to Mesa such an action is trivial even at high levels. Thus, I'd argue that the current state of affairs actually prevents us in many ways from feeling as powerful as we'd like, and so in some (but not all) cases nerfing our potential for abuse could actually end up making us feel more powerful, as counter-intuitive as that sounds.  

Reading this makes me think that some people have different taste of power fantasy than others. What you described sounds more like the feeling when overcoming a stronger foe, when you know you just bested something that by normal thinking should be the other way around. It has it's own brand of satisfaction, I will admit that.

But Warframe seems to offer a different kind, where you already presented as, 1-to-1, the strongest force in the setting. Warframe is already advertised as the literal powerhouse that the could decimate armies or tip the scale to their favor, the strongest superweapon in the setting. Both can be said as power fantasy, yet offer very opposite experience.

[OmegaVoid]

17 hours ago, Wakata said:

What if you will need to cooperate harder with other players to be able to succes?

Difficult to achieve in solo.

Even harder in public matchmaking. 😆

17 hours ago, Wakata said:

What if you will NEED squad to go 40 minutes?

Once in a blue moon that's great. On a day-to-day basis it's about 20 mins past my attention span. 😝

17 hours ago, Wakata said:

What if your weapons, damage on abilities and mods were nerfed significantly?

...

What if you will be daying if you will bullet jump around mission carelessly?

...
Not in artificially scaled 120 minutes survival mission but lets say on lvl 30-40 capture.

Now this I'd say would be achieved if you could simply bump up the levels on the Star Chart. And I'd be all for that.

I have not the great skillz, but Sedna isn't scary anymore. At least not for the frames and weapons I use a lot and have potatoed and forma'd.

I'd like to able to earn the ability set my Star Chart to a flat level 50-60 throughout: same as Sortie 1, but without the fiddly modifiers. (Nakki & Vodyanoi would have to be exceptions, of course!)

Then I could enjoy the unique ambience of the Earth Forest or Mars Settlement tilesets at will, while facing enemies who couldn't be one-shotted by a stiff breeze!

Then when (or if) that becomes routine, up to Sortie 2 levels. Then Sortie 3 levels. And beyond, even, for players who can handle it.

That's not really a change to the gameplay as such, but it would go a long way to validating all the upgrades we grind for.

And players who just want to offhandedly roflstomp everything in sight could stick with the base-level Star Chart.

[Teridax68]

On 2019-08-01 at 10:54 AM, Gamma745 said:

Reading this makes me think that some people have different taste of power fantasy than others. What you described sounds more like the feeling when overcoming a stronger foe, when you know you just bested something that by normal thinking should be the other way around. It has it's own brand of satisfaction, I will admit that.

But Warframe seems to offer a different kind, where you already presented as, 1-to-1, the strongest force in the setting. Warframe is already advertised as the literal powerhouse that the could decimate armies or tip the scale to their favor, the strongest superweapon in the setting. Both can be said as power fantasy, yet offer very opposite experience.

I don't think that's really what I'm describing at all. What I'm saying is that it is a good and valid feeling to be able to single-handedly clear a room full of enemies, immobilize a whole crowd, effortlessly outmaneuver a Grineer soldier and hack them to pieces before they know what's going on, or otherwise express immensely superior power, agility, and skill. Even an elite Grineer or Corpus unit should feel markedly weaker than a Tenno, and my point isn't that we should be overcoming enemies stronger than us (aside maybe from some bosses), but that there is a happy medium to be had where one can clearly be the strongest fighter in the room, without having to run into abuse cases where one spams room-clearing damage or halts the entire map with spammed crowd control or the like. In the Star Wars universe, for example, Jedi and Sith are clearly far more powerful than the average lifeform, but they do not need to Jedi Mind Trick or Force Lightning a literal entire planet each time just for that power to be conveyed. Thus, in Warframe, there is likely room for balancing and reworking that allows us to feel powerful, perhaps even more powerful than we feel now, without that power degenerating into simply winning the game at the press of a button.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Teridax68

[Leyvonne]

If the entire game had a huge difficulty increase, I'd stop playing and never look back.
If new challenging content was added, I'd happily play the old stuff and leave the challenge to those who want it.
If group content was added, I'd just ignore it the same way ignore Eidolons and Orb fights (nothing against playing with other people, but I hate those who randomly go afk or just simply leave in the middle of a fight and I know I'd be the person who does that so I stay away from groups).
 

So basically adding new challneging stuff for those who crave it, even if I wouldn't play it myself, wouldn't bother me at all... but changing the entire game would pretty much ruin it for me.

[OmegaVoid]

4 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Warframe seems to offer a different kind, where you already presented as, 1-to-1, the strongest force in the setting.

Not when you start out you aren't! 😆

Mk-1 Braton does such little damage with MyFirstSerrationMod that you're in real danger of running out of ammo and having to resort to peashooter secondary.

No reliable sources of energy, so you can't spam abilities. Use 'em too hastily and you have no energy when you really need 'em. Leave it too late and your powers aren't enough 'cos you don't have the mods ranked up...

And no healing abilities.

Lol, I got Damaged Equilibrium from Vor's prize, and I was still using it on Neptune: I remember one particular occasion vividly, ransacking lockers in one of those little dead-ends, praying for an Energy Orb to fall out 'cos I was near dead and there was a whole bunch of Corpus just outside. Power fantasy? Mmmmmm, not so much!

But that's a fond memory for me. 'Cos I got through it.

Nowadays, outside of taking Harrow into a no-shields Nightmare mission, or using the "wrong" frame for the job, there's not much prospect of failure.

Which for me means there's no real satisfaction in success.