What are we collecting for?

[nslay]

By playing Warframe, you are helping feed starving threads with nutritious compute time and giving jobs to idle processors! It's a noble deed dare I say.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Mesmer skin : have you actually used it ? My build with 14 charges is more than viable. On paper, yeah, having that few charges in a game like warframe, what's the point right ? But in practice it works really well. Since you're realisticly not gonna stand still, you don't get hit by every single ennemy you encounter. And even if you get hit by a volley of bullets, you only loose a single charge per ennemy. And since that ennemy is now stunned, he won't hit you no more. (And you can enthrall for free, yeaaah said noone). And you can refresh it for unlimited invincibility.

This ability alone is what puts him at High tier for me (note that I didn't say Top tier, aka meta-defining tier, big difference). For long arbis with lvl 150+ one shotty ennemies, I'm rocking my Revenant without a second thought. Permanent 100% damage reduction, if you want to talk extra high level damage, Chroma and Inaros will fall way earlier than Revenant. Who cares if it has a klunky nearly useless synergy with his 1 ? It's still a very strong power.

I'm getting the feeling that you didn't play Revenant more than 10 minutes. If you did, you'd know that a well build and well played Mesmer skin doesn't need to be refreshed any more often than a Chroma's 3 (about once per minute), and that you don't have to ever cower away since, as I already said last post, it is refreshable.

Now sure, if you're standing around, waiting to get shot, charges will deplete fast, and you'd have only yourself to blame for it.

Rolling guard ? Lol. Adaptation and arcanes ? Lol again. Dump power strenght as if you were building for his 4, get 14 charges, get comfy, grofit.

Duration based abilities beeing more reliable ? If you assume that his charges get depleted in 10 seconds every time, but as we saw earlier that is wrong. Furthermore, duration abilities need to be refreshed regularly no matter what happens, where a charge based will stay up as long as it has charges left. Not saying that one is better than the other, just that they are just as viable.

 

Reave : Revenant is not a tank, he has one tanky ability. What game do you think you are playing ? There are no such as a big lumbering tank that soaks damage for the team like a moba, tanking is

Danse Macabre : decent and confortable ability, not much to say, a pleasure to clear trash with it. When I was saying lvl 60, I was specifically talking about lvl60 trash clearing thanks to his 4, nothing else. I know lvl 60 is easy, thank you, are you gonna tell me the color of the sky next ?

 

Not designed with synergies in mind ? BS. His kit is full of synergies, just not very usefull ones. Huge difference between "kinda failing" and "not even trying".

 

Broken idle animation : what are you talking about ? And even if that was the case : oh the humanity !

Uninspired name : if you say so I guess, but that's a low blow.

Long cast time : really ? Longest is mesmer skin, which is just as fast as Chroma's 2. Haven't seen anyone cry about this. You're really pushing.

Yes, I consider him high tier. He can be unkillable with a bit of CC for ultra high level, and he can also be a very confortable, mobile enough, aoe damage frame. He is not amongst the game breaking top tier, he has a limit to the damage he can put out, so what ? Does he need to be as broken OP as mesa/saryn/others to not be classified as bad ? It's stupid.

 

You outdps a Revenant ? Woh ! Such proof ! He might have been snoring in a corner, had bad weapons, be unranked, be simply bad or all of the above. Clap clap clap... I've outdps Saryns in ESO with an acceltra alone, this proves nothing.

And then you go on about how Reb would have designed him... Yeah sure, if you say so bro. That seems very far fetched that they'd leave their devs hanging while Reb designs something from the ground up, sounds more like she gave a suggestion or two, but anything else seems very unlikely... If I was to theorize on this, I'd say you decided to hate Revenant for some reason, and are then linking the dots that benefit your argument. But I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it's all true : Well, she did a pretty good job, would have been easy to make him ridiculously OP, but she made him strong but not Mesa lvl strong, good from a novice !

 

Now, after all of this, might I suggest getting down from your high horse and actually playing the guy before claiming stuff you don't know ? Because it really feels like you watched a video and based your all opinion from that. Oh great teller of truth and reminder of badness, go check your facts and actually experience what you're claiming, because your great crusade is between sad and laughable now.

 

Do Mesa and Chroma have bad first abilities? Yes, but unlike Revenant they have other abilities that are actually worth using.

Mesmer Skin: I’ve used Mesmer Skin and it’s failed me time and time again. It’s like trying to protect yourself with a water tissue. I go back and use Nezhas Warding Halo of Gauss’s kinetic plating and I trust those abilities far more for keeping me alive. 
Mesmer Skin stunning enemies actively makes him worse. Because it’s prevents Danse Macabre from actually taking advantage of its scaling ability.

in regards to rolling guard. I mentioned it because so many people bring it up to defend Revenant. All the other tank frames have some for if counter measure to protect them when their tank ability runs out, or they can recast and reset the timer. Revenant recasting Mesmer Skin is completely vulnerable to damage. His only safe way of recasting the ability is to run away. And good tanks never need to run away.

Warding halo provides an AOE best proc for CC and provides 12 seconds of invincibility.

kinetic Plating: long duration and the fact that Gauss moves quickly means you’ll always have safe opportunities to recast it.

Rhino has Rhino stomp to CC enemies when iron skin runs out (if it ever does run out)

Chroma can recast vex armor without losing his buffs

Inaros whole deal is maintaining his Heath and armor

Hildryn can just replenish her shield with a button press and has shield gating

Gara can refresh her 2 with her 4

Wukong can recast defy whenever you reset the timer tho he’s already very hard to kill.

Nidus not only has insane amounts of damage resistance but he also has access to 90% DR and his passive grains him a total of 6 revives from death (if you aren’t building up stacks continuously after reaching 100). And here I am realizing that Mesmer skin is just a far far worse version of Nidus’s passive.

Revenant has to run away.

And there’s the classic “You just don’t know how to use the frame” accusation. You know if you’re going to try and defend Revenant can you not do it in the most desperate way. All you’re doing when you say that is that you have no idea how to actually defend him but you don’t want me to be right.

Reave: you can’t say a frame isn’t a tank when you literally then say “he has a tank you ability”. There is ABSOLUTE ZERO reasons for you to be facing level 50 billion enemies. Long endurance runs grant the same exact rewards as shorter 2-3 hour ones. And Void Towers were removed because DE doesn’t want people spending hours in a single endurance mission. So Revenants current skill set exists in a game that wants nothing to do with him.

Danse Macabre: just trash mobs? Trash mobs are the easiest to kill. 
 

Syneriges: Just because he has synergies doesn’t mean the abilities were ever designed to actually have synergies and it shows.

Idle animation: his noble stance is broken and he can spin his head pretty much 180 degrees around. Pair that with his arm raised up making one of the flames on his arm droop. It’s just annoying. Is it petty? Yes. Do I care? No

Name: a Revenant is what you would call a generic undead enemy in a fantasy game. So calling a frame that just shows how little effort actually went into naming him. He’s like a gen 1 frame. Also not to mention that his name was literally decided on in the middle of the Tennocon 2018 art panel.

Long cast times: Revenant is soooo sloooow. Enthrall takes forever, Mesmer Skin takes forever, Reave (which is supposed to be an escape ability) takes for ever which is liable to get you killed. Danse macabre is a 4th ability so it’s allowed to be a little slower. Why is it of all the possible things they could’ve taken from the Eidolon they pick it’s slow movement? There’s no justification for these abilities to be that slow to cast.

If you consider Revenant high tier then you’re wrong. Simple as that.

That Revenant was genuinely trying. Notic how I said I out killed him twice over. That means I got atleast twice as many kills as him. And this was a softie defense. I can even give you the exact numbers.

Gauss: 333 kills

Revetrash: 150 kills.

And there you are (purposely?) misinterpreting what I’m saying. Revenant came out around the time where DE was making ForTuna. So their staff was probably pretty busy. So they put Reb in charge of the team who was working on Revenant. Rebecca was also said to be working with the rework team on a devstream where she was working on Nyx. And look at how poorly that rework turned out. Also Rebecca has an obsession with vampires. So I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say the Warframe who’s lore has nothing to do with vampires, still ended up a vampire, and is one of the worst designed and performing frames in the game was because of Rebecca. They also called him “Rebs frame” and made some pretty strong suggestions that Reb was working on Revenant in the devstreams .

I’ve played Revenant. He is trash. And I hate him and everything he represents. And while you think this is sad and laughable. You’re the one gullible enough to think Revenant is good. So I wouldn’t call you the best judge of well anything really.

Edited October 30, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[DenisJaguar]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

I have not only done my research, I have played him.

 

Enthrall: we agree, it's trash. But hey, Mesa's 1 is trash, Chroma's 1 is trash, not all frames see their entire kit get used. It's not a good thing in itself, but that's how things are for many frames nowaday.

Mesmer skin : have you actually used it ? My build with 14 charges is more than viable. On paper, yeah, having that few charges in a game like warframe, what's the point right ? But in practice it works really well. Since you're realisticly not gonna stand still, you don't get hit by every single ennemy you encounter. And even if you get hit by a volley of bullets, you only loose a single charge per ennemy. And since that ennemy is now stunned, he won't hit you no more. (And you can enthrall for free, yeaaah said noone). And you can refresh it for unlimited invincibility.

This ability alone is what puts him at High tier for me (note that I didn't say Top tier, aka meta-defining tier, big difference). For long arbis with lvl 150+ one shotty ennemies, I'm rocking my Revenant without a second thought. Permanent 100% damage reduction, if you want to talk extra high level damage, Chroma and Inaros will fall way earlier than Revenant. Who cares if it has a klunky nearly useless synergy with his 1 ? It's still a very strong power.

I'm getting the feeling that you didn't play Revenant more than 10 minutes. If you did, you'd know that a well build and well played Mesmer skin doesn't need to be refreshed any more often than a Chroma's 3 (about once per minute), and that you don't have to ever cower away since, as I already said last post, it is refreshable.

Now sure, if you're standing around, waiting to get shot, charges will deplete fast, and you'd have only yourself to blame for it.

Rolling guard ? Lol. Adaptation and arcanes ? Lol again. Dump power strenght as if you were building for his 4, get 14 charges, get comfy, grofit.

Duration based abilities beeing more reliable ? If you assume that his charges get depleted in 10 seconds every time, but as we saw earlier that is wrong. Furthermore, duration abilities need to be refreshed regularly no matter what happens, where a charge based will stay up as long as it has charges left. Not saying that one is better than the other, just that they are just as viable.

 

Reave : Revenant is not a tank, he has one tanky ability. What game do you think you are playing ? There are no such as a big lumbering tank that soaks damage for the team like a moba, tanking is only selfish. And how would "having a dash" equates to "Revenant bad tank" ? Doesn't make any sense. Even in mobas and such there are heavy tank with high mobility, so that's a non argument from the start.

Now, the fact that it heals is nonsense regarding the rest of his kit, we agree, almost, more on this later. Its synergy with enthrall is klunky, yes, but if you want to go ridiculously high lvl endurance, ON PAPER, it has the potential to kill ANYTHING. Corrupted bombard lvl 5000 ? Enthrall, reave, reave, reave, dead. Damage taken ? 0. I don't advise doing this AT ALL, pretty sure it would be way too many plates to spin at once, but it's there if you need it for some reason.

But its main use is to give mobility and heals during his 4. Mobility because mobility is nice. Heals so that you can keep taking damage during 4, radiating this damage, reave heal and keep going. Considering DE designs content around lvl 80-100 beeing the maximum "normal" content (aka lvl at which a lancer is not quite totally one shotting you), it makes sense that reave heals. NOW, I agree that this is still not a very good thing, as you need to subject yourself to the risk of dying to get the most out if your 3 and 4 and this just stops it from working beyond a certain lvl.

It's not an awesome ability yes, it's a dash. If it would have been a dash for your 4 and nothing else, I would still be happy with it, wouldn't change how I use it. It's a dash, no reason to bash the character for it.

 

Danse Macabre : decent and confortable ability, not much to say, a pleasure to clear trash with it. When I was saying lvl 60, I was specifically talking about lvl60 trash clearing thanks to his 4, nothing else. I know lvl 60 is easy, thank you, are you gonna tell me the color of the sky next ?

 

Not designed with synergies in mind ? BS. His kit is full of synergies, just not very usefull ones. Huge difference between "kinda failing" and "not even trying".

 

Broken idle animation : what are you talking about ? And even if that was the case : oh the humanity !

Uninspired name : if you say so I guess, but that's a low blow.

Long cast time : really ? Longest is mesmer skin, which is just as fast as Chroma's 2. Haven't seen anyone cry about this. You're really pushing.

Yes, I consider him high tier. He can be unkillable with a bit of CC for ultra high level, and he can also be a very confortable, mobile enough, aoe damage frame. He is not amongst the game breaking top tier, he has a limit to the damage he can put out, so what ? Does he need to be as broken OP as mesa/saryn/others to not be classified as bad ? It's stupid.

 

You outdps a Revenant ? Woh ! Such proof ! He might have been snoring in a corner, had bad weapons, be unranked, be simply bad or all of the above. Clap clap clap... I've outdps Saryns in ESO with an acceltra alone, this proves nothing.

And then you go on about how Reb would have designed him... Yeah sure, if you say so bro. That seems very far fetched that they'd leave their devs hanging while Reb designs something from the ground up, sounds more like she gave a suggestion or two, but anything else seems very unlikely... If I was to theorize on this, I'd say you decided to hate Revenant for some reason, and are then linking the dots that benefit your argument. But I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it's all true : Well, she did a pretty good job, would have been easy to make him ridiculously OP, but she made him strong but not Mesa lvl strong, good from a novice !

 

Now, after all of this, might I suggest getting down from your high horse and actually playing the guy before claiming stuff you don't know ? Because it really feels like you watched a video and based your all opinion from that. Oh great teller of truth and reminder of badness, go check your facts and actually experience what you're claiming, because your great crusade is between sad and laughable now.

 

To be honest sir, let this person have is own say with Revenant.

You are wasting you're time, some gamers shown that they can do alot with him.

There is no reasonning with him.

Just put your energy of argument with someone else, even a wall would be better at arguing over Revenant compare to him.

But you are free to do what you want or think, just like him.

[SastusBulbas]

I am pretty much a hoarder, probably something in real life causing that issue.

 

I agree with the OP, it offers no rewards, I have a lot in WF but rarely play anything diverse.

 

Sadly I dont see much changing, online games can die. Or change to the point you lose interest, or not change till a point you lose interest.

 

I have fond memories of BFP4F, I played that pretty much from begining to end, had collected all rarities and spent so much money, just to witness EAsy shrug at populated servers with paying customers.

Then they started releasing more items and at the end pretty much all items were available to new players before server shut down.

 

 

WoT is similar, selling beta and reward tanks, changing. Used to be a reasonably skilled player now I cant find the will to make an effort.

 

I played WF at beta, lost interest, left, my youngest lad asked me to find my old account and log in. Found this old account from just after beta, played almost a year on and off now.

 

Before games I used to cycle all the time....

[IIDMOII]

I've been asking this for years.

At some point there has to be a reason and a real endgame. Or else they will have just strung us along while they sell platinum.

And I don't mean another story episode either. I mean put the game in context. Why? For what?

Every other game I've played with a progression system or power curve always has a pretty clearly described goal or loop. Not warframe. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by IIDMOII

[Fallen77]

Le 30/10/2019 à 17:48, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Do Mesa and Chroma have bad first abilities? Yes, but unlike Revenant they have other abilities that are actually worth using.

Mesmer Skin: I’ve used Mesmer Skin and it’s failed me time and time again. It’s like trying to protect yourself with a water tissue. I go back and use Nezhas Warding Halo of Gauss’s kinetic plating and I trust those abilities far more for keeping me alive. 
Mesmer Skin stunning enemies actively makes him worse. Because it’s prevents Danse Macabre from actually taking advantage of its scaling ability.

in regards to rolling guard. I mentioned it because so many people bring it up to defend Revenant. All the other tank frames have some for if counter measure to protect them when their tank ability runs out, or they can recast and reset the timer. Revenant recasting Mesmer Skin is completely vulnerable to damage. His only safe way of recasting the ability is to run away. And good tanks never need to run away.

Warding halo provides an AOE best proc for CC and provides 12 seconds of invincibility.

kinetic Plating: long duration and the fact that Gauss moves quickly means you’ll always have safe opportunities to recast it.

Rhino has Rhino stomp to CC enemies when iron skin runs out (if it ever does run out)

Chroma can recast vex armor without losing his buffs

Inaros whole deal is maintaining his Heath and armor

Hildryn can just replenish her shield with a button press and has shield gating

Gara can refresh her 2 with her 4

Wukong can recast defy whenever you reset the timer tho he’s already very hard to kill.

Nidus not only has insane amounts of damage resistance but he also has access to 90% DR and his passive grains him a total of 6 revives from death (if you aren’t building up stacks continuously after reaching 100). And here I am realizing that Mesmer skin is just a far far worse version of Nidus’s passive.

Revenant has to run away.

And there’s the classic “You just don’t know how to use the frame” accusation. You know if you’re going to try and defend Revenant can you not do it in the most desperate way. All you’re doing when you say that is that you have no idea how to actually defend him but you don’t want me to be right.

Reave: you can’t say a frame isn’t a tank when you literally then say “he has a tank you ability”. There is ABSOLUTE ZERO reasons for you to be facing level 50 billion enemies. Long endurance runs grant the same exact rewards as shorter 2-3 hour ones. And Void Towers were removed because DE doesn’t want people spending hours in a single endurance mission. So Revenants current skill set exists in a game that wants nothing to do with him.

Danse Macabre: just trash mobs? Trash mobs are the easiest to kill. 
 

Syneriges: Just because he has synergies doesn’t mean the abilities were ever designed to actually have synergies and it shows.

Idle animation: his noble stance is broken and he can spin his head pretty much 180 degrees around. Pair that with his arm raised up making one of the flames on his arm droop. It’s just annoying. Is it petty? Yes. Do I care? No

Name: a Revenant is what you would call a generic undead enemy in a fantasy game. So calling a frame that just shows how little effort actually went into naming him. He’s like a gen 1 frame. Also not to mention that his name was literally decided on in the middle of the Tennocon 2018 art panel.

Long cast times: Revenant is soooo sloooow. Enthrall takes forever, Mesmer Skin takes forever, Reave (which is supposed to be an escape ability) takes for ever which is liable to get you killed. Danse macabre is a 4th ability so it’s allowed to be a little slower. Why is it of all the possible things they could’ve taken from the Eidolon they pick it’s slow movement? There’s no justification for these abilities to be that slow to cast.

If you consider Revenant high tier then you’re wrong. Simple as that.

That Revenant was genuinely trying. Notic how I said I out killed him twice over. That means I got atleast twice as many kills as him. And this was a softie defense. I can even give you the exact numbers.

Gauss: 333 kills

Revetrash: 150 kills.

And there you are (purposely?) misinterpreting what I’m saying. Revenant came out around the time where DE was making ForTuna. So their staff was probably pretty busy. So they put Reb in charge of the team who was working on Revenant. Rebecca was also said to be working with the rework team on a devstream where she was working on Nyx. And look at how poorly that rework turned out. Also Rebecca has an obsession with vampires. So I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say the Warframe who’s lore has nothing to do with vampires, still ended up a vampire, and is one of the worst designed and performing frames in the game was because of Rebecca. They also called him “Rebs frame” and made some pretty strong suggestions that Reb was working on Revenant in the devstreams .

I’ve played Revenant. He is trash. And I hate him and everything he represents. And while you think this is sad and laughable. You’re the one gullible enough to think Revenant is good. So I wouldn’t call you the best judge of well anything really.

I would have nothing to say but repeat what I already said and urge you to think more it all.

I just wonder how you can manage to have a bad time with mesmer skin, as it personnaly has never let me down. Only when I would forget to refresh it, in the same way and as often as Mesa's and Chroma's and Gara's and Gauss's buffs (and since I'm never standing still in the middle of ennemies, without the need to step away in fear, in sorti, arb, longass kuva surv).

Because appart from that ability that you can't use properly for some reason, his kit doesn't need to perform any better than that, since as you said, DE doesn't want us to go for extremely high levels. So you hate him because... He is not as stupidly OP as some other frames ? That's some good reasonning...

Finally, you said in an earlier post that it doesn't make sense for a tank like Revenant to have a dash. And then you go on about kinetic plating and Gauss and how it's so much better because Gauss is fast. He has a tanky ability right ? By your own logic, he can only be a tank right ? Why does he need to run so fast then ? You should stop here. As I said, sad, laughable.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

44 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

I would have nothing to say but repeat what I already said and urge you to think more it all.

I just wonder how you can manage to have a bad time with mesmer skin, as it personnaly has never let me down. Only when I would forget to refresh it, in the same way and as often as Mesa's and Chroma's and Gara's and Gauss's buffs (and since I'm never standing still in the middle of ennemies, without the need to step away in fear, in sorti, arb, longass kuva surv).

Because appart from that ability that you can't use properly for some reason, his kit doesn't need to perform any better than that, since as you said, DE doesn't want us to go for extremely high levels. So you hate him because... He is not as stupidly OP as some other frames ? That's some good reasonning...

Finally, you said in an earlier post that it doesn't make sense for a tank like Revenant to have a dash. And then you go on about kinetic plating and Gauss and how it's so much better because Gauss is fast. He has a tanky ability right ? By your own logic, he can only be a tank right ? Why does he need to run so fast then ? You should stop here. As I said, sad, laughable.

If you have nothing more to say then we are done here.

I have a bad time with Mesmer Skin because it’s a terrible tank ability.

I hate Revenant because he’s poorly designed and the decisions that lead to that poor design are mind bogglingly insane.

I realized after I brought up Gauss I opened the window of “well he’s a tank with a movement ability too. Why aren’t you giving him crap?”. Mach rush is a far better movement ability than Reave. It’s also the ability you use to keep Gauss battery up. And overall Gauss is far better designed and a far better frame than Revenant.