Cross-Save (Hear me out)

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Hey all,

So, I've spent some time on the forums and seen everyone's feedback for The Old Blood (not really sure if I should be looking forward to it?). I recently created a brand new (PC) account, and I'm currently in a Limbo where my MR 25 Xbox account has not seen the new update, but my PC account has. Something else I noticed?

This game is absolutely beautiful on PC.

The dynamic shadows and lighting along with the clarity and realism of the particle effects is just gorgeous. Granted, this may have something to do with the fact that I'm still using an original Xbox One that was bought 6 years ago. Nevertheless, the change in graphics was mind boggling to me, and my appreciation for the game went up quite a bit.

I'm sure you can see where this is going. One does not simply restart Warframe after 750 hours and a couple hundred dollars put into the game, which brings me to my point of cross-saving. I know DE has already stated they're doing an initial investigation, I'm just here to maybe help create a stronger push for it. But lets ask the question; why should DE implement cross-saving?

Cross-Saving would be beneficial for a number of key reasons.

1. Allows a player to pick up and play at any time across any device, further promoting play time. From a business perspective, this is a good thing, because more play means more investment, which translates to more likely to spend money on the game (assuming they enjoy the game of course).

2. Allows players who wish to play on one specific platform to do so regardless of where their account originated. This applies to players like myself who really would spend more money on this game if I was able to play on my desired platform. The reasoning may be different for individuals, but those who wish to play on a different platform then where their account originated on a different platform, will probably come to a general consensus; implement cross-saving.

3. In general, promotes a larger population and more than likely, a gradually increasing player base. Think about it like this. Dave plays Warframe on Xbox, but would prefer to play on PC. Jim doesn't play Warframe at all, but would be willing to play with Dave, however, Jim has a PS4. In today's Warframe, Jim and Dave would be unable to play together. *Cross Save is implemented* Look at that! Dave has switched his account to PC, and Jim has decided to pick up the game, because Dave isn't losing his MR25 account, and he can now play with Jim. This scenario (and many others) do exist, and the implementation of cross-saving would be a benefit to likely a decent portion of Warframe's population.

---To briefly cover the topic of cross-play, DE has already stated that they weren't going to be anywhere near this for a while, and its not really what I am advocating for anyway. It is something that should be looked at in the future for sure, but for now, cross-saving is where they should start.

It is possible that DE implements cross-saving between consoles strictly, because of the huge disparity in update times between PC and consoles. I believe this is a terrible idea, as i believe the points previously mentioned would suffer as a result. I also understand that perhaps PC is used as the "Guinea Pig" for updates, and so this may not be possible to fix for one reason or another. In this case, I would hope for maybe an opportunity to migrate a console account to PC. IMO however, a migration isn't enough long term. The player-base would benefit the most with a seamless system that allowed instant access and play across any platform, as to promote more play of the game with friends, and more play in general. This I believe, would serve to benefit more than people realize, after all, isn't this game supposed to be about all of us lifting together?

Thanks for reading!

[Atsia]

I mean sure. If you're also gonna be happy not having plat and Tennogen at the minimum cross between accounts. Maybe Rivens too.

 

[BloodKitten]

some limitations should apply, tennogen cannot transfer between platforms as i doubt any of the console company would be happy if you get paid items from thier competitors, PC tennogen requier a linked steam account and be purchesed via a direct transaction insted of platinum, platinum also cannot transfer over for the same reasons, the only thing you can transfer is non tennogen items, and non exclusives (console skins/ founder items)

[Swagernator22663]

Cross-save will never happened. Why ? Cause there will be no console player left on consoles.

[Shalath]

DE have said that they are looking into it but as above plat won't transfer, founder items will not transfer, Tennogen won't transfer and it is very likely that rivens won't either.

The console companies take a cut of plat sales so you can't be allowed to purchase plat on PC and spend on consoles as that deprives them of their cut. I don't really know how Tennogen work on consoles but as there is real money involved I'll bet there won't be a transfer ffor similar reasons.

The price difference for mods, primes and so on between PC and consoles is huge which is a big headache ffor DE if/when cross-save happens. Not transferring rivens is an obbvious solution but from what I've seen on the PS4 market from a friend who plays you could make an absolute killing buying primes/mods on PS4 and selling on PC.

[BrazilianJoe]

I have posted about cross-progress a few times already.

Platinum transfer and version differences are the major stumbling blocks. 

I think that to deal with different app versions, every asset will have a 'minimum_version' internal label.

On PC, the game version is almost always ahead. So, when an item is introduced to the player's inventory in the PC version, the console version of the game will ignore all items that have a 'minimum_version' greater than the console's game version.

If the player has a loadout made in PC that references a weapon, Warframe or pet/sentinel that has not yet been released, that will be replaced by the player's most used weapon of the same class, or most used frame/pet/sentinel. Cosmetics will not be loaded.

I don't see Tennogen sales as an issue if they are transferable, because on PC they are a separate purchase, so the value more or less maches the other platforms.

Platinum on PC has the discounts, that make it have a different value proposition from the other platforms in actual $$$.. 

My opinion is that the way to go is to make the platinum of each platform a different color. 

PC will be Silver Platinum

Switch is Red Platinum

XBOX is Green Platinum

PS4 is Blue Platinum.

This way, platinum of all platforms will be freely tradeable with every player.

Trades will have a big fat red warning that Platinum can traded freely, but can only be spent on their native platform. 

Trading platinum of other platforms will be useful for players to buy platform exclusive cosmetics, I will dig that.

DE should disclose the average trade value of platinum per platform for players to understand their exchange value. PC platinum will very likely be the one worth the least, because it's the most available one. 

 

[(PSN)I-TH3SH4D00W-I]

Hello
I've been hearing cross-game news for several months. I play warframe on ps4 and I am looking forward to transferring my data to PC because I have more than $ 500 invested in my account and I would be very sorry and sorry to lose all that money invested. I recently sold my console and I have switched to PC and I really hope that soon I will know more about whether it will be possible to transfer my data to PC in the end.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

On 2019-11-10 at 2:02 AM, Atsia said:

I mean sure. If you're also gonna be happy not having plat and Tennogen at the minimum cross between accounts. Maybe Rivens too.

 

If I think about it, I personally have more deluxe skins than anything else, so tennogen wouldn't hurt me as bad, but I understand that argument. Losing Plat would stink for sure, and having alot of it would really stink. I don't know, but for me, the costs are far less than the benefits for me personally.

[(PSN)Cournal_Rumble9]

Pls can we add this I want to play with my cousin but he is on pc and I made my account on PS4. Could we add cross save or even cross play.

Edited November 18, 2019 by (PS4)Cournal_Rumble9

[Oreades]

IMHO cross-save is even less plausible than cross-play because it gives people something that the platform holders NEVER want their captive audience to have, a way out. They're essentially Account Transfer Jr. 

[(XBOX)Artakka]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

IMHO cross-save is even less plausible than cross-play because it gives people something that the platform holders NEVER want their captive audience to have, a way out. They're essentially Account Transfer Jr. 

DE have already stated that on the contrary, cross-save is something they're looking into, while cross-play will not likely be seen for a much longer period of time.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

On 2019-11-10 at 7:12 AM, BrazilianJoe said:

I have posted about cross-progress a few times already.

Platinum transfer and version differences are the major stumbling blocks. 

I think that to deal with different app versions, every asset will have a 'minimum_version' internal label.

On PC, the game version is almost always ahead. So, when an item is introduced to the player's inventory in the PC version, the console version of the game will ignore all items that have a 'minimum_version' greater than the console's game version.

If the player has a loadout made in PC that references a weapon, Warframe or pet/sentinel that has not yet been released, that will be replaced by the player's most used weapon of the same class, or most used frame/pet/sentinel. Cosmetics will not be loaded.

I don't see Tennogen sales as an issue if they are transferable, because on PC they are a separate purchase, so the value more or less maches the other platforms.

Platinum on PC has the discounts, that make it have a different value proposition from the other platforms in actual $$$.. 

My opinion is that the way to go is to make the platinum of each platform a different color. 

PC will be Silver Platinum

Switch is Red Platinum

XBOX is Green Platinum

PS4 is Blue Platinum.

This way, platinum of all platforms will be freely tradeable with every player.

Trades will have a big fat red warning that Platinum can traded freely, but can only be spent on their native platform. 

Trading platinum of other platforms will be useful for players to buy platform exclusive cosmetics, I will dig that.

DE should disclose the average trade value of platinum per platform for players to understand their exchange value. PC platinum will very likely be the one worth the least, because it's the most available one. 

 

I like your ideas here, I agree that tennogen and loadouts and weapons you may have on one account and not others are all relatively easy problems to solve.

If I'm being quite honest, im not sure your platinum idea is good in practice. I say this because what if an xbox player wants to buy something from a PS4 player, do they still need a different kind of platinum?

I think adding platinum coupons to console would be the best way to solve that issue, that way platinum has a consistent value across all platforms (granted, this doesnt mean anyone's inventory would change, going foward all tennogen would likely cost actual $$$, while plat coupons existed).

[Oreades]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

DE have already stated that on the contrary, cross-save is something they're looking into, while cross-play will not likely be seen for a much longer period of time.

They can talk all they want, the technical issues aren't the problem. 

The problem is the exact same thing that keeps DE from just allowing account transfers all willy nilly and that is Sony, Microsoft and now Nintendo. 

I would honestly expect cross play to happen before the big three would ever allow Account Transfer Jr to be a thing, but who knows executives are stupid so maybe they won't notice that Cross save is functionally just Account Transfer Lite™ and give it the go ahead. 

[sam686]

Cross save will be more important when newer consoles will come out. This is the most likely time players might move to any platforms, and might complain the missing cross save or transfers.

PS5 release date: https://www.google.com/search?q=ps5+release+date

Xbox Scarlett release date: https://www.google.com/search?q=xbox+scarlett+release+date Xbox Scarlett might change name at or before release day.

Some cross save topics have come up months ago.
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1133716-cross-save-please/

[BrazilianJoe]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

I like your ideas here, I agree that tennogen and loadouts and weapons you may have on one account and not others are all relatively easy problems to solve.

If I'm being quite honest, im not sure your platinum idea is good in practice. I say this because what if an xbox player wants to buy something from a PS4 player, do they still need a different kind of platinum?

I think adding platinum coupons to console would be the best way to solve that issue, that way platinum has a consistent value across all platforms (granted, this doesnt mean anyone's inventory would change, going foward all tennogen would likely cost actual $$$, while plat coupons existed).

I used to think like that, but changed my mind. They will never introduce things like the 75% or even 50% discount on consoles, ever. Because Tennogen on consoles is bought with platinum, not real money, unlike the PC, and the creators get a fixed value per sale.

Normalizing platinum value in my opinion is exactly the undesired effect also as a means to preserve the game economy. 

Each store has a different "Real Dollar" value, and PC platinum is the one that sells more, but is worth less per platinum. 

Baselining through the lowest-common denominator (PC)  would make platinum on all consoles to devaluate and make it overall less profitable. 

Conversely, with console colored platinum trades, I would be able to farm red platinum and buy Tennogen on the switch, where currently I would have to buy with actual cash on PC, and this wouldn't harm the  tennogen author. 

[(XBOX)Artakka]

7 hours ago, Oreades said:

The problem is the exact same thing that keeps DE from just allowing account transfers all willy nilly and that is Sony, Microsoft and now Nintendo.

Yes but cross-save/play is something that is on it's way to being a norm. Many games now have allowed cross save to exist, and Sony is beginning to relent on the subject. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/mbmp4v/it-seems-true-cross-play-is-finally-coming-to-playstation-4

I believe Warframe would make a wise choice in pushing for cross-save, and many other games have done so and succeeded.

6 hours ago, BrazilianJoe said:

Conversely, with console colored platinum trades, I would be able to farm red platinum and buy Tennogen on the switch, where currently I would have to buy with actual cash on PC, and this wouldn't harm the  tennogen author. 

I guess I'm not really understanding what you're saying here, considering platinum isnt something you "farm for" unless you're stocking up on parts and selling them, which brings me to my previous question; What happens when a player from one platform wants to buy something from another? The value of platinum is not the same between the two platforms, can they just not trade? What if someone buys 250 red platinum but turns out they need green platinum? Do they then turn around and buy green? Seems unfair...

[BrazilianJoe]

My idea is that trading for platinum should be free and cross-platform. 

So, if I farm e.g. an Ember Prime Set, it will have a defined "Silver Platinum" value on PC. 

But, given that the Switch has a different player base, but overlapping, once the cross-saves become a reality, and a different amount of Red Platinum flowing around, the value for the same Ember Prime Set in "Red Platinum" will be different. Any platinum and item would be tradeable, as long as the item is already released on both platforms. Platinum can only be spent in the in-game shop of its native currency though. -Red Platinum can only be spent on the switch. 

So, if I can't afford a Tennogen on PC, I can still farm for Red Platinum, fire up my Switch, and use that Red Platinum to buy Tennogen there. 

From DE's and the Tennogen author's perspective, they will not lose anything (because there is no 75% discount on consoles) - the trade would have happened on a different platform, but they get the same profit. And the player base gets more active, which is also good. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by BrazilianJoe