The Resource Grind

[The.Mad.Doctor]

The resource grind for veterans is a problem. We've been playing this game for years, have all these resources that we've built up into the millions, and yet, new content always requires a new grind for resources. These new resources that get added are mostly from missions that as a new player, you'll be picking up by just playing the game, but as a veteran you have to go back and re-grind nodes that you've already picked up more than you'll ever need in resources. It really is unfair to all the veterans, with the amount of hours we've put into the game, Warframe just continues to demand us to grind for mundane things, that as a new player, you wouldn't feel the pressure of. I'm ok with adding new resources to new open worlds and new spaces (but please don't make everything require those resources for upgrading and crafting in the same area, have at least some overlap), because that's something new to experience, but having new resources pop up in places we've been a thousand times is just annoying. 

One of the main problems that I have with Empyrean is that we were told that we would be able to sink all of our old, unused resources into upgrading the railjack. However, in no way will we be able to throw our old resources (at least, not by themselves) into upgrading the railjack, not from what has been shown. Its always new resources, with every update, and its tiring when we were told that we'll be able to use our old resources for something new.

Because I know some people will say I'm burned out and that I need to take a break as some excuse for disregarding my whole argument. No, I'm not burnt out, I still very much enjoy playing the game, but that doesn't mean that I can't be upset about something.

Edit: Spelling and grammar

Edited December 8, 2019 by The.Mad.Doctor

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well, yeah. Because these same veterans tend to yell "DROUGHT!!!" otherwise. And man do they yell hard. Stockpiles shouldn't be a thing either. Resource tolls should go down, and players would just have to farm small quantities of resources every time a new thing is added.

Instead of that we have a vicious cycle of complaints cause by bandaid after bandaid, stupid decision after stupid decision, lazy move after lazy move. Instead of adressing the actual issue even if it demanded some adaptability from the players. Just like most most core gameplay changes demand, such as focus rework, new world additions, melee 3.0, etc, etc, etc.

[dingo-saurus]

It also just makes so little sense, narratively (in the lore and in the progression) to have to go back to old, familiar nodes to farm up new resources we've never had access to before. We weren't told where we were supposed to go, either, which isn't unusual for Warframe but does pull you out of the fiction and make it even stranger that we're having to return to places we've been a dozen times before to collect things we somehow missed in the last few years. Unless I missed dialogue from Cy indicating what/where these new resources were.

[The.Mad.Doctor]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Well, yeah. Because these same veterans tend to yell "DROUGHT!!!" otherwise. And man do they yell hard. Stockpiles shouldn't be a thing either. Resource tolls should go down, and players would just have to farm small quantities of resources every time a new thing is added.

Instead of that we have a vicious cycle of complaints cause by bandaid after bandaid, stupid decision after stupid decision, lazy move after lazy move. Instead of adressing the actual issue even if it demanded some adaptability from the players. Just like most most core gameplay changes demand, such as focus rework, new world additions, melee 3.0, etc, etc, etc.

I know I've at least never yelled about content drought, I know its there, but I'm usually ok with waiting. I definitely agree with a restructuring of the Warframe grind, what usually happens is on release, the grind is bad, so people complain, as they should, and DE nerfs the grind hard, after a lot of people have already put huge chunks of time into grinding.

[Uhkretor]

15 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

The resource grind for veterans is a problem.

Not for me, it isn't.

 

Its obvious that new stuff from new areas, considering PoE and Orb Vallis stuff and the relative requirements, requires new resources to build.

Railjack, and the upcoming half of Railjack's content, will be no different. But instead of only needing new stuff to research/build/complete, we'll be able to use out our trillion-worth of old resources that we're, apparently, stockpiling every mission... Also, new area = new resources. But if you think about it, nothing about those are new because you can collect those on Europa, Ceres, PoE and Orb Vallis... (I may be missing a few places and/or a couple of new resources coming with the upcoming content.)

 

We'll just have to wait to see what's really coming, and how its going to be interacted by/with us..

[The.Mad.Doctor]

9 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Not for me, it isn't.

 

Its obvious that new stuff from new areas, considering PoE and Orb Vallis stuff and the relative requirements, requires new resources to build.

Railjack, and the upcoming half of Railjack's content, will be no different. But instead of only needing new stuff to research/build/complete, we'll be able to use out our trillion-worth of old resources that we're, apparently, stockpiling every mission... Also, new area = new resources. But if you think about it, nothing about those are new because you can collect those on Europa, Ceres, PoE and Orb Vallis... (I may be missing a few places and/or a couple of new resources coming with the upcoming content.)

 

We'll just have to wait to see what's really coming, and how its going to be interacted by/with us..

I thought about that, but when they showed railjack to us in the last devstream, I didn't really see where we would sink our resources into. So unless there's some other part of railjack that has this resource sink, then we'll be grinding whole new resources for something we were told we wouldn't.

Edited December 8, 2019 by The.Mad.Doctor

[kapn655321]

I would love to be able to convert my resources into alloy and composite textiles for trade at open world/Maroo.
15 million nano spores is what I have after donating millions more to my dojo for no reason.
I've seen innovation towards this, but then we had, "Blueprint-ception" in our foundry after Fortuna as a result.
An attempt was made to see how to test the waters on these functions.

I want to horadric cube these things, and race to Zero.
We also saw something like this in mind with Exceptional Cores.
If I could mash down all my nano spores, combine them with fieldron samples or something,
to make a component like... a fabric/sheeting/plating to barter at open worlds, or for other resources..
To convert them into a bulk material worth little, but helpful if you have it.

Here's a question for us:
How would we divvy up the resources, and what would we find sensible to trade them for?
What+what+what = what worth or purpose.
Cosmetics? Standing? Resource barter?

Maybe 5000 nano spores, 600 plastids... whatever the amounts.
If something took 5k nano spores to make, I could make 3k of whatever it is.
What thing would be reasonable for me to have that many of?
Or what exchange rate?

Someone out there will have a good solution.
I'm just brainstorming. 😃

Some brilliant veteran player/ economics grad.

Edited December 8, 2019 by kapn655321

[The.Mad.Doctor]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

I would love to be able to convert my resources into alloy and composite textiles for trade at open world/Maroo.
15 million nano spores is what I have after donating millions more to my dojo for no reason.
I've seen innovation towards this, but then we had, "Blueprint-ception" in our foundry after Fortuna as a result.
An attempt was made to see how to test the waters on these functions.

I want to horadric cube these things, and race to Zero.
We also saw something like this in mind with Exceptional Cores.
If I could mash down all my nano spores, combine them with fieldron samples or something,
to make a component like... a fabric/sheeting/plating to barter at open worlds, or for other resources.
Just a bulk material worth little, but helpful if you have it.

Here's a question for us:
How would we divvy up the resources, and what would we find sensible to trade them for?
What+what+what = what worth or purpose.
Cosmetics? Standing? Resource barter?

Maybe 5000 nano spores, 600 plastids... whatever the amounts.
If something took 5k nano spores to make, I could make 3k of whatever it is.
What thing would be reasonable for me to have that many of?
Or what exchange rate?

Someone out there will have a good solution.
I'm just brainstorming. 😃
 

Being able to trade in old resources for new ones sounds like a godsend, but I'm not sure DE would ever implement something like this, because it would cut down the grind, and grind is content apparently. 

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

because it would cut down the grind,

If that's the trouble, then perhaps cosmetics or consumables would be the way to go.
Standing could also be an option.

Having an optional use is certainly better than none.

I'm still hanging onto Void Offerings from the Bursa Event, and Nakak Pearls..
I would adore if these no longer valid resources could be given a reason.

Working for a chef once, they explained that to maintain the budget in the kitchen,
"No ingredient can be bought without having at least 2 dishes to use it in."
I feel that simple wisdom applies here.
 

Edited December 8, 2019 by kapn655321

[The.Mad.Doctor]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

If that's the trouble, then perhaps cosmetics or consumables would be the way to go.
Standing could also be an option.

Having an optional use is certainly better than none.

I'm still hanging onto Void Offerings from the Bursa Event, and Nakak Pearls..
I would adore if these no longer valid resources could be given a reason.

Working for a chef once, they explained that to maintain the budget in the kitchen,
"No ingredient can be bought without having at least 2 dishes to use it in."
I feel that simple wisdom applies here.
 

Sorry, I was just being sarcastic about that. I definitely think that it would be a good idea to allow us to trade in old resources for new ones. Using it for cosmetics just doesn't sound right to me unless we're talking about decorations. 

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

trade in old resources for new ones

You're all good.
So long as they can strike a balance they're comfortable with.
Best place to start is by suggesting a whole balance that we're comfortable with,
so they have a basis for where our heads are at, and have the chance to appreciate our efforts and input.
Not saying we get what we suggest, but it will likely help ballpark the end result, if there's to be one ahead.


If I could trade these things for fireworks, I would still be cool with it,
but if they're looking for something with more long term utility, resources would be appreciated across the board.
The tricky bit is... how to balance what resources need what amount of gating.
In a perfect world, No resource would be totally beyond trading or crafting towards,
so long as it's exhaustive enough that DE would consider it worth it.

Like.. lets say for whatever reason, you just COULD NOT farm Toroids.
Not a great example, but a placeholder.
If you could essentially front load the lore equivalency of what it would cost to pay the people of Fortuna to do it,
even at a steep premium, you would have a work around. Might take you a year to fund, but that's one year less
you cannot access that content.

Better example, To get better amps you need to kill the Eidolons.
To kill the Eidolons.. you need better amps.
If you could trade the quills an absolute Mountain of things they could use,
a deal could be struck.

I use this example because I only JUST got to rank 3 in the quills last month with help.
I've been here the whole time since launch, but that mission was so utterly unfit for my
playstyle, that I could not/would not engage. It's been since October 2017.
For the sake of these potential oversights to be mitigated long term, I would have gladly
bought everyone in the Quills a house for some friggin' amp parts. 😉

[kapn655321]

24 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

Using it for cosmetics just doesn't sound right to me unless we're talking about decorations.

Decorations is more what I had in mind.

Like, if I got an absolute ton of Cetus standing, I'd just be buying fruit baskets and sign posts anyways.
Something I'd love to have all around my dojo and orbiter, but really haven't been able to bother with.

Heck, Old Man Sumbaat has Nano Spores on his table.
If that's a currency he trades in, could I donate an amount of them each day/week to help build just his business?
The Unum gives itself to the people of Cetus, and I might like to do the same to help bolster them economically against the Grineer.
What about with Perrin, too? They deal in infested technologies.

Even the Corpus or Grineer.
The downfall of the viking berserkers wasn't a better army, it was Dutch currency.
Perhaps strike some semblance of a peace agreement in time, if there's to be a War.
..'cause if there's a war in a game, I will always seek diplomatic mechanics. (like invasions, but military industrial complex style.)

Edited December 8, 2019 by kapn655321

[Grahark]

This is the problem I have run into with the "MMO" market these days. Every new thing that is introduced comes with a new resource to grind. It becomes rather tedious to look in an inventory, whether a paid unlimited or even free, to see all these unused and piling up old resources. The smart move is just to simply take these old resources and re-use them but at higher quantities. 

We don't need WF becoming a spreadsheet simulator instead of space ninjas. 

[kapn655321]

2 minutes ago, Grahark said:

Every new thing that is introduced comes with a new resource to grind.

That also is an inextricable part of the development costs.

If we don't have new twinkly shinies and new methods of getting them,
the player influx needed to pay off that work just won't come.
It's as unfortunate for us as it is DE, that it's a necessary evil.

..but that's for the launch of that thing.
If say, a few years later when they're not in the weeds,
they can retool it to integrate into everything else fluidly,
then it will have been worth it.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but I'd rather have resource bloat than no future for Warframe.

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't see this as a problem.

If they just used the old resources we already have stockpiled, it would trivialize a lot of the content, and then we'd be here on the forums complaining that we have no content because of how quickly we burned through it.

To be fair, we do that anyways, I guess...

Personally, I like having new stuff to work with.

[The.Mad.Doctor]

5 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I don't see this as a problem.

If they just used the old resources we already have stockpiled, it would trivialize a lot of the content, and then we'd be here on the forums complaining that we have no content because of how quickly we burned through it.

To be fair, we do that anyways, I guess...

Personally, I like having new stuff to work with.

I disagree, but only because if they make it so we can use old resources for newer content, then there should be a rework to grind in general. It just feels like we're super rich with nothing to spend money on.

[DrakeWurrum]

12 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

I disagree, but only because if they make it so we can use old resources for newer content, then there should be a rework to grind in general. It just feels like we're super rich with nothing to spend money on.

They do include the older resources a lot, too, actually. We just get it faster than they can put out new stuff to spend it on.

Empyrean is using some resources that's exclusive to it, sure, but... it's not like we don't use older resources at all. I run out of pizza plates all the time!

Edited December 8, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[The.Mad.Doctor]

1 minute ago, DrakeWurrum said:

They do include the older resources a lot, too, actually. We just get it faster than they can put out new stuff to spend it on.

In general, I think at the very least, they could add more things then for us to spend these resources on, even if they don't effect the story or progression.

[DrakeWurrum]

4 minutes ago, The.Mad.Doctor said:

In general, I think at the very least, they could add more things then for us to spend these resources on, even if they don't effect the story or progression.

I run out of Nano Spores and Ferrite all the time just to keep my Gear Restore and Ciphers stocked. I'm also personally NOT a fan of Excavation missions, so I actually have very little Cryotic (apparently unlike most other veterans) - I still don't have the Sibear. There are some resources that I never seem to run out of, but there's others that I do all the time. So I think what we have is working well enough. I'm not sure we're at a state where the resource economy needs shifting.

Except for Mutagen Samples. That Hema research is still a problem.

Edited December 8, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[kapn655321]

6 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

run out of Nano Spores and Ferrite all the time just to keep my Gear Restore and Ciphers stocked.

After a while though, you may pull ahead of those, too.
Like, I keep 120-130 restores and ciphers on me at all times.
I also have actual multi-millions of left over resource.

[The.Mad.Doctor]

11 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

After a while though, you may pull ahead of those, too.
Like, I keep 120-130 restores and ciphers on me at all times.
I also have actual multi-millions of left over resource.

Yeah, I've got over 1000 of each of the Restore pizzas and ciphers, but I've still got resources pouring out of my inventory. I spend resources of things I don't need all the time, donate millions to the dojo, and still, I have more than I could ever really know what to do with.

Edited December 9, 2019 by The.Mad.Doctor

[DerGreif2]

How about spending about 1 mil nano spors for some kind of a nano spor farm that gives you 10.000 spors every 8 hours? I kind of like the ideas of farm and when railjack launches we have enough place for Farms 🙂

Edited December 10, 2019 by DerGreif2

[Miyabi-sama]

If they want to timegate things so much let us have a decently lengthy time crafted resources via adding new blueprints. I.e. Ferroxium, Rubedo Alloys, Cryogallium, Nanocircuitry, Polymere Alloys etc.

Time gated, less grindy resource sink.

And yet I don't see much problems with farming new stuff as it includes actual playing the game. Keeps me motivated. And current state of things allows you to do multiple things simultaneously, like lich hunt + resources + affinity + shooting stuff and be awesome.

[The.Mad.Doctor]

On 2019-12-10 at 2:26 AM, Miyabi-sama said:

If they want to timegate things so much let us have a decently lengthy time crafted resources via adding new blueprints. I.e. Ferroxium, Rubedo Alloys, Cryogallium, Nanocircuitry, Polymere Alloys etc.

Time gated, less grindy resource sink.

And yet I don't see much problems with farming new stuff as it includes actual playing the game. Keeps me motivated. And current state of things allows you to do multiple things simultaneously, like lich hunt + resources + affinity + shooting stuff and be awesome.

I really like this idea, it would mean that we'd still have to wait, but we would be able to put our time into things other than grinding, like actually playing the expansion how we might want to play it.

[Xzorn]

That's how long term RPG-style games work these days sadly and it's mostly the result of players not needing to replace lost, worn or stolen gear.

Players don't like to lose their gear of course. No one does but is leads to inevitable economic saturation so new items and resources must be introduced. It's less obvious in other MMO's because they also disguise it behind a level cap increase or similar. It's not an entirely hopeless situation though. It can be mitigated to a degree.

I'm sure everyone loved Ticker when Fortuna came out for instance.

I had a similar idea a while back for Kuva Extractors. They worked like Resource extractors but had a limited uses and cost a solid amount of resources to craft. Given the RNG nature of Rivens the economic impact of such a resource dump would be minimal and give players a sense of value in their 20 million Alloy Plate.