SilentMobius Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2019-12-26 at 2:37 AM, S.T.M.P.D said: But, yeah, every time this sort of thread pops up people rag on PvP as inherently not able to function in Warframe instead of getting down into the weeds of why it doesn’t work. Let’s try to do better, yeah? It's pretty simple, people have gathered playing warframe at least in part because of a lack of PvP here. There are a significant amount of people who like unique Sci-Fi co-op looter shooters who not not want PvP, at all. Enough that any attempt to shoehorn PvP into any progression related game loop will cause screaming blue murder because they don't want PvP nor PvP people accumulating in warframe the way they do in D2. That and the obvious technical problem that DE development style is inherently evolutionary where there is one fitness function that they fight against "Speed of completion of PvE content" which cannot result in a level playing field for competitive gaming, short of dedicated "PvP staff" playing constant soul-draining catch up (as they were, for a long time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)BlitzKeir Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Someone's probably said this already, but I'll toss it out. DE has been working on the new Dark Sector system off-and-on for a few years. Shortly before POE, they said that when it comes back, PvP will not be the focus (but admitted they weren't prepared to give a hard "no" on PvP). Instead, it will focus on community cooperation (across clans and alliances), with multiple ways to contribute. Scott provided examples. Different mission types would cater to different playstyle preferences. One phase of the operation might emphasize stealth and navigation. Another might emphasize full-frontal combat. The goal is to get people working together beyond the current mission. I suspect Squad Link will play a role in this. Some time after POE, Scott said that he had a working model for the new Dark Sectors running in the dev build, but was unhappy with it. Quote: "Right now it's basically an RTS. We want it to be RTS Lite." Since then, nothing has been said. When asked on stream, they share uncomfortable looks and mumble some placations. I have a theory. It's been kicking around in my head since before Sacrifice, but that quest convinced me I was right. I believe the new Dark Sector system will be a community-wide raid event wherein we repel Sentient incursions into the Origin System. It will have multiple semi-concurrent phases (rather than the global phases we see in similar systems). It will feature clan/alliance rewards, as well as personal rewards, all based on the ways in which members contributed. It will culminate in a full-on Sentient raid boss which will be fought in AW/RJ. Think JV, but cooler and less buggy. This is just a theory based on the available evidence. But after seeing all the promo material at TennoCon 2019, I'm very confident in my prediction. However, if we are given the option to kill or spare the Lotus, it would make a great justification for community-wide PvP. You would join a faction (Loyalists vs Sovereigns) based on your decision. Dark Sectors' legendary toxicity could be avoided with some changes to Battle Pay and how nodes are held. Personally, I'd love to see how DE would implement revised Dark Sector PvP with all they've learned since armistice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kartumterek Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 cant blame it all on DE this time. Dark Sectors went off the rails due to gross greed on the part of the playerbase. Once the scandal was out on how to mix/max clans/alliances held the rest of the playerbase hostage. Companies like DE cant anticipate the sheer dbaggery that playmodes like PVP enable. Guessing it became way too much of a hassle to try and fix on the fly so they cut the rope on it. thats on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 hours ago, HugintheCrow said: So you like railjack, and your point is? You're not telling "da truff". You're expressing your personal opinion. Which would be fine on it's own, but you keep trying to look like some sort of respectable authority. Hint: You're not a respectable authority, you're a rando on the internet. Vulari is experienced with every aspect this game has to offer. From PvE to PvP, from clan politics to cornering the market. He has done it all. I'd trust his opinion on Solar Rails and Railjack a lot more than I would trust a rando on the internet. 17 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Vulari said: If you want armistice to end. Then change the mindset of the casuals who will never reach endgame but feel they have a right to dictate it's outcome When Vulari said this, he spoke on an unfortunate truth that has plagued Warframe since the beginning. People who are incapable of participating in the endgame content because they aren't skilled or knowledgeable enough to do so genuinely have the innate urge to complain about the endgame content and ruin it for others. People complained about Liches costing them a revive, so they lowered the difficulty to where he just laughs at you and leaves. People complained about the speed of enemy fighters in Railjack because they weren't skilled enough to hit or geared enough to kill them when they did manage to hit the fighters. People complained that the tenebrous was too hard to get and DE made it so players can just purchase it from a store. They removed Solar Rails because people complained about endgame players owning the nodes. Instead of complaining, maybe they should have geared up and fought them off the nodes. So, in conclusion... People who are not ready for endgame content have no right to comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)CFE Vulari Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: People who are not ready for endgame content have no right to comment on it. We watered down warframe to cater to the casuals long enough. None of these players who are complaining about PvP care if #warframe succeeds or not. They just want a game mode that they are not skilled enough to play, to not exist, so as to not feel like a loser in the game they claim to main. I am in no way saying that conclave is good. As the founder of CFE, who holds the highest player kill count to date, I can, with some confidence, say that conclave is trash. Hasn't been good since before the zaw update. Now with the telos boltas and the Kuva bow, we are looking at dojo duels on conclave maps. Which is an example of DE catering to casuals at the cost of their vets. We enjoyed conclave and had a decent community on xbox, but so many melee casuals complained and now we have the same two buttons for every combo. We have auto block. And we got AoE procs that should have never touched conclave. These PvE players saying No to PvP have no real recourse. Just want to cripple an already fading game. If y'all get your way it will just be the same six PvE players sitting in the dark playing solo missions muttering "red rum, red rum" over and over to themselves . End armistice. Ignore the hardline "murder pvp" players. There are enough content creators and dedicated veterans who will put the time and effort into helping find SOLUTIONS to issues rather than just trying to bury it. You want to make them happy at the same time? Take conclave back to 1.0. MR lock it. Then they can say they've killed a pvp gamemode and we can focus on what's important. Territory conquest game modes. Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)CFE Vulari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)CFE Vulari Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: Vulari is experienced with every aspect this game has to offer. From PvE to PvP, from clan politics to cornering the market. He has done it all. I'd trust his opinion on Solar Rails and Railjack a lot more than I would trust a rando on the internet. Thank you Repo. I remember fighting on a solar rail with you. Badly out numbered, 10% left on our core, 0 lives left. Enemy charging down the hall to finish the run. Repo is standing on the other side of the wall. As they level with him he Mag pulls at the wall and you watch bodies rag doll. Pop of a vectis and Hitsquad driver takes a L. Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugintheCrow Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: Vulari is experienced with every aspect this game has to offer. From PvE to PvP, from clan politics to cornering the market. He has done it all. I'd trust his opinion on Solar Rails and Railjack a lot more than I would trust a rando on the internet. "This guy is my circlejerk buddy, we love hating on the dreaded cAsuLS." Cool, I don't care you're friends. Appeal to imaginary authority is and will always be a very low tier of strawmanning. I don't care who you are. I don't care who your friendo is. I don't care about "clan politics" (Actually made me laugh! There is no such thing as clan "politics", lol. You realize this is a video game, right?). Stop making yourselves look like the victims here. You are the CULPRITS, not victims. It's the toxicity of the big clans and circlejerks that caused this. You did it to yourselves. You deserved it. The bottom line is: Chill out with you "we so hardcore" elitism, stop blaming every single thing on "muh casuals", accept your own faults... and maybe there will be some reason to bring back pvp modes into the game. Armistice went into effect because toxic, salty "pvp-mains" such as you and your buddy started overdosing on bullS#&$. DDOS attacks, literally hacking, abusing glitches and insanely overpowered strategies... of course DE had to put a full stop to it. And they did. Good on them. Bad on YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 20 hours ago, Kartumterek said: cant blame it all on DE this time. Dark Sectors went off the rails due to gross greed on the part of the playerbase. Once the scandal was out on how to mix/max clans/alliances held the rest of the playerbase hostage. Companies like DE cant anticipate the sheer dbaggery that playmodes like PVP enable. Guessing it became way too much of a hassle to try and fix on the fly so they cut the rope on it. thats on us. I don't think anybody wants the Solar Rail Conflicts to come back exactly as they were. There is certainly room for improvement in the old system. Hopefully DE can bring them back with the necessary changes to make them better than what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kartumterek Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 whether they can be effective in the play node or not...if they are able to access it then they have a right to it. everyone was a nub once and everyone has been carried at some point. to be honest a lot of times its better playing with newer players cause they arent so set in their ways and at least listen to others a bit more. theres the 4 revive thing for a reason. its far better for a newer player to get waxed out of a node and realize that maybe this is to much for me right now/hard gearcheck whatever than to be endlessly bashed cause they dont have X amount of hours or kills on a weapon. Profile doesnt show a players intuition or PC stats or connection status or any number of other factors that are/arent in your control that make you appear at times as both Godly and freaking nubcake Solar rails brought out way too much "bad" out of the playerbase and all of it centralized to a few nodes that happened to affect a significant portion of progression. Thats not on DE to control or monitor thats on us. When players get called out on this type of thing they like to deflect and then its just the im having fun/dude chill out its just a game excuse train. We are supposed to be Tenno. Act like it (Moderate your inner Dbaggery with some not so Dbaggery things) The playerbase as a whole needs to mea culpa on this one. otherwise let it stay dead and useless. you cut off gangrenous parts you dont try to heal them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Chroma Prime Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 2020-02-06 at 2:20 AM, (XB1)CFE Vulari said: If you want armistice to end. Then change the mindset of the casuals who will never reach endgame but feel they have a right to dictate it's outcome. Are you even allowed to say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterJ93 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I only want it to end only for me to experience it once. Just once. Then it can go burn in Vey Hek's dungeon, I don't care. (Also I just want to have all of the Orokin Lab stuff completed because the completionist in me demands it.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)CFE Vulari Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 4 hours ago, (XB1)Chroma Prime said: Are you even allowed to say this? No. But I'm a rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 10 hours ago, (NSW)MasterJ93 said: I only want it to end only for me to experience it once. Just once. Then it can go burn in Vey Hek's dungeon, I don't care. (Also I just want to have all of the Orokin Lab stuff completed because the completionist in me demands it.) If you experience it once, youll be hooked for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 16 hours ago, (XB1)Chroma Prime said: Are you even allowed to say this? I don't think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sdaly96 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 16 hours ago, (NSW)MasterJ93 said: (Also I just want to have all of the Orokin Lab stuff completed because the completionist in me demands it.) So many people share this very same s sentiment, many don't even know what the research was for as they weren't around for the conflicts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheLastDax Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 On 2020-02-06 at 2:20 AM, (XB1)CFE Vulari said: As you have never fought on a solar rail, allow me to describe it. Tens of thousands of tenno vrs tens of thousands of other tenno in an all out objective based pvp game mode. Which could last up to 11 hrs. No other game as attempted this before or since. A true test of the power of your community. CFE which is a storm clan, had 10x the amount of player kills than any other clan on warframe regardless of their platform. Rails were determined by how much you wanted it, and how many credits your alliance could bring to the table. I hear talk of 100% taxes on PC rails. Although this NEVER happened on xbox I'd like to respond to the rumor. The ICE alliance on PC only put 100% taxes to spur gamers into fighting them. As The Order did on xbox. Where we rise to the challenge, PC clans did not. It took us three months to rid ourselves of high taxes, PC needed an armistice to solve their issue. If you want armistice to end. Then change the mindset of the casuals who will never reach endgame but feel they have a right to dictate it's outcome. It really do be like that tho. Rails took effort and hard work but the rewards were well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 hours ago, (XB1)WuhanMeat SP said: It really do be like that tho. Rails took effort and hard work but the rewards were well worth it. That's exactly what I have been saying. Dark Sectors were the DEFINITIVE endgame experience. It tied in every aspect of Warframe. Social, mechanical, political, tactical, trading, everything mattered during the Dark Sector Conflicts. The game felt alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Personally moments like this were fun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: Personally moments like this were fun Wow, that video brings back so much nostalgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: Wow, that video brings back so much nostalgia. Honestly a specter nerf and a touch up to movement in pvp like possibly adding stamina in it could help bring pvp back and make it fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 5 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: Honestly a specter nerf and a touch up to movement in pvp like possibly adding stamina in it could help bring pvp back and make it fun Why do you bring up a specter nerf? Those were alright. Actually, they were one of the few AIs in gaming that I enjoyed fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: Why do you bring up a specter nerf? Those were alright. Actually, they were one of the few AIs in gaming that I enjoyed fighting. Specters would.be op in pvp and welll. We're. Nerfing them in pvp and allowing them to be balanced separately if they were to bring back a similar mode would be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: Specters would.be op in pvp and welll. We're. Nerfing them in pvp and allowing them to be balanced separately if they were to bring back a similar mode would be fair oh? You are asking for a new PvP mode with specters in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acersecomic Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Any kind of inter-player competition results in a lot of toxic and foul play, exploitation of bugs and glitches and general lack of sportsmanship. Even PVE oriented things with leaderboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 3 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said: oh? You are asking for a new PvP mode with specters in it? Not really solar rails but more balanced specters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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