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(PS4)I_I_Hope_I_I

Why does Warframe have so much out of order Lore and Content ?

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On 2019-12-24 at 8:24 PM, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

It's the DEMandela Effect

You don't remember this stuff the right way. Ember has always shot meteorites as her 4th. Warframes have always had assassin's Creed blade play. Blink has been universal....whatcha mean Itzal had that as an unique power?

It happens more than not in modern storytelling. Spider man shoots organic webs and talks to insects. Captain America is a Nazi. Superman and Wonder Woman date cuz they are both strong.

I used to chock it up to the Orokin attempting to change the history and origin of Warframes so they could claim they created them....but I find my interest is dying thanks to too many DEMandela Effects. Just hoping this does not go the way of Star Wars....had a promising story lore

 

I don't think I can forgive you for missing "ManDEla effect", my day is ruined now.

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On 2019-12-24 at 10:26 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Everyone knows Base/Tenno versions of frames were designed first, and then their statistically superior Prime counterparts with shiny bits were introduced later to create a demand for revenue.

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the argument I made that put pretty solid evidence as the base frames being designed first and then followed up with the Prime variants. In lore. Contrary to the Prime Access extolling them as "Orokin Originals."

Also OP, you forgot the fact that canonically speaking, the entirety of events on Jupiter's Gas City tileset only occurred AFTER the Sacrifice / Chimera quests. Because they all have Amalgams. Who weren't created until a Sentinent Mimic made a deal with Alad. Sentient Mimics were not present in the Origin System until the Sacrifice Quest. What's even more confusing, however, is that DE acknowledges this. As a result, Amalgams are not present in the Jupiter Alad V Assassinate node. Nor are there the secret labs on that node. That one node, one of the very last of Jupiter's nodes, canonically occurs before all the others. It's maddening. Hotfix 25.0.3: "Removed Amalgams spawning on Jupiter > Themisto due to narrative/lore confusion."

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14 hours ago, Twilight-Knight said:

 

the game was so futuristic and fantastic

DE are Orokin of this dimension

 

On the first point I agree, but I do not feel that it is, or has become, any the less so.

It IS very FUTURISTIC. And it is FANTASTICAL. 

There is a distinction in that. A futuristic motif says nothing about where & when something stylized in such a way is supposed to be occurring.

In “Sci Fi,” the common assumptions that frame the “where” and “when,” customarily assume either a direct or indirect relationship to the present “contingent world” (if the “Sci Fi” is not already established or presumed to be taking place in “the present” or “present era”):

In the Future, X = 1(0000000000) Number of years from NOW, HERE on Earth.

In the Past, that is so distant as to predate all existent historical evidence, of Earth, here, now.

Perhaps One or the Other of either of those, but we’re not gonna tell you any more than that it is either one or the other.

An alternate or parallel “world/reality/dimension.” It is related to Earth, here, now, but indirectly. That is because familiarity with the present, “contingent world” is the baseline being used to contrast what is different about the world that is being presented in the Fictional Context. It is a “parallel” of, or “alternative” to the “contingent world,” by virtue differing from, while presuming to be no different from Earth as it exists, here, now.
 

So for a fictional “world” to be just “Sci Fi” and in “The Future,” ties it to a direct relation to the actual present. 
 

Even for the Sci Fi fiction forms that predate the “new media,” creating a predictive (or “speculative”) world context is more difficult that ever to accomplish believably, (in a way that is capable of supporting a suspension of disbelief), within even just the easiest, limited span of a single work or story.

The ULTIMATE reason that an ongoing Future Outer Space Sci Fi Game World would fail, is the one that can never be articulated.
 

That “the future” is already ten years ago.

That the studies of science have already disproven premises or assumptions which speculation will rely upon.

 That the state of involvement in and reliance upon the technological applications of scientific knowledge has already long since surpassed the capacity of human kind to differentiate itself from what it has invented, and is inventing.

And that it is the devices of those self-same inventions that are going to be used represent that fictional “Future.”

THAT is the unspoken adversary that “shot down” every effort made by Steve Sinclair and the dwindling remains of DE  to gain the support, interest, or even attention of Production Companies, while trying to pitch the “concept” (gestalt) for a new “Sci Fi” game, IN SPACE. 

Those are the reasons which never even had to be brought up, as it would be sufficient enough to predict the demise based on an incapacity to sustain requisite amounts to feed the always-growing consumer demand for more “content.” 

But the “content” of pretty much ALL “Sci Fi” media has long since exceeded the capacity to get new or old audiences hooked, high or higher, by inventing another wondrous future science sounding name for another future science looking super power pill, that makes everything defeat everything that had been invented by taking the last super pill, obsolete and ineffective against it. before it, and only needing a few words and a couple of pictures to do it with.

“The Sentients had won.

They had turned our weapons, our technology, against us.

The more advanced we became, the greater our losses.

The war was over unless we found a new way.”

 

”They” were right. Trying to develop a Future Sci Fi Space Fiction, that is emergent from “The World Of Tomorrow, which TODAY, was already Ten Years Ago, Yesterday” is instantly unsustainable. “Science Fiction” (Fantasy) “Technologies” are nothing more than “Technomancy.”

The so-called “Sci Fi” amounts to putting high-tech sounding names, and covering scenery with greebles and kitbashing from RC Models and Toys, and saying that the “Sword & Sorcery” Magic of a prehistoric past is the “Science & Technology Mastery” of some equally inconceivably distant “Future.”

A GAME does have to have RULES. Fiction can “break” the rules of “nature,” (or “natural law,” or the “laws of physics”), but can only get away with doing it by recognizing them first. That is a big problem for Sci Fi Future scenarios. The more that is discovered by “science,” of those laws, and how they work, the bigger the questions and uncertainties are that emerge from resolving an answer with certainty. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map–territory_relation

Games, and all “media,” have only ever been successful in representing how things work. The map of a territory can only represent it, without becoming it. The representation of what things are, and how they work, is always smaller and simpler than what is being represented. 


But WTF was wrong with those bonehead “Production Companies?”

It’s a completely ambiguous sort of “Sci Fi.”

There is no story here, just inferences.

It’s a stylistic “framework.”

There is no literal time or place where this is supposed to be happening.

It’s about tone, environment, feel, vibe, a rich imaginative potentiality to do any/all sorts of things (that nobody has ever done or tried before) with.

How does it happen that going to work for a game company disconnects these super sentient know-it-alls from being able to dream when they go to bed at night? 

How can they lose the wonder and amazement of experiencing an impossible universe, knowing the world as it has never been, coming from knowledge and history of things that never existed or happened, seeing everything never seen before but still somehow knowing what it is, always only when their eyes are closed?

Historically, humans have done a pretty good job of inverting the import of dreams. The binary, either or tendency, either make dreams all important to “follow,” or to “ignore.” But the sentient reasoning of conscious living expels the “reality” of dreams either way. 

(Well ... F THEM, or die for the cause.)

 

“In our desperation we turned to the Void.

The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed.

We took the twisted few that had returned from that place.

We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction.

Gave them the weapons of the old ways.

Gun and blade.

A new warrior, a new code was born.

These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors.

Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend.”

 

Who is the enemy?
What is it?

“The Tenno are descendants of an ancient and mystical civilization of lost warriors from the Orokin era on Earth. Preserved in cryopods for centuries, the Tenno now awaken to a new war, fighting and resisting warring factions as the sole bearers of the Orokin-created Warframes. While the memories of the Tenno have faded over time, their mastery of guns, blades, and Warframe exo-armor has not. 

Fragments of history suggest that discipline and chivalry are the cornerstone values of the Tenno: is this true today? The Tenno are emerging into a world unfamiliar to them.

One sees a noble warrior, building his strength against an oppressive regime.

Another sees an opportunistic mercenary, exploiting the Warframe's superiority for wealth.

Regardless of their future, the Tenno stand united against a common foe, loyal only to each other.”


The enemy, is always the same. 

The present mode of representing the Ego as a necessarily bound “Enemy” of the Self, is largely a conceptual reorientation, which accepts a differentiation between two aspects formed by a single (individual) intersection of perceptual modes. (The relationships are conceptual, and representational, rather than being characterized as something literal).

It is a reorientation of Freudian psychoanalytical theory, which essentially bypasses Carl Jungs departure.

And that departure is something which Warframe is, perhaps, most reliant upon for governing how the “environment” is constructed, and the “rules” for how “content” presents itself.*

So if it is considered to be “content” that states:

”Environments are invisible. Their ground rules, pervasive structures, and overall patterns elude easy perception.”

The then the “environment” which yields that “content” could be stated as:

“Environments are not passive wrappings, but are, rather, active processes which are invisible. The groundrules, pervasive structure, and over-all patterns of environments elude easy perception.”

* (the rule of thumb for “media” not withstanding: If there is any “hard” law of media, it is that a medium will produce content that is consistent with its limits. So, now, the visual “content” presentation of Warframe exceeds the rendering limits of 32-bit operating systems and DirectX 9.)

The break Jung made from Freud was responsible for the modern development and contemporary understanding of “Archetypes,” (among which “The Shadow,” as a Primordial Archetype assumes a conceptual space which is largely analogous to the modern reinterpretation of The Ego).

[The concept of psychological archetypes was advanced by the Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, c. 1919.]

Jung acknowledged that his conceptualization of archetype is influenced by Plato's eidos, which he described as "the formulated meaning of a primordial image by which it was represented symbolically." 

According to Jung, the term archetype is an explanatory paraphrase of the Platonic eidos, also believed to represent the word "form". 

He maintained that Platonic archetypes are metaphysical ideas, paradigms or models and that real things are held to be only copies of these model ideas. However, archetypes are not easily recognizable in Plato's works in the way in which Jung meant them.

In Jung's psychological framework, archetypes are innate, universal prototypes for ideas and may be used to interpret observations. A group of memories and interpretations associated with an archetype is a complex ( e.g. a mother complex associated with the mother archetype). Jung treated the archetypes as psychological organs, analogous to physical ones in that both are morphological constructs that arose through evolution. (At the same time, it has also been observed that evolution can itself be considered an archetypal construct.)

Jung states in part one of Man And His Symbols that:

“My views about the 'archaic remnants', which I call 'archetypes' or 'primordial images,' have been constantly criticized by people who lack sufficient knowledge of the psychology of dreams and of mythology. The term 'archetype' is often misunderstood as meaning certain definite mythological images or motifs, but these are nothing more than conscious representations. Such variable representations cannot be inherited. The archetype is a tendency to form such representations of a motif—representations that can vary a great deal in detail without losing their basic pattern.”

One could say (quite easily) that Warframes are MechArchetypes.

How to avert becoming too wrapped up in taking things too seriously ... Thank the Void for “Meta” ... and the quirky doppelgänger of the Operator proxies we get to make as self representatives in Warframe ... always engaged in doing something “meaningless.”

 

In Jungian psychology, the "shadow", "Id", or "shadow aspect/archetype" may refer to

(1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself,

(2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious.

In short, the shadow is the unknown side.

Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative.

There are, however, positive aspects that may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem, anxieties, and false beliefs).

Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness and may be positive or negative.

"Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."

It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts, which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.

Carl Jung stated the shadow to be the unknown dark side of the personality. According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognized as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else.

Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object—if it has one—or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power."

These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.

From one perspective, "the shadow...is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious"; and Jung himself asserted that "the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man's shadow-side unexampled in any previous age".

A seemingly paradoxical dichotomy emerges from any assumed singularity comprised of apparently oppositional forces.

How can we both love our “shadow” and fight it?

Intuitively, a simple answer emerges:

We play with it.

The “long term evolution,” (to stea .. er ... borrow an expression from the Mobile Technology industry) has been geared towards a means by which the potentiality and practicality of a persistent “System,” which provides for the creation and invention of stories by actively interfacing with it, can become realized as self-sufficient and self-sustaining (by sustained participatory efforts being made by players and developers).

It is not going to fall to the illusory cop-out of Faith in manufacturing an “ecosystem.”

The “lore” is, and has been, strewn with artifacts and tidbits of “Metafiction.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metafiction


And among the inventions of and within the “Tennoverse” there have been very deliberately in “planted” landmarks, signs, symbols, and “cues” of “metafiction, some of them even being blatantly “larger than life” components within the structure of the environment itself. Further plants have both subtly and blatantly informed a metanarrative to the Tennoverse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanarrative

In other words, the Tennoverse develops concomitantly with a “Meta Game.”  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming

The Meta Game is an analogue of the practical stories which have emerged from the experiences of the creators and developers in working towards getting “the system” to work.

So, it is amorphous.

It is continually reinforced by inference as existing, but it does not exist in any definite state. 

The Quills are probably the first definite “plant” within the Tennoverse, intended to directly communicate that “the world” exists within a simulated environmental construct. 

The Game and (eventually) The System, is (in large part) geared towards realizing a functional representation of a “simulation.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis


 

Futuristic is not The Future

DE is no more The Orokin than the Tenno are from The Origin System

If anything, DE and Players alike are The Tenno, and what would be a completely incomprehensible Paradox (to anyone Native to The Origin System), would be a revelation that The Tenno actually “created” it.

With some help from Chaos ... or .... er ...”The Void.”

 


 

 

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This has been my major gripe with Warframe. The lore doesn't all click. I agree with a lot of what's said in here. They need to look at new player experience with fresh eyes. Keep things in order and fix dialogue inconsistencies. Easily done if they dedicate someone to compile the storied assets they have generated already and put apply rules, if player has not completed x quest, x persons dialogue does not show up for dailies etc etc.

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13 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the argument I made that put pretty solid evidence as the base frames being designed first and then followed up with the Prime variants. In lore. Contrary to the Prime Access extolling them as "Orokin Originals."

Also OP, you forgot the fact that canonically speaking, the entirety of events on Jupiter's Gas City tileset only occurred AFTER the Sacrifice / Chimera quests. Because they all have Amalgams. Who weren't created until a Sentient Mimic made a deal with Alad V. Sentient Mimics were not present in the Origin System until the Sacrifice Quest. What's even more confusing, however, is that DE acknowledges this. As a result, Amalgams are not present in the Jupiter Alad V Assassinate node. Nor are there the secret labs on that node. That one node, one of the very last of Jupiter's nodes, canonically occurs before all the others. It's maddening. Hotfix 25.0.3: "Removed Amalgams spawning on Jupiter > Themisto due to narrative/lore confusion."

Exactly, DE shoot themselves in the foot, Amalgams and NightWave are the most lore braking concepts the game has right now, new players can literally read a story that is set AFTER the major quests, wen they arent even near there, not only that, they get access to Sentient tech (disruptions) that hasn't been made yet since they still very much so have the Lotus, WHICH WAS THE ONE THAT FORCED ALAD TO MAKE SAID TEC. All in all, either DE needs to make nodes where the secret labs are and lock them for new players or make it so said labs do not appear wen playing whit new players, same for the amalgams.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Exactly, DE shoot themselves in the foot, Amalgams and NightWave are the most lore braking concepts the game has right now, new players can literally read a story that is set AFTER the major quests, wen they arent even near there, not only that, they get access to Sentient tech (disruptions) that hasn't been made yet since they still very much so have the Lotus, WHICH WAS THE ONE THAT FORCED ALAD TO MAKE SAID TEC. All in all, either DE needs to make nodes where the secret labs are and lock them for new players or make it so said labs do not appear wen playing whit new players, same for the amalgams.

I wouldn't call Amalgams and Nightwave lore breaking, as there's nothing in previous lore to suggest they couldn't happen. Confusing, yes. In addition, Disruption is locked behind the Natah quest still I believe, meaning the concept of Sentients isn't that early on spoiled. Yes that includes the Mars node still, I think. In addition the secret labs are locked behind Second Dream, they can't be opened without Void Damage. Does it solve the problem entirely? No. Does it do something at least? Yes.

Nothing I could see being reasonably done about amalgams. Feel free to suggest things but fixing Amalgam lore displacement isn't something I have the energy to touch.

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22 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the argument I made that put pretty solid evidence as the base frames being designed first and then followed up with the Prime variants. In lore. Contrary to the Prime Access extolling them as "Orokin Originals."

Also OP, you forgot the fact that canonically speaking, the entirety of events on Jupiter's Gas City tileset only occurred AFTER the Sacrifice / Chimera quests. Because they all have Amalgams. Who weren't created until a Sentinent Mimic made a deal with Alad. Sentient Mimics were not present in the Origin System until the Sacrifice Quest. What's even more confusing, however, is that DE acknowledges this. As a result, Amalgams are not present in the Jupiter Alad V Assassinate node. Nor are there the secret labs on that node. That one node, one of the very last of Jupiter's nodes, canonically occurs before all the others. It's maddening. Hotfix 25.0.3: "Removed Amalgams spawning on Jupiter > Themisto due to narrative/lore confusion."

 

8 hours ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Exactly, DE shoot themselves in the foot, Amalgams and NightWave are the most lore braking concepts the game has right now, new players can literally read a story that is set AFTER the major quests, wen they arent even near there, not only that, they get access to Sentient tech (disruptions) that hasn't been made yet since they still very much so have the Lotus, WHICH WAS THE ONE THAT FORCED ALAD TO MAKE SAID TEC. All in all, either DE needs to make nodes where the secret labs are and lock them for new players or make it so said labs do not appear wen playing whit new players, same for the amalgams.

The matter of the Jupiter Gas City (Jovian Concord Update) Rework, is something which made an immediate impression.

The “Rework,” has effectively nailed down Jupiter as being totally Alad V’s Turf.

That is problematic, because “we” have already “killed” (and apparently been responsible for having somehow resurrected) Alad V TWICE.

Now if those things were entirely relegated to, and confined within the temporarily installed (and mostly removed) “content” that introduced them, there would be no real problem. Because it could just be said to have been material that seemed good at the time, but was phased out, because it didn’t work with better ideas for continuing development.

But the Zanuka Project, and “Assassination,” and Zanuka as Field Boss was not removed, and would be extremely difficult and altogether impractical to try to remove. 
 

But (somehow) after that “Assassination,” Alad V was (necessarily) resurrected, since he becomes a Major Player in the Flagstone of all Quests, The Second Dream.

That debt which was owed, was a secondary, or side plot point, which Temporary “content” addressed: The [Shadow] Stalker being POed at Alad, and sicking the Acolytes on his a**. We want to know why the Acolytes are all totally mish-mashed Warframes and Tenno Accessories ... we just have to figure what Alad was up to, trying to play Frankenstein with Tenno as Warframes, culminating in Zanuka ... and leaving behind the uncontrollables in cold storage for the SS to unpack and thaw out .... you get the picture ... we’d get the picture ... ahhh ... The Acolytes make sense now ... and really, that is all that we want to have provided ... a picture or two, and a couple or few sentences that link what happened with Alad after The Second Dream to how he got involved with fooling around with infestation tech. That will totally cut it for implying everything that leads into and through the Patient Zero side quest and Mutalist Alad V Assassination. 
 

How does he get resurrected AGAIN? (How did he get resurrected the first time, for that matter?) Well, he is able to take up residence in his old HQ ... But since the Jovian  Concord Rework, he is the total, perpetual Boss of Jupiter entirely. Hmmmm ... Basically, HE has to run the course of his stories in order to have any sense made of what he’s doing there in his now THIRD LIFE.

So, making the Gas City locations consistent, regardless of how much, of how many, of HIS stories a player has unpacked, has come off as seeming (to me) like DE got too carried away with all the fun of reworking the Gas City environments, and only further mashed an already strained point-to-point stretched plot line, into an absolutely confused mess of all of them occurring simultaneously IN THE SAME PLACE, and none of them actually even occurring.

It would be fine, if there was nothing to which the First Resurrection and Third Life of Alad V were tied to in the requisite sequencing of (main) quest lines. We could play with interchanging when’s and how’s in all sorts of ways. But, his First resurrection is inexorably tied to The Second Dream. And his Third Life is mandated by what occurs following the two subsequent Quests. The post COH Apostasy Prologue hardwired his THIRD LIFE into progression across the framework and Quest lines which provide for the life of the New War and the Connective Space of Empyrean. Causal linkages HAVE to be inherent. 
 

To encounter Alad V before killing him The First Time, in The Second Dream Quest, is the sort of thing which the hierarchal mapping of progression and prerequisites through the Origin System was designed to ensure against in the first place. 
 

The Nightwave Review of The Wolf Of Saturn 6, does not, really, give away anything, nor did playing while it was running. It was and is a story that could have happened at any time, before or after the Mutalist Alad V interlude. In fact, it did run BEFORE the Gas City Rework was put out. And, what it SHOWS is consistent with Alad V as Corpus at pretty much any time. It has been integrated as a persistent part of the Tennoverse that The Corpus have been digging up and fooling around with Tech from Tau, which they don’t understand, and trying to cash in on it since before a new Tenno Awakens into The Dream.

The WoSS actually plays right into the revelations of The Partnership fragments, setting it up that he tried to fool around with amalgams already, and got bitten in the a** hard as a result. It primes him for being schmoozed and seduced by a mimic of some dullard from his past. 
 

But the confused mash of his plot line points is a prime example of what the call for clarification concerning necessary (and deathly absent) story linkages within the game is all about.
 

The HOPE is that it is something which DE is working on restructuring, (but, perhaps, just holding back on finalizing and deploying, until the major components of the Empyrean Expansion are put in place and working well).

I still expect (but don’t care if things go otherwise) that the “New Intro” is what will be the signifier of moving into that stage of finalization of Warframe Empyrean, as an integrated Universe, Game and System.

 

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On 2020-01-05 at 1:41 AM, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I wouldn't call Amalgams and Nightwave lore breaking, as there's nothing in previous lore to suggest they couldn't happen. Confusing, yes. In addition, Disruption is locked behind the Natah quest still I believe, meaning the concept of Sentients isn't that early on spoiled. Yes that includes the Mars node still, I think. In addition the secret labs are locked behind Second Dream, they can't be opened without Void Damage. Does it solve the problem entirely? No. Does it do something at least? Yes.

Nothing I could see being reasonably done about amalgams. Feel free to suggest things but fixing Amalgam lore displacement isn't something I have the energy to touch.

All Disruptions should be locked behind The Sacrifice, same for the labs, as Amalgmas only happen after The Sacrifice. While the concept isnt spoiled, the content is still not in order, which is my main problem, since you can still see Amalgams in the labs if you haven't opened the door.

My suggestion ? Either remove Alad V sending in Amalgams or make nodes that stay locked untill you do The Sacrifice in where you can find said labs and the Amalgams, and also, obviously, remove said labs from the normal nodes.

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The story as a whole has no continuation and can confirm this as I have attempted to get two friends into the game (turns out they ended up hating Warframe in the end), both of them took issue with the story being a garbled mess after the intro mission.

They also hated the artstyle, something about the grineer i guess.

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On 2020-01-06 at 4:54 PM, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

All Disruptions should be locked behind The Sacrifice, same for the labs, as Amalgmas only happen after The Sacrifice. While the concept isnt spoiled, the content is still not in order, which is my main problem, since you can still see Amalgams in the labs if you haven't opened the door.

My suggestion ? Either remove Alad V sending in Amalgams or make nodes that stay locked untill you do The Sacrifice in where you can find said labs and the Amalgams, and also, obviously, remove said labs from the normal nodes.

If I’m inferring the underlying reasoning concerting disruptions here correctly ... I was about to agree with it, but there in an uncertainty now ...

We are still approaching the matter of linearity drawing from that of our experience.

The Lotus is absent from Disruption missions, and, of course, from the Flydolon.

It is apparent that the Conduits in Disruption missions are data gatherers of The Sentient.

A simplified description, but the interest here is content as context and pretext.

There is a certain necessity to ensuring that the both be “locked” behind the first two lives (and “deaths”) of Alad V.

But, the “Amalgam Technology” is something which we may be looking at incorrectly, based mostly on when things were first added.

Corpus Interest in “Old War” Tech is, and has been persistent. We see new additions, and tend to correlate them with sequential progressions (i.e. added in “Update” X.0.0).

But TAKING INTO consideration the “new player experience,” these elements are, actually, not inconsistent. 

There used to be no “new player experience.” So if a player hadn’t been around for a long time, or even since the beginning, there would be no background to what was happening filled in (by the game itself). New players would have to get info from existing players and wiki resources.

The only other set-up/preface, was the Cinematic that dropped in 2013 at E3.


AFTER the first “Cinematic” Quest had been added, the “content” that had not been “shaken out of the bottle,” was assembled over a hierarchal grid, or map. 
 

The “Star Chart” overhaul.

Which really put things into a realized concept of a “game” with ITS own “Identity,” integrating the 2013 Cinematic into a New Player Introductory Quest, and providing a framework for making additions (or adding “expansions”) to.

IT’S an important reason for taking care to discriminate between various different narrative structures and expositional forms which present within Warframe, without any being necessarily present at all times, (otherwise, any discussion of “lore” that refers to “backstory,” or “story” that refers to “narrative content,” and by default, “The Story,” can and should be pretty easily and readily dismissed.)

The organization and delivery of “content” does not follow any form or system that has been used in gaming or media fiction before. The intended “Story” is intended to be uniquely different to the experience of every player, and therefor, it is each players own story, of dreaming and being dreamed.

The intended addition of new introductory “content” to Warframe, which, like its predecessor) is being deployed as a “Cinematic Trailer,” places an especially particular emphasis on that.

It immediately transforms the perception of “outer space” into “dream space.”

 

 

In retrospect, even my contentions and concerns about the new Gas City rework, may have been still too stuck on when “content” was released, and the necessarily correlating causal linkages ... too strictly ... in accord with the linearity of my own experience with it.

Why is it that, given the prevalent Corpus interest in exploiting “Old War Tech,” that Alad V would not be working on mining stuff from Tau?

Because of when things were introduced, there seems to be a tendency to misplace causal inferences.

Of course he would. And it seems, now, only normal, how labs and data vaults that are built around studying “Old War Sentient Fighters,” or pieces and fragments of larger Sentients, have been set up. 

As a consequence, it SEEMS that the Amalgams and “Amalgam Technology,” are the products of “The Partnership,” (and therefore presumed to have been conceived by The Sentient/Natah). 

But that really doesn’t really jive.

It actually makes MORE sense to consider that Alad V’s work is what drew the focus of Sentient Attentions toward HIM in particular. 

To that extent, it may just as well have been the early conduits themselves.

The latest, greatest, in assets security.

The “SysComm” IP.

Reviewing “The Partnership” log ...

”Things have never been this bad. The currents are strengthening in that rank cesspool of a Board. Nef Anyo has consolidated his power on Venus, winning Frohd Bek's favor. All eyes are turning toward their new darling. And the currents... the currents would drag me down.

I am underestimated. I am unseen. I must turn that to my advantage.

I seek advantage and advantage appears! I'd long thought that old fool Regus dead, but here is - rich and gullible as ever! With an offer of shared wealth. Says he has tech like I've never seen! Old War tech. And he wants an investor. Oh, I'll invest all right...

This is about more than investment. Regus surprises me. How a man of his limited intellect came by such wonders is... But... forget that. What he has is... exceptionally viable. Where did he find this technology? It stinks of Tau, but the advantages to be had in the exploitation of it... the things I could create... the profits I could accrue... the Board will never dare underestimate me again!

Regus' price was high, but I dangled the Board's most enticing intellectual property,

SysComm,

to seal the deal. “

 

Really, it is Alad V’s “Story” which is most critical for maintaining “continuity.”

So, what SHOULD NOT happen, would be for Alad V to present Amalgams as his new apotheosis, before, or simultaneously, with The Zanuka Project (which itself is necessarily prerequisite to The Second Dream), or his Patient Zero “Mutalist Empire” phase.

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/218290327-Quest-Tips-Minimal-Spoilers-

The question (for me) is, HAVE locks on certain content been put in place, so that Alad V is not periodically turning up on Gas City Terminals with announcements which relate to “The Partnership,” BEFORE he gets suckered into ...

“That was not Regus. It was never Regus. It revealed its true face to me and... by the Void. I've entered into a partnership... with Sentients. The world-builders, the world-killers. Our enemy under all. This contract is worthless. Instead, they demand submission.

CT! Assemble the disciples. Arm the Condors. Those oversized crustaceans have no idea who they're dealing with.”

HAVE LOCKS been put in place, so that Alad V does not turn (or drop in) on [“new”] players’ first missions which culminate in the Zanuka showdown, doing an Amalgam tribute to Monty Pythons Flying Circus?

”AND NOW, TENNO, FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!”

”IT’S ....” hmm ... no ... that would be overdoing it ...

“ALAD V’S FLYING CIR ...” no, no ... hmm ... no ... ah!

”MY AMALGAMS!”

To re-FRAME the question, has “THE VALUE OF NOT BEING SEEN” been handled with appropriate attention, in relation to WHEN and HOW Alad V turns up, saying or doing WHAT?

(The classic John Cleese introduction was reprised in [nearly] innumerable variant segues from a pre-opening sketch, including the sketch itself not having any resolute “story,” or ending, “pay-off,” etc. as the camera frame wanders into his sitting behind a desk [or a suitable proxy], completely out of place with the preceding context, to announce,

“[And] now for something completely different.”

Followed by “IT’S!”

(Monty Pythons Flying Circus popularised innovative formal techniques, such as the cold open, in which an episode began without the traditional opening titles or announcements. An example of this is the "It's" man: Palin, outfitted in Robinson Crusoe garb, making a tortuous journey across various terrains, before finally approaching the camera to state, "It's ...", only to be then cut off by the title sequence and theme music.)

 

So, IT’S important to not precede the unfolding of  Alad V’s “Identity Crisis” (or “second life crisis” that perhaps serves as an analog of the more familiar, contemporary “midlife crisis”)

https://itzdarkvoid.wordpress.com/tag/warframe-patient-zero/

with what necessarily transpires afterwards, creating an unacknowledged forced fiction identity crisis, (where in Alad V presents as being in two or three different “lives” [or phases of life], in different places, simultaneously, without having any problem with, or even noticing it at all).

There is, of course, a not unreasonable “cure” for the potential dilemma of the triple Alad V trip.

Present the Quest (which follows AV through his Mutalist efforts to recapture his younger years spent as a “fashion victim” and reimagine himself as a “hipster” that’s down with mutualism, in the post - Zanuka-Is-Your-Future/Make-Way-For-The-New-Generation - FAILURE) as a “requisite” for knowing WTF is going on, which can be bypassed, and picked up on later.

Because, let’s face it, there are plenty of “gamers” for whom jacking up enemies to levels that are higher than the number words in their vocabulary, for endless missions, which have to give better “rewards,” and be more “challenging” with a Maxed “Blood Lust” Mod to provide “realistic scaling,” is what is what “content” is supposed to be. 
 

But going back to how “Patient Zero” is presently situated, and how it SHOULD be handled and presented, it can be recognized that it is not too far off the mark. 
 

Warframe is a representation of the world, the solar system, the universe, in a “dream state.” It does not correlate with the present “real” world, or even its future. It is FUTURISTIC ... but in a very unusual FASHION, and to a wildly uncommon extent. If you’re a gamer, expecting that it will provide a big story that gets told to you by pushing the right buttons at the right times,

it will not conform with any rules of “continuity” prescribed by fiction. 
 

(It’s probably the strangest idea to ever have been attempted by the creators & players of any game, and actually worked. Waking up inside of a dream, seeing yourself as you want to appear, while also seeing what you as yourself sees within it. The META-NARRATIVE to that, would concern how and why the technologically generated and maintained system within a Dream is & was created, maintained and accessed and by whom. There are bucketloads of meta fiction through and through which call attention to the nature and conceptual structure of The Origin System. The only dilemma that gets in the way of recognizing it arises from a confusion between representation and simulation. Unlike virtual reality, or “Second Life,” which are modern day Simulation Platforms, [as opposed to being games in and of themselves] what is being REPRESENTED in Warframe is a very advanced type of Simulation which is drawn from “[Speculative] Science Fiction.”)

It’s not necessary to believe that. But, it will make it a lot easier to understand how to better isolate the problem areas, and speculate on the feasibility of measures to improve upon them.

Take the set ups of Avalon or World On A Wire as being the “Meta.”

 

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I think DE is more focused on gameplay mechanics than lore honestly. Which is cool, because the gameplay comes first. They showed vitruvian entries as lore they are adding to the game. Which is awesome but after this long I’d really like to see the Ballas- Lotus- Natah- Margulis story arc fleshed out and completed before it gets even more convoluted than it already is. 

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Mostly because Warframe isn’t designed like the more standard looter-shooters out there, where you level up in Campaign mode (which has a complete story) and then cross Gearscore Gulf before, finally, hitting Endgame.

Warframe’s story isn’t complete, it’s scattered everywhere and everywhen, and there’s no standard campaign mode to level through—instead, you end up doing a bunch of stuff incoherently as you also do some more essential leveling up quests.

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1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Mostly because Warframe isn’t designed like the more standard looter-shooters out there, where you level up in Campaign mode (which has a complete story) and then cross Gearscore Gulf before, finally, hitting Endgame.

Warframe’s story isn’t complete, it’s scattered everywhere and everywhen, and there’s no standard campaign mode to level through—instead, you end up doing a bunch of stuff incoherently as you also do some more essential leveling up quests.

Thats no excuse to not hide lore related stuff from new players, why show players stuff like Amalgams, Conduits, Little Duck and  Alad V out of order if they will only lern about them MUCH later on ?

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On 2019-12-24 at 11:24 AM, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Spider man shoots organic webs and talks to insects. Captain America is a Nazi. Superman and Wonder Woman date cuz they are both strong.

I don't know if this is a good comparison because that nonsense happens in their own continuities, and all the older "good stuff" still exists. It's not like the publishers confiscated everybody's comicbooks and replaced them with altered versions. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Thats no excuse to not hide lore related stuff from new players, why show players stuff like Amalgams, Conduits, Little Duck and  Alad V out of order if they will only lern about them MUCH later on ?

You are aware that none of this is actually a thing though?

1. You cannot access disruption at all prior to doing Natah and you cannot enter Lua disruption prior to doing The Sacrifice.

2. LD is found on Venus long before either of that happens.

3. So you cannot run into LD prior to meeting her in person unless you get a taxi service or ignore content on the way. Both being your own self made loss just like in all other online games where you skip ahead.

Though there are things that could be added. The whole cure thing with Alad V is a bit obscure.

 

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