BloodyEy3 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) This Thread is supposed to be about Limbo and (maybe) possible future Changes as well as short about his current state, useability and so. I`ll be giving a short Rating to start this of: Survivability: 1/5 (outside rift) 4,5/5 inside rift --> 3/5 overall Useability: 4.5/5 (spy, defense(+ sortie), mobile defense, excavation, Kuva, generel infested + grineer mission Feel of Gameplay: 4/5 (if useing only 2 and 4) - 2/5 (When useing other abilities aswell) Conclusion: Good overall gamestated. Extremly strong and usefull vs infected and grineer and in listed mission types but can be difficult vs Corrupted and Corpus (nullifiers and some enemies ingore the rift). Feels good to play if you want to mainly use 4 and 2 and wait inside till timer runs out, but really jagged and slow if you decide to use other abilities aswell (to this point later more) Things Limbo can do/ how the rift works: Enter Rift via Shift (Rolling/Dash) or Cataclysm and allied Limbos Banish Transitioning Planes Deals 300 Impact dmg on enemies (Cataclysm edge, banish, Radial Banish (riftsurge) Inside the rift you gain 2 energy/sec and 10 energy on kill. Inside the rift you cannot interact (press x) with most consoles are targets, but the operator can (cannot enter Rift) inside the rift you cannot pick up mods and resources, health/energy orbs, etc. only standing orbs (zenurik, vazarin and so on --> Fetch and Vacuum still pick loot up you just received it after leaving the rift or Cataclysm as in the later you can pick up loot normaly Dmg accross planes is not possible: inside rift/outside rift and outside rift/inside rift cannot inflict dmg on eachother Besides: Warframe Abilities and Operator Abilities/ Amps aswell as some enemy (mainly "boss") attack! (Note: Most Bosses cannot be banished but can be put inside rift via Cataclysm (stasis doesnt work thought) and While Nullifiers will destroy Cataclysm on Contact, they wont unrift enemies affected by Banish or Radial Banish from Riftsurge Abilities: Dash/Roll: Enter/Leave Rift and create Rift Portal Banish: Banishes a Cone in front of you (0,75 sec casting 1handed not affected by speed). Only Affects enemies on same plane Stasis: "freezes all Rift bound Enemies Riftsurge: Surges all enemies in the rift and in range with Energy. Upon leaving the Rift it explodes performing a Radial Banish around the targets. Rift Surged Enemies that are killed Transferr their Riftsurge on a Nearby target that isnt affected by it already (Also to enemies that are not in the Rift) Cataclysm: Create a Rift Sphere, that shrinks in size with continouing duration, increasing its dmg upon collapsing (duration running out or recasting Catacylsm) Augment Banish: Heals Allies affected by Banish for 25% max hp Augment Riftsurge: Deal 30% additional DMG while in the Rift for each Rift Surged Enemy inside the Rift Augment Cataclysm: Each kill in Cataclysm adds 1sec Duration on Cataclysm, max. is starting Duration (doesnt stop the Decreasing size General "Combos" : 2+4 (3) --> "stasis" Field (most commenly used with high range and duration) (defense, excavation,mobidefense,kuva) 2+1+3+1 --> Spreading Rift on Riftbound enemies (via banish on riftsurged enemies which cast the radial Banish of riftsurge) (survival) 1 (decent range,max eff, decent dur) --> Useing Banish knockdown as cc and swiftly killing them to Gain energy (after 2+ enemies) 1 (augment+ high strength+ max dur) --> Healing Sortie Defense Targets, Allies, (defections, Grineer drone excort, Rescue Target) Builds: Defense/Sorti Defense/mobi Defense: min range, max duration Survival/defense/Interception (grineer+infested): Max Range/ max duration Defaction: High Strength (+Banish Augment), ~60-70% duration (makes it easier to "spam" Banish + as far as i know targets dont get healed from health tower in defaction while in the rift) Spy: All mobility Mods + stealth kubrow/shade (rift ingnores lasers, cameras still see you --> not when stealthed --> rift + Stealth = gg) Banish augment: Max Strength, Minimal Duration + Brief Respite (3sec banish duration, ~30 energy --> 45shield, heals 70% max hp) Rift Surge Augment: ~150 strngth, ~190 Range, ~120 Duration My Ideas for Limbo changes: to encourage active gameplay giving him a stronger position in teamplay (more buffs for team, even if they dont play in rift, mainly his 3) making him overall more squad and new player friendly (visual update and rift clarification) I think all of these changes would overall benifit limbo. having a max duration on shift into rift makes it near impossible to continously stay afk in rift (as you are forced out off rift). the banish changes make it more easy to banish what u wanted to target. The "downside" of stasis not instantly freeze is only a negative in disguise. the unfreeze part makes up for it, as it gives a "safty net" to recast stasis without being overhelmed directly.(unfreeze time starts after stasis has run out/ canceled). Riftsurge besides still having the property of "synergy" bandaid between limbos ability, it now aswell has teamproperty worked into it, giving his teammates a small portion of the rift buff outside the rift. making riftsurge give a small amount off cross dmg to targets in rift, reduces the "troll" potential even more. Catacylsm itself has a bit smaller starting size, and lower duration. with the change how 4+3 interact (aswell as cross plane dmg) and banish portal in catalcysm. it gives the team 2 additonal ways to fight enemies in the other plane. --> riftportal in cataclysm would still need some outer "sense" parameters, my brain coulnt come up with a good way atm. The visual effects are hereby probably the most important to support those "interaction" and make them less confusing. The dmg changes would push limbo even more in an utility/support position. Since it is % value its equally strong at all lvl, which makes sense, since the rift is the equal to lvl 1 enmies as lvl 100 enemies. since his abilities dont really deal dmg besides his 4 he relies more on weapons now, but that is easier as rift debuff+ (banish debuff)+ riftsurge dmg amp (prone to dmg= dmg amp). All these changes give strength more value (more debuff on banish, stronger slow/ quicker stasis, more dmg amp, more cross plane dmg, more base dmg on 4). Since strength has more "base value" this makes the augments (besides for 4 augment) more desirble to use (as all of them benefit from strength). more build diversity Spoiler maybe wanting to opt in for more strength aswell as augments gives his build alot of diversity (full team support with 3 augments, strength, duration, leaves 3 optional mod choices + exilus and aura) nuke build is stronger: 4+3 "vacuums" enemies in to the middle (where most dmg is) and aswell adds more dmg to explosion. --> min duration max strength + decent range (since 2%dmg for each %sec of duration (if it runs out cause min duration build it still has reach 100% duration and as such 200% dmg) high lvl debuff, 3 augment build (high duration + high strength) --> works for all augments (1 augment support role, 2 augment utility role) all old builds are still doing what they used to do (may need stasis augment, but since it also gives 200% passive speed ( 30% casting speed, it could be swapped for natural talent Now Following my Ideas on how he would be "easier" to play with more synergy between his abilites and making him overall better (ideas are all buffs, unless numbers are worked out) Rift: Spoiler generalization attempt: bosses: banish --> doesnt work stasis --> doesnt work (only on his weapon, if its projectile based weapon) riftsurge --> works normaly (need boss in rift) cataclysm --> if boss in cataclysm he is in rift abilities --> not cross plane (if in cataclysm they are not affected by stasis and as such can deal dmg to limbo) enviromental hazards: all affect both planes traps: none work laser activated alarms: dont trigger vision activated alarms: trigger arcanes + syndicates: work cross plane weapons + weapon alt fire (+ gas proc (blast procs?) and napalm fire patches,....): doesnt work cross plane sth interesting would be to allow (weapon dmg augments --> example volt shocktroper to deal the amount of dmg that it adds to a weapon cross plane) Operators + amps: operators cant enter rift, operator abilites work cross plane, amp dmg crossplane sentinel/ (companion): abilites work cross plane (vacuum does, coolent leaker does, warframe ablities do, lich abilities do, why not those aswell?? Lich: look at boss lich abilities: work cross plane mini bosses: look at boss field bosses (profit, eidolon): cant be cast into rift (would be interesting if it could, but then would need requirement like 3/4-4/5 of body needs to be inside the cataclysm) Defense targets: static (mobile defensive, excavation, cyropods,....) : can be rift bound if center ground part is atleast in rift (--> only with cataclysm)not not static: (drones, recuse, sortie defense targets, lures): can be but in rift (cataclysm, needs to be inside it. and banish) interaction (consoles,mobi defense terminal): while in rift: no while target of interaction is in rift (not banishable, only with cataclysm its pulled into rift): yes operator: always pickups (normal loot (without vaccum), also energy things for excavtion, thermia canisters, mobile defense data pack,...): while in rift: no while target is in cataclysm: yes operator: can collect "loot" regarding of plane, (cant pick up "item" that require x i think thought like a gerneal operator stuff) rift transition enemies: (not affected by mods) Spoiler into rift: - 10% max hp, armor & shield (new 100% value) out off rift: -10% active hp, armor & shield leaving rift he regains his % max stats value but permanantly loses his active values depending on entering (staggering forward), leaving (staggering backwards) Riftbound allies: Spoiler 2energy/sec while in rift 10 energy/enemy in rift killed 15% sprint speed, casting speed, holsterrate, stagger recover,knockback recovery, -10% status effect duration Rift Visual & Sound: Spoiler make the rift monochrome enemies affected by it have no color and are either more whiteish or black depending on sorrounding lighning lvl, if its bright its darker if its dark lighter. (and highlighted/outlined by limbo energy color) while a player is in the rift everything that cant be interacted with becomes monochrome (envirement stays the same) and enmies that are inside the rift are again highlighted with energy color (+ you get innate seethrough if enmies are affected and behind a wall for example) Sound: Spoiler on rift dash: (remove or lower it significantly) entering/leaving: (got idea from last devsteam) the blending out sound part --> entering: sucks in all sound, leaving: gives sound back. general: --> could go in further on entering rift/leaving rift part -> inside rift only enviromental sounds + sound from enemies inside rift (depending on how "annoying" silent/calm rift sound is, sound outside rift while inside rift (and other way round) could be just tuned down (and get a bit of interference noise) Rift Dash: Spoiler --> Rift Transition: enter rift without displacement, but short "animation" (how old rift entering used to be) --> max 60sec not affected by mods (automatically leaves rift). leaves "portal" for 10sec at transition point. (can be used to enter/leave rift, without "animation") Banish: Spoiler Tap for Radial Banish around Selected Target and only faction of that target --> only allies/ only enemies (line of sight needed) Hold to perform Banish Cone (the way it works now but slightly increased angle (no line of sight needed but needs a Target in Range, only enemies) Leaves a Rift Portal (like Dashing/Rolling does) infront of Limbo for the Duration of Banish (max 2 portals open, 1from dash and 1 from banish) portal in cataclysm = small "window" to normal plane (going through it does nothing, but you can hurt enemies outside cataclysm) no dmg (because of how the debuffs works it theoretical still deals dmg), but debuff slows enemies for 2sec by 25%, gives +100% rift transition "debuff" (affected by strength) banishing into rift: 10% + 10% max stats banishing out of rift: 10% + 10% active stats the additional affect is permanently --> entering rift via banish permanently reduces %max stats (unlike the 10% from rift transition itself) Stasis: Spoiler slows time down for enemies in the rift, increasing in strength till full "time stop". (prolongs status duration). when stasis duration runs out, is deactivated or canceled unfreezes them over same duration it took to reach stasis. for example 1sec till 100% slow ("stasis") --> starts with 50% (+25% slow per 0,5sec) --> for unfreeze its from 50-0 over 1sec +duration reduces slow per second (as it takes longer to reach 100%) strength enhences slow (both values, upfront and over x duration) Spoiler 200 duration, 150 strength: 75% slow + ( (25%*1,5) /2sec) --> 100% slow in 1,33 sec strength doesnt prolong unfreeze duration upon reaching max duration affect automatically vanishes (since duration ran out) duration means always full affect active --> negative strength still stasis after full "duration" (just less slowed) 200 duration, 40 strength: 20% + ( (80%*0,4) /2sec) --> theoretical only 52% slow after 2sec, but after the 2sec it automically jumps to stasis Rift Surge: Spoiler charges enemies (in rift + range) and allies (in range) . recasting 3 refreshes duration of all enemies in rift. (surge/transfers --> range (surge) 30m, transfer (10m around enemy) duration as now (25sec) Enemies: are 15% more prone to dmg, On kill Riftsurge splits to up to 2 nearby unaffected enemies (duration still from previous riftsurge) enemies not in the rift that got a rift surge charge through transition on kill are eligble for banish (for half energy cost), while in rift exploding riftsurge charge for radial banish around target (just 1 layer of rift transtion debuff ) for riftsurged enemies in the rift, exploding riftsurge (2 into rift transtions, no "out of rift" transition) rift surged enemies are unable to pass through cataclysm wall (if cataclysm collapses/ends, riftsurge is consumed to keep them in rift for the duration of riftsurge (that was left) if banish duration runs out and target has riftsurgecharge --> consumes charge to keep it for the duration it still had left in the rift. Allies: weapons are charged with rift energy allowing to deal 20% dmg to riftbound enemies ("cross plane" dmg) + gives 1/4 of rift passive (0,5/sec +3energy/ killing enemy in rift, and 2,5% "speed" Cataclysm: Spoiler same as it is now, lower starting size but bit bigger min size and a bit less base duration having 2 active, reduces the amount how often enemies leave enter rift, since they are not constantly on edge, since in rift transtion has a forward stagger and out of rifttranstion backward stagger (and since stasis has "slow" start -> they "stumble further into cataclysm, or quickly get pushed out (as stasis has no effect once they left rift) on creation: no dmg only "rift transtion" on edge: same on Collapsing (running out of duration or recasting --> "closing"): 5% active hp from enemies that are still in cataclysm after Collapse --> violently explodes (area of starting cataclysm). ((base dmg+collaps dmg add)*0,02/%sec active) * 5%dmg amp for each enemy killed in cataclysm only base dmg scales of ability strength deminishes over distance (at max range only 25% dmg left) Augments: Spoiler Banish: into rift: heal 35% max hp and all negative status effects are cleared out of rift: gain 15% max hp, amor and shield (1000 hp, 1000 armor (guardian + 100 base), 1k shield --> 1150,...) Using banish portal give half of the effect into always triggers. out of rift (is a buff, it only reapplies buff, portal and banish doesnt stack, always "lastest" value) Stasis: instant stasis + when stasis is active + 200% (affected by strength) passive speed Values (addtionally 25% firerate/ attackspeed, projectile speed, pakour velocity) Riftsurge: killing enemy consumes rift surge charge. (doesnt transition anymore) per charge gain weapon dmg buff + evasion/ half of riftsurge duration each new stack renews the duration (not refreshed by recasting riftsurge) max. stacks 20 (each give 10% dmg buff + 2% dmg reduction) --> max: 200% dmg buff and 40% reduction at 10stacks --> affected by strength Cataclysm: kill inside cataclysm fuel it. each kill + 1sec (gives size with the duration back aswell) --> can overcharge too 150% size and duration All numbers are more or less placeholders Base/Mod scaling: ("+" for scaling, base stats on max rank in (..), RB= Radial Banish, *specifically Explained) Spoiler Banish: + duration (25sec) + strength (+100% Riftstransition) + range (tap target range: 30m (unaffected), 6m radius ; wave +35m Intial cone: 5m increasing in width + angel ) + efficiency (25energy). Aug: + strength (heal / max hp + shield) Stasis: + Efficiency (50energy) + Duration (20sec (1,5 sec of it the slow to stasis ramp up) + 1,5sec speed up (to normal speed 0% slow) + strength (50% slow + ( (100-starting slow/duration)*ability strength) Aug: + strength Rift Surge: + Range (surge: 35m, Transitioning: 10m (from enemy killed) 50% effectivness of Range mods; RB on Banshing Riftsurged Enemies 6m unaffected by range ) + Strength (enemy take 15% more dmg/ allies deal 20% cross rift dmg) + Effency (50energy) + Duration (25, RB: what was left of riftsurge duration, same for hold in rift) Aug: +Strength (Buff*/Charge), Duration (Consumes 1charge/ sec, not affected by duration) Cataclysm: +Range (12,5m radius , min size 7,5m radius) + Strength (1000dmg) + Duration (25sec) + Efficiency (100e) Aug: + Duration (max + 50% starting duration) Edited March 7, 2020 by BloodyEy3 updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space0ddity Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 this is the worst formatting i have ever seen in my life, the hell are you on about mate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) pushing stuff around so first text is updated. leaving old stuff here so its not "lost" 1. Spoiler Banish: Tap for Radial Banish around Selected Target and only faction of that target --> only allies/ only enemies (line of sight needed) Hold to perform Banish Cone, increasing its angle and starting width with time hold (no line of sight needed but needs a Target in Range, allies and foes) Leaves a Rift Portal (like Dashing/Rolling does) infront of Limbo for the Duration of Banish (max 2 portals open, 1from dash and 1 from banish) portal in cataclysm = small "window" to normal plane (going through it does nothing, but you can hurt enemies outside cataclysm) Stasis: Works Like Equinox night 3 --> Toggle: Activating costs X Energy afterwards Enemies in the Rift and in Range are held in Stasis Consuming x Energy per Enemy Rift Surge: Enemy part: Induces Enemies in The Rift and in Range with Rift Energy ( an option but too much saryn/ vauban like) making them more Vunerable to dmg/ or decreasing their Armor, Shields and Max. HP per sec. in the Rift general: Riftsurge only spreads on Enemies killed in the rift while Killer is in the Rift aswell. And Shows Affected target Counter on icon besides map + Targets position on map. Casting Banish on Rift Surged Targets Explodes the Charge resulting in a Radial Banish (unaffected by range mods) a) On Kill RiftSurge Load transfers to nearby uneffected target, if target is outside the Rift he becames banishable, exploding the riftsurge Charge resulting in a Radial Banish.(Re)casting Riftsurge Applies it to all new unaffected Enemies and Refreshes its Duration on all affected Targets aswell as Refreshing the Banish duration (to set amount) b) On Kill Spreads/ Multiplies to nearby Enemies (like Saryn spores) upon Casting Riftsurge Again, it consumes the Rift Surge banishing it. Ally Part: Induces Allies in Range and in the Rift with Rift Energy. Increasing their passive Energy gain while in rift to 3/sec and Energy gain on kill to 15. Aswell as enhancing their Speed and Reflexes (Reload speed, Holstering Rate, Sprint Speed, Casting Speed) Cataclysm: Rip Open the Plane to creat A Rift Sphere. Same as it is, but Reduce the starting size and duration (~12m and 20sec) therfore reduce Shriking size and speed or remove it altogether. Augment Banish: can be cast inside the Rift on Allies outside the Rift to Heal Target upon being Banished or Entering Through Rift Portal for 35% max hp remove all Satus Effects. After 3sec in the Rift gain 3sec of invunarbility (no dmg, status immunity (all)) --> stays even after leaving the rift Augment Rift Surge: On kill of riftsurged Enemy while in the rift absorbs the Charge instead of spreading it. (Whoever kills gets charge --> works on squad) Max. 20 Charges ---> per Charge Gain: 1,25% Dmgmetigation or Evasion and 3% Dmg Amplication Riftsurge can be recast after with atleast 1 Charge without enmies inside the rift, Refreshing the duration (but not giving a charge) Effect Transitions over after leaving the riftplane, but starts consuming a Charge every second. Augment Cataclysm: Kills Fuel the Cataclysm adding 1sec Duration per kill. Its possible to add 50% of max duration Example: The Maximal duration that the Duration Timer can reach on a 20sec Starting Cataclysm is 30sec. With max Duration ~300% its 60sec starting so max. 90sec What wouldnt Change : Playstyle and Gameplay would 90% be conserved. Limbo would still have same Faction and Mission Strong points as none of these would be changed (they are mainly cause of Rift itself and Cataclysm + Stasis, which both are barely changed) What would change : its Easier to banish actually selected Targets/Areas because of Banish Tap Mechanic, mainly making defection, rescue and Sortie Defense "easier" aswell as stopping/reducing accidential Banishes. The Rift Portal on Banish gives Allies an option to enter the Rift on their own command aswell as making it quicker to transfer to the riftplane for limbo himself so he can kill banished targets. (Rift dash is kinda cool, but for combat just irritating especially on some maps as it displaces you, aswell as kinda making the 1handed action of Banish useless as you need to dash which doesnt let u perform most tasks afterwards, aswell as negating the knockdown effect of Banish since u are performaning the dash animation and repositioning afterwards for most of the effect Duration). The Augment would be a bit more efficient since those 5% might seem not much, but with the ability Strength scaling its quite a bit more. Aswell as it make it reasonable for people to stay in the rift. The 3sec Time for 2nd part (time needed in rift annd duration off effect) should not be affected by Ability duration. Because of the new Stasis it now becomes inevtiable to kill the enemies inside the rift, so that you dont find urself with depleated Energy in no time. It should cost arround 10energy/ enemy, since killing a enemy in the rift gives you 10energy giving it abit of synergie. Through the Changes of Banish, Stasis and Rift Surge the overall Gameplay is more fast pasted and active. As Above stated Stasis makes it hard to stay idle for a long period of time atleast when its activated, even in the most common use together with cataclysm for defensive misisons it would need constant killing of the targets that are and the edge to maintain energy. Since the Cataclysm doesnt shrink anymore, the enemy dont leave and enter the rift constantly (so no extreme stasis drain) aswell as no need for riftsurge to counter the enemies leavign the rift on the edge. Which saves both time (casting time) and energy. The 2+1+3+1 combo stays that combo for variation a) and changes to 2+1+3+3 for variation b). This doesnt seem to be a upgrade but since 2 is now active at all times (doesnt restrict energy gain and doesnt drain unless enemy are in the rift) its activation time can be neglected. In Variation a) in addition to as its now it gives an use to Enemies that have a Charge of Riftsurge outside the rift, which atm are just useless (doesnt count to riftsurge augment count, has only an effect once that target gets into the rift (all take up alot of time/energy ---> dash banish dash; 1+3/ 3+1, Cataclysm) ) (the radial banish on riftsurged enemies isnt changed, so all targets are practically still banished afterwards) In Variation b) it Becomes even more swift since you just need to banish once, then cast 3, kill and cast 3 and kill and cast 3 and kill. It should still be decently organised since the enemies killed are infront of you so it spreads in the Dircection you are looking and moving. With the Riftsurge Augment the Spreading is reduced as the transferring is stopped since it gets consumed. Making it harder, as in u have to leave the rift or cast catacylsm or 3+1 before killing the last enemy so you can get new enemies into the rift. The time left outside to get new enemies with dash banish dash, consumes the gained charges by set time make it less dangerous but pushing you towards quick action. Or ask for a higher energy consumption because of added ability use. The concept would be powering up consuming Rift Energy and leaving the Rift to find new Fuel. Constantly driven by like a kind of "craving". Cataclysm especially augment makes normal defense and escavation easier, aswell as it ups his baseusefullness since 5m min range affected by range mods (max duration is - range) makes "uselessly" small atm besides for mobile defense rendering Catalysm Augment atm nearly useless (since it still shrinks even if u fuel the duration). it Would syngery somewhat with riftsurge augment since u have a never ending Cataclysm as long as enemies are killed inside it, which helps u having the "fuel" need for riftsurge, making e decently high effency and low duration build decent. Base/Mod scaling: ("+" for scaling, base stats on max rank in (..), RB= Radial Banish, *specifically Explained) Banish: + duration (25sec) + strength (250dmg) + range (rb: 30m, 5m radius; wave +35m Intial cone: 5m increasing in width + angel on charge) + efficiency (25energy). Aug: + strength (35% max hp) Stasis: +Range (35m) + Efficiency (20energy on cast, +10energy/ Enemy) Rift Surge: + Range (surge: 35m, Transitioning: 10m (from enemy killed) 50% effectivness of Range mods; RB on Banshing Riftsurged Enemies 6m unaffected by range ) + Strength (Debuff*/Buff*) + Effency (50energy) + Duration (20, RB: 12,5 (half of Banish) Aug: +Strength (Buff*/Charge), Duration (Consumes 1charge/ sec, not affected by duration) Cataclysm: +Range (12m) + Strength (500dmg) + Duration (20sec) + Efficiency (100e) Aug: + Duration (max + 50% starting duration) *Riftsurge: *Debuff: 15% Dmg Vunerarbility --> max. strngth --> 45% dmg vunerablity (ment with this is ingores Armor and Resistences) if other case (debuff per time) then: Depleting Shields 10% flat per sec. (First Priority); Reducing amorrr 5% flat per sec. (Second Priority); Reducing max Health 2% flat per sec. (Third Priority) --> Checks for first prio, if yes, depleting, if no checks for 2nd, if yes starts depleting, if no, checks for 3rd prio. (only starts lower prio if higher tier is "no") Buff: Engeryregen/ sec and Energy/ kill unaffected by mods Reload speed (25%) , Holstering Rate (25%), Sprint Speed (25%) , Casting Speed (20%) Augment Buff: 1,25 %dmg reduction/ evasion/ Charge --> max strngth: 3,75% per charge; max charges 20: --> 25% dmg Reduction -->max strngth: 75% Dmg Reduction 3% Dmg Amplification/ Charge ---> max strngth: 9% /Charge; max charges 20: --> 60% dmg Amplication --> max. strength: 180% (100% dmg + 180% --> nearly triple dmg) I hope i could give a good basic inside on current Limbo, his playstyle aswell as strong and "weak" points, followed by possible changes to remove those downsides (more useablity then strength, while it certainly is stronger) 2. Spoiler small update on essential parts (after thinking about limbo abit more) Tried to make Spoiler as side notes/- information hider Rift Dash: not as bad as i thought, but still takes time to get the displacementrange down to muscle memory. ( what i noticed is that the noise and visual of it is more annoying if its used often in combat then the displacement ) --> what ive personally didnt think about when i ve created this thread was how difficult it is sometimes to see the rfit effect (for none limbo players). Limbo himself has more understanding if somone is banished as he uses that ability and as such is more likely to see the faint visuals, or expects an enemy to be banished and correlates no being able to dmg sth with rift. (i dont look directly at squad who is playing what myself so i cant expect others to do it) So a easy way to fix both of it: make the rift monochrome enemies affected by it have no color and are either more whiteish or black depending on sorrounding lighning lvl, if its bright its darker if its dark lighter. (and highlighted/outlined by limbo energy color) while a player is in the rift everything that cant be interacted with becomes monochrome (envirement stays the same) and enmies that are inside the rift are again highlighted with energy color (+ you get innate seethrough if enmies are affected and behind a wall for example) Sound: on rift dash: (remove or lower it significantly) entering/leaving: (got idea from last devsteam) the blending out sound part --> entering: sucks in all sound, leaving: gives sound back. general: --> could go in further on entering rift/leaving rift part -> inside rift only enviromental sounds + sound from enemies inside rift (depending on how "annoying" silent/calm rift sound is, sound outside rift while inside rift (and other way round) could be just tuned down (and get a bit of interference noise) i think both sound and visual changes would make each on their own it easier to distinguish what plane of existence you are in atm, aswell as the enemies you are looking at. Both together would enhance eachother --> sound + color, less sound + monochrome. Both effects fit well with the differnent planes theme aswell. And the monochrome state of not interacatable stuff makes it easier for Players who just started playing Limbo (as they see on first sight, thats grey while rest is color --> gotta change plane to interact with it) (clearly there are more simple solutions: --> just highlight enemies with limbo rift color (problem is still black energy color dissapears) and just lower the sound volume on entering/leaving rift. QoL, most basic changes (more tweaks then rework): Rift: generalization of what works and what not Spoiler Negative?: Blasts from Jackal's homing missiles. In the Orb Vallis, some enemies are immune to Limbo's effects and will neither enter the Rift nor be affected by Stasis, i.e. Jackal, Hyena Pack, and Raknoids. Hyekka Masters' firebombs Kuva Fortress turrets and shrapnel mines. Toxic clouds from a Juggernaut Tusk Thumper, and its variants, can knock down and damage Tenno in the Rift with its charging. Projectile attacks from two of Lephantis' heads. Open fire, like flames burnnig in jars found during Sands of Inaros and jet flame from static dropship in Kuva Fortress. The fire patches left by Napalms will hurt players across both planes. This has been a bug since April, 2016. --> note on this the scaning drone from orb vallis bountys cannot be banished aswell, this makes absolute 0 sense as the grineer drone on poe can be banished to escort it. positive?: Mutalist Quanta's Alternate Fire Sentinel's Coolant Leak Projectiles from Pax Seeker, a Kitgun's Arcane, can target and damage enemies across planes. Projectiles from Exodia Contagion and Exodia Epidemic, zaw rivens from the plague star event, also damages enemies across planes. The Blade and Whip charge attack can pull enemies in both planes Syndicate weapon effects (such as Entropy) will affect enemies and breakable objects in both planes. Gas procs affect enemies outside the Rift, even when occurring on a target inside the Rift. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Plane no idea how far its updated or up to date generalization attempt: bosses: banish --> doesnt work stasis --> doesnt work (only on his weapon, if its projectile based weapon) riftsurge --> works normaly (need boss in rift) cataclysm --> if boss in cataclysm he is in rift abilities --> not cross plane (if in cataclysm they are not affected by stasis and as such can deal dmg to limbo) enviromental hazards: all affect both planes traps: none work laser activated alarms: dont trigger vision activated alarms: trigger arcanes + syndicates: work cross plane weapons + weapon alt fire (+ gas proc (blast procs?) and napalm fire patches,....): doesnt work cross plane sth interesting would be to allow (weapon dmg augments --> example volt shocktroper to deal the amount of dmg that it adds to a weapon cross plane) Operators + amps: operators cant enter rift, operator abilites work cross plane, amp dmg crossplane sentinel/ (companion): abilites work cross plane (vacuum does, coolent leaker does, warframe ablities do, lich abilities do, why not those aswell?? Lich: look at boss lich abilities: work cross plane mini bosses: look at boss field bosses (profit, eidolon): cant be cast into rift (would be interesting if it could, but then would need requirement like 3/4-4/5 of body needs to be inside the cataclysm) Defense targets: static (mobile defensive, excavation, cyropods,....) : can be rift bound if center ground part is atleast in rift (--> only with cataclysm)not not static: (drones, recuse, sortie defense targets, lures): can be but in rift (cataclysm, needs to be inside it. and banish) interaction (consoles,mobi defense terminal): while in rift: no while target of interaction is in rift (not banishable, only with cataclysm its pulled into rift): yes operator: always pickups (normal loot (without vaccum), also energy things for excavtion, thermia canisters, mobile defense data pack,...): while in rift: no while target is in cataclysm: yes operator: can collect "loot" regarding of plane, (cant pick up "item" that require x i think thought like a gerneal operator stuff) Banish: duration 20sec, range: 30m + Rift Portal (for duration of Banish + map marker) Stasis: base duration now 20sec Rift Surge: just holds enemies in riftplane . recasting 3 refreshes duration of all enemies in rift. (surge/transfers --> range (surge) 30m, transfer (15m) duration as now (25sec) banish + 3 --> duration runs out --> still in rift till 3 duration runs out cataclysm + 3 --> leaving cataclysm edge --> still in rift till 3 duration runs out Spoiler sth interesting to this would maybe be that enemies cant leave cataclysm --> slowly pulled towards center with decreasing size this would also give some sort of snyergy (with the 2nd part of 4 as over its lifetime the dmg increases min. duration (fleetin+transien -->nuke limbo back ? (good or bad ?)) Cataclysm: same as now. Synergies: 2+1 (in this order) --> opens enemies for finishers + Freezes them in that position 3+1 (in this order) --> casting banish on riftsurge, consumes riftsurge and unleashes radial banish (8m range not affected by mods --> duration of banish) rift surge on enemy outside rift (through transfer --> killing enemy with riftsurge charge in rift) eligible as banish target (triggers radial banish) Spoiler (3+ passive --> anything would be cool but not needed) Augments: 1: works on portal (aswell) 3: same 4: restore range with added duration (max range same, max duration same) Spoiler new 2 augment: gives 25% speed while in rift (also works for allies) speed= all speed (--> holster, reload, attack, firerate, casting speed, animation speed (--> dashing, double jump), movement speed, status duration (-25%), knock back/down recovery (+25%), bulletjump velocity) 3. Spoiler changes to Rift transition/ ability dmg Banish + Cataclysm (only on the tweaks kinda stuff, as it is more or less on riftsurge in the "rework") rift transition: (not affected by mods) into rift: - 10% max hp, armor & shield (new 100% value) out off rift: -10% active hp, armor & shield leaving rift he regains his % max stats value but permanantly loses his active values depending on entering (staggering forward), leaving (staggering backwards) Banish: no dmg (because of how the debuffs works it theoretical still deals dmg), but debuff slows enemies for 2sec by 20%, gives +150% rift transition "debuff" (affected by strength) banishing into rift: 10% + 15% max stats banishing out of rift: 10% + 15% active stats the additional affect is permanently --> entering rift via banish permanently reduces %max stats (unlike the 10% from rift transition itself) changed rift transition from 20% to 10% as there where balance problems with cataclysm edge (or it would need to work differntly, that %max hp stay the same, so that only the leaving rift "deals dmg" (as the % max hp lost is given back on leaving rift) Spoiler example: 100hp (max hp --> 100%) is banished (enters rift) --> 100hp * 0,7 = 70hp (new max hp --> 100% value) --> is banished again (leaves rift) --> 70* 0,7 = 49hp (70% max hp) then he regains 20% max hp --> 70* 0,2 = 14 --> 49+14 = 63hp (new max hp value being 84 ( =100%) --> 63/84= 0,75 --> target is left with 75% of his new max hp. in total he is left with 63% of his starting hp (max hp value being 100) Cataclysm: (small rework, on close mechanic) on creation: impact+ puncture status (no dmg) just rift transition effect on edge: rift transition (of often state of rift updates needs max/per sec (once per sec for example) on close (implosion) --> recasting: quickly shrinks bubble to minimal size. takes away 10% enemy active hp (true dmg) of all enemies inside the cataclysm. 2nd part (explosion): upon reaching minimal range it explodes (area of explosion is intial cataclysm area) --> dealing puncutre + blast dmg (25/75) for each sec cataclysm was active +1% dmg 10% of the hp taken away by implosion, is added as dmg each enemy kill adds 2% max hp dmg --> (base dmg + implosion dmg + (%target max hp*enemy killed)) *(1%*sec) example (values just for simplicity): 1000 base dmg, 10 affected enmies by "implosion" (each enemy having 1000 health), 5 enemies killed, duration active = 25sec --> (1000+ (1000*0,1*10*0,1)+ (2% max hp*5))* (1,25) = 1375 dmg + 12.5% max hp --> how much dmg it deals is difficult to say as it has many factors (enemy active hp, enemy max hp, enemy armor --> which are also all affected by rift transitioning effect --> alot of rift transition makes dmg "weaker" as active and max hp is lower (but makes it overall easier to kill because of that --> base dmg is more relevant) i think these changes would make limbo dmg overall stages (enemy lvl) more consistent. cataclysm depending on fine tuning can be used to "nuke" to some extent while its maximum dmg output will never be reached with "nuke" build. The cataclysm edge will never kill approching targets (like it is atm in lower lvls). the only time it can kill an enemy instatnly is if he has below 10% max hp. banish is useable across all stages (it can be used to strip armor and cc while inside cataclysm, making stasis less "needed") --> adds more relevlance to "banish" gameplay. the rift transition effect (stagger forward/backward) makes it so that without stasis active the cataclysm edge pulls enmies inside on entering or pushing them out on leaving. thinking about those interactions (also previously noted with how stasis has a counter synergy with banish cc (to some degree) atm. Stasis: not instantly stasis: over 1,5sec (or whatever double duration of staggeranimation is) slows gradually down till "frozen" (0%-100% "slow"). when stasis is cancelled or runs out of time they regain their speed over half of "slowing till freeze" duration (100%-0% slow) the most simple is to make neither of that affected by mods. more complex and maybe fun would it get if it is. strength for amount of slow %/ duration affected. and duration for how long it takes to freeze--> would work with both stasis iterations (the old one as it is single cast, or the toggle that i asked for) either way this would make + duration take the time to reach stasis longer. + strength would make the slow/time stronger (so it reaches stasis quicker). worst is + duration - strength and best is -duration + strength as it generally sounds like a downside, the 2nd part on stasis cancel/run out, makes up for it (enmies are longer affected by it after it ran out and take longer to recover their speed), aswell as the stagger compartment on entering leaving rift beeing "prolonged" by slow so it should overall feel the same. (to some degree even better depending on mod configuartion) Edited March 7, 2020 by BloodyEy3 shifting stuff around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZeromusx Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Still a little difficult to follow, but honestly, all of it feels unnecessary. There's one change that I would do to Limbo, and only to make him better in a party setting: Share his passive with allies. The biggest headache when playing Limbo or playing with a Limbo isn't his survivability or nullifiers. He can simply dodge into the rift and be invulnerable forever and the player can drop into Operator mode to still screw with enemies not in the rift. No, the biggest headache with Limbo is how much other players hate playing with you when you're on Limbo. To resolve that problem, simply sharing his passive with the party whenever Limbo is present would make everyone's lives easier. But it should only be shared if Limbo is in the party. Edited January 4, 2020 by xZeromusx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space0ddity Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) toggles fook up energy regen, and have an antisynergy with void energy regen, making it a nerf banish is already radial riftsurge is already overtuned and does too much, take that league of legends tier balancing out of here cataclysm is totally fine as it is limbo is the strongest cc frame in the game, and if not the strongest certainly the most reliable. he does not need another rework or another buff, and since he relies on his weapons to kill effectively, he’s infinitely more balanced than he was after his rework (press 4 to win) or the days where he ruined the days of terrible players (lol enjoy your gun NOW dummy) all this “rework” adds is more text to his abilities. go home. Edited January 4, 2020 by Space0ddity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 The problem with that is that it would make the whole squad invicble more or less invincble at all times and since warframe abilites go through the rift it seems like not a ver healthy idea (for gameplay). Probably would result in every squad consists of a limbo and 3 high dmg warframes that just sit in rift forever not restricted by area or duration and spam their abilies. 1 Possible direction to implent that would be to mark his portal that spwans upon limbo dash and make its duration as long as limbo is in the rift. This way people could find the portal and enter as long as Limbo is in the rift. Upon Limbo leaving the rift they can stay for the duration of banish inside the rift. vor einer Stunde schrieb xZeromusx: but honestly, all of it feels unnecessary. It is, its sole purpose is to make his active gameplay, so besides casting 4+2 and stand inside and wait for objective to be over, more viable and fluent. Kinda explained in the What would change section. i mean u can gladly go into Simulacrum and do the dash+1+2+3+1 combo and tell me how much energy and time you use and what the result is. Small hint: 0,75+1+1+0,75+1 +the dashing animation and 25+50+50+25+50 without any mods.To make it even worthwhile you need maxed fleeting, maxed primed continuety, maxed overextend and Natural Talent (4mod spaces used)---> 0,75+0,5+0,5+0,75+0,5 and 100 energy or with Quicker combo but more vunerability (more often out of rift): dash+1+2+dash (+1+dash) + 25+50+25 energy costs. And this doesnt even count in Riftsurge Augment (additional 3cast at end of each combo to get the benefit). While all of this can be achieved with Cataclysm and stasis, rendering 1 (besides sortie defense/defection) and 3 (unless augment which is kinda weak) useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 vor 2 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: toggles fook up energy regen, and have an antisynergy with void energy regen, making it a nerf Not equinox night toggle. You still gain energy/sec from focus school and rift and everything else, it just drains flat per enemy in range. And in gerneral its supposed to be a nerf (which u can reduce by actually playing (killing foes) aswell as useing rift surge instead of stasis (buff/debuff) thing vor 3 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: banish is already radial no its not, its a cone its only radial on riftsurge (upon leaving rift) vor 5 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: riftsurge is already overtuned and does too much, take that league of legends tier balancing out of here how and where ? it tunes out the cataclysm downside since people on edge will evnetually leave rift, which performs its radial banish. The banish combo is not realyl practically (look comment above) Also look at any new Warframes. All have semi invunerbility, semi Aoe nuke, and a strong buff or debuff vor 8 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: cataclysm is totally fine as it is it is since people use it with min range/ max duration for defense or max range/max Duration for survival (grineer+infested), but upon changing riftsurge the shrinking cataclysm and as such continously entering and leaving rift interaction makes its difficult to actually kill enemies. And as already stated the shrinking mechanics kinda renders its Augment which otherwise would be great useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Everyone has mentioned Nullifiers, so while I haven't read through everything, make you secondary a good weapon and use the miter with its syndicate augment. Gives you 90% chance to destroy a nullifier bubble on contact. It's completely essential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 vor einer Stunde schrieb SpicyDinosaur: It's completely essential. not entirly true, but yes it can indeed help. But you can even intercept them without miter, just get close and personal Without miter it helps to press riftsurge, as cataclysm dissapears on contact, which will trigger radial banish from riftsurge. As far as i know Nullifiers bubbles dont pull banished targets out of rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xZeromusx Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said: Everyone has mentioned Nullifiers, so while I haven't read through everything, make you secondary a good weapon and use the miter with its syndicate augment. Gives you 90% chance to destroy a nullifier bubble on contact. It's completely essential. Or just use a beam weapon side arm with a lot of fire rate. Damage numbers are meaningless for the nullifier bubbles as they have a max and min damage. So multishot, fire rate, and a held beam tears them apart reliably as well, and you can then use your favorite primary weapon. Cycron is my personal favorite for nullifier bubbles, and if you want to put in the effort, which I probably will in the future, you can build a kitgun that does the same thing, with infinite ammo and an arcane that boosts its reload. Really, there are a million ways to rip apart a nullifier. Edited January 4, 2020 by xZeromusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space0ddity Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 6 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said: Not equinox night toggle. You still gain energy/sec from focus school and rift and everything else, it just drains flat per enemy in range. And in gerneral its supposed to be a nerf (which u can reduce by actually playing (killing foes) aswell as useing rift surge instead of stasis (buff/debuff) thing no its not, its a cone its only radial on riftsurge (upon leaving rift) how and where ? it tunes out the cataclysm downside since people on edge will evnetually leave rift, which performs its radial banish. The banish combo is not realyl practically (look comment above) Also look at any new Warframes. All have semi invunerbility, semi Aoe nuke, and a strong buff or debuff it is since people use it with min range/ max duration for defense or max range/max Duration for survival (grineer+infested), but upon changing riftsurge the shrinking cataclysm and as such continously entering and leaving rift interaction makes its difficult to actually kill enemies. And as already stated the shrinking mechanics kinda renders its Augment which otherwise would be great useless 1. i dont care even the least about equinox’s existence or about her toggle, and it’ll certainly break the flow of limbo if it stops being flat 2. i dont want even a single one of these tiny baby changes, this changes literally NOTHING about limbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) vor 27 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: 1. i dont care even the least about equinox’s existence or about her toggle, and it’ll certainly break the flow of limbo if it stops being flat it certainly doesnt. you actually did not understand it. flat 10energy drain for each enemy in the rift/ in range (while noted Numbers are just what i found seemingly okish, could aswell be 5,6,7 or whatever) vor 27 Minuten schrieb Space0ddity: 2. i dont want even a single one of these tiny baby changes, this changes literally NOTHING about limbo. 1. its not supposed to change limbo, he does the exact same he does now, the same way, the same combo, for easy gameplay (besides going afk part) 2. You dont even play Limbo, so why even comment Edited January 4, 2020 by BloodyEy3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeBadger Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 going through enemies, should enfeeble or grant a soul like the wisp, also tranferense should give various options as a operator using limboframe under each mode, this means that limbo should get more than two spectral modes and teleportations which also benefit the tenno and team members in ur party, i think also that they can make sure that some walls and trickery is added or magic without calling up inventory slots, or relying on cataclysm and immortality if they are willing to wall-latch and use their operators, I DONT WANT TO SEE MY WARFRAME JUST DOING NOTHING if i tranfer at least allow limbo to remain in cataclysm temporarily there can be some pulsating waves or shifting modes cahnge with abilities, and vortex which grant the amps more side-effects to each school ideally things like bonus defense and survival, will be cool but its not to be relied upon because not every tenno will want to jumpout for a bonus, so it should be hidden as passive techniques and combo / tranferance merits, gaining focus points under limbo should translate to reload and acrobatic bonuses. teleportation and loot reacts, vaccum strenght, animations changes new weapons, summoning, limbo powers to call up axes and knives, grotesque hat tricks, shadow and warp used to trap and grapple, i think there can be a new things added to melee under each ability / portals shoot or cause freezing: statuses, burn, or can be used to access weapons and swords. converting igranades, and items into endo, orokin means that limbo gets a few new finishers a new school or set of passives, kinetics, and laws, maybe added to current mods and schools herritage: should make some control of abilities and operators schools modes, aughments visuals are stronger or poses unique powers ibased on arcanes, total madurai mods equiped, blackheart, and special weapon robotic which like nekros we limbo can jail enemies and use emotes to learn, and skills to master outside of combat there is a need for more visuals and cover for minning and fishing, out of body experience. so what is missing is organic, most of the limbo worst feature is just dashing foward and recasting, until new things are added to each planet and modes loot, story rewards could be something useful for a limbo to earn savage or prime ON/OFF cosmetics, and glyphs, opperator amps, kitparts, and features for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space0ddity Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said: Good that comment then xd 1. its not supposed to change limbo, he does the exact same he does now, the same way, the same combo, for easy gameplay (besides going afk part) 2. You dont even play Limbo, so why even comment because i do have experience with limbo, both before and after his rework, and when timestop was global and after it changed. i know what i’m talking about when i say a rework like this does nothing and would be underappreciated. i would hardly call it a rework, mostly a patch really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 vor 1 Minute schrieb Space0ddity: i would hardly call it a rework, mostly a patch really. That is literally what its supposed to be. I like what Limbo does, i just dislike 1 and 3, and how absurtly outshined it is by 4+2 then go afk in 90% of mission. so i changed/ revamped them slightly not changing their indentiy more a QoL Buff to make it actualyl worthwhile useing. What it would do for cataclysm is give clear areas of rift bound enmies (for cataclysm atleast) aswell as reduce the amount of "accidental banished" and overall make it more clear who is banished and for how long, since riftsurge refreshes timer, so there arent like 5 different banish and riftsurge timers that you cannot see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndouRaiton Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Your changes are alright, but the only thing i really want for Limbo is an augment for stasis that freezes ONLY HIS projectiles as i miss that part as it was helpful for some things and generally fun to mess around with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 @SnakeBadger Honestly! WTF are you on about ? 1. Did u even read past the headline? 2. Literally what are you on about 90% makes no sense, its kinda just "i want limbo to do magic" 3. how difficult and simply mind breaking/ confusing would that be in public squads? operator isnt affected by rift to stop griefing from limbo players (atleast thats probably the most likly reason, maybe some lore aswell) the affinity, weapon and all that stuff... i dont even want to answer it, you are playing a whole differnt game called fantasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeBadger Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BloodyEy3 said: @SnakeBadger Honestly! WTF are you on about ? 1. Did u even read past the headline? 2. Literally what are you on about 90% makes no sense, its kinda just "i want limbo to do magic" 3. how difficult and simply mind breaking/ confusing would that be in public squads? operator isnt affected by rift to stop griefing from limbo players (atleast thats probably the most likly reason, maybe some lore aswell) the affinity, weapon and all that stuff... i dont even want to answer it, you are playing a whole differnt game called fantasy obviously brainstorming for new content creators to use i dont got as much time as you to read, so dont waste ur time getting mad at me am a really busy person in how i approach content development for more than just the central purpose otherwise people get run over. transference takes forever and requires lenses and BS to even feel rewarding, all the schools are there and limbo is not adding anything special for the operator other than skipping mode change when rifting but that TAKES FOREVER so am like well i rather play umbra, otherwise my warframe is just gonna sitthere like a dumbass, so in/out status is just garbage for OPs, i havent. little by little am excited to read this whole post, but S#&$ i have to say is deep, yeah AOE with limbo though i wanna see the range of animations and weapons begin to change, sadness comes from reloading and melee as limbo, its just so typical, a guy who can teleport shoulnt have to get killed easily, other games have enemies and summuning magic, calling up a scythe or specter demon, a light or diety channeling force, ivara gots the artemis bow, what about limbo? do you see him getting a special weapon or feature? archwing ideas? reading later/ideas are easy to forget. Edited January 4, 2020 by SnakeBadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeBadger Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) there can be a ephemeral triggers limbo and makes upward surges, long hair goes upward, mode change is split eye is catchanging, cheshire cat and limbo are very alike, tranferance operators are affected by mode and abilites as they near the wa4rframe for support and changes the in/out functional vortexes, and modifications of the amp / reload feature of focus, boosters, manipulating and bending elements and items not just the body and planes, will allow limbo passive traits to grant some interesting principles per tileset, vampire mode is not enough, this will make rift / teleport more interesting visually thinking of how this will add a light aspect like how there are many shadow and light based warframes who use the night and day modes, inverted settings appear to make the rain and gore more interesting squish factor for pickups and transference gameplay such as thunder transferance, shots, and reload mechanics for limbo/ operators, my cat is crazy. girls can split into five balls and limbo can only catacly once there there is no change, ur ideas for cataclysm need more visual enhancements which can be randomized based on the other abiliteis active, transferance, tileset, and give some team-bonuses, the explosion should leave some residual at times temporal portals teleport to random locations and nodes left behind allow for extensions, trick is to be less predictable with suggestion ending up more random, the replay is open to intrigue, i think not just a ninjutsu limbo teddybear, but something added to teleportations across walls, doors, and enemies will need variations or temporary effects which cause radiation, or elemental, adding to reload doubtap feature to release pent up energy, sucktion, and charges to shoot a beam or special summon or alchemy, is where ember left off, i think limbo can do better, but is exposing his physical body is not spiritual enough. pets get left behind, operator can be useful but its not required or unique /rewarding is like 2 out of 9 factor when using transference, focus points mad regular, ideas. Edited January 4, 2020 by SnakeBadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 vor einer Stunde schrieb AndouRaiton: Your changes are alright, but the only thing i really want for Limbo is an augment for stasis that freezes ONLY HIS projectiles as i miss that part as it was helpful for some things and generally fun to mess around with. When the changes happened i felt the same way. But you cannot use it in squads. Imagine sitting there stopping ur bullets and ur team just kill them infront of.. kinda frustrating even more so while u sacrifice a modspot for that Maybe just automatically implemant it when u go in a mission solo (so noone can join you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeBadger Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 2020-01-04 at 5:49 PM, BloodyEy3 said: When the changes happened i felt the same way. But you cannot use it in squads. Imagine sitting there stopping ur bullets and ur team just kill them infront of.. kinda frustrating even more so while u sacrifice a modspot for that Maybe just automatically implemant it when u go in a mission solo (so noone can join you). Yes some mods and augments are wasteful and could at least use new features or passives or should be moved on to link as the set onuses do, graphic and sfx could appreciate a few updates especially if the atmospheres affected the riftplanes you'd encounter anomalies monsters tools and collectibles, players are otherwise immortal at level 1 limbo a set of passives might workout like the railjack skillsets per Warframe to augment customize and give bountiful missions adequate tribute points to allocate to make good use of special skins and cosmetics built in packs of vfx sfx like stances can be upgraded terminals fortnight's highly customizy, the limbo's running Mars get flame traits annoying wisp and transfered reload , so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Am 4.1.2020 um 11:59 schrieb BloodyEy3: leaving old stuff here so its not "lost" 2nd spoiler Edited March 6, 2020 by BloodyEy3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) Am 4.1.2020 um 11:59 schrieb BloodyEy3: pushing stuff around so first text is updated. leaving old stuff here so its not "lost" 3. spoiler Edited March 6, 2020 by BloodyEy3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeaboopotato Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Most of the things you added here are incredibly unnecessary and doesnt really solve any of limbo's problems what limbo really needs is a way to make him less aggravating to play with. People have limbo cause they ruin their gameplay even if limbo is amazing. What a rework should aim to do is not just buff a frame and go but to also solve their problems. What i really want to see is a way for limbo's passive to not hinder allies and so far the only itteration of that was the idea of making banish to create a portal in cataclysm which will make a small pocket to the opposite dimension for anyone to shoot through. I want to see more limbo rework ideas like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyEy3 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) vor 19 Stunden schrieb weeaboopotato: Most of the things you added here are incredibly unnecessary and doesnt really solve any of limbo's problems what limbo really needs is a way to make him less aggravating to play with Am 3.1.2020 um 20:08 schrieb BloodyEy3: Conclusion: Good overall gamestated. Extremly strong and usefull vs infected and grineer and in listed mission types but can be difficult vs Corrupted and Corpus (nullifiers and some enemies ingore the rift). Feels good to play if you want to mainly use 4 and 2 and wait inside till timer runs out, but really jagged and slow if you decide to use other abilities aswell (to this point later more) thats how i basically opened up my thread, which kinda shows that most are not needed changes. he is fine as he is. If i had to pinpoint 1 aspect that actually needs/has to be addressed its the Rift effect visability and Sound. --> those doesnt have to be mine, anything could work it just needs to be addressed. most of the stuff i added are QoL or neat extras. I tried to make him overall more "fluent" and give his playstyle 1-2 new aspects. (while some more "extreme" changes are just brainstorming, the main riftsurge compartment or the updated Dmg compartment --> thats why its in fan concept) Am 3.1.2020 um 20:08 schrieb BloodyEy3: What wouldnt Change : Playstyle and Gameplay would 90% be conserved. Limbo would still have same Faction and Mission Strong points as none of these would be changed (they are mainly cause of Rift itself and Cataclysm + Stasis, which both are barely changed) Am 3.1.2020 um 20:08 schrieb BloodyEy3: What would change : its Easier to banish actually selected Targets/Areas because of Banish Tap Mechanic, mainly making defection, rescue and Sortie Defense "easier" aswell as stopping/reducing accidential Banishes. The Rift Portal on Banish gives Allies an option to enter the Rift on their own command aswell as making it quicker to transfer to the riftplane for limbo himself so he can kill banished targets. (Rift dash is kinda cool, but for combat just irritating especially on some maps as it displaces you, aswell as kinda making the 1handed action of Banish useless as you need to dash which doesnt let u perform most tasks afterwards, aswell as negating the knockdown effect of Banish since u are performaning the dash animation and repositioning afterwards for most of the effect Duration). Am 3.1.2020 um 20:08 schrieb BloodyEy3: Through the Changes of Banish, Stasis and Rift Surge the overall Gameplay is more fast pasted and active. As Above stated Stasis makes it hard to stay idle for a long period of time atleast when its activated, even in the most common use together with cataclysm for defensive misisons it would need constant killing of the targets that are and the edge to maintain energy. Since the Cataclysm doesnt shrink anymore, the enemy dont leave and enter the rift constantly (so no extreme stasis drain) aswell as no need for riftsurge to counter the enemies leavign the rift on the edge. Which saves both time (casting time) and energy. Am 19.2.2020 um 18:57 schrieb BloodyEy3: i think both sound and visual changes would make each on their own it easier to distinguish what plane of existence you are in atm, aswell as the enemies you are looking at. Both together would enhance eachother --> sound + color, less sound + monochrome. Both effects fit well with the differnent planes theme aswell. And the monochrome state of not interacatable stuff makes it easier for Players who just started playing Limbo (as they see on first sight, thats grey while rest is color --> gotta change plane to interact with it) Am 28.2.2020 um 17:43 schrieb BloodyEy3: i think these changes would make limbo dmg overall stages (enemy lvl) more consistent. cataclysm depending on fine tuning can be used to "nuke" to some extent while its maximum dmg output will never be reached with "nuke" build. The cataclysm edge will never kill approching targets (like it is atm in lower lvls). the only time it can kill an enemy instatnly is if he has below 10% max hp. banish is useable across all stages (it can be used to strip armor and cc while inside cataclysm, making stasis less "needed") --> adds more relevlance to "banish" gameplay. the rift transition effect (stagger forward/backward) makes it so that without stasis active the cataclysm edge pulls enmies inside on entering or pushing them out on leaving. Am 28.2.2020 um 17:43 schrieb BloodyEy3: thinking about those interactions (also previously noted with how stasis has a counter synergy with banish cc (to some degree) atm. Stasis: not instantly stasis: over 1,5sec (or whatever double duration of staggeranimation is) slows gradually down till "frozen" (0%-100% "slow"). when stasis is cancelled or runs out of time they regain their speed over half of "slowing till freeze" duration (100%-0% slow) (reason why i added the stasis in "finisher"open position on banish while stasis active, just another way to kinda work around that) So as you can see my objectiv with this is not really ment to solve/adress the "problem", you speak off. Since i dont actually feel like thats a problem. There always will be synergy or anti synergy with sth. Playing around those "downsides" is sth that can be fun, atleast aslong as those downsides arent too intrusive. And i think since the stasis "bulletfreeze" rework, he doesnt really is that anymore. the only time he can be intrusive is max range duration builds, so when you use those builds as limbo you should be more carefull with ur abilites. As it can be near impossilbe to escape max range cataclysm on some maps, aswell as its super easy to accidentally banish an enemy or ally u didnt even know you did or intended to. Hoping into a open mission and playing as if you play solo is always bad. If you wanna play like u are solo, play solo i still tried to factor it in mildly thought. Reason why i changed banish (so less accidental banishes) and lowered range on cataclysm --> less range = less intrusive (for the most part atleast), aswell as changed the "radial banish" on rift surge so it doesnt "spread" the rift on leaving (just holds them riftbound), and pushed "spreading rift" on active compartment (useing banish on riftsurged enemy). this is also adressed by banish creating a portal (makes it easier for limbo himself to enter the rift after casting banish aswell for teammates). The Rift portal being able to be shot through and transport bullets is actually a great idea, Didnt even think about it in this "context". so the only way left for limbo to "troll" that way is to banish (wait till duration nearly run out) and then press 3 --> at that point people kinda had enough "time" to enter rift via riftportal. The more troll in this regard is more 4+3 (since cataclysm doesnt leave a portal on its explosion ) to change this you could push a portal to it asewell, or add a synergy between 4+3 (for example it consumes riftsurge for extra dmg) the other way how limbo can troll or be intrsuve are all based around the rift itself. So to change those the rift needs to be changes or an ability needs to narrow down Rift and normal plane (for example his 3 --> affected targets take 35% cross plane dmg). That is only 1 aspect. next problem is that you cant interact with consoles and so on while in rift/ it is in cataclysm. how to fix that ? allow everything to be interacted cross rift ? the moment either one of those "simple" changes are implemented there is no reason not to play limbo and everyone can play limbo. 4+3+2 map is cced for everyone. everyone still plays as always. (for reduced dmg which doesnt matter as the whole map is cced (and with rift surge augment would then "counter" that dmg reduction). conclusion: is there a really healthy way to balance Limbo around "teamplay" without changing rift ? i dont think so and changing Rift would change Limbo his theme and playstyle extremly drastically aswell (which is not essentially what i want, since i like limbo for what he is --> you can kinda grasp my point for this in "rift generalization" section). Edited March 1, 2020 by BloodyEy3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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