Exalted weapons are no longer good

[FletcherGtx]

The exalted ones are really obsolete, normal weapons have better damage with meele 3.0

 

What happens that meele's exalted weapons are not good in all the examples and tried the build of these normal prime rmas like the nikana prime without riveting with meele 3.0 and good build is better than the exalted exalibur sword, also the venka prime meele 3.0 with good build and without riven is better than the claws of valkyr prime and the only regular exalted is the iron cane that is no longer good either of wukong prime would be fine, a rework of these exalted weapons that do not work well since approved many build of these exalted weapons and do not give good result, it would be very good to polish them and in advance thanks for the meele 3.0 which is very good

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by FletcherGtx

[(PSN)BlightDragon89]

I have not noticed that they are significantly weaker. That being said, if you are feeling that hey are weaker, try looking up a youtube guide on the ones you want to use. I find that exalted weapons are a bit more nich then other weapons. They are really about synergy between the exalted weapon and the rest of the warframes kit. That might be way is tripping you up.

[FletcherGtx]

hace 3 minutos, (PS4)BlightDragon89 dijo:

I have not noticed that they are significantly weaker. That being said, if you are feeling that hey are weaker, try looking up a youtube guide on the ones you want to use. I find that exalted weapons are a bit more nich then other weapons. They are really about synergy between the exalted weapon and the rest of the warframes kit. That might be way is tripping you up.

I have done many build of these exalted weapons trying to improve them but they are not compared at all

[NinjaKitsune56]

20 minutes ago, FletcherGtx said:

I have done many build of these exalted weapons trying to improve them but they are not compared at all

Valkyr/Prime's talons are fairly weak, I admit. I've had better luck simply shredding the enemy with Dual Keres or Dual Raza, and not just because I've turned them into crit blenders with their rivens.

[lukinu_u]

Haven't watched the video, but Exalted weapons are bad since Blood Rush exist.
Sure, Exalted Weapons could compete with a few status oriented weapons with Conditon Overload, but crit or hybrid build (on weapons that allow it) was super good and it was possible because of Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, and they are not usable on Exalted weapons.

With melee 3.0 and different mods not stacking together anymore (Blood Rush with other crit mods, Conditon Overload with Pressure Point, etc...), the build diversity felt down and hybrid build is by far what provide the best output, but only if you can use combo based mods, which isn't possible on Exalted Weapons, so they aren't really bad, but can't use mods that make a weapon strong, it at simple as this.

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

Exalted weapons are more situational than anything else, Excalibur's exalted blade is mostly useful against sentient enemies as they struggle to adapt to it. Otherwise standard weapons would be more useful overall. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1. GHS is clickbait.

2. The only exalted weaponry that is actually obsolete are the exalted melee weapons.

Exalted Blade is fine. Still scales well past level 100.

Serene Storm is a very distant second that only benefits from the fact that it never required the combo multiplier. And it’s augment is trash.

Hysteria and Iron Staff are genuinely worthless. The amount of damage they lost is insane and the fact that they didn’t even get a damage increase to compensate like for the rest of Melee is dumbfounding.

Edited February 6, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

I have not noticed that they are significantly weaker. 

Then you have been living under a rock. Iron Staff went from literally melting enemies to barely scratching them.

[YUNoJump]

Give Exalted melee the ability to equip Blood Rush and Combo mods and they should be fine. IMO that's all they need to do.

The fact that they can't equip those mods is a relic of old design philosophy that became obsolete when Condition Overload was allowed to be equipped on Exalted melee, and became even more obsolete when Melee 3.0 cemented CO and BR as the two giants of endgame melee.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

Give Exalted melee the ability to equip Blood Rush and Combo mods and they should be fine. IMO that's all they need to do.

The fact that they can't equip those mods is a relic of old design philosophy that became obsolete when Condition Overload was allowed to be equipped on Exalted melee, and became even more obsolete when Melee 3.0 cemented CO and BR as the two giants of endgame melee.

Eeeeh, I have found zero CO builds that perform better than my crit builds with Primed pressure point. So to call it an endgame giant is a pretty big overstatement.

[(PSN)BlightDragon89]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eeeeh, I have found zero CO builds that perform better than my crit builds with Primed pressure point. So to call it an endgame giant is a pretty big overstatement.

I would more say that it is definitely the end game meta, but being meta does not mean its the only way. If you don't like it, other builds are obviously viable.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

I would more say that it is definitely the end game meta, but being meta does not mean its the only way. If you don't like it, other builds are obviously viable.

Being meta implies it’s the best option, but I have literally yet to see any proof as to why it should be considered “the best option”.

[TearsOfTomorrow]

Yeah, this is horsecrap, plain and simple. Oh sure, those regular melee weapons you mentioned can indeed pump out higher numbers, meaning that, against a level 150 corrupted heavy gunner with AI pauses in the simulacrum, they're gonna take 0.005 seconds less to score the kill. However, that fails to account for 3 factors:

1) You're never going to fight such an enemy in any realistic game mode.

2) If you do go long enough in Survival to run into such an enemy, the difference in kill time is not going to be significant. It WOULD be significant if you were to face a PACK of corrupted heavy gunners, in which case every fraction of a second counts, because you need to kill them all before they start chain-knocking you down... But guess what? That's not how Warframe spawns enemies: rather, what you will face is a pack of trash enemies with just one or two heavy units among them. And to deal with such a group, most (properly modded) exalted weapons are more than sufficient. 

3) In any given realistic mission, with an actual objective attached to it, kill time rarely is the most important factor (unless you're "competing" with your teammates to be the "I'm the best player because I got all the kills", but if you're doing that you're stupid and I don't account for stupid in my arguments). Rather, utility effects/abilities that directly contribute to whatever you're trying to accomplish in the mission are MUCH more valuable: in this context, Excal's infinite punch through and ability to break crates through walls, Mesa's ability to create a "everyone who enters this radius gets locked on and sprayed with bullet" area, Wukong's big range that lets him knock down everyone in an area (TWO areas in fact, courtesy of the clone), Baruuk's ability to blow away anyone he doesn't put to sleep, Ivara's alt fire that lets her use the special arrows from her Quiver for no additional energy cost, and Titania's evasiveness and mobility are going to prove integral to a number of strategies and tactical approaches in plenty of situations, on top of dealing 10000 damage. Whereas the weapons buffed by the new system can deal 10005 damage, but they really only have that.

So no, just because regular weapons had their damage increased it doesn't mean that exalted weapons are suddenly bad. In fact, it's quite the opposite: these improvements to regular weapons have made better, in terms of game design, the exalted weapons too, in that they've made them more engaging by way of adding an element of choice to them. Mod your exalted to emphasize the utility aspect, and your regular weapons for sheer min-maxed damage, and then switch between the two depending on what the situation at hand calls for. It's called strategic thinking: the issue with Grind Hard Squad, and many other such youtubers, is that their videos often encourage players to discard strategic thinking and instead rely on a "THIS IS THE BEST BUILD EVER USE THIS AND YOU'LL WIN AT EVERYTHING" kind of mentality, which is not what this game was designed to do. Such people only look at the raw damage numbers but again, those are not all there is to missions, and how to best use the tools at your disposal to complete them.

The only point I will concede is that Valkyr's claws are quickly growing stale and outdated... But then again, Valkyr as a whole is growing stale and outdated. Her kit was designed around a specific mentality, but the game has since evolved past said mentality, making it obsolete and Valkyr along with it. She definitely could use a rework.

[(PSN)BlightDragon89]

11 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

 

The only point I will concede is that Valkyr's claws are quickly growing stale and outdated... But then again, Valkyr as a whole is growing stale and outdated. Her kit was designed around a specific mentality, but the game has since evolved past said mentality, making it obsolete and Valkyr along with it. She definitely could use a rework.

Fully agree. Since they seem to be slowly working their way though the older frames and reworking them to fit the current game, I'm sure this will happen sooner or later.

 

I also dont really like saying there is only one way to play. As you said, the game is not designed with that in mind. With this many weapons and ability combinations, there are many builds to try out. I point people to youtube just to get an idea of how to build by looking though other peoples builds. Once you understand the damage matchups, you will be better able to create end game effective builds that match your individual playstyle.

And just for clarification, as I should have stated this better. I use the term 'meta' simply to indicate the style of builds that seem to be commonly used at this time.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

One easy fix is that  melee weapons and exalted weapons need to SHARE the SAME combo counter.   

When im on Valkyr and slashing through hordes of enemies with my venka claws and I want to go even more berzerk and use hysteria my combo counter gets reset to 0..............

My awesome crits go straight into the trash and I start over.... 

------------

Im using valkyr all the time, every day.   Nothing stale about her.  She still kicks hella ass.   You might be bored of her abilities but thats your problem not her,  thats why theres 40+ other frames.  

Zipline is the only thing that is garbage.  

Edited February 6, 2020 by (PS4)AbBaNdOn_

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

25 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

 

So no, just because regular weapons had their damage increased it doesn't mean that exalted weapons are suddenly bad. In fact, it's quite the opposite: these improvements to regular weapons have made better, in terms of game design, the exalted weapons too, in that they've made them more engaging by way of adding an element of choice to them. Mod your exalted to emphasize the utility aspect, and your regular weapons for sheer min-maxed damage, and then switch between the two depending on what the situation at hand calls for. It's called strategic thinking: the issue with Grind Hard Squad, and many other such youtubers, is that their videos often encourage players to discard strategic thinking and instead rely on a "THIS IS THE BEST BUILD EVER USE THIS AND YOU'LL WIN AT EVERYTHING" kind of mentality, which is not what this game was designed to do. Such people only look at the raw damage numbers but again, those are not all there is to missions, and how to best use the tools at your disposal to complete them.

I genuinely with an undying fury hate when people say “Oh exalted weapons have different utility, so it’s ok for them to do terrible damage”. There is zero benefit to Iron Staffs large range if it literally can’t kill anything. There’s no point in using Serene Storm for its CC because Ragdoll CC is worst CC, just use his 2. Literally everybody would stop using Artemis bows instant cast of quiver is a utility feature that shouldn’t require casting a 4th ability to use exclusively use with no additional benefit, that’s why the weapons so strong. Dodging enemies in razorwing would be completely pointless if you’re suddenly unable to kill the enemies because your gun is too weak.

The very idea that DE should just leave exalted melees to rot because “they offer unique functions” is downright insane. How would you feel if DE nerfed every Damage ability in the game on the simple merit of “Oh well they all deal damage in different unique ways so it only made sense”? Cap Equinox to only dealing 10 damage with main because it scales off enemies killed. Make Virulence only scale in range instead of damage for every mutation stack. Make WhipClaw only puncture proc enemies and only scale off Melee Prowess and no other melee modes. Gee, those damage ability ideas must be pretty f***ing amazing since their so unique.

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)Duke DEFCON]

2 hours ago, FletcherGtx said:

The exalted ones are really obsolete, normal weapons have better damage with meele 3.0

 

What happens that meele's exalted weapons are not good in all the examples and tried the build of these normal prime rmas like the nikana prime without riveting with meele 3.0 and good build is better than the exalted exalibur sword, also the venka prime meele 3.0 with good build and without riven is better than the claws of valkyr prime and the only regular exalted is the iron cane that is no longer good either of wukong prime would be fine, a rework of these exalted weapons that do not work well since approved many build of these exalted weapons and do not give good result, it would be very good to polish them and in advance thanks for the meele 3.0 which is very good

 

Dex pixia and Balefire are VERY good. I think Ivaras bow is decent, but could use a bit of an upgrade. I utterly hate exalted blade.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)Taz Deduction

[TearsOfTomorrow]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Cap Equinox to only dealing 10 damage with main because it scales off enemies killed.

This, and all the other things you said, in no way pertain to what I was saying. At what point in my post did I suggest nerfing anything? You're clearly doing that thing people do on the internet, when they know they have no argument and so start putting words in other people's mouth. And I frankly have no interested in that.

Besides, your constant screaming that "these weapons cannot kill enemies!" doesn't make it true. These weapons cannot kill a group of level 150 corrupted heavy gunners AS FAST AS "META" WEAPONS CAN. Meaning that:

1) They CAN kill such enemies with proper modding, just not as efficiently. And again, in most scenarios the difference in kill speed is not going to matter.

2) They're still perfectly adequate to kill trash enemies. And no matter how much the likes of Brozime like to say "trash enemies don't matter", it's still a fact that they do matter as far as the game's spawning algorithm is concerned. Because again, the game is set to spawn a large group of trash enemies with just one or two heavy units among them. That's how the game works. The ability to kill a pack of 10 corrupted heavy gunners is what really doesn't matter, simply because it's never going to come up in actual gameplay.

So upon seeing the group of trash enemies from a distance, and noticing the heavies among them, you can totally shoot the heavies from afar with your primary, kill them, then turn on your exalted, rush in and kill the trash enemies. In no realistic situation of actual gameplay is this going to be "worse" than using a "meta" weapon, and in fact there might be cases where this is actually the superior option. For example, a guy could have a stellar riven for his primary, but no such luck with melee weapons, and maybe this guy cannot buy a stellar melee riven because guess what? Most people don't have 1k+ platinum handy to spend on a whim. Such a guy might decide to build a tanky Excal with an exalted modded for life steal (infinite punch through means hitting many trash enemies, thus regaining plenty of health), while relying on the stellar primary to kill the heavies. 

Who the hell are you, who the hell is Brozime, who the hell is Grind Hard Squad, to tell such a guy that playing this way is WRONG? Warframe is a PVE game with nothing on the line, and a rather easy one at that, so the concept of "meta" is empty and meaningless to begin with.

Thus, I stand by my point. Sheer damage numbers are not all there is to the game, and even if it was exalted weapons would still be perfectly adequate for the vast majority of the game's content. Don't let a professional click-baiter on Youtube tell you otherwise. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

39 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

This, and all the other things you said, in no way pertain to what I was saying. At what point in my post did I suggest nerfing anything? You're clearly doing that thing people do on the internet, when they know they have no argument and so start putting words in other people's mouth. And I frankly have no interested in that.

Besides, your constant screaming that "these weapons cannot kill enemies!" doesn't make it true. These weapons cannot kill a group of level 150 corrupted heavy gunners AS FAST AS "META" WEAPONS CAN. Meaning that:

1) They CAN kill such enemies with proper modding, just not as efficiently. And again, in most scenarios the difference in kill speed is not going to matter.

2) They're still perfectly adequate to kill trash enemies. And no matter how much the likes of Brozime like to say "trash enemies don't matter", it's still a fact that they do matter as far as the game's spawning algorithm is concerned. Because again, the game is set to spawn a large group of trash enemies with just one or two heavy units among them. That's how the game works. The ability to kill a pack of 10 corrupted heavy gunners is what really doesn't matter, simply because it's never going to come up in actual gameplay.

So upon seeing the group of trash enemies from a distance, and noticing the heavies among them, you can totally shoot the heavies from afar with your primary, kill them, then turn on your exalted, rush in and kill the trash enemies. In no realistic situation of actual gameplay is this going to be "worse" than using a "meta" weapon, and in fact there might be cases where this is actually the superior option. For example, a guy could have a stellar riven for his primary, but no such luck with melee weapons, and maybe this guy cannot buy a stellar melee riven because guess what? Most people don't have 1k+ platinum handy to spend on a whim. Such a guy might decide to build a tanky Excal with an exalted modded for life steal (infinite punch through means hitting many trash enemies, thus regaining plenty of health), while relying on the stellar primary to kill the heavies. 

Who the hell are you, who the hell is Brozime, who the hell is Grind Hard Squad, to tell such a guy that playing this way is WRONG? Warframe is a PVE game with nothing on the line, and a rather easy one at that, so the concept of "meta" is empty and meaningless to begin with.

Thus, I stand by my point. Sheer damage numbers are not all there is to the game, and even if it was exalted weapons would still be perfectly adequate for the vast majority of the game's content. Don't let a professional click-baiter on Youtube tell you otherwise. 

You suggested that DE keep exalted weapons from being improved because they offer “unique mechanics”. So by that logic they should just reduce all damage dealing abilities damage and give them mechanics that are useless if they don’t have the damage to back them up. Because that somehow makes them still “good” and “viable”.

Why would I use an exalted weapon, that both costs energy to cast and maintain (with a few exceptions), over my standard melee weapon if my melee weapons going to be the better choice and is completely free to use? If the weapon isn’t a viable choice, it doesn’t matter what it’s gimmick is.

If a weapon can kill a heavy unit, it can kill a trash mob. IDK why “It can kill only trash therefore it is good” is considered a valid mindset. Your weapon is there to kill things. If it’s not killing the things you need it to kill then it’s not doing it’s job and is worthless.

I’m sorry I wasn’t aware that it’s a sin to want things in this game to actually be usable beyond level 50. I was under the impression that everybody wanted the game to be good. But apparently there are some people that think making the player characters too weak to kill enemies is a positive change.

Your point is as shallow as the arguments you provided. I don’t need a Youtuber to tell me that a weapon actually has to deal significant damage to enemies for it to be good. That’s just common sense.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[TearsOfTomorrow]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So by that logic they should just reduce all damage dealing abilities damage and give them mechanics that are useless

Again, this is not what I said.

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m sorry I wasn’t aware that it’s a sin to want things in this game to actually be usable beyond level 50

Again, most or all exalted weapons are perfectly adequate beyond level 50.

You have no arguments, so you resort to false claims, personal attacks, and manipulation of what other people have said.

I have no interest whatsoever in humoring you any further. If you want to respond to this post with some more falsehoods and insults, feel free to. You'll still be wrong.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 minutes ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

Again, this is not what I said.

Again, most or all exalted weapons are perfectly adequate beyond level 50.

You have no arguments, so you resort to false claims, personal attacks, and manipulation of what other people have said.

I have no interest whatsoever in humoring you any further. If you want to respond to this post with some more falsehoods and insults, feel free to. You'll still be wrong.

Never said you did. I just implied that through your logic that conclusion would be reached.

Any exalted melee that’s not Exalted Blade falls off at level 80. I was referring to Warframes and weapons as a whole. We shouldn’t have our performance capped at half the maximum level we normally play at. I don’t care how “unique” an ability is. If it’s supposed to deal damage than it should be significant damage, and not gimped on its performance just because it has a gimmick.

I have yet to make a false claim. I have not manipulated what you said, I simply reached a conclusion that would be reached with your mindset on how DE should handle exalted weapons. I wanted you to know your argument is bad so I told you in an entertaining and angry manner. 
Now there’s the irony right there. Accusing me of false claims then ending your reply with a false claim.

Edited February 7, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[TearsOfTomorrow]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Any exalted melee that’s not Exalted Blade falls off at level 80. I was referring to Warframes and weapons as a whole. We shouldn’t have our performance capped at half the maximum level we normally play at.

The claim that people normally play at level 160 is false. The claim that exalted weapons "fall off" at level 80 is baseless, and you have yet to provide any evidence. Also you're still thinking in terms of raw damage in the simulacrum, as opposed to actual combat, which is proven by how you keep dismissing trash mobs: run any real mission, even an Arbitration Survival for 2 hours. Count the heavy units you face throughout the mission, and how many of them spawn at once. Then do the same for trash mobs. 

Your reasoning is not wrong, it's just rooted in unrealistic criteria. But if you're going to assume that such unrealistic criteria give you the right to claim that the concept of "meta" exists (it doesn't), or to tell people that their way of playing is wrong, that's what I have a problem with.

In a situation where you're alone, in a small room,surrounded by ten level 150 heavy gunners, with melee being the only method at your disposal to deal with them (0 energy, no survivability option, no other weapon), your reasoning is completely valid. But in actual gameplay such a situation is not going to occur.

This is why talking about "meta weapons" is pointless: because at high MR, with end-game stuff at your disposal and support from your operator, your 'frame is going to just stop dying. Past a certain point in this game it just becomes impossible for you to be defeated by anything that isn't a bug (Crewman grenade, zombie Ratel), an idiotic AI (Arbitration Defense), or a boss with a very oppressive gimmick (Eidolon). Everything else just isn't a threat to you, so you don't NEED a reasoning such as yours. You can go with a Skana for all you care: it will take 20 swings to kill a single enemy, but who cares, it's not like that enemy is going to harm you with any significant damage in the meantime.

And at low MR, where enemies can actually kill you and so relying on "meta" weapons would be beneficial, you cannot yet acquire most of those weapons, nor the mods needed to make them that good.

So for the millionth time: this discussion is meaningless. When you need "meta" weapons you cannot obtain them, and when you can obtain them you don't need them. Meanwhile your exalted is going to be with you and be useful in your day-to-day gameplay experience: in that sense, they're perfectly fine.

That said, you're free to decide that you only want to play the one weapon with the highest raw damage numbers. But please stop acting like that's the only "right" way of playing.

[Benour]

Obviously if the exalted weapon sucks balls (does pathetic dps), there is no point in using it (not to mention every slash/viral/gas melee will blow any exatled out of water, except Excal EB his exalted is still decent). How hard is to grasp that.

Also if you killing the "beefy guys" (bombards/heavy gunners/eximus/Ancients/Corpus tech) you dont give a flying F about the trash mobs around, they just there as "bonus loot" and source of life support.

You dont give a damn about trash mobs in this game at all.

Also funny how you think lvl 150 is somehow high lvl "and nobody is fighting enemies on such lvl" yeah cool story bro.

Yes @(XB1)GearsMatrix301 might be exaggerating things but his point stands, THERE IS NO POINT USING EXALTED IF THE DPS SUCKS BALLS NO MATTER HOW "UNIQUE" IS. 

[TearsOfTomorrow]

1 hour ago, Benour said:

sucks balls (does pathetic dps)

Again, none of you have provided any evidence to support this claim. Making a claim more vulgar doesn't make it true.

EDIT: lemme clarify what I mean here. Naturally, anyone can prove that an end-game "meta" weapon with the proper build has higher DPS values: that's just basic math. What none of you can prove is that, without such "meta" weapons, completing this or that kind of content is impossible, on the account of all other weapons, exalted included, doing "no damage". In other words, what you cannot prove is the idea that a "meta" weapon is the ONLY way to overcome certain content.

And the reason why you cannot prove it is that it's not true. The only kind of content in this game that requires a specific set-up to be overcome, and thus has a true-blue "meta", is Eidolon fights. Anything else can be done with any weapon: you claim otherwise? Prove it.

Edited February 7, 2020 by TearsOfTomorrow

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, TearsOfTomorrow said:

The.

You said you weren’t going to reply again you liar.