Give Warframe Abilities Enemy Level Multiplier Scaling abilities, now!

[Colyeses]

On 2020-04-29 at 1:20 AM, Ver1dian said:

Nekros' 1 - if 4 is active, soul punch converts the target into a shadow, if the present number of shadows is less than the max possible.

This is utility though, not damage, and counters his own 4. 

 

On 2020-04-29 at 1:20 AM, Ver1dian said:

Ash's 1 - bounce to other targets N times, scaling with str or duration, can hit the same target multiple times

This would be relevant if they do sufficient damage to begin with, but if they deal about 5% of enemy health, they'd need to bounce 20 times to get one kill. Effectively, this would be a numerical boost anyway, which still gives it a flat output value that enemy level can outscale. 

On 2020-04-29 at 1:20 AM, Ver1dian said:

Ember's 1 - if cast when 2 is at 75 or lower, Ember "does't have the heat to ignite it" releasing only a "flamable liquid", stunning enemies in a frontal cone, increasing fire damage by N and casting speed for N sec by 50%.

This is also a numerical increase to a flat value, just with extra energy cost attached. This will be outscaled as well, along with only being used to boost weapon damage.

On 2020-04-29 at 1:20 AM, Ver1dian said:

Chroma' 1 - for every target killed while under it's effect or a maching status, damage is increased by N untill canceled, scaling with strength

This would only work if it is strong enough to kill something. Which it already isn't, right now.

This would also lean into what I call 'precompensation', where a conditional positive is offset by a bad baseline to such an extent that it's just 'meh' when conditions are met.

Don't get me wrong, this idea could be fun, but only -after- the ability is made viable on any combat level. It should not be considered for the role of making spectral scream viable.

We can create a lot of conditional gameplay, but none of it is going to work when ability damage gets outscaled past level 20.

[Veridian]

On 2020-05-01 at 8:35 AM, Colyeses said:

We can create a lot of conditional gameplay, but none of it is going to work when ability damage gets outscaled past level 20.

I was gonna write a long post, but you simply lack imagination to realise how any of those interactions would play out in the environment.

Regardless, it's not the point of how viable my suggestions are. The point is that soul punch/seeking shuriken could 1 shot lv 160 bombards and it will still not cause the Nekros/Ash flying arround with a Plague Kripath to stop and use it.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Ver1dian

[Colyeses]

23 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

I was gonna write a long post, but you simply lack imagination to realise how any of those interactions would play out in the environment.

Regardless, it's not the point of how viable my suggestions are. The point is that soul punch/seeking shuriken could 1 shot lv 160 bombards and it will still not cause the Nekros/Ash flying arround with a Plague Kripath to stop and use it.

What's the environment got to do with it? Ultimately it just comes down to: Is it more efficient for me to cast an ability, or shoot my gun? And since most weapons can deal far more damage to far more targets than any damage oriented ability can (Barring noteworthy exceptions like Maim and Spores), most damage abilities go completely unused. For example, why use Ember's fireball when a Bramma shot deals a couple hundred times the damage over a much larger area? 

And no, if soul punch or seeking shuriken oneshot level 160 bombards then they would get used. Against level 160 bombards. Provided they can't already be oneshot by their currently equipped weapon. 

[PsiWarp]

They were experimenting with it. Vauban's Flechette Orb and Photon Strike, then almost all of Grendel's kit. Pretty sure Protea and Broken Frame will have some form of scaling damage too.

[Veridian]

56 minutes ago, Colyeses said:

Ultimately it just comes down to: Is it more efficient for me to cast an ability, or shoot my gun? 

Exactly. No ammount of damage will make a single target damage ability with no additional interaction or benefit worth using in the current environment.

My suggestions are irrelevant, they were more of an examples in which direction these abilities have to go, in opposition to op's suggestion that some universal damage buff would fix them.

As an example, however, Shuriken with 155 PS. does 25% of a lv 100 bombard's hp in damage, an enemy with 737 263 effective hp. Should the shuriken bounce multiple times a single cast depending on the range and number of bounces, it can take out groups of enemies.

[Kashil]

Am 17.3.2020 um 23:54 schrieb Arcira:

That´s a terrible design because it´s not even scaling in the first place. You could as well remove enemy level altogther because there is no point when your damage scales passively with enemy levels.

I just wanna say everybody in this thread who is against enemy lvl scaling abilities to be added because of "it would make the lvls useless" and that would destroy the game is wrong. Why? Because its already in the game... (Vauban and Xaku) Lets also not forget weapons also exist still. They would be still affect by lvls. Adding some more would not destroy the game.

Some warframes already have abilities that scale with enemy lvls and looking at the newer warframes they seem to be adding a lot of these abilities. They even gave sevagoth a health% damage combo ability. (lets not forget about 100% insta kill revenant LOL)

I gonna say it simple: If some of the warframes already have it then why can't all of them have it?

Some abilities are absolute trash and will never be used at endgame content. So the easy way to fix some of the useless abilities is to just add enemy lvl scaling damage to it. Another way of fixing this problem would be to rework the whole game but lets be honest that is too much work for DE. DE hates looking back at old content for some reason. The people who want a full rework of the game are delusional. The best you gonna get is reworked warframes with enemy lvl scaling abilities or health% damage abilities.

I think they should just add enemy lvl scaling to all damage abilities. Some warframes already have it so why not make it fair and give it to all warframes? It would not destroy the game because this already exist in the game. It would just make some warframes more viable for endgame finally. It would give us more options which means more fun. Like for real if you put pillage on xaku you can literally kill anything. Why not put other warframes on the same lvl? People in this thread who are talking against it are literally just hating on a band-aid. We need that band-aid on old warframes. There will never be a full rework of the game to fix the problems but a small band-aid like that could happen. So lets please stop S#&$ting on this idea which already exist in the game.

It already exist on some warframes so make it fair and let every warframe have it. (There are some warframes who are soooooooo bad they just need that rework)

Bruh my kuva bramma grineer bow is better then some of my warframes. Aren't warframes suppose to be killing machines? I guess grineer technology is just superior.

Sorry for the necro. I am tired and I just wanted to type something.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Kashil

[Pizzarugi]

On 2020-03-20 at 4:31 AM, Corvid said:

Warframe's current gameplay isn't a power fantasy. It's using a lawnmower. I'm not powerful because I can wipe out things that can't fight back.

Even Superman games, literal power fantasies, have challenges. Warframe is far removed from power fantasy that DE allows players to take the 'horde' out of 'horde-shooter' with one button. That's not power fantasy, that's laziness and cheese.

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Even Superman games, literal power fantasies, have challenges. Warframe is far removed from power fantasy that DE allows players to take the 'horde' out of 'horde-shooter' with one button. That's not power fantasy, that's laziness and cheese.

I'm reminded of that game Megaton Rainfall. You're an immortal, unkillable entity tasked with protecting Earth from an alien invasion. You can level buildings with a wave of your hand and the aliens can't so much as scratch you.

So how does the game provide any sort of challenge? Simple: You are invincible. The cities you are defending, on the other hand...

[LagartoPunkarra]

Of course! Let's remove difficulty by making abilities scale with enemies and make them useless or grossly overpowered!

If you didn't get my sarcasm, it's a bad idea.

[Kashil]

Am 29.4.2021 um 00:45 schrieb ElecDeathblade:

Of course! Let's remove difficulty by making abilities scale with enemies and make them useless or grossly overpowered!

If you didn't get my sarcasm, it's a bad idea.

Vauban and xaku already have scaling abilities and they don't seem "overpowered". Read the abilities on the wiki. The only thing this change would do is their abilities would stop becoming useless at higher lvls.

"bad idea"-You are just wrong. And since the devs already added some scaling abilities to vauban and xaku, it seems like the devs disagree with you as well lol.

Warframe abilities loose their power really fast at higher lvls. Some meele weapons stay always good. Isn't it sad that your weapons are stronger then your warframe? Think about it lmao.

The only change this would do is that abilities don't become useless. Killing enemies will still take the same amount of time because its always mediocre scaled damage.

Like for real you hating on that idea is literally just throwing rocks at people who wanna do high lvl endurance runs. You are basically limiting their choices. And its already in the game with xaku and vauban. We just want this change for some of the warframes that never get used at higher lvls because of how bad they scale.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Kashil

[Lutesque]

On 2021-04-28 at 1:13 PM, Kashil said:

 

I gonna say it simple: If some of the warframes already have it then why can't all of them have it?

I'm only against the idea because it doesn't Change Functionality which I care about more than viability....

Just so we're clear... You are right and Abilities should Scale....

All I'm saying it just wouldn't make me happy if this was Implemented.... 

On 2021-04-29 at 12:45 AM, ElecDeathblade said:

Of course! Let's remove difficulty by making abilities scale with enemies and make them useless or grossly overpowered!

If you didn't get my sarcasm, it's a bad idea.

Whats Difficulty ? 🤔

I have no recollection of this "Difficulty"you speak of.... Is it under the couch ?.... Can I eat it ?

 

[LagartoPunkarra]

On 2021-05-03 at 4:20 PM, Lutesque said:

Whats Difficulty ? 🤔

I have no recollection of this "Difficulty"you speak of.... Is it under the couch ?.... Can I eat it ?

Something that this games lacks lol

[Andele3025]

On 2020-05-01 at 7:35 AM, Colyeses said:

This is utility though, not damage, and counters his own 4.

2 months late but just to note for the thread, its not utility, its anti-utility.
It actively makes his 1 and 4 worse at the same time because shadow cycling becomes desynched, any creature killed with his 1 when at cap doesnt join the shadow pool AND its best use for the trashxecute is reverse of its better scaling cc (up close knockdown vs group, ranged yeet vs priority target as cc being inverse to any gameloop that tries to actively use 1 for shadows or heal as in that case you would want to separate the weak enemies away from the shadow targets first) to the point that you're better off completely ceasing to use 1 at all.