Give Warframe Abilities Enemy Level Multiplier Scaling abilities, now!

[supernils]

7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

It’s impossible to add anything challenging to Warframe where the casual majority will cry to make it easier every time a challenge is added and DE listens to them

Wrong, I think it is the veterans who do the crying.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Just now, supernils said:

Wrong, I think it is the veterans who do the crying.

That wasnt veterans crying about the high level sentients in SS.

[supernils]

6 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

My concern is that adding scaling damage would reduce the value of strength mods, which in turn would be replaced by more health mods, which would cause more problems than it would solve as far as dificulty goes

Bro if you look at the calculation, 200% ability strength still means 200% ability strength. Noone is gonna pass up on that. Even less then, when ability damage is viable.

[supernils]

6 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

What the OP asking is a quick fix. DE is VERY SLOW on reworking Warframes (they only rework 3-4 frames per year). So this fix will do wonders to help the non meta frames to catchup without needing any major rework.

Exactly. We don't even need to discuss scaling abilities in principle here. DE has already realized their error which can be seen in newer ability designs. I'm just asking for them to dish out their new receipe en masse. With the frequency of their warframe reworks it would take ages, and not all frames need a rework - scaling ability power would already do the job. They can still rework ability design later if needed.

[Veridian]

2 hours ago, supernils said:

Bro if you look at the calculation, 200% ability strength still means 200% ability strength. Noone is gonna pass up on that. Even less then, when ability damage is viable.

When Vauban's mine easily kills enemies at any level with 100 strength, yes I pass on that for more range/duration/durability.

[Veridian]

7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

DE already has the formula. They can just copy paste it to the ability damage calculation. Of course, you gotta watch out for bugs. But it’s quicker than having to go through Design Team to add unique interactions that may take time. 
 

Only use it for non meta abilities. The meta ones already has a form of damage scaling by damage ramp up or they deal percentage damage.

How will this help Nyx? Or Hydroid, or Banshee... will soul punch be more used if it killed 1 mook?

numbers don't fix problems, mechanics do.

[ShortCat]

11 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Of the ones that work, they're either exalted weapons you can mod in one form or another, abilities that scale on their own like Saryn and Equinox, or abilities that already do the thing you're calling bad game design.

Exalted weapons have their own problems, which start to show their age, as Arsenal keeps power creeping and replacing them. I would rework all exalted weapons into exalted modes/stances, which offer combat boosts and do not compete with regular weaponry. Gauss' Redline is prety much an exalted mode/stance.
Saryn and especially Equinox are rather odd ones. Their damage does not just scale with enemy level but rather depends on a certain player activity, situational awareness as well as gradual build up. You do not get their power unlocked by simply pressing a button, which is good. In contrary, Flechette Orb orb just gets stronger.

11 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

So what other way would you balance warframe damage abilities?  Right now we have pretty much just 2 kinds.  Damage abilities that work past level 50, and those that don't.

1. I would ask myself whether it is intended for abilities to scale infinitely, or rather do I want players to play infinitely. I would say NO. DE seems to have the same opinion. Endless modes were designed so that enemy scaling would push out players when they reach their limits (even if certain combos really stretch it till breaking point). You are not supposed to fight lvl 1k enemies and you are not suposed to scale agaisnt them.
2. I would trim scaling. It is hard to balance something, when we as well as enemies scale from hundreds to millions in damage/HP.
3. I would make cooperation more relevant. Real support Frames with real support abilities which can push damage oriented Frames further, preferably even in regular missions. Not cheap one button one man army design.
4. Warframe desperately needs a better group finder, Recruit Chat is outdated.

Edited April 29, 2020 by ShortCat
added 4th point

[DrivaMain]

3 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

How will this help Nyx? Or Hydroid, or Banshee... will soul punch be more used if it killed 1 mook?

numbers don't fix problems, mechanics do.

It does tho. It allows the ability to deal decent damage so it’s worth using them because the higher the enemy level the more damage it does. Right now Hydroid Tempest Barrage barely scratching level 50+ mobs because the damage is too low, damage scaling is there to fix that without making the ability a new nuke meta that will only be nerfed later.

3 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Last, I would make cooperation more relevant. Real support Frames with real support abilities which can push damage oriented Frames further, preferably even in regular missions. Not cheap one button one man army design

Good luck adding CO-OP where the lone wolves are a big chunk of the player base. We can see people already complain about it in Railjack where they don’t want to rely on other people to complete the missions. Cheap one man army design actually is the main selling point of recent frames and it screams MONEY to DE. So, they can’t hop off the bandwagon just yet.. maybe never.

I have come to accept the fact that Warframe is not a CO-OP game and the community hates being forced to it, this game is more like a single player with optional CO-OP.
 

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

This is going well 

[ShortCat]

10 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I have come to accept the fact that Warframe is not a CO-OP game and the community hates being forced to it, this game is more like a single player with optional CO-OP.

I cannot say I disagree. However, I remember those times several years ago, when it was normal to form a group to run some Void keys. Warframe can certainly pull it off, becasue it already did it. A better group finder would be a huge, like really HUGE help in this regard. (need to add it to my other post).

[DrivaMain]

Just now, ShortCat said:

A better group finder would be a huge, like really HUGE help in this regard. (need to add it to my other post).

Can’t say no to that. It’s amazing the LFG is more ancient than old MMOs from the 2000s.

[844448]

On 2020-03-20 at 10:18 PM, Lakais said:

Yes. Say what you want about Destiny 2 as a whole, but combat there does not swing so widely from one extreme to the other. Even when at a relatively high power score, you can still be killed by fodder enemies if you make mistakes or overextend yourself while still being a nigh-unstoppable powerhouse of death and destruction. Warframe is much more enjoyable in terms of the mechanics and gameplay options. But the combat loop of Destiny 2 is more refined and stable, thus in general more fun. 

And look at how your so called power to become a powerhouse works in destiny 2. The power in destiny 2 is hardly worth mentioning and the power score is just a lie, an illusion to make you think that you make some progress when it's hardly visible, enemies will scale up when you do activities or your power gets scaled down to the point of being meaningless. You want to see it? Try doing a strike with your power, then go to EDZ and see if the damage number you deal isn't lower than you do before.

Also, your power in destiny 2 is not something you can increase as you with to reach 300% like warframe. The biggest damage increase I find is rampage which has only 33% increase after killing 3 enemies and if you want to say enemies catch up with your power in destiny 2, fine, but with our power being wildly vary between one Tenno to another Tenno with the same warframe, how do you balance enemy power like that?

You want the so called "more refined and stable"? That would mean a massive nerf to our power first, and a hard cap to our power so no more 300% strength even with all power strength mods, and so on to make it more limited, and in turn being more stable.

Is that what you really want?

[vegetosayajin]

Why would you want to make this game even easier than it is now?

[LSG501]

9 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well its been mentioned that Warframes are not all created by the same Teams all the Time so... yeah... thats probably where the inconsistency comes from and why Pablo is considered our Lord and Savior.

Not exactly hard to decide on a direction and then just stick to it.... all these 'little things' add up to cause issues later down the line and they could have saved themselves no end of work by just having a fixed approach to how they setup abilities...

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Not exactly hard to decide on a direction and then just stick to it.... all these 'little things' add up to cause issues later down the line and they could have saved themselves no end of work by just having a fixed approach to how they setup abilities...

Oh yeah I totally agree... and yet... it seems like it is hard for DE...

[Corvid]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

That wasnt veterans crying about the high level sentients in SS.

As a veteran who finds Sentients obnoxious to fight, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

[supernils]

8 hours ago, ShortCat said:

I would ask myself whether it is intended for abilities to scale infinitely, or rather do I want players to play infinitely. I would say NO. DE seems to have the same opinion. Endless modes were designed so that enemy scaling would push out players when they reach their limits (even if certain combos really stretch it till breaking point). You are not supposed to fight lvl 1k enemies and you are not suposed to scale agaisnt them

I don't think ability damage that can compete with/complement weapon damage would change anything meta wise.

I have personally not investigated this, but I'm pretty sure enemy effective health still out scales the scaling ability strength. At least that is how it should be, but I'm not even sure about that. Damage is not everything. Survivability is also a factor in level scaling.

[SenorClipClop]

I feel like adding this to all abilities that deal damage would somewhat undermine the point of scaling, but I think every Warframe should have some kind of scaling damage available if they depend on ability damage.

[GPrime96]

9 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I have come to accept the fact that Warframe is not a CO-OP game and the community hates being forced to it, this game is more like a single player with optional CO-OP.

While DE, overtime, makes Solo less and less worth playing.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

17 hours ago, ShortCat said:

DE seems to have the same opinion.

There is no point in me addressing anything else you have to say after this.  DE put enemies in Scarlet Spear that are higher level than what you can spawn in the Simulacrum, are required to face if you want to make any kind of decent progress in earning points and completing a flotilla count, and are of a faction that USED to be used as "boss" type encounters, and were only seen in tiny numbers.  They clearly don't share your opinion that we shouldn't be facing enemies of that level.  At all.  If they're going to put things in the game that spawn at level 180+ and warframes (which were designed to fight them.) have abilities meant solely to do damage, then that damage should have a way of reaching the same heights as those enemies. 

Your only response to a very limited portion of my post was "I wouldn't do what DE is doing."  That's nice.  They did it and are doing it though, and a lot of the community doesn't mind the higher levels.  But warframe's need to have damage abilities that do damage at those levels and any level they decide to put in the game, high or low.  Your "idea" of just not letting enemies get to higher a level doesn't address the fact that several of these abilities suck even against lower level enemies, but I noticed you completely ignored that part of my post.

[ShortCat]

4 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

-snip-

A salty and arrogant response to a different opinion. Judging from your other posts I thought you were better. Ignore.

[LascarCapable]

Moving to warframe and abilities feedback.

[Teridax68]

On 2020-03-17 at 10:54 PM, Arcira said:

You could as well remove enemy level altogther because there is no point when your damage scales passively with enemy levels.

I actually don't think that would be such a bad idea, to be honest, and it would certainly simplify the balancing of damage if we didn't need to implement scaling on every damage ability to make them function. The problem with enemy levels as they're currently implemented is that they don't do a great job of making the game more difficult, and mainly just devalue our health and damage: the reason to have scaling damage in the first place is to make sure entire bits of our frame's kits don't become useless past a certain level, which shouldn't really be happening in the first place. Despite the game having a difficulty system, it hasn't really figured out what increasing its difficulty really means, since it doesn't challenge players with new or more difficult mechanics at higher levels, nor does it really do a good job of punishing players for making mistakes. Ideally, whichever scaling difficulty does work for the game should be able to test the player on their skill without invalidating their frame or weapons.

[DrivaMain]

15 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

While DE, overtime, makes Solo less and less worth playing.

Railjack? Can be solo'd. Scarlet Spear? Can be solo'd. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by DrivaMain

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

17 hours ago, ShortCat said:

A salty and arrogant response to a different opinion. Judging from your other posts I thought you were better. Ignore.

lol, show me where I was salty.  And arrogant?  Your initial defense of your point was literally "DE thinks I'm right."  The funny part of it is that, based on your next couple of points where you say you wouldn't do what DE is doing (scaling enemies into higher levels, thus making basic damage abilities less viable) you're demonstrating that DE very clearly doesn't think you're right or they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.  You contradict yourself in your own post by saying DE agrees with you, but you wouldn't take the actions that they're taking that don't agree with your point that we shouldn't face enemies that high level.  I pointed out that you cherry picked what you wanted to address in my argument by just omitting most of it in your reply, that the limited reply you gave me only warranted a limited reply, especially because it was contradictory to itself, and all you have in response to being called out is "I'm not mad I'm just disappointed"?  Fantastic.  

Try addressing a whole argument if you expect the same, next time.  And if you want someone to care about your different opinion, try defending it with something other than "muh devs agree" especially when there's evidence to the contrary.