Ash blade storm to work SIMILAR to peacemaker to achieve ease of use for consoles

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

3 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

How funny, for Ash Prime is come with Vectis Prime! Did you expect Ash to be a sniper?

Assassins use snipers

[Wolfdoggie]

Been asking this since it happened. Then they nerfed Ember with another new and rational mechanic that could have been applied to Ash as well. Either one is better than the awful feeling marking system. Why didn't they give Ember's meteors a marking system to replace her AoE that basically covered the same radius Ash did if DE think's it's such a great idea to keep in-game for this long?

 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

W-what have i started...

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

9 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

But he's in the same game with Saryn, Mesa, Bramma (and every other long range melee weapon). What does Ash offer in Warframe? Where are the high priority targets in a mission that requires a dedicated assassin frame (assuming that such a target would be succeptible to his kit)? Even in disruptions!
The game design vision doesn't seem to be coherant if you look at the developement of those frames over the years. Seems that the devs are split in two groups, too.
 

You're essentially saying "Because nuke frames exist, every other frame should get a nuke too, I mean...how else are they supposed to catch up!"

The frames arent racing, dude.

We all know you can use 1 frame for everything. That's not the point, or this would be called "Revenants 2 Bramma Saryn Frame"

People are allowed to use the 40+ frames as they would like.

You're assuming players just want to be in a group, all equally nuking stuff.

Frames dont have to offer everything you want. They offer things to Warframe for other people......

Edited May 4, 2020 by (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu

[Pie_mastyr]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

You stated a problem (the distance) and I provided a solution.

If you think I'm trying to look cool maybe that's some sort of projection thingy you're doing. I don't know.

You can also adjust your mouse's sensitivity so no one feels like they have to whip ashs reticle around. You can make it slower or faster.

You can use various zooming settings from the wide selection of guns the game has as well.

And, as I said before, ones positioning. These are what radar mods are for. "Hey, theres a big blob of red arrows coming my way, maybe I should give myself a good view to mark them all with my Blade Storm."

 

I seriously don't get how you keep missing the point here

Firstly, i dont have an issue with bladestorm. I can aim just fine dont worry. But it is perfectly understandable to have difficulties in a fast paced game like warframe, and I was considering options to make the ability less clunky without stripping it of its theming or gameplay.

Secondly, the issue is that individually marking every enemy takes about as much effort as it would to just shoot those enemies. And shooting will get the job done instantly.

Thirdly, I was talking about solutions to help console players, who have a much less precise means of aiming. But admittedly it was brought to my attention before, these players obviously aim when they use guns so that isn't so much of an issue as I had first thought.

Like all this stuff about positioning and radar is, well frankly its basic. You couldn't even get to the point where you can farm ash without at least knowing that much. That's why I had assumed you were baitin

[Pie_mastyr]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

W-what have i started...

When you talk about niche frames, you get passionate weirdos like me

[CaptainMinty]

I'm personally fine with the way bladestorm works right now. I remember at one point back when revives were an actual thing limited daily, that bladestorm was actually a detriment to me being helpful to my friends. I got stuck in a 40 second bladestorm when all my buddies went down. They all died and because back then we were rather new and rather weak they'd lost their revives. And I could do nothing but watch Ash stab a huge amount of dudes really slowly.

I would rather peacemaker be a kind of deadeye thing like red dead redemption. Mesa marks a few headshots, the number of which based on power strength and just lets loose with high powered heavy shots that decimate anything it blasts. And really emphasize the gun dance with a cinematic kind of camera thing that ash gets. It'd be cool, and she wouldn't just annihilate entire hordes of everything with her guns.

Though they would need to improve her first ability. I'd like to see something that kind of acts like a brief invulnerable dodge roll followed by a quick shot from her regulators. She does need some help as her kit is wonky and needs more interactions between each other and better to use abilities. Her 2 and 3 is just buffs, kinda like chroma but better, and her 4 is actually really good, unlike chroma.

[Wolfdoggie]

3 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

I'm personally fine with the way bladestorm works right now. I remember at one point back when revives were an actual thing limited daily, that bladestorm was actually a detriment to me being helpful to my friends. I got stuck in a 40 second bladestorm when all my buddies went down. They all died and because back then we were rather new and rather weak they'd lost their revives. And I could do nothing but watch Ash stab a huge amount of dudes really slowly.

Replacing a bad idea with another bad idea isn't a good idea.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Guys calm down

This is all because i find ash clunky to me

Not because i want another instant nuke warframe

If i did...i wouldn't have made this post and would've just mained mesa all day

But ash is clunky to me especially with teams.

Edited May 4, 2020 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 minute ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Replacing a bad idea with another bad idea isn't a good idea.

Good thing current Blade Storm isn't a bad idea. It can be sped up to be very smooth and fast.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

10 minutes ago, Pie_mastyr said:

I seriously don't get how you keep missing the point here

Firstly, i dont have an issue with bladestorm. I can aim just fine dont worry. But it is perfectly understandable to have difficulties in a fast paced game like warframe, and I was considering options to make the ability less clunky without stripping it of its theming or gameplay.

Secondly, the issue is that individually marking every enemy takes about as much effort as it would to just shoot those enemies. And shooting will get the job done instantly.

Thirdly, I was talking about solutions to help console players, who have a much less precise means of aiming. But admittedly it was brought to my attention before, these players obviously aim when they use guns so that isn't so much of an issue as I had first thought.

Like all this stuff about positioning and radar is, well frankly its basic. You couldn't even get to the point where you can farm ash without at least knowing that much. That's why I had assumed you were baitin

I went back and looked, you made this suggestion and I did really like it: 

"I would prefer the ability to paint a new set of targets while the clones are killing the first set. Maybe shurikens could mark enemies as well? It might help with ash's difficulty competing with teammates."

I still think its OP and not needed, but regardless is a good idea. 

[Void_Ocelot]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

Nah not really. It can be as brain dead as Mesas peacemaker. Only differne will be, that the Ash player has to attack an enemies at first 220 times with his melle weapon to get the bonus from the combo-multipler. But in the end they are both braindead.

Is there even such a big differnce between an assasin/ ninja and a sniper? Both of them have to pick at first their target. And if they have one they kill it with one single, but very effective strike/ bullet. And after that they both disappear.

Would be nice, if she has at first to inflict the same amount of damage with her "normal" weapons before she can use her fourth ability. This would also encourage to inflict headshots with mesa thanks to the 4-times (or was it lower) headshot multipler.

I don't think we are talking about the same ability. So yeah...really. Ash as to target each enemy 3 times directly. Mesa spins the camera. Admittedly you can wiggle the cursor a bit. But, even that is more interactive than current state Mesa. All of this is in parallel running a combo build.

[Wolfdoggie]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Good thing current Blade Storm isn't a bad idea. It can be sped up to be very smooth and fast.

Except it's not.

[Pie_mastyr]

14 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

But he's in the same game with Saryn, Mesa, Bramma (and every other long range melee weapon). What does Ash offer in Warframe? Where are the high priority targets in a mission that requires a dedicated assassin frame (assuming that such a target would be succeptible to his kit)? Even in disruptions!
The game design vision doesn't seem to be coherant if you look at the developement of those frames over the years. Seems that the devs are split in two groups, too.
 

Well a lot of the games' design is imposed on by the players. Look at how the game was on launch to now. The feedback loop dev cycle was a super cool idea but I think it's flawed in a lot of ways. 

For example the concept of being "faced paced" mostly came from players abusing coptering. You can tell they originally envisioned a more precise movement based on the original parkour trailer.

Also the art design. Frames typically had this pseudo organic vibe, but as time went on it became more generic sci fi. The game is filled with decisions like this that have diluted the vision over time. 

I honestly don't know how de has developed this game for so long. It must get really frustrating, and at times a bit boring. Which I think is why theres so many "islands".

it also has had a very weird effect on the community. Older players eventually get bored and want new things, and newer players want things that were in the game but removed. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Except it's not.

Maybe google some coordination tips. Maybe some screen glare recommendations.

[CaptainMinty]

8 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Replacing a bad idea with another bad idea isn't a good idea.

I've never had a problem with the current bladestorm. It's not a bad idea. That's just your opinion of it because Mesa exists. And Saryn. Bladestorm isn't terrible, it's really effective at what it does. It's just that Mesa does what Bladestorm does with less effort.

[Wolfdoggie]

8 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

I've never had a problem with the current bladestorm. It's not a bad idea. That's just your opinion of it because Mesa exists. And Saryn. Bladestorm isn't terrible, it's really effective at what it does. It's just that Mesa does what Bladestorm does with less effort.

The mechanic is a simulated seizure in your wrist and I find it distasteful, as well as offensive to people who have cerebral palsy to make anyone to have to perform an action like that just to mark enemies. The thought of ANYONE being okay with it honestly sickens me.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Wolfdoggie

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

The mechanic is a simulated seizure in your wrist and I find it distasteful, as well as offensive to people who have cerebral palsy to make anyone to have to perform an action like that just to mark enemies. The thought of ANYONE being okay with it honestly sickens me.

That reason really isn't gonna work man. It would work if there wasnt anything else in the game that did what you're describing.

A lot of stuff does.

[Wolfdoggie]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

That reason really isn't gonna work man. It would work if there wasnt anything else in the game that did what you're describing.

A lot of stuff does.

Nothing to this extreme extent, absolutly nothing, not even close. And not using it to those extreme levels makes it too slow to be worth using at all. It's terrible and I can't stand the thought of using my once favorite frame anymore since the change. If I do actually use his pathetic self it's only as full duration and staying invisible (sometimes with smoke screen augment but that forces you to waste mods on range) and hiding himself and his shame from the world forever. His 1 and 4 are never touched, and his 3 rarely. Incredibly boring but it's his only worth. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Wolfdoggie

[CaptainMinty]

2 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Nothing to this extreme extent, absolutly nothing, not even close. And not using it to those extreme levels makes it too slow to be worth using at all. It's terrible and I can't stand the thought of using my once favorite frame anymore since the change. If I do actually use his pathetic self it's only as full duration and staying invisible (sometimes with smoke screen augment but that forces you to waste mods on range) and hiding himself and his shame from the world forever. His 1 and 4 are never touched, and his 3 rarely. Incredibly boring but it's his only worth. 

His first is actually really good, his third I'd agree if fatal teleport wasn't a thing, (though fatal teleport should be innate to the ability and should be changed because if we rely on augments to make something useful, the design needs some change, which means it does need looks.) You say you used to see him as your favorite. Yet, somehow when Ash has done nothing but get better from his past self, you seem to like him less. Weird. And if you're flailing your wrist to mark targets, then that's on you. And it is not too slow if you don't. It seems like you don't like it because it isn't exactly what you want it to be, and ignore every ounce of how good something actually is. What is your definition of worth in Warframe? Because I see Ash as worthwhile still. His kit is fine save for his third which needs some help. The rest of it is fine. Ash isn't terrible, stop acting like he's utterly broken in a bad way when he isn't.

[Aseraan]

6 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Mesa is probably the worst frame we have.

Without her 4th ability no one would use her ever.

I like her 2 and 3 and when i play her i try to use her 4 the less cuz i dont like it much either her 1 is also kinda pointless.

[Acersecomic]

2 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

I said it is annoying as hell because I tried to do that. At first, why I am bothered to do when we have a guns that makes much better result? As I said, if you can endure such punishment, then you can use sniper rifles or semi-automatic rifles instead and these are actually much faster and easier.

 

Also, why Ash should be a 'sniper'? Isn't his job is pop the smoke, rush to the enemy, sweeping them and retreat safely? He is not the frame for the careful needlework in a chair. If it is on Loki then it may suit for him, for he is a spy frame after all. But again, Ash is not Loki.

Honestly, it is even against the whole concept of Warframe as well. Such mechanism is nothing but an abomination on FPS/TPS games. It is not acceptable.

Because I want to use a sniper rifle and I'm good at it. It is called a sniper rifle, it can zoom in, and I enjoy using snipers due to extremely high damage but still require me to aim instead of fire Bramma in a general direction.

Also, Ash isn't a dedicated sniper. They just bundled Vectis with his stuff. You think Titania is a shotgun girl? Why did we get Dethcube with Atlas, is he a summoner frame? Nonsense connections.

The last paragraph is just beyond troll, it goes into ogre territory.

 

1 hour ago, Sahansral said:

But he's in the same game with Saryn, Mesa, Bramma (and every other long range melee weapon). What does Ash offer in Warframe? Where are the high priority targets in a mission that requires a dedicated assassin frame (assuming that such a target would be succeptible to his kit)? Even in disruptions!
The game design vision doesn't seem to be coherant if you look at the developement of those frames over the years. Seems that the devs are split in two groups, too.
 

At least ASH makes you do more than he had you do before, which is engage to an extent. Also Ash's targets are still killable by others. And what does he add? Different gameplay, like every other frame out there. He is a frame with abilities that are his own and he does his way of killing, like everyone else does their way of killing!

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

24 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Nothing to this extreme extent, absolutly nothing, not even close. And not using it to those extreme levels makes it too slow to be worth using at all. It's terrible and I can't stand the thought of using my once favorite frame anymore since the change. If I do actually use his pathetic self it's only as full duration and staying invisible (sometimes with smoke screen augment but that forces you to waste mods on range) and hiding himself and his shame from the world forever. His 1 and 4 are never touched, and his 3 rarely. Incredibly boring but it's his only worth. 

In your opinion*

I personally would never play like that. Hope you can find some peace, sorry. 

[Wolfdoggie]

16 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

His first is actually really good, his third I'd agree if fatal teleport wasn't a thing, (though fatal teleport should be innate to the ability and should be changed because if we rely on augments to make something useful, the design needs some change, which means it does need looks.) You say you used to see him as your favorite. Yet, somehow when Ash has done nothing but get better from his past self, you seem to like him less. Weird. And if you're flailing your wrist to mark targets, then that's on you. And it is not too slow if you don't. It seems like you don't like it because it isn't exactly what you want it to be, and ignore every ounce of how good something actually is. What is your definition of worth in Warframe? Because I see Ash as worthwhile still. His kit is fine save for his third which needs some help. The rest of it is fine. Ash isn't terrible, stop acting like he's utterly broken in a bad way when he isn't.

His 1 is useless without Augment, just like his 3 because the open-to-finishers has been bugged forever and doesn't trigger most of the time. His augmented 1 remains medeocre if you build power for it since it needs duration too. and like who cares about Armor strip anyways if I need to waste a mod on it, there's so many other ways to do it. It's a waste of effort to build for anything other than his 2. Which is why him getting a 2nd deluxe before anyone else is a waste of design work unless they plan on changing him, but they never said they would yet. He has no business being seen. They even went out of their way to make sure he's never seen by adding the stealth synergy to lower cost to his useless abilities.

I used to go full power and min duration with him and used a his skills as needed. His 4 was still a fun nuke to escape danger in ultra high level missions when it became meh dmg. My only issue I ever really had with it was lack of control over usage time and when players couldn't hit red mobs.

I used him only to cheese Liches nowadays since he's tankier than other stealth frames and invisibility is stupidly broken in this game because they won't add a real stealth mechanic instead. EVER using his 4 was just a waste of DPS even on single targets when I could just keep meleeing them for more than it could ever do. Guns and Melees will always outperform the waste of time marking mechanic, there's absolutly 0 value in it, wether it's low lvl or high level content.

[Wolfdoggie]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

In your opinion*

I personally would never play like that. Hope you can find some peace, sorry. 

Yeah, I don't which is why he's shelfed for better frames.