Force Start in groups..... this is just a big fat nope!

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Because I don't negatively impact on your games. [...]. If I need to go do something I will usually bail from the squad inbetween missions.

Which is exactly the point. You don't ask the group to wait for you for X minutes.

 

il y a 7 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

 Imagine what would happen if the person you rushed into the mission, intentionally decided to go fail a vault or two in that spy Sortie you chose to drop them into. Would that make you happy?

Griefing is another subject; and the forced player can also just quit the mission he doesn't want to play with his actual gear. He won't lose much from a run he doesn't want to play. Another scenario would be for him to just afk (on purpose or not), granting him free loot.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Which is exactly the point. You don't ask the group to wait for you for X minutes.

Yes but not quite. You might notice that I'm not waiting an undue time for the group, while simultaneously managing not to force others in to a mission that I know they're not able or willing to do immediately. There's a subtle difference between the two that people seem to be missing. 

Because intentionally forcing a start when someone has asked for a minute to do something, would very much be a form of griefing. 

Remember what you are proposing is forcing them to quit after it's started. At what point does "he won't lose much" become less of a problem than "I won't lose anything if I leave the group"? 

Do you see? 

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

What about a tweak to the voting so that anyone not yet confirmed for the next mission gets left behind in a separate squad (when the timer runs out) rather than being dragged in ill-prepared?

This would split the squad into two separate ones, and might solve the issue of impatient/arbitrary FSing.

Edited June 8, 2020 by (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Because intentionally forcing a start when someone has asked for a minute to do something, would very much be a form of griefing.

 He still can quit the group before the timer expire.

 

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Remember what you are proposing is forcing them to quit after it's started. At what point does "he won't lose much" become less of a problem than "I won't lose anything if I leave the group"?

He won't lose anything if he set his mind to not play the mission. But if he is in the mission, even afk the times he comes back from doing irl stuff, he will get the early rewards. It's better for your progression to be afk in a mission which is played than afk in the orbiter.

 

But I do understand your point. You can leave the group instead of forcing, of course. I always leave while playing solo, instead of forcing 3 player to play MY mission. But what about when you duo and trio ? Can you force start the next mission or do you HAVE TO wait for the last random to either accept the mission or leave the lobby ? Hum ? Or, right, you have to disband the group, rebuild it, and then start the mission again ? That's really annoying.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, dwqrf said:

He still can quit the group before the timer expire.

Go back a bit. You are in a thread where someone's indicated that a person might ask for a moment to attend to something. Kind of difficult to quit the group if they are actively doing something else, right? 

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

He won't lose anything if he set his mind to not play the mission. But if he is in the mission, even afk the times he comes back from doing irl stuff, he will get the early rewards. It's better for your progression to be afk in a mission which is played than afk in the orbiter.

And Zero won't lose anything by moving on to a different group or playing the mission solo. 

Again it's a case of "I'm not willing to be be inconvenienced by you" not granting freedom to say "I'm more than willing to inconvenience you, lulz" 

8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

But I do understand your point. You can leave the group instead of forcing, of course. I always leave while playing solo, instead of forcing 3 player to play MY mission. But what about when you duo and trio ? Can you force start the next mission or do you HAVE TO wait for the last random to either accept the mission or leave the lobby ? Hum ? Or, right, you have to disband the group, rebuild it, and then start the mission again ? That's really annoying.

You can easily set your matchmaking to exclude those randoms from joining. Again, it's a world of difference between not being willing to wait on them and intentionally forcing them to start something they may not be prepared to start. 

It's literally a matter of simple courtesy, and good manners. I'm shocked that people need to explain this. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Go back a bit. You are in a thread where someone's indicated that a person might ask for a moment to attend to something. Kind of difficult to quit the group if they are actively doing something else, right? 

-

You can easily set your matchmaking to exclude those randoms from joining. Again, it's a world of difference between not being willing to wait on them and intentionally forcing them to start something they may not be prepared to start.

Depends ; they can be "doing something" in game (like format, switch gear, whatever) which shouldn't remove their ability to quit before the timer ends - or if they are doing something IRL, in that case, why do they stay in the group if they lose control over their choices while being in a public lobby ?

-

And if you are 2 friends and want to do the sortie with a full squad, for example, do you have to disband and regroup after every single mission, just to avoid waiting for anyone or forcing anyone ? That's what you are proposing ? Do YOU do that ?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

41 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Depends ; they can be "doing something" in game (like format, switch gear, whatever) which shouldn't remove their ability to quit before the timer ends - or if they are doing something IRL, in that case, why do they stay in the group if they lose control over their choices while being in a public lobby ?

Also depends on latency as to how much time they actually get to bow out. 

So again, not a great move. 

42 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

And if you are 2 friends and want to do the sortie with a full squad, for example, do you have to disband and regroup after every single mission, just to avoid waiting for anyone or forcing anyone ? That's what you are proposing ? Do YOU do that ?

So you're talking about doing that...  twice in a 24 hour window? Sooooo onerous... However would you survive? 

Now let's consider something for a moment, your latest proposal is that you actually want to have a full squad. But you're also proposing an action where you suggest that "if they're not ready they can just leave". 

At some point you should be able to see how those are clearly contradictory statements. You're not going grasping at straws, but desperately grabbing anchors trying to justify actions that would show a lack of common courtesy and plain good manners. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 20 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

So you're talking about doing that...  twice in a 24 hour window? Sooooo onerous... However would you survive?

Happens a lot when you play 8 hours per day while duo with a friend and chaining liches or fissures ; like, even almost every single runs. Sortie was just an example, as stated.

But then, again, if i'm grouped with at least one friends and filling randoms and want to play the next mission, I start the vote. And wait. And after a decent time buffer, lets says 10-30seconds, if some people are still not voting, I allow myself to force, and they get another timer. If they are still there after that, it's on them.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Happens a lot when you play 8 hours per day while duo with a friend and chaining liches or fissures ; like, even almost every single runs. Sortie was just an example, as stated.

But then, again, if i'm grouped with at least one friends and filling randoms and want to play the next mission, I start the vote. And wait. And after a decent time buffer, lets says 10-30seconds, if some people are still not voting, I allow myself to force, and they get another timer. If they are still there after that, it's on them.

Oh fissures? Then you clearly have a very good reason to either wait, or bail, not to mention preform a group, right? You're clearly getting something out of the trade off, right? Because if they don't get the chance to pick a relic, you get nothing. So again you aren't making much sense there, are you? And even if they did pick one, but were ticked enough to leave? Same thing right, you're losing that possible reward? And even if they stayed AFK... Oops still not going to be opening that relic... So what have you benefitted? 

Let that sink in. Give it a moment of thought. 

 

 

And again, there's still the who aspect of common courtesy and simple manners, right? Remember, you're making cases where you actually need those people to actively participate. 

It's like a fissure I was in on Hydron with 3 saryns who just spammed the map even after I messaged them. 5 waves with only 7 reactants a piece, no relics opened. They all wanted to continue, but I chose to bow out. Would you have stayed? 

Now they have 3 players, no reward, and didn't benefit from what they chose to do. 

So again, no. 

 

 

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Because if they don't get the chance to pick a relic, you get nothing.

-

It's like a fissure I was in on Hydron with 3 saryns who just spammed the map even after I messaged them. 5 waves with only 7 reactants a piece, no relics opened. They all wanted to continue, but I chose to bow out. Would you have stayed?

You still open your relic and they get traces ; but yes, I was wrong to mention relic, as I never force a fissure because of the obvious relic choosing part. It was an oversight of my part; simply because you are really annoying to refuse to understand that I can't agree with OP.

-

And of course I would have stayed. It happens to nuke the map too quick on the first rotation, doesn't mean the whole run is meant to fail.

 

Il y a 1 heure, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

It's literally a matter of simple courtesy, and good manners.

il y a 52 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

Sooooo onerous... However would you survive?

You're not going grasping at straws, but desperately grabbing anchors trying to justify actions that would show a lack of common courtesy and plain good manners.

il y a 10 minutes, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

right? right? So again you aren't making much sense there, are you?

Let that sink in. Give it a moment of thought.

I'm sorry, but you are the least respectful person in this whole post.

[Zimzala]

I have to deeply thank many of the posters here for being giant sized examples of why PuGs in games have become worthless for me.

Why anyone subjects themselves to the random angst and general abuse that appears, to me, to continue to grow in these types of games is beyond me.

One of the only things I wish DE would add to the game is a real way to totally ignore other players, because without it, there is no ROI in PuGs IMO.

No virtual reward is worth having to play games with jerks.

[Zimzala]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

LOL!

Someone, anyone, trying to make others wait on their slow butt in a PUB room needs to leave the PUB room. 

Simple fact.

I'm on a clock when I play.

Sitting around waiting on you to "tweak" your frame/gun or what not is BS.

You should have entered the PUB ready to play.

And you calling us jerks makes you an "entitled" snob.

Do you make people wait on you in R/L?

I sure in the hell wouldn't. 

I'd leave your butt at the curb and make you walk.

Get over yourself.

BUH BYE!

Who said I disagree with people that don't like to wait?

Who said I expect anyone to wait for me?

Not me.

You see?

You assume and then attack.

Why would I want to play games with people that simply assume anyone not explicitly agreeing with them is the enemy?

I was very specific with my words, I did not choose a side, I am simply thankful my preference to solo has been re-validated.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, dwqrf said:

You still open your relic and they get traces ; but yes, I was wrong to mention relic, as I never force a fissure because of the obvious relic choosing part. It was an oversight of my part; simply because you are really annoying to refuse to understand that I can't agree with OP.

-

And of course I would have stayed. It happens to nuke the map too quick on the first rotation, doesn't mean the whole run is meant to fail.

 

I'm sorry, but you are the least respectful person in this whole post.

Ad hominem, does not bolster your case any. No matter what tone you perceived I dealt with what you said, and that's what we're here for. 

And as far as the Sarynx3 match, no it wouldn't mean that every single round was doomed to failure, but the simple fact that at least two of them chose to participate despite it being abundantly clearly that we weren't going to make the 10 reactants for the first round told me that they intended to keep at it. 

That's when I took my radiant relics off the table and found another group that had a bit more common sense. 

Oh and them getting traces would require they stick around or become active during your run. Not much of a benefit to you or them is that? 

 

[dwqrf]

Il y a 1 heure, (PS4)guzmantt1977 a dit :

That's when I took my radiant relics off the table and found another group that had a bit more common sense. 

Oh and them getting traces would require they stick around or become active during your run. Not much of a benefit to you or them is that? 

Here's my reply to what you wrote: "dont go public and problem solved".

So you try to open a random radiant relic in a public group, and when you don't even open it, you leave in fear of... Wasting it ? You didn't even lose anything, but you felt like it ? Radiant relic are such treasure for you, they need to be cherished and cared for, opened in one go or it's a disgrace ? Nobody care about what relic you put in public. It was a fissure on hydron, did it cross your mind that opening the relic was just a bonus while playing hydron for affinity ? So you deliberately ruin a full squad run of xp sharing + relic opening that could reach rot C + free iradiated relic at 25 just because of your own frustration of... What exactly ? Being carried too hard ? You talk about respect while leaving at first A, when 3 players obviously want to push it further ? That's closer to griefing than force starting here. You didn't even have to leave to do something important or else, you just left because of your feelings. That's childish. I think you spend too much time keyboard-warrioring the forum and the chat, and not enough playing the game.

What benefit are you even talking about ? You think I need to use other players for my own benefit ? You are truly mistaken, I don't need anyone to play any mission, ever. I solo tridolons, I solo railjack, I solo survival for hours. The reason I play public while duo with new players mates is to ensure a fair flow of xp and ressources for them. More players = more loot and more xp, not that it matters to me, as I stopped needing those years ago.

My game is always set on public as I don't mind meeting people on my way to help them out. I play exclusively with Shepherd, Vazarin and Fosfor to be sure everyone in the squad get the xp I produce, while surviving as long as possible. I heal the objectives, players, and their pets. And I turn around to travel 500 meters to insta-rez a downed lost soul. But I'm the selfish one, right ? I always do everything I can so that the missions is a success and other players have a good time, but I don't need anyone to play the game for me, or to make me wait in lobby. If I have to wait a minute in extraction, I don't mind. But in lobby during a mission vote, the respect is to either accept or to quit squad, and if you get force started, it's on you. In the case that I'm the stranger in a premade squad that needs time, then I leave.

YOU are the one having a problem with other people's ways of playing the game. I don't.

[podbacx]

On 2020-06-08 at 12:47 AM, ZeroX4 said:

i dont need to explain it to u
that does not mean i dont want to

dont need and dont want are 2 different things
i just carry everyone alongside like i dont mind i can solo it why no one else should benefit from that?

You are exactly the type of player the OP was complaining about.

I could explain to you why what you do & say is against all this community stands for, I could insult and name-call you, but I think, better yet, just get your IGN, add you to my Ignore List, and continue to live my life without your negativity. Of which, i see, there is plenty of.

Have a nice day! 

[Makunogo]

the only time i force start is when everyone else is waiting for the last person to accept and there has been no communication by the other person who hasn't started yet.

if they come back and whine its on them for not saying nothing. if they leave idgaf i can still progress without them.

 

in the case if lich/mur mur hunting. the only reason imo to not immediately start an other node is changing the positioning of your parazon mods which you can check during a mission and announce that you need to swap before extracting - which is what i do every time, as well as regular communication with the squad -

its become rather apparent that in lich or mur mur hunting groups the mentality is usually gogogo since the entire thing is on average a 2 hour process or more with crappy luck.

all in all communication is the important step here. however even with that some people force start cus they are impatient or just don't care at all.

the majority of the time it does not cause much hinderance except when one forgets to change the order of the parazon after a failed stab. 

if i need to swap mods i tell them before the mission is done. 

if i need to go to the washroom or get a drink i don't even bother saying anything. i just go. (while in missions) if a node hasnt been started i let them know to force start cus ill be away from my computer for 2-3 minutes.

also taking turns choosing nodes when you are in pubs so everyone has a chance to get their lich to spawn is a habit everyone should start for public groups

heck you may even recognize my name if you on PC Hi 😉

Edited June 9, 2020 by Makunogo

[Makunogo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)JohnWickHitman said:

LOL!

Someone, anyone, trying to make others wait on their slow butt in a PUB room needs to leave the PUB room. 

Simple fact.

I'm on a clock when I play.

Sitting around waiting on you to "tweak" your frame/gun or what not is BS.

You should have entered the PUB ready to play.

And you calling us jerks makes you an "entitled" snob.

Do you make people wait on you in R/L?

I sure in the hell wouldn't. 

I'd leave your butt at the curb and make you walk.

Get over yourself.

BUH BYE!

i would say you a little overqualified for "jerk" id say they were being nice..

[ZeroX4]

4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ad hominem, does not bolster your case any. No matter what tone you perceived I dealt with what you said, and that's what we're here for. 

And as far as the Sarynx3 match, no it wouldn't mean that every single round was doomed to failure, but the simple fact that at least two of them chose to participate despite it being abundantly clearly that we weren't going to make the 10 reactants for the first round told me that they intended to keep at it. 

That's when I took my radiant relics off the table and found another group that had a bit more common sense. 

Oh and them getting traces would require they stick around or become active during your run. Not much of a benefit to you or them is that? 

Here's my reply to what you wrote: "dont go public and problem solved". 

 

i dont have problem with anything and i shoul change something in my gameplay?
seems u have problem with some players so if u wanna change something start changing from urself

best option for u is not to play at all if u cant manage others behavior

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, podbacx said:

You are exactly the type of player the OP was complaining about.

I could explain to you why what you do & say is against all this community stands for, I could insult and name-call you, but I think, better yet, just get your IGN, add you to my Ignore List, and continue to live my life without your negativity. Of which, i see, there is plenty of.

Have a nice day! 

and thats the difference between us i dont need to insult u i dont need to ignore u (ignoring in game wont prevent u from meeting that player in randoms squad) and as for community standards
never heard of 1 allowing or soft accepting not to respect other players time

u go public squad for eidolons u dont expect everyone to have 500 hcaps+ and know what to do u go with what u get and if u complain about it then ur squad is not the problem here but u are

if u dont get it by now u wont get it till the end of time and neither me nor any other player is doing harm to u other than urself
 

[MagPrime]

Amazing, 4 pages of this.

For people who don't want their time wasted, you sure are wasting a lot of time trying to win an argument on the internet. 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

For people who don't want their time wasted, you sure are wasting a lot of time trying to win an argument on the internet.

Surprised?

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Surprised?

Not at all, just amazed.  It's been awhile since I saw a thread like this last this long sans moderation.  

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, MagPrime a dit :

Amazing, 4 pages of this.

For people who don't want their time wasted, you sure are wasting a lot of time trying to win an argument on the internet. 

If I could play Warframe on my phone instead of petty fighting on a forum, I would. Nonetheless, I'm curious about your opinion. Mind sharing ?

[MagPrime]

8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

If I could play Warframe on my phone instead of petty fighting on a forum, I would. Nonetheless, I'm curious about your opinion. Mind sharing ?

About the topic?

I really don't appreciate force starting, mainly because whomever does it tends to time it just right for when I can't leave group in time.  So I wind up loading into the Liset just in time for the counter to boot me back into another loading screen, when I actually wanted to do something else.  It's aggravating, especially when they then send me PM's for bailing on a mission I didn't want and threaten to report me or griefing.  (My goodness was it ALT+F4 inducing when this happened on the Surface, I had 3 minute load times, and this just made everything worse because I had no choice and no way to talk during load times)

In situations where everyone has loaded out properly and I know I need to get water or change a 'frame, I simply leave the group so that I'm not hindering their progress, and if someone says they need a minute to do something, I give them about that before I go find another group. 

The idea that you're time is valuable and therefore superceeds basic manners is...toxic, at best.  Yeah, people want to play, we all get that, but you have multiple options to continue doing so that doesn't mess with other players.

Please understand, I am not taking jabs at anyone.  You wanted my stance, that's what it is.  If anyone choose to take affront to it, not really anything I can do about it.  

We have the tools to avoid situations like this, a lot of people in here are refusing to acknowledge that.

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by MagPrime

[dwqrf]

Much appreciated. Staying on topic with some valids points keep the lock away.

If we could have a client option to "auto-quit the group if I didn't accept the vote after the end of the force-start timer", would everyone be happy ?