Valkyr is going to become irrelevant

[Anaktoria]

10 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

It is a big problem because its casting cost is 6 energy with no amount of supplementary energy sources being able to excuse cowardice gameplay the design hysteria encourages of having to keep toggling it on and off to keep it energy efficient...

Just jumping in to say my energy never dips below 500 out of 640 and rarely below 550 when I play with my build on Mot (both Steel Path and vanilla), without toggling Hysteria a single time in two hours 🤗

[Andele3025]

Just now, DontRunWScissors said:

Thank you for burning Nyx, I absolutely despise her. You clearly don't understand how Energize works, so I think I'll have to explain why energy is not a concern when it's equipped. Energize pulses energy outwards when you pick up an energy orb, if you're getting consistent kills (hey look, another reward for not being a coward) energy orbs drop very frequently. With a rank 9 primed flow my Valkyr Prime gets 600 energy, which means I can stay in hysteria for 150 seconds, or nearly 3 minutes without doing anything, how is it hard to maintain energy with these two factors? The point of her stored damage is to kill enemies before deactivating it, which by the way, is another reward for not being cowardly. Give a mind controlled crewman some credit, unlike your Valkyr, it can actually do something besides whine about not having energy.

How do you still not understand that the sustained cost of a skill costing over half its activation cost after a arbitrary amount of time is bad design? And ontop one that encourages cowardice. And no, while your valkyrs are leaking energy left and right while you protect the cowardice design and dont even fight enemies as nyx ai; a actually good melee weapon doesnt care and kills like a berserker should.

[DontRunWScissors]

7 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

It is a big problem because its casting cost is 6 energy with no amount of supplementary energy sources being able to excuse cowardice gameplay the design hysteria encourages of having to keep toggling it on and off to keep it energy efficient. And no you are not because the aoe check is LOS based (and if you're a saladheaded mega coward, go gun-n-blade to swaps to gun before toggling it off as it then never deals damage instead of meleeing on the berserker whose 3/4 abilities are melee focused and 4/4 would be if ripline had its pull strengths swapped).

Having the cost increase with time instead of enemies that are around that you didnt damage/attack or damage stored already, that has non-kill coward options of avoiding the damage stored literally the opposite of a berserker/kill-encouraging kit design, how do you not understand this you less than nyx ai thinking corpus repos?

Optimized build stats:
600 energy
160% Duration
160% Efficiency
40% Range
205% Strength
0.63-3.75 Drain on Hysteria.
No energize, just energy restores.
My build is optimized, not minmaxed, and I do not struggle with maintaining my energy at all. Even without Energize I am usually getting enough kills to keep my supply of energy orbs consistent. From your statement about having 6 energy at max I can already tell you haven't built her properly. You don't know what you're talking about, and that has been proven by your build. Stop complaining on the forums that you struggle with maintaining energy and go and make a proper build. You're doing nothing but making yourself look worse, so just stop.

[DontRunWScissors]

As you can tell, 3.75 is less than half of my activation cost. Shut your mouth and get your build in shape.

[Andele3025]

3 minutes ago, Anaktoria said:

Just jumping in to say my energy never dips below 500 out of 640 and rarely below 550 when I play with my build on Mot (both Steel Path and vanilla), without toggling Hysteria a single time in two hours 🤗

Just now, DontRunWScissors said:

 From your statement about having 6 energy at max I can already tell you haven't built her properly. You don't know what you're talking about, and that has been proven by your build. Stop complaining on the forums that you struggle with maintaining energy and go and make a proper build. You're doing nothing but making yourself look worse, so just stop.

Ok, be hysterical cowards ignoring the point and argument, when you cant even differentiate design from compensating builds.
I wont lower myself to your level just because you cant understand what logic is about a kit that has over 50% of its cast cost as sustain cost at 75% efficiency.

[Anaktoria]

1 minute ago, Andele3025 said:

Ok, be hysterical cowards ignoring the point and argument, when you cant even differentiate design from compensating builds.
I wont lower myself to your level just because you cant understand what logic is about a kit that has over 50% of its cast cost as sustain cost at 75% efficiency.

IDK where "hysterical cowards" comes into it, we're just tryna tell you you're wrong and probably need a better Valkyr build, my guy. (Especially if you're running 75% efficiency - yikes!)

[DontRunWScissors]

1 minute ago, Andele3025 said:

Ok, be hysterical cowards ignoring the point and argument, when you cant even differentiate design from compensating builds.
I wont lower myself to your level just because you cant understand what logic is about a kit that has over 50% of its cast cost as sustain cost at 75% efficiency.

Holy S#&$ man, the entire point is your build is ruining the ability, Efficiency is the most important stat, it's not her design's fault, it's your build's fault. It's no wonder you can't maintain your energy, you're using a S#&$ build. It's like running Saryn with negative range, it just doesn't make sense or help you.

[Benaful]

I use valkyr 2 and 4, i have hysteria augument Umbral mods and natural talent, so i can Spam Warcry CC dont wasting time in skill animations makes her very powerfull, also you add primed range in valkyr since you dont need primed presure point,  i want to add Fire walker to give movement speed and status inmunity to valkyr, this way no more random magnetic procs or slash damage. She feels awsome she is my second most used frame, Nasty base stats and feels sweet. If you want to add Blind rage to all your builds, then the problem is you not valkyr, there is some diversity in building actually altough not much. i am MR 27

[Andele3025]

45 minutes ago, DontRunWScissors said:

Holy S#&$ man, the entire point is your build is ruining the ability, Efficiency is the most important stat, it's not her design's fault, it's your build's fault. It's no wonder you can't maintain your energy, you're using a S#&$ build. It's like running Saryn with negative range, it just doesn't make sense or help you.

Dude, the build isnt whats relevant, you can sustain her even at 45% efficiency by using pads or from 135% with duration, doesnt change that you seem to be physically incapable of comprehending that if a ability at +75% efficiency has a cost thats over 50% of the activation cost BASED ON A ARBITRARY TIME USING IT is bad design, and with the rest of its mechanics is rewarding cowardice playstyle, but since you people like that feel free to excuse bad design with compensatory builds (not that it changes the facts).

[Benaful]

hace 2 minutos, Andele3025 dijo:

Dude, the build isnt whats relevant, you can sustain her even at 45% efficiency by using pads or from 135% with duration, doesnt change that you seem to be physically incapable of comprehending that if a ability at +75% efficiency has a cost thats over 50% of the activation cost BASED ON A ARBITRARY TIME USING IT is bad design, and with the rest of its mechanics is rewarding cowardice playstyle, but since you people like that feel free to excuse bad design with compensatory builds (not that it changes the facts).

Yhea valkyr 4 whit no auguments is bad, need a eficient build and dont do enough damage, also normally short range. i had to compensate for all those weakness somehow.

[gabuchan]

On 2020-08-20 at 5:15 AM, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

It seems the devs have noticed. Even though it's a step forward, I hope the value is low enough that only Valkyr can allow to truly benefict from it, but high enough it's not just an AoE slow + armor buff. And still, I would rather give Ripline anyways, but it seems they are testing so lets trust on them for now.

 

It's a terrible fix to just nerf Warcry for everyone else. It won't make Valkyr any better. I'm glad they picked Warcry to give away. I actually want Valkyr's player count to tank further so that DE can FINALLY look at the rest of her kit and rework it.

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

hace 7 horas, gabuchan dijo:

It's a terrible fix to just nerf Warcry for everyone else. It won't make Valkyr any better. I'm glad they picked Warcry to give away. I actually want Valkyr's player count to tank further so that DE can FINALLY look at the rest of her kit and rework it.

Aside from maybe having nerfed those abilities because they thought they are too OP to have on everyone, I prefer to think at least the nerf to Warcry was to try help her preserve her role on teams (still depends on the value they finally decide tho). Also they are the ones with the power, if they wanted to rework her they could just do it. Leaving her in a worse condition just to have a reason to rework her seems a bit irrational to me.

[Jazoom]

On 2020-08-14 at 12:16 AM, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

Unless one enjoys the frame itself.

This post is a bit ranty and has many things all over the place, so be warned. Tl:dwtr is the last paragraph.

Even though a lot of people were asking DE to make Ripline universal they have chosen to give out Warcry. Great. I would want to point out why I think this is a great mistake.

So first of all, Valkyr has never been near a meta frame, anywhere, since the nerf. Right now, and before yesterday, all her abilities are / were greatly outmatched (there will always be someone who says otherwise, but it's honestly how I feel), but right now she's been literally ripped of the only thing she still had, and soon will have no other use than to be digested within the wall along the mastery points she gives.

Ripline has no uses. This has been said a lot of times already and won't go into it. It's just a "parkour complement". Deals negligible damage, clunky physics, mobility powercreeped by the cost free Spoiler mode. This ability clearly doesn’t make her relevant.

Paralysis is a subpar ability at best. Unreliable to open to finishers, unreliable augment given it relies on base functionality, and subpar damage given Valkyr has a small amount of shields she still wastes per-level upgrades on increasing somehow. Right now it's only purpose resides solely on low levels, and it's by no means exceptional. This ability doesn’t make her relevant either.

Hysteria had power, was a good ability, but with time everything has been ripped off from it. Starting with the cost nerf, somewhat justified, extremely limiting, and with time the reason it came to exist becoming imitable. Then it was given a subpar augment hardly justifiable when compared to the ones from other exalted weapons that even had to be added a nowhere-mentioned aspect to fix it's clunky functionality. "She has enough damage and it's fun", and it is indeed, even if it looks like a bandaid of what Ripline wasn't able to do shoved onto the ability as an augment.
But then came Baruuk, literally copy pasting Hysteria's stats, improving it, and getting an augment that is actually useful and with which I bet people are having more fun power tripping, controlled by the Restraint that a pair of MOAs or Lancers can totally erase within seconds. And with melee 2.9 Hysteria can't even match the levels of damage some normal weapons that don't cost 15/s can pull off, so right now it just shines because of it’s intermittent invincibility and healing.
Of course one can use the other augment and gain more damage against normal enemies and old bosses that haven’t been “updated” yet, that still didn’t make her more relevant in any way, and then have the only ability in the game with a cooldown outside ESO. Looks like they had to balance the fun Hysterical Assault brought.
It’s her ultimate, she is known for it, but I still haven’t seen it make her relevant other than when the Wolf was around, and mostly because IIRC back then current melee version wasn’t around and he was immune to statuses and most abilties. The tankiness it gave her was made irrelevant the moment Inaros was released.

And with all this, Valkyr still had her place. But now that everyone can have Warcry, what's her purpose? Yes, she can get other good abilities too from other frames, but then what's her self worth? Is she supposed to be only viable within her designed role by relying on other frame's better abilities? And even with all this, I'm still not confident she will regain any relevance, given frames like Gauss are almost an upgrade to EW Valkyr outside very few specifics, and Baruuk with Warcry will wipe the floor with everything whereas Hysteria, even with upgraded damage from Roar or Eclipse, will still only be useful for the same given most other melee weapons will do more damage along it's remaining limitations.
There are also some other "minor" implications, like for example that everyone will now probably "have a voice" when originally it was only Valkyr due to her lore, making it even more incomprehensible.

Conclusion, don't give Warcry out, nor Paralysis given I don't think anyone wants it outside Hildryn shenaningans or whatever.
What I suggest, pick one of the many ideas you have been given through the years, improve Ripline as you did with Airburst and the likes (there are many very simple but effective additions, doesn’t need to be a mini-rework) , and make Ripline be the subsumed ability to be given. People that wanted it are now happy and have an abillity that's now also useful, Valkyr is improved, and she conserves the only niche she has along her uniqueness. You already did this with Itzal, same animations and everything, I don’t see how Ripline is so “signature” it can’t be given away.
Or, if you prefer Warcry to be the ability to be given, just make Warcry a Helminth ability, give a legendary core to everyone that had her in their inventory, and delete her from the game, given her files take space. It's probably what will be left of her at this rate anyways.

I  just made a video on youtube using Valkyr, she is one of the best warframe to bring in for boss killing for Steel Path.
In addition, she performs EXCEPTIONALLY well with a decent team within 1-24 rounds of any disruption map which provides a ton of relics/kuva.

If you're building for hysteria, sure you're going to have some issues but her base armor + the proper build will allow her to face level 200 enemies without any issues.

For me her and any gunblade are a lethal combination. Eternal War + Naramon = some red crit fun.

[DontRunWScissors]

9 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Dude, the build isnt whats relevant, you can sustain her even at 45% efficiency by using pads or from 135% with duration, doesnt change that you seem to be physically incapable of comprehending that if a ability at +75% efficiency has a cost thats over 50% of the activation cost BASED ON A ARBITRARY TIME USING IT is bad design, and with the rest of its mechanics is rewarding cowardice playstyle, but since you people like that feel free to excuse bad design with compensatory builds (not that it changes the facts).

The build is entirely what is relevant, it's unfair to judge a frame if you're using a bad build on said frame. Of course a frame is going to be bad if your build is bad. The entire point of a build is to improve on the frame's base kit, so if you have a bad build you're going to have a bad time. You're trying to say that she's a bad frame while you're using a bad build, of course she's going to be bad if you're using such a piss poor build. Imagine I bring a negative duration and range Volt into ESO, then I complain when my discharge can't kill anything, or if I bring a Saryn with negative range, and then complain when my spores and miasma can barely reach targets. The entire point of this game is to make your build better, and it seems you don't understand that. You're going to do absolutely nothing to change my mind, because I know that her Talons are good when used properly.

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, Jazoom said:

I  just made a video on youtube using Valkyr, she is one of the best warframe to bring in for boss killing for Steel Path.
In addition, she performs EXCEPTIONALLY well with a decent team within 1-24 rounds of any disruption map which provides a ton of relics/kuva.

If you're building for hysteria, sure you're going to have some issues but her base armor + the proper build will allow her to face level 200 enemies without any issues.

For me her and any gunblade are a lethal combination. Eternal War + Naramon = some red crit fun.

This was just for fun and it was not a speed run, it's not valkyr but you can compare them lol...

 

 

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

hace 1 hora, Jazoom dijo:

 

For bosses, what bib linked is basically what I was going to say. She's good for general killing and that most of the time include bosses, but even that won't redeem her given frames like Mag can also get a fast time with decent weapons (or Ivara f.e.), and there are some bosses she's not even usable against (Ropalolyst, Sargas Ruk, Lephantis f.e.) (just in case, do note not redeeming her != her being left without any use).

And what you showed in the video is precisely my point. On the video it's Warcry what's allowing Stropha to shoot incredibly fast (along Strike, but most of the push is WC), but now it can be given to everyone. Chroma can perfectly fit that build you used, allowing him to use Warcry properly and even gain strong armor bonuses (that along EW gives him way more EHP than Valkyr) plus a damage buff from (iirc) ~930-ish-%. There's no way Valkyr can compete with that either by moving faster, having an additional layer of DR, or gaining a damage boost (that it seems is now going to be smaller). Sure, you can build Valkyr for Hysteria and say she now has 100% invincibility over him, but 1) You have lost kill potential, due to the limitations Hysteria and in general Exalted Weapons have over normal weapons, and 2) Will he really need it?

Now, if the Helminth-Warcry gives a smaller amount of AS, even tho Chroma has all those things, maybe the extra boost from things like Roar will allow her to still have a relevant DPS compared to him (supposing both use the exact same melee) and still hold the niche of fast-tanky melee, but that's still something DE has to set on stone.

[gabuchan]

11 hours ago, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

Also they are the ones with the power, if they wanted to rework her they could just do it. Leaving her in a worse condition just to have a reason to rework her seems a bit irrational to me.

That's the thing. She's needed a rework for some time. Valkyr mains have been asking for a rework for years now, but we've always been ignored. It's come to the point that the only way DE is going to notice that Valkyr needs a rework is if they see Valkyr become nothing more than Helminth food after this update.