Valkyr is going to become irrelevant

[Ender140]

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

Nekros's augmented Soul Punch would be actually pretty good on a designated healer frame, like Trinity.

Even if your teammate dies, you can instantly revive them with no effort.

It would be optimal for those rare pug long runs, Wisp could use that too.

That I didn't know. Might be useful with Inaros. Team Medic

[kgabor]

1 minute ago, Ender140 said:

I'm sorry I don't have Equinox. But are you always in night form if you don't use her 1? And does that mean you always have her damage and speed boost?

Your default form depends on your energy color and so will the subsumed Rest/Rage's forms too.

The boosts from using Metamorphosys will not be activated by subsumed abilities unless a bug occurs, i assume.

[Ender140]

27 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Your default form depends on your energy color and so will the subsumed Rest/Rage's forms too.

The boosts from using Metamorphosys will not be activated by subsumed abilities unless a bug occurs, i assume.

Oh no I mean with equinox. If you remove her 1 do you keep her boost? If not, then isn't replacing it with warcry counterproductive?

[kgabor]

4 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Oh no I mean with equinox. If you remove her 1 do you keep her boost? If not, then isn't replacing it with warcry counterproductive?

I meant Equinox and the other frames using Rest/Rage.

I don't think the permanent bonuses would change at all, only the temporary ones given by Metamorphosys, so the permanent bonuses associated with each form would stay the same.

For some reason the wiki lists those stats under Metamorphosys, but it's a passive given to the forms, you have them even if you don't use Metamorphosys during a mission.

[Ender140]

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

I meant Equinox and the other frames using Rest/Rage.

I don't think the permanent bonuses would change at all, only the temporary ones given by Metamorphosys, so the permanent bonuses associated with each form would stay the same.

For some reason the wiki lists those stats under Metamorphosys, but it's a passive given to the forms, you have them even if you don't use Metamorphosys during a mission.

Well then that would be interesting to see when the update comes out.

[Deminisis]

Valkyr and Valkyr Prime stand as my 2 most used Warframes currently, but after this update I'm quite certain I won't use her again. I'll likely switch to a warcry Wisp or Inaros. I'm not interested in arguing over what is or isn't good about her kit, but warcry was all I used her for.

[selig_fay]

53 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

I'll likely switch to a warcry Wisp or Inaros.

I don't think you can use warcry for wisp. 1 damage buff per frame limitation can be applied to this one. On the other hand, perhaps zephyr 2 will be able to work with the paralysis augment.

[bibmobello]

4 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I don't think you can use warcry for wisp. 1 damage buff per frame limitation can be applied to this one. On the other hand, perhaps zephyr 2 will be able to work with the paralysis augment.

Warcry is not considered a damage buff ability at least on the wiki.

[selig_fay]

7 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Warcry is not considered a damage buff ability at least on the wiki.

But it still increases your dps.

[bibmobello]

15 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

But it still increases your dps.

tell it to DE...

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

hace 10 horas, Anaktoria dijo:

Y'all are playing Valkyr the wrong way. She's not a team buff 'frame, nor an AoE nuker

Aight.

Also what is this even, DE's animators doing their work making all the cool combos and you say this

hace 10 horas, Anaktoria dijo:

I like spamming slide, but if you don't, you should probably not play Valkyr

Being fun doesn't mean shes's saved from being eclipsed. Zephyr can be fun, so does Hydroid, and both are not dead given they still see at least a bit use. But when it comes to things that redeem them, only Hydroid has the loot augment (not saying they don't serve for other things).

Also her appeal doesn't (at least, not always) come from combining Warcry with a weapon that costs 15/s, even if for you does (which is respectable), but by using normal melees available to everyone given these have way higher damage and can be hybrid (plus most actually have decent stances). There is where the problem resides, as it has been talked about on this thread.

 

hace 7 horas, Ender140 dijo:

She IS REDUNDANT. They already STOPPED using her. SHE HAS 1 USEFULL SKILL. (...) The only thing that's being prevented here is having a usefull skill added to the system.

Idk. Treat these words as if I had said nothing.

 

hace 8 horas, Ender140 dijo:

(...) Lets not give away Hildryn's pillage. Now THAT is a signature ability. Lets just not give away ANY usefull abilities. Lets just give away their most useless and worthless abilities. (...)

That's not the point I defend, in case you were referring to my comment or MetalPhoenix's, with which I agree too. The system can have all the flashiest and coolest abilties of each frame, I wouldn't care, as long as said frame giving its ability isn't rendered obsolete by another frame with said ability. Of course this is a difficult task to achieve given the elevated number of combinations, which is why threads like this came to exist, to try to point out said ocurrences (on some cases it's not that difficult tho, like f.e. as long as Saryn doesn't give Spores I don't think she will become obsolete). In my case I don't know much about how this system can potentially be "harmful" to other frames given I prefer to stick to Valkyr, but as I play her the most I think I can help a bit with this.

For the other ones you mentioned, as I said I don't know much if they are affected, but apply the same logic. On jacks of all trades I think it would be mostly the contrary, given as they can do many things (even if not the best), then giving away one of their abilities shouldn't leave them without any redeeming uses, but even with this still apply the same logic.

Also there are probably many frames out of which all abilities are signature, which is why this system feels somewhat strange to me (I can't remember a game that has "classes" or whatever, in which each character is supposed to feel special, and that has a system like this one. Like idk, imagine LoL with this system). For example and as you say, Excalibur. All his abilities make use of Exalted Blade, and none of them should be given to anyone, given they would imply the use of EB that's signature to him, but it seems this system is as ruthless as it gets. Hope the frame just like points up their melee weapon and the flash appears, rather than invoking the blade as Excalibur does. Or Chroma screaming with Valkyr's voice. It just makes no sense.

[selig_fay]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

It just makes no sense.

We all know that the signature ability - it's just an excuse. As Titania main a, who suffered the least (lol, you'll get the most useless of our ability), I can say that spellbind is our signature ability, because it's a reference to fairy pollen, which can't be without wings. All frames are unique and each ability can be called a signature.

I think the point is that the developers don't consider warcry unique in its effects. I don't want to get your hopes up, but maybe the developers have their own plans for ripline and paralysis that may be presented in the future. And I think ripline is a cool concept. For example, if this thing will drag not one enemy, but 5 at once, it can be very useful.

[bibmobello]

34 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

We all know that the signature ability - it's just an excuse. As Titania main a, who suffered the least (lol, you'll get the most useless of our ability), I can say that spellbind is our signature ability, because it's a reference to fairy pollen, which can't be without wings. All frames are unique and each ability can be called a signature.

I think the point is that the developers don't consider warcry unique in its effects. I don't want to get your hopes up, but maybe the developers have their own plans for ripline and paralysis that may be presented in the future. And I think ripline is a cool concept. For example, if this thing will drag not one enemy, but 5 at once, it can be very useful.

Hey WTF are you talking about???

Ripline is the best ability...

 

 

 

 

... To troll people!

lol

[selig_fay]

12 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Ripline is the best ability...

.. To troll people!

I'm not even close to writing this.

[kgabor]

1 hour ago, selig_fay said:

We all know that the signature ability - it's just an excuse. As Titania main a, who suffered the least (lol, you'll get the most useless of our ability)

Doesn't Spellbind have an augment that can gain energy for cc-ing crowds of enemies?

I tried that on Titania while leveling her, but i didn't have much range on my build, so the effects weren't noticeable.

It might have some pretty nice synergies with frames using high ability range builds.

I will probably put that on some of my frames if it's consistent enough.

Most of my high ability range frames are either not energy hungry (like Volt, Nyx)or have their own energy generating mechanic though.(Harrow)

Loki will probably get this, maybe Vauban too.

[selig_fay]

17 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Doesn't Spellbind have an augment that can gain energy for cc-ing crowds of enemies?

I tried that on Titania while leveling her, but i didn't have much range on my build, so the effects weren't noticeable.

This is very specific. Especially against a dispenser or Trinity 1 or Gara 3. I would recommend Gara 3 if you need a good CC with energy. Unfortunately spellbind is a bad CC. But if you look at the status of immunity with energy, it is possible. But I think if you don't have energy problems and you need status immunity - firewalker.

[Anaktoria]

6 hours ago, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

Aight.

Also what is this even, DE's animators doing their work making all the cool combos and you say this

Being fun doesn't mean shes's saved from being eclipsed. Zephyr can be fun, so does Hydroid, and both are not dead given they still see at least a bit use. But when it comes to things that redeem them, only Hydroid has the loot augment (not saying they don't serve for other things).

Also her appeal doesn't (at least, not always) come from combining Warcry with a weapon that costs 15/s, even if for you does (which is respectable), but by using normal melees available to everyone given these have way higher damage and can be hybrid (plus most actually have decent stances). There is where the problem resides, as it has been talked about on this thread.

Nah I'm serious. Y'all are playing her wrong. She's not meta, she's a fun DPS Warframe with her own valid playstyle that admittedly is not meta for teams nor has much to do with team buffing, a playstyle that you either like, or don't. That's it.

She's only eclipsed if you prioritize Warframes that are good at team buffing or nuking/cheesing. She's not a cheeser. She's her own thing and Helminth doesn't change that. She's still quite fun and powerful, even now. See above - able to go solo at least up to level 500 normal star chart and level 300 Steel Path without dying or breaking so much as a sweat, without using any gear items, specters, or anything besides Hysteria.

Her weapon doesn't cost 15/s if you mod it correctly, as I believe I mentioned. If it does, you aren't playing her optimally. You can say she isn't powerful if you aren't, but granted, plenty of Warframes also can only handle up to, say, Sortie level content if they aren't built or played optimally. That doesn't make her unique.

Y'all are making this a bigger deal than it is. Valkyr is just fine. Is she perfect? Absolutely not and there are plenty of suggestions for improvement I, as a Valkyr main with 600+ hours and 40% playtime on her, could offer. But she's my main for a reason, and I love her and always have and always will. Yes, I have Saryn and Protea and Mesa and yes, I can insta-clear rooms with them. Those are the Warframes I use when I want to be lazy and cheese things. Valkyr is still my go-to when I just want to kick back solo in Steel Path Mot for thirty minutes after work and decompress, because I think her playstyle is fun, and it gets the job done even in high-level content, and that's it. (Also, you can't seriously tell me getting 100% immortality at the same time that you get an honestly very good Exalted melee, all for the price of 3.75 energy if built right, isn't pretty damn good, in contrast to "dead" 'frames like the ones you mentioned, Zephyr and Hydroid.)

Whether or not you see her as irrelevant is entirely up to the choices you make, and what standards you impose for enjoying your content, and what you focus on. Is she irrelevant to meta cheesers? Yep. Does that mean you need to treat her as entirely useless now? Not at all. Learn to accept things as they are and you will see there's more to Warframe than being a slave to the arbitrary, ever-changing nuke meta.

(Also, re: your dig about melee animations: I really like committing genocide by power-slide. It's the same feeling you get drifting your way through a racetrack, only faster and now with 100% more murder and screaming. I do trigger her heavy-attack kicks and her sucker-punch combo from time to time too, but sliding is my favorite. Sue me.)

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

21 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

Y'all are playing Valkyr the wrong way. She's not a team buff 'frame, nor an AoE nuker, she's a hardcore solo enemy killer whose second-to-second mechanics you either love or don't. I do. I adore blenderizing my way through the hordes at the speed of sound for two hours solo in Steel Path Mot, not needing to use any gear items or specters or god forbid needing to rely on teammates, loving the sound of her claws slicing flesh, never dying, hardly taking damage, never losing energy because I've got Energize, maximum efficiency, and maximum energy on me. I like spamming slide, but if you don't, you should probably not play Valkyr. She's not meta cheese, she's just fun as is. Stop trying to say she's dead because now everyone can share in the Warcry goodness; her real appeal comes from combining Warcry with Hysteria anyway.

If you use an eternal Hysteria/high efficiency build plus a decent standard crit/Primed Fever Strike claws build, you can easily solo shred up to at least level 500 without a sweat on the normal star chart, and at least level 300 in Steel Path (didn't bother to go further in either case; she can probably go further). I recently forma'd her to add high duration Eternal War on the eternal Hysteria build so that would probably take her even further - I did not use Warcry at all in either of the cases mentioned above, solely Hysteria and her talons (no elemental status priming or CO either).

Ya know, i always knew eternal hysteria was powerful(i don't use elemental primers or CO either for my setups.) but i never tackled it because i never NEEDED to.

I'll probably look into working with another config to push her all the way.

though it is nice to see someone else who appreciates Valkyr for what she can really do.

[Anaktoria]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

Ya know, i always knew eternal hysteria was powerful(i don't use elemental primers or CO either for my setups.) but i never tackled it because i never NEEDED to.

I'll probably look into working with another config to push her all the way.

though it is nice to see someone else who appreciates Valkyr for what she can really do.

Hell yeah, my brother/sister/sibling! She's a thing to behold when you build her that way. I look forward to the great stuff you'll do with her ❤️

[Andele3025]

9 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

Her weapon doesn't cost 15/s if you mod it correctly, as I believe I mentioned. If it does, you aren't playing her optimally. You can say she isn't powerful if you aren't, but granted, plenty of Warframes also can only handle up to, say, Sortie level content if they aren't built or played optimally. That doesn't make her unique.

3.75/s~5.03/s (depending on if you truly go full efficiency or just go for value breakpoint) is still too much for doing what you're supposed to be doing/for using it the correct way instead of as a cowards tool. She is a berserker and DE needs to make hysterias upkeep and damage stored take it into account since just sticking for full 30s instead of resetting 20s is more energy drained for no reason (and god forbid you stick around for a full wave of a mission in it as its over half the base cast cost every second it drains). She should be losing tiny bits of health (like 3-5 hp) thats not effected by mods and then that value and her damage increase based on the amount of damage stored in comparison to hp as a % (so that her claw lifesteal has a use), which in turn could/would be reduced by kills a tiny bit and fully finishers, BERSERK, RIP AND TEAR, RAGE, SEEK MORE ENEMIES TO KILL, not by being a coward stowing away toggling the damn 4 because of energy inefficiency.

TLDR: DE needs to undo the second dream nerfs to hysteria at least if not make it Nier A2 berserk style (but with invul).

The fact that the berserker frame punishes you for being a berserker and instead rewards cowardice does make her kinda unique in the fact that she is the only frame that clashes with her theme from a mechanics point that much.

9 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

(Also, re: your dig about melee animations: I really like committing genocide by power-slide. It's the same feeling you get drifting your way through a racetrack, only faster and now with 100% more murder and screaming. I do trigger her heavy-attack kicks and her sucker-punch combo from time to time too, but sliding is my favorite. Sue me.)

Slide attack is also the best damage wise due to 3x base and multihit, do wish they didnt make the kick the default heavy over repeat clawing/the old pause combo jump, either way tho doesnt change DE managed to go from meh but ok enough stance animations to somehow near worst due to the added animation locks and trims that changed reset timing to be even lower (meaning you need to macro if you want to use warcry+berserker for the combos themselves).
Also let valkitty spin glide without doing the quick attack swap instead of "air block" while invult while making the HA augment cause jumps/spin do the slide attack damage! Full Samus screw attack.

[selig_fay]

Well, I would replace hysteria by making the ability duration, changing invulnerability to unkilleble, which would disable shields (that is, shields could not absorb damage in this mode). Add here a short duration (like 5 seconds and an additional 3 seconds per kill) and the garuda passive ability. 

I think it would look funny and good to rage even against 9999, because you won't die and get energy. This would mean that even if the ability is useless as a damage, it could be useful as a utility and temporary protection.

[Gurpgork]

10 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

She's not a cheeser.

Ohhhh yes she is. Especially if you're advocating for Hysteria slide attack spam. In fact, the whole reason Hysteria has the increasing energy drain in the first place is because people were using it to cheese solo survival and other missions like that. 

Most games that let you be immortal forever the way Valkyr can just come right out and call it a cheat code. 

[Anaktoria]

20 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Ohhhh yes she is. Especially if you're advocating for Hysteria slide attack spam. In fact, the whole reason Hysteria has the increasing energy drain in the first place is because people were using it to cheese solo survival and other missions like that. 

Most games that let you be immortal forever the way Valkyr can just come right out and call it a cheat code. 

Okay yes you're absolutely right but shhhh don't let DE hear it or they'll nerf her again.

More accurately she's not a "press one or two buttons and AFK for a long time/the rest of the mission to win" style of cheeser.

  

1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

3.75/s~5.03/s (depending on if you truly go full efficiency or just go for value breakpoint) is still too much for doing what you're supposed to be doing/for using it the correct way instead of as a cowards tool. She is a berserker and DE needs to make hysterias upkeep and damage stored take it into account since just sticking for full 30s instead of resetting 20s is more energy drained for no reason (and god forbid you stick around for a full wave of a mission in it as its over half the base cast cost every second it drains). She should be losing tiny bits of health (like 3-5 hp) thats not effected by mods and then that value and her damage increase based on the amount of damage stored in comparison to hp as a % (so that her claw lifesteal has a use), which in turn could/would be reduced by kills a tiny bit and fully finishers, BERSERK, RIP AND TEAR, RAGE, SEEK MORE ENEMIES TO KILL, not by being a coward stowing away toggling the damn 4 because of energy inefficiency.

TLDR: DE needs to undo the second dream nerfs to hysteria at least if not make it Nier A2 berserk style (but with invul).

The fact that the berserker frame punishes you for being a berserker and instead rewards cowardice does make her kinda unique in the fact that she is the only frame that clashes with her theme from a mechanics point that much.

Slide attack is also the best damage wise due to 3x base and multihit, do wish they didnt make the kick the default heavy over repeat clawing/the old pause combo jump, either way tho doesnt change DE managed to go from meh but ok enough stance animations to somehow near worst due to the added animation locks and trims that changed reset timing to be even lower (meaning you need to macro if you want to use warcry+berserker for the combos themselves).
Also let valkitty spin glide without doing the quick attack swap instead of "air block" while invult while making the HA augment cause jumps/spin do the slide attack damage! Full Samus screw attack.

With Energize and max efficiency it's just fine for me but YMMV. Definitely true about the slide attack damage tho.

[Gurpgork]

9 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

Okay yes you're absolutely right but shhhh don't let DE hear it or they'll nerf her again.

Meh. I don't necessarily think they need to. Part of me almost hopes that they would, because if she was as legitimately bad as people say then she might actually get a rework. I just get really tired of the janky, antiquated mechanics sometimes. 

That said, I really don't think it needs a nerf necessarily. Builds using Warcry and Prolonged Paralysis in tandem are her best builds anyway and I will die on that hill. 

9 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

More accurately she's not a "press one or two buttons and AFK for a long time/the rest of the mission to win" style of cheeser.

True. She also really only cheeses the game for herself and not for the whole squad. She's a lot less disruptive in that regard. 

[Drachnyn]

DE cares a lot about usage statistics (too much in my opinion). Maybe with valkyr becoming F tier now (F standing for food in this case) her usage will drop so hard that DE feels compelled to rework her.