Maybe we should nerf razorwing blitz speed?

[selig_fay]

I'm not quite sure why we need this speed. There is an archwing for open world. For normal missions, this does not save much time. I mean, maybe 5-10 seconds, I'm not worried, because standard razorwing with boost is fast enough, and blitz players tend to get stuck in walls.

I suggest making razorwing give 25% rate of fire/attack speed and 5% speed. 300% strength-this will be 60% and I think this is enough for a comfortable movement. But now, at +300% speed, it breaks the gameplay. Speaking of gameplay, I mean combat.

[Leqesai]

I don't think you understand the point of the speed increase on this augment.

While the speed increase is intentionally beneficial in some situations it is intentionally detrimental in others. The fire rate bonus is exceptionally high for such an augment and it is offset by the increase in movement-related difficulty that you get from the crazy movement speed.

With 0 movement speed bonus the fire rate would be too much of a statistical improvement to warrant it as an augment.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

I don't think you understand the point of the speed increase on this augment.

While the speed increase is intentionally beneficial in some situations it is intentionally detrimental in others. The fire rate bonus is exceptionally high for such an augment and it is offset by the increase in movement-related difficulty that you get from the crazy movement speed.

With 0 movement speed bonus the fire rate would be too much of a statistical improvement to warrant it as an augment.

I don't think this is a problem, because most players can stop and start shooting, turning Titania into a kind of turret. On the other hand, it literally becomes useless for players who prefer movement. Of course, you can still manage it, but without inertia, it just got bad.

[Aadi880]

4 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

but without inertia, it just got bad.

Hell no!

The inertia was what ruined the augment for me really. Absolutely hated that, and I am glad its gone.

Being able to stop instantly is a godsend because the host you are playing with is connecting from Mars and that grinner door is refusing to open.

If speed is an actual issue to you, then I would like for you to recall Titania's controls just after the first archwing changes (Blink and Itzel nerf), and just before Titania's ability changes (which was just before her prime).

In that small period of time, it was actually possible to "select razorwing blitz speed" by holding down W and S while moving forward.  Titania would start to decelerate and upon releasing S, she would fly at a constant cruising speed. Meaning, at 300% power strength, you would get you 300% buffed fire rate, but your speed increase could have been set to 25%/35%/50% etc at will.

The ability to do this got removed after the archwing changes got completely ported to Titania during her prime access.

If THAT functionality is brought back, then it would be nice, but NOT the inertia. Because f*** that s*** really...

[selig_fay]

20 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

The inertia was what ruined the augment for me really. Absolutely hated that, and I am glad its gone.

I'm not happy about it. At the very least, this could have been left as an additional feature in the form of a tick in the settings. Where are my times when I could simultaneously fly and discuss some nonsense with friends in a chat?

22 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

In that small period of time, it was actually possible to

"select razorwing blitz speed" by holding down W and S while moving forward. Titania would start to decelerate and upon releasing S, she would fly at a constant cruising speed. Meaning, at 300% power strength, you would get you 300% buffed fire rate, but your speed increase could have been set to 25%/35%/50% etc at will.

Unfortunately, I don't know what you're talking about. Previously, there was inertia for me to control the speed. If I wanted to stop instantly, I used backevade. But maybe it was, I just didn't catch it.

[Starz]

37 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I'm not happy about it. At the very least, this could have been left as an additional feature in the form of a tick in the settings.

I wish they had just added an option to toggle on and off the inertia, could have put it in Archwing Controls and called it "Auto-Breaking" or "Auto-Stop". This change has overall ruined Titania for me. I still play her from time to time but I get nowhere near as much enjoyment out of it.

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Pixzia said:

I wish they had just added an option to toggle on and off the inertia, could have put it in Archwing Controls and called it "Auto-Breaking" or "Auto-Stop". This change has overall ruined Titania for me. I still play her from time to time but I get nowhere near as much enjoyment out of it.

I agree. In fact, I sometimes think it's so situational that it could become a separate ability. Or a button. Or a combination of buttons.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, selig_fay said:

I don't think this is a problem, because most players can stop and start shooting, turning Titania into a kind of turret. On the other hand, it literally becomes useless for players who prefer movement. Of course, you can still manage it, but without inertia, it just got bad.

What you've described is exactly the reason why the extra speed is an intended mobility restriction. It forces players to adjust their playstyle to reflect the insane movement while blitz is in full effect. The uncontrollable inertia/flight is the cause, the 'turret mode' is the effect. Without the uncontrollable flight Titania's DPS would be ridiculous (not factoring helminth potential into this as it spikes her DPS another few notches already).

[Aadi880]

Honestly, I don't really get the problem with excess mobility here at all.

If you think you cannot control Titania flying at max strength blitz, why don't you just hold W? It would be very much identical as flying at half speed while still retaining the fire rate. You don't NEED to hold shift + W to fly. Just holding "w" should do just fine.

If THAT is too fast, then idk. But I'll always say "no" to inertia. Titania should feel agile (She is a pixie), not weigh a thousand pounds just to stop and accelerate back to full.

[selig_fay]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What you've described is exactly the reason why the extra speed is an intended mobility restriction. It forces players to adjust their playstyle to reflect the insane movement while blitz is in full effect. The uncontrollable inertia/flight is the cause, the 'turret mode' is the effect. Without the uncontrollable flight Titania's DPS would be ridiculous (not factoring helminth potential into this as it spikes her DPS another few notches already).

To be honest, I don't see much logic in this, because without pistoleer (which should get a fix, which will make it worse for Titania) and energy ammunition, razorwing blitz won't make much more DPS than a build without it, because ammo cap.

But OK. If people are against it, I have no reason to dispute leaving it as it is. I just wanted to find out what people think about it and maybe find people who have learned to control it.

In the end, maybe I'll get my archgun augment and be happy with it that I'll lose interest in blitz (because we know that you can't put two augments on 1 ability) even if it gets nerf for convenience.

2 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

If you think you cannot control Titania flying at max strength blitz, why don't you just hold W? It would be very much identical as flying at half speed while still retaining the fire rate. You don't NEED to hold shift + W to fly. Just holding "w" should do just fine.

Because if I just click w button, I'll move half the room. I mentioned boost as something that is very fast for Titania without blitz and +60% will be almost the same as blitz without boost. And I think you agree with that, blitz players are giving up on boost. And that's why I think this change won't be very negative. Maybe I'm wrong about something? I just want to say that in my opinion, blitz is overly mobile, which is a negative experience and this is why I don't want to use it on normal missions (Yes, against Lephantis it's OK, there's not much to move around)

 But as I said above, I'll be fine if that doesn't change. I just wanted to raise this discussion and find out what people think about it.

[TheNeonGod]

Well I use blink to regain control on tight turns, if you can't handle the speed, then use arcane velocity with some sprint speed mods on Titania. Also razorwing blitz build is not that energy efficient either, because you have to cast abilities while in razorwing to have the boost. I use this when it comes to farming sabotage or relic missions. 

[bibmobello]

I have never seen a titania playing this game and the few times i did, she dead on the floor.

[selig_fay]

2 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I have never seen a titania playing this game and the few times i did, she dead on the floor.

In fact, Titania can be very tanky with an aviator, aerodynamics and shields. This provides 89% DR. Given the Tribute, we can get 94.5% DR, just for the fact that we are flying or just playing bunny, since the aviator and aerodynamics seem to work like a passive Wisp and last 1 second when we touch the ground. But even if not, it works well. And that's because shields have 25% DR by default.

If you like, I can show you how well this works for steel path for any mission except some bosses and demolists, because it requires gunblade, which means I will be using vazarin.

But I think most of the Titanias that you see are players, they are players who make rank. After Titania's Prime time, I really haven't seen a single full rank player on it. I mean, the rank of the frame, not mr.

[selig_fay]

I don't need speed mods. In fact, for fun, my friend and I compared Titania to Gauss. He used speed mods besides the aura. I haven't used anything for speed. When I moved with the boost and hit the teleport window well, I moved in about the same way as gauss 1. And this on an almost smooth surface.

I'm just wondering why you need so much speed?

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I have never seen a titania playing this game and the few times i did, she dead on the floor.

Then the people you saw had no idea what they were doing. She is very strong. Both in defense and offense.

[bibmobello]

 

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

In fact, Titania can be very tanky with an aviator, aerodynamics and shields. This provides 89% DR. Given the Tribute, we can get 94.5% DR, just for the fact that we are flying or just playing bunny, since the aviator and aerodynamics seem to work like a passive Wisp and last 1 second when we touch the ground. But even if not, it works well. And that's because shields have 25% DR by default.

If you like, I can show you how well this works for steel path for any mission except some bosses and demolists, because it requires gunblade, which means I will be using vazarin.

But I think most of the Titanias that you see are players, they are players who make rank. After Titania's Prime time, I really haven't seen a single full rank player on it. I mean, the rank of the frame, not mr.

For SP? You are talking how if SP should be a serious hard game... You can use every frame there because you know, you have rolling guard, void mode, shield gating and people play just 5 minutes and never play that mission again. Yes it's so hard.. i played with nekros without any health and armor for 1 hour  dying 0 times...

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, bibmobello said:

 

For SP? You are talking how if SP should be a serious hard game... You can use every frame there because you know, you have rolling guard, void mode, shield gating and people play just 5 minutes and never play that mission again. Yes it's so hard.. i played with nekros without any health and armor for 1 hour  dying 0 times...

I'm talking about real tanking with shields, not shieldgate. My shields rarely fall.

On the other hand, if you want to feel difficult, don't play necros in survival, because necros has a big bonus here. While this is also not difficult, but simple, the truth is, meta frames should not be a complaint about difficult. 

[Angwah]

Uhuh, dying while playing Titania shouldn't really happen. A proper Razorwing Titania is one of the tankier frames in the game.

Anyway, played her a lot, and I really tried to make that augment work, but it's just a trap option sadly.

Razorwing Titania doesn't need more speed, nor does she need the attack speed. You need your movement, but controlled especially in solo SP against those big crowds of hitscanning Corpus, or you actually will die.  And even with a regular fire rate increasing mod you are reduced to bursting or you constantly run your guns empty. Arcane Pistoleer will help, but eh, with her damage output and some punch-through there really is just no point, especially as on top of sacrificing controlled movement you need to cast way more to keep it going than a Razorwing Titania can afford.

So, a cost you don't want to pay for something that doesn't truly benefit you. Seriously, don't slot it.

[selig_fay]

11 hours ago, Angwah said:

Razorwing Titania doesn't need more speed, nor does she need the attack speed.

Dex Pixia is a status weapon. I don't care if people modify it for crit, but the truth is that status weapons benefit from the rate of fire, because the more hits, the more statuses. 

Another point, pistoleer isn't the only thing that helps ammo. Don't consider what I'm showing archgun, it's not relevant to the topic.

 

[Leqesai]

10 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Dex Pixia is a status weapon. I don't care if people modify it for crit, but the truth is that status weapons benefit from the rate of fire, because the more hits, the more statuses. 

Another point, pistoleer isn't the only thing that helps ammo. Don't consider what I'm showing archgun, it's not relevant to the topic.

 

By your same logic the dex pixia is also crit viable because the fire rate means more crits.

I have a very powerful titania build that uses a crit+status setup. Why? Because it is markedly better than pure crit or pure status. Hybrid builds are the meta and if you think dex pixia isnt viable for crit them you are majorly losing out on damage potential.

What is needed to make the pixia truly powerful is a combination of fire rate, crit and status. You are 100% right in that fire rate is important for her. Anyone who knows anything about razorwing blitz will be able to tell you that it is an absolutely stupid boost to dps. 

 

[Leqesai]

20 hours ago, bibmobello said:

 

For SP? You are talking how if SP should be a serious hard game... You can use every frame there because you know, you have rolling guard, void mode, shield gating and people play just 5 minutes and never play that mission again. Yes it's so hard.. i played with nekros without any health and armor for 1 hour  dying 0 times...

Steel path is the hardest content in warframe. Your anecdotal evidence is not proof to the contrary. 

[kwlingo]

You must be a Wukong, Gauss, or Volt main. lol Sorry but nope. Dont use archwing as an excuse. All the speed frame always exit when I run Titania for speed runs. lol

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What is needed to make the pixia truly powerful is a combination of fire rate, crit and status. You are 100% right in that fire rate is important for her. Anyone who knows anything about razorwing blitz will be able to tell you that it is an absolutely stupid boost to dps.

The problem is that if something isn't done with ammo recovery or efficiency, it won't be a strong push. I compare blitz to how you turn a Dex Pixia into a shotgun. Yes, you can have a good burst damage, but you have a long recharge. Minigun build is what all Titania strive for, because you don't need high burst damage against normal mobs, you want normal damage distribution.

Yes, crit weapons are fine, but the standard Dex Pixia is a 10% crit and x2 multiplier, and the crit Dex Pixia is a 28% crit and x4.2 multiplier. I just don't think it's much unless you put an extra 47% from arcane.

On the other hand, in the status build, I focus on how often I will do slash prock against the virus + ammo recovery. Unfortunately, I can't use blitz because of the speed, so I use arcane velocity. Arcane precision is a must for razorwing builds, so I can't put arcane energize, but this is solved with a dispenser, allowing you to opt out of energy efficiency. arcane velocity does the same thing as the blitz (of course less), meaning there is an ammunition problem and it looks more like a rifle with a small number of rounds. Since I can't put a pistoleer on the minigun build because all the arcane slots are occupied, I have to rely on ammo recovery. But I lose the mod slot, which makes crit build very inefficient.

[selig_fay]

Just now, kwlingo said:

You must be a Wukong, Gauss, or Volt main. lol Sorry but nope. Dont use archwing as an excuse. All the speed frame always exit when I run Titania for speed runs. lol

Lol. I use Titania everywhere. Don't make excuses for speed run.

[kwlingo]

3 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Lol. I use Titania everywhere. Don't make excuses for speed run.

I cannot wait for to test out the speed helminth ability on RWBlitz. Gonna be 0.5 seconds crossing the open world maps corner to corner