Why can’t the host kick people out of the squad while in the orbiter?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

True and it’s funny because they’re telling me how I should play. I’m saying I shouldn’t have to disband and they’re saying I should have to disband. I think that kind of thinking is also bad for the game because if nothing changes, then nothing improves. Maybe kicking is a great idea or a terrible idea, but we’ll never know if people instantly reject it without even considering the possibility that it could be a good addition. 

We've all considered the possibility because we've seen it on other games. Are you new to online games or something? The one constant that doesn't change is the people involved. Have you not seen the limbo threads? The Saryn threads or any nuke threads? The Bramma threads? The anti-low MR and casual player threads?  Are you aware that people can be extremely petty? Are you aware that you, yourself, are asking for this kick feature presumably to use it probably very often since you're so adamant about it? 

[Felsagger]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Then provide some proof that this will become a toxic thing. 

 

Provide proof? 

 

Destiny 2. 

[Felsagger]

37 minutes ago, Cloud said:

The kick option from party is present in almost every online game on market since ages, and was always an effective tool to manage team interactions. I don't really know what you're talking about neither what you're saying is "universally proven".

 

 

DE excluded it for a reason. 

 

 

[Cloud]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

DE excluded it for a reason. 

 

 

To enhance and remove any limits from matchmaking. It's the same very reason we're not permitted to set ourselves as host while creating a public session. 

In theory since warframe has not an overwhelming player population especially in niche acitivities giving us the option to fragmentate even more the power of matchmaking would result in more players having difficulty finding a full pub session.

The problem is not the "drama" or abuse you were talking about, the real problem is that giving players more options on "who to play with" would actually let us notice how the game is not very populated.

[Felsagger]

10 minutes ago, Cloud said:

To enhance and remove any limits from matchmaking. It's the same very reason we're not permitted to set ourselves as host while creating a public session. 

In theory since warframe has not an overwhelming player population especially in niche acitivities giving us the option to fragmentate even more the power of matchmaking would result in more players having difficulty finding a full pub session.

The problem is not the "drama" or abuse you were talking about, the real problem is that giving players more options on "who to play with" would actually let us notice how the game is not very populated.

 

 

War frame community is way better and different than the community of CoD, Destiny 1, Destiny 2 or Fortnite. 

 

Our community solves problems intelligently. We don't want users abusing the kicking because someone is Hispanic, European or Middle Eastern. The population of War Frame is based on a good set of rules and norms and behavior that settles the community apart. A vote kick or kicking in general is an open door for drama, issues and arguments between players. 

DE took away Law of Retribution because the level of insults and debates where out of this world. DE doesn't have the luxury to build a bad reputation of a toxic environment in the game. I don't want kicking in any form when you have your brain and common sense evading the problem selecting your team. 

If playing solo, invites only, friends only are there then vote kick is not needed at all. If a member becomes a nuisance then break the squad and reinvite. It's not that hard. When people tries to stir up drama smart users simply breaks up the squad and recall the good players who are interested in the task. Simple as that. 

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

34 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

 

War frame community is way better and different than the community of CoD, Destiny 1, Destiny 2 or Fortnite. 

 

Our community solves problems intelligently. We don't want users abusing the kicking because someone is Hispanic, European or Middle Eastern. The population of War Frame is based on a good set of rules and norms and behavior that settles the community apart. A vote kick or kicking in general is an open door for drama, issues and arguments between players. 

DE took away Law of Retribution because the level of insults and debates where out of this world. DE doesn't have the luxury to build a bad reputation of a toxic environment in the game. I don't want kicking in any form when you have your brain and common sense evading the problem selecting your team. 

If playing solo, invites only, friends only are there then vote kick is not needed at all. If a member becomes a nuisance then break the squad and reinvite. It's not that hard. When people tries to stir up drama smart users simply breaks up the squad and recall the good players who are interested in the task. Simple as that. 

I dunno, that just sounds like kicking with extra steps.

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

We've all considered the possibility because we've seen it on other games. Are you new to online games or something? The one constant that doesn't change is the people involved. Have you not seen the limbo threads? The Saryn threads or any nuke threads? The Bramma threads? The anti-low MR and casual player threads?  Are you aware that people can be extremely petty? Are you aware that you, yourself, are asking for this kick feature presumably to use it probably very often since you're so adamant about it? 

People can already get rid of others by disbanding so is the kick option going to create pettiness where there was none? No and I don’t think it will create any more if it’s added and no one seems to be able to prove that it will. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

 

Provide proof? 

 

Destiny 2. 

That’s the name of a game. It’s not proof. 

[Felsagger]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

That’s the name of a game. It’s not proof. 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

People can already get rid of others by disbanding so is the kick option going to create pettiness where there was none? No and I don’t think it will create any more if it’s added and no one seems to be able to prove that it will. 

The proof requires you to have a modicum of honesty with yourself and realize people on the internet can do bad things if given the opportunity.....would you right here and right now, say that is not true? It sounds like you're simply saying "everything will be fine" as a blanket reasoning but that's not enough. 

I played a game with a kick feature and it was shortly given a 3 hour cooldown per person. Would you be ok with a 2 to 5 hour timer on your kick?

You have just been repeating yourself saying "I don't think anything bad will happen" with no proof yourself at all. You want the kick feature only to apply in the orbiter....but most matches are queued publically so you just randomly go into the mission. So if you're making a group from the orbiter....You're already making a premade group....so you control who is invited anyway. If you ran a public match....and like usual ended up in your orbiter afterwards...I'm guessing this is where you would want the kick feature? Maybe a guy was afk so you want to kick him and redo the mission? Well you've now just made another premade and now you can simply turn on "invite only" so you don't get anymore pugs in your group that you may be forced to kick. 

Maybe you can help provide some other scenarios where an orbiter-only kick would be needed? Besides after public missions....only you control who is in your group inside the orbiter so would be your personal responsibility at work.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

On 2020-09-25 at 5:20 PM, Yagamilight123 said:

if you are making a group asking for "x" things and someone ends up not having it or similar there is no way to kick him ... you need to regroup .

You say...while in a thread specifically asking why can't the host just kick those people out.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

20 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. it does, I've been kicked in other games for choosing a certain character, or simply because I'm the only person not in a clan, and thus get voted against by the clan. 

All of those kicks on you were completely justified to be honest.

 

If your party wants you to be a certain character, it's no loner about just you anymore, it's you getting in the way a majority. And while it sucks that you're not in the clan and can't be in the group, it's their right as a clan to only have their own in their party, or depending on the game, maybe you being around prevented a clan mate from getting in.

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

11 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

Speak for yourself. 

 

 

It doesn't matter if you disagrees. It was proven that such kicking option caused drama in many other games. We don't want drama in this game. 

 

Period. 

Speaking in bold means I'm correct, regardless of whether I provide actual evidence of my claim or not.

[IamLoco]

While it looks very tempting on paper, a kick option would most certainly ruin the game for new players.

- Limbo players would be constantly kicked

- MR 20-29 players would rush through Sorties while MR7s+ would scream at each other in "their" parties

- Don´t forget there are 12 y/olds playing this game who might not have understood the principle of team work. "I won´t allow another Mesa P in MY GAME who steals MY KILLS!"

- Oh no, this guy uses a Bramma! My Laptop can´t handle all the effects, let´s get rid of them.

 

You see a pattern here? It would be aweful playing public, even way more than it is now.

EDIT: Also, it´s a popular misconception to believe just because you are the host, it´s your game. It is not. You are simply hosting, you´re not better nor more important than anyone else. If you plan a certain party, make sure it´s invite only and don´t play public.

[IceColdHawk]

52 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

I started to get annoying of people not even understanding what this thread is about :S .... this suggesting is only for planed parties/groups .... not for public .....  and as a host that ask people in recruitment tab IT IS YOUR GAME/GROUP . How people are gonna get kicked in the orbiter in a public game if you dont even know if you are gonna be the host and you dont have even time to see who is in the party ?.... nobody said that the host can kick people once in the mission .

They just read the word "kick" and get insta-triggered because they know they'd likely be the first ones to get kicked.

[Brosef42]

I swear no one read OP's post. He even mentioned it several times. He wasn't talking mid mission kicking. He was talking specifically talking about before mission vote kicking. Why can't I kick the afk guy from my party. Why do we both, my friend and I have to leave every time. Then reform. Even more annoying if you play with two other people. You end up having to do that every mission. Leave and reform. Their should be an option before the mission to kick. 

What negative would this bring? If a party doesn't want to play with you and the mission hasn't started. They are gonna leave anyways. The only difference now. They can remove the unwanted party member. You all seem hell bent to force people to play together. Because possible abuse. That's not a good answer. We still have voice chat and party chat isn't moderated. You gonna try to tell me that never get abused. It does. When it is. You report them. You don't throw out the whole bunch because of a couple bad apples. 

[Felsagger]

Speaking in bold accentuate words or sentences important for the discourse. Proof was given before. 

Let me correct your low quality trolling.  

2 hours ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

Speaking in bold means that I want to accentuate ideas where previous evidence was provided  

Now this makes more sense. 

 

Vote kicking and kicking in general has NO place in this game. We don't need it. We don't want it. It will solve zero problems. On the contrary it will increases grudges between players. 

[Brosef42]

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Speaking in bold accentuate words or sentences important for the discourse. Proof was given before. 

No it wasn't. You showed them kicking during the game. We are specifically talking about before and after the mission is over only. In that instance you can see everyone in the group already. 

Let's break it down. So you can understand step by step. You and your friend join a public match. You won't be allowed to vote during a mission. If people don't want to stay they can leave. nothing new so far. Then once the mission is over. You are sitting in the orbiter. It you, your friend and a random. Now unless you leave group and reform you cant get rid of them. How is their abuse? With out it the votekick you are just forcing them to leave and rejoin every time. While with the vote kick that person would just be back by himself and nothing would have changed for them No reward lost. 

[Acersecomic]

Because then we'd get the "no noob tube/martyr custom rules. While I do agree with no tube/martyr one, it is EXTREMELY open to abuse about what people can or cannot bring because host is a metatard.

[Brosef42]

10 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Because then we'd get the "no noob tube/martyr custom rules. While I do agree with no tube/martyr one, it is EXTREMELY open to abuse about what people can or cannot bring because host is a metatard.

You didn't read the post dude. If you did. You would understand how that wouldn't be possible during a mission and why that already happens before and after missions already. With groups being forced to disband while forming if people don't bring what's required. I'm surprise you people don't think the Leave party is bad because people might feel offended that people leave when they join with their meme build. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

Ok so vote kicking becomes toxic. Now prove host kicking becomes toxic.  

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Brosef42 said:

No it wasn't. You showed them kicking during the game. We are specifically talking about before and after the mission is over only. In that instance you can see everyone in the group already. 

 

I showed what that can possibly cause. 

The conception of kicking is a detriment to the community because it separates and create grudges between players. If the player selects carefully their friends then none of this happens. Yes there are people with mental impairments, there are people with brain wiring that renders impairment on the get go. We may select people who are not schizophrenic, people with Asperger or people with borderline personality disorder. 

Ableism is a reality in our society such as racism, discrimination and of course segregation. Yes we have the right to choose our friends but hurting them with our actions is way too far. I can be polite and we should be polite with people who are less fortunate with their biology and intelligence. We should not treat them like useless animals or clueless beasts. Kicking accentuate those issues exponentially. 

On the other hand you have the people who miss behave or simply act immature. Kicking fuels them to retaliate and cause more drama within the game. It will generate a tone of gossip, back stabbing and tons of arguments eroding the atmosphere of the game. This happened before in Destiny 1. I've seen this all the time. we've seen this in Law of Retribution and Jordas' Verdict. 

We can't applaud or empower people with such responsibilities. The best diplomatic solution is to simply disengage breaking the squad and reassembling it again with the people who are interested doing the task. May this should as a remedy? No. We are being polite with our action. It's a signature of how we do things here. I took my moderation and suspensions but taught me well. I took my random bans on the chat for using key words. What we achieved during such process? 

 

DISCIPLINE.  

However people who are in control of these feature may cause more problems than solutions. Discrimination, racism and bulling is one of those consequences. Remember, nobody is perfect, nobody is a saint and nobody has the whole truth. However giving these features to players erodes even more the community. 

 

1 hour ago, Brosef42 said:

Let's break it down. So you can understand step by step. You and your friend join a public match. You won't be allowed to vote during a mission. If people don't want to stay they can leave. nothing new so far. Then once the mission is over. You are sitting in the orbiter. It you, your friend and a random. Now unless you leave group and reform you cant get rid of them. How is their abuse? With out it the votekick you are just forcing them to leave and rejoin every time. While with the vote kick that person would just be back by himself and nothing would have changed for them No reward lost. 

 

Problem with such description and logistics:

a. You select your friends previously in a full squad or friends invites. So there are no 'seats' for random players. If you want full squads you need four friends committed to one goal. Can't fill the squad? Deal with what you have in the mission. You can play solo or work with a team of two or three. 

b. If one of your friends went south after the mission you simply break the squad and form again the team who is interested in the task at hand. If you select a random then you have to deal with the random. Simple. How you evade that? Invites only or friends only. Simple. 

c. Plan ahead means that you have to not deal with randoms who becomes insolent or deal with strangers who exercise their #$&(% bag gene. You don't need the vote kick, you don't need kicking at all. We went throughout seven years without that options. Why we need it now? Caprice? 

 

Sorry but I'm going blunt here. The original poster is draining himself in a glass of water with a stupid simple problem like this. 

 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

The proof requires you to have a modicum of honesty with yourself and realize people on the internet can do bad things if given the opportunity.....would you right here and right now, say that is not true? It sounds like you're simply saying "everything will be fine" as a blanket reasoning but that's not enough. 

I played a game with a kick feature and it was shortly given a 3 hour cooldown per person. Would you be ok with a 2 to 5 hour timer on your kick?

You have just been repeating yourself saying "I don't think anything bad will happen" with no proof yourself at all. You want the kick feature only to apply in the orbiter....but most matches are queued publically so you just randomly go into the mission. So if you're making a group from the orbiter....You're already making a premade group....so you control who is invited anyway. If you ran a public match....and like usual ended up in your orbiter afterwards...I'm guessing this is where you would want the kick feature? Maybe a guy was afk so you want to kick him and redo the mission? Well you've now just made another premade and now you can simply turn on "invite only" so you don't get anymore pugs in your group that you may be forced to kick. 

Maybe you can help provide some other scenarios where an orbiter-only kick would be needed? Besides after public missions....only you control who is in your group inside the orbiter so would be your personal responsibility at work.

I did provide proof.
 

The guy adamantly saying it will become toxic agreed with me when I said disbanding and reforming the squad is the same thing as host kicking with extra steps. Even though they’re the same, host migrations don’t get abused. There’s only 2 reasons that I can see. Either host kicking isn’t going to cause as big of a problem as people say or everyone besides me isn’t smart enough to figure out that it could be abused the same as kicking. Even the raids that required specific setups didn’t get infested with toxicity. It was there, but it was pretty minimal compared to other games I’ve seen and there were thousands of people willing to help out noobs in those. 
 

The problem with proof in this post is all the people claiming this will become toxic aren’t proving their claim or they don’t read and talk about vote kicking and try to prove that’s toxic. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

Because then we'd get the "no noob tube/martyr custom rules. While I do agree with no tube/martyr one, it is EXTREMELY open to abuse about what people can or cannot bring because host is a metatard.

Correct. 

Some players can impose drastic parameters to certain squads and of course Limbo doesn't help on such matter. We will see the classical vocabulary of nubs, scrubs, dolts, posers and leeches more often. The environment will grow toxic again. 

 

DE said no to such 'destiny'. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

4 hours ago, IamLoco said:

While it looks very tempting on paper, a kick option would most certainly ruin the game for new players.

- Limbo players would be constantly kicked

- MR 20-29 players would rush through Sorties while MR7s+ would scream at each other in "their" parties

- Don´t forget there are 12 y/olds playing this game who might not have understood the principle of team work. "I won´t allow another Mesa P in MY GAME who steals MY KILLS!"

- Oh no, this guy uses a Bramma! My Laptop can´t handle all the effects, let´s get rid of them.

 

You see a pattern here? It would be aweful playing public, even way more than it is now.

EDIT: Also, it´s a popular misconception to believe just because you are the host, it´s your game. It is not. You are simply hosting, you´re not better nor more important than anyone else. If you plan a certain party, make sure it´s invite only and don´t play public.

All of those situations would end in the host disbanding the squad so what’s the difference between that and the option to kick?