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Shouldn't Magazine Warp be an exilus mod alongside Ammo Drum?


PiFlavour

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The thinking is that magazine size and reload speed affect your sustained DPS by reducing the downtime of reloading (either by extending the time between reloads or reducing the time of the reload).  I don't agree with it as the effect on DPS is minor, but that's the reasoning.

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16 minutes ago, PiFlavour said:

Aren't the point of exilus mods is to benefit your build in any way possible??

The point of exilus mods is utility, providing convenience and quality of life without increasing your power. If they increased your power - in this case, greatly diminishing reload downtime and therefore increasing your DPS - then they would be mandatory, and effectively no different from every other slot on the weapon/Warframe. The only reason they're allowed to have a dedicated slot in the first place is that they don't increase your power, meaning they weren't worth using one of the main slots for.

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I'd like reload and magazine affixes to be available for exilus, even if it has to be new mods with lesser bonuses in DE's estimation.  (Although I also think the regular mods could use a buff.)  The magazine mods are worth a regular slot in a few cases, so they at least warrant some additional care.

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5 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

The point of exilus mods is utility, providing convenience and quality of life without increasing your power. If they increased your power - in this case, greatly diminishing reload downtime and therefore increasing your DPS - then they would be mandatory, and effectively no different from every other slot on the weapon/Warframe. The only reason they're allowed to have a dedicated slot in the first place is that they don't increase your power, meaning they weren't worth using one of the main slots for.

Diminished downtime/dps boost is 0 because you can reload when your magazine isnt empty between enemies. Not to mention that recoil, flight speed, etc are all by that logic also increasing your power yet still exilus.

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6 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Diminished downtime/dps boost is 0 because you can reload when your magazine isnt empty between enemies. Not to mention that recoil, flight speed, etc are all by that logic also increasing your power yet still exilus.

Less reloading = less downtime = more DPS. You don't always kill things fast enough to reload between enemies, and if you're fighting a lot of enemies or a lot of strong enemies or even individual very strong enemies, you will be reloading while fighting them and putting out more DPS because of less downtime. Having reload speed as an exilus would make it a mandatory exilus mod, forcing out every other option because it is not utility.

By that logic, recoil and flight speed do not affect DPS. You are incorrect on both.

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50 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Less reloading = less downtime = more DPS. You don't always kill things fast enough to reload between enemies, and if you're fighting a lot of enemies or a lot of strong enemies or even individual very strong enemies, you will be reloading while fighting them and putting out more DPS because of less downtime. Having reload speed as an exilus would make it a mandatory exilus mod, forcing out every other option because it is not utility.

By that logic, recoil and flight speed do not affect DPS. You are incorrect on both.

No, by your logic recoil influences dps because it gives more headshots. Same for flight speed which aside from obvious lower need to lead actually increases dps by increasing falloff distances.
Both are exilus.

And no, unless you're using something like a viper or didnt reload between rooms n packs on long reload weapons chances of you actually needing to reload mid fight are minimal aka 0 actual dps difference.

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17 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

The point of exilus mods is utility, providing convenience and quality of life without increasing your power.

Except that reload speed or magazine capacity are utiltiy stats for weapons; just liek recoil or fall-off distance. Weapon's main purpose is to deal damage, thus any stat improvement will in return increase their lethality, or damage.
Not to mention, DE still did not made actuall utlity mods without any damage increase exilus, like Sharpshooter.

The whole narartive around "paper DPS" creates incomprehensible reasoning, exceptions etc. In regards to Exilus there should be only 1 question deciding whether it is utility or not - does a mod increase damage per ammo spent?

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11 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Having reload speed as an exilus would make it a mandatory exilus mod, forcing out every other option because it is not utility.

Popular, certainly.   Reload is an easy default choice.  And a lot of people don't fully understand how much things like recoil and falloff can affect dps and--unlike reload-- these aren't reflected in online calculators. 

"Mandatory"? Nah, even without taking that word literally.  The exilus mods that are popular now would still get used frequently, depending on the weapon.  The various Projectile Speed, -Recoil, Ammo Mutation, and Passive Reload mods would continue to get slotted a lot.  And a few more would still get used infrequently / situationally, like Silence, Holster Speed, Cautious Shot, Adhesive Blast, the exilus augments, and probably a few more.

For me personally, there are only two, maybe three specific weapons I know I'd slot reload on and pretty much leave it there:  Argonak and Sonicor, both of which suffer from major reload downtime, but I actually like shooting so much (and their actual reload animations) that passive reload isn't appealing.     The maybe is Trumna.

I could  easily see reload speed being the most popular choices.    But no way they'd be the only popular choices.

I -do- think it might be justifiable if DE released new, somewhat weaker but exilus-eligible reload mods.  But the current mods could use a buff anyway, and particularly in that case.

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Personally, Reload Speed is mandatory on anything with 3 seconds or higher reload time, even without it being Exilus.  I hate lengthy reload at that is my cut off for what is comfortable to use and what is unbearable. Maybe I should try out those new fangled mods that reload when holstered...

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15 hours ago, ShortCat said:

there should be only 1 question deciding whether it is utility or not - does a mod increase damage per ammo spent?

Except that's not how DPS works at all, because there are more factors than the damage of each shot.

Would you make Gunslinger an Exilus mod?

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10 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

because there are more factors than the damage of each shot.

You mean like recoil or projectile travel speed or accuracy or chance to increase a crit rating? Indeed there are, because...

On 2020-10-13 at 12:48 PM, ShortCat said:

Weapon's main purpose is to deal damage, thus any stat improvement will in return increase their lethality, or actual damage.

Current rules are arbitrary and make no sense.

 

10 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Would you make Gunslinger an Exilus mod?

If you are asking me whether firerate is a utility stat - Yes. According to your own logic, you would have to reload more often, which then decreases DPS. Furthermore, rolead speed mods would get a real competition, wouldn't they?
Jokes aside, firerate is not a free damage boost, since it is still limited by other factors like ammo economy or weapon handling stats (recoil/accuracy/mag-reload ratio etc).

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On 2020-10-12 at 6:19 PM, AdunSaveMe said:

The point of exilus mods is utility, providing convenience and quality of life without increasing your power. If they increased your power - in this case, greatly diminishing reload downtime and therefore increasing your DPS - then they would be mandatory, and effectively no different from every other slot on the weapon/Warframe. The only reason they're allowed to have a dedicated slot in the first place is that they don't increase your power, meaning they weren't worth using one of the main slots for.

While I agree that adding reload and mag capacity mods would increase sustained DPS, I disagree that they would be mandatory. Weapons need different mods in that slot to help them out a little, whether that be ammo mutation, recoil reduction, bullet speed or a silencer, having the ability to equip a reload or mag capacity mod fits the idea of what the exilus slot is for imo - a quality of life slot.

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