Corinth sticky bombs

[(XBOX)ChaosOnReach82]

So instead of shooting something and it just being a dud... Why not make it to explode on a timer instead of not exploding at all? If you stick it to someone itll still explode and you could stick it on a wall. If you have the prime version you can trap a choke point with sticky bombs and when someone walks through you just hit the detonator, uses the same built in mechanics that the prime varient and normal varient already have between controlled detonation and timed detonation, so why not?

[(XBOX)Rez090]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)ChaosOnReach82 said:

So instead of shooting something and it just being a dud... Why not make it to explode on a timer instead of not exploding at all? If you stick it to someone itll still explode and you could stick it on a wall. If you have the prime version you can trap a choke point with sticky bombs and when someone walks through you just hit the detonator, uses the same built in mechanics that the prime varient and normal varient already have between controlled detonation and timed detonation, so why not?

The normal variant does not operate the same as the prime variant. The prime has an alt-fire that must be manually detonated, the normal does not.

[MBaldelli]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)ChaosOnReach82 said:

If you stick it to someone itll still explode and you could stick it on a wall.

Am I a joke to you? 

I mean, we have self-harm/self-damage downgraded to self-stagger, this would mean the Penta should be something to have a re-look. 

[Andele3025]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)ChaosOnReach82 said:

So instead of shooting something and it just being a dud... Why not make it to explode on a timer instead of not exploding at all? If you stick it to someone itll still explode and you could stick it on a wall. If you have the prime version you can trap a choke point with sticky bombs and when someone walks through you just hit the detonator, uses the same built in mechanics that the prime varient and normal varient already have between controlled detonation and timed detonation, so why not?

It has a timer, its just quite the time it has to travel to get to that.
As for why it cant use Adhesive Blast is probably up to the same logic where non-aoe weapons can equip firerstorm, baza cant equip projectile speed, beam range mods arent exilus, etc.

[(XBOX)ChaosOnReach82]

On 2021-01-03 at 4:44 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

The normal variant does not operate the same as the prime variant. The prime has an alt-fire that must be manually detonated, the normal does not.

Yes i realize that, that is what i said in the post lol, normal version detonates on a timer while prime detonates on command that is i believe almost exactly what i said.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ChaosOnReach82 said:

 normal version detonates on a timer

Still not correct, the normal detonates with range, not on a timer. The range is 20 meters.

[deboo117]

On 2021-01-04 at 2:58 AM, (XBOX)ChaosOnReach82 said:

So instead of shooting something and it just being a dud... Why not make it to explode on a timer instead of not exploding at all? If you stick it to someone itll still explode and you could stick it on a wall. If you have the prime version you can trap a choke point with sticky bombs and when someone walks through you just hit the detonator, uses the same built in mechanics that the prime varient and normal varient already have between controlled detonation and timed detonation, so why not?

Alternatively the devs could make it behave like the Penta rounds if they want to reserve sticky bombs to the Adhesive Blast augment mod. Regardless, the secondary fire really needs a QoL fix.

[DoomFruit]

On 2021-01-05 at 5:11 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Still not correct, the normal detonates with range, not on a timer. The range is 20 meters.

No, it's a timer. Stick the projectile speed mod on and it goes 40% further before exploding. This also applies to Zephyr's Turbulence augment, which means that the alt-fire isn't usable when someone nearby has that active.

[Leqesai]

On 2021-01-03 at 1:44 PM, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

The normal variant does not operate the same as the prime variant. The prime has an alt-fire that must be manually detonated, the normal does not.

What... How could I not know this... I need to go back and check out the prime version. This is exactly the functionality I was hoping for the OG Corinth... 

Does the projectile have to be exploded in the air or can it be exploded after hitting a surface/enemy?

[Leqesai]

On 2021-02-21 at 5:50 AM, DoomFruit said:

No, it's a timer. Stick the projectile speed mod on and it goes 40% further before exploding. This also applies to Zephyr's Turbulence augment, which means that the alt-fire isn't usable when someone nearby has that active.

It is not a timer it is distance. Projectile speed affects the detonation distance but it is not on a timer.

The default distance is right around 20 meters. Projectile speed affects the distance it detonates. There is no detonation timer.

The way to think about how projectile speed affects the distance of detonation is very similar to how projectile speed affects the falloff values on hitscan weapons.

Projectile speed adjusts values associated with the equipped weapon. One of those values, in the case of the Corinth, is the distance needed for detonation. 

If the projectile travels at 10 meters per second. 2 seconds gives the 20m detonation.

If you double the flight speed it is going 20 meters per second, because it is flying twice as fast the detonation occurs at 40m. It takes the same amount of time to reach 40m as it does to reach 20m without the projectile speed mod.

 

 

[DoomFruit]

10 hours ago, Leqesai said:

It is not a timer it is distance. Projectile speed affects the detonation distance but it is not on a timer.

The default distance is right around 20 meters. Projectile speed affects the distance it detonates. There is no detonation timer.

The way to think about how projectile speed affects the distance of detonation is very similar to how projectile speed affects the falloff values on hitscan weapons.

Projectile speed adjusts values associated with the equipped weapon. One of those values, in the case of the Corinth, is the distance needed for detonation. 

If the projectile travels at 10 meters per second. 2 seconds gives the 20m detonation.

If you double the flight speed it is going 20 meters per second, because it is flying twice as fast the detonation occurs at 40m. It takes the same amount of time to reach 40m as it does to reach 20m without the projectile speed mod.

 

 

Which is exactly the same as saying that corinth bombs have a set lifetime and explode when that lifetime elapses.

The projectile goes at speed A, and detonates at B metres from launch - after having flown for C seconds. Stick on Fatal Acceleration, and it travels at a speed of 1.4xA and detonates after 1.4xY metres. Its lifespan does not change.

It's simple maths. Time = distance / speed. Time is unchanged. Distance is 1.4x original. Speed is 1.4x original.

From a programming perspective, it's much easier to code an if(time_alive > lifetime) then detonate() function, than it is to put in code which calculates its distance traveled. It's also much kinder on the simulation engine, as you don't need to work out distance, just check a monotonically increasing global variable against a fixed local variable.

[Leqesai]

44 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Which is exactly the same as saying that corinth bombs have a set lifetime and explode when that lifetime elapses.

The projectile goes at speed A, and detonates at B metres from launch - after having flown for C seconds. Stick on Fatal Acceleration, and it travels at a speed of 1.4xA and detonates after 1.4xY metres. Its lifespan does not change.

It's simple maths. Time = distance / speed. Time is unchanged. Distance is 1.4x original. Speed is 1.4x original.

From a programming perspective, it's much easier to code an if(time_alive > lifetime) then detonate() function, than it is to put in code which calculates its distance traveled. It's also much kinder on the simulation engine, as you don't need to work out distance, just check a monotonically increasing global variable against a fixed local variable.

The game uses projectile flight speed and flight distance as the language for understanding this. For some reason you seem to be arguing semantics on this topic.

It is just as valid to say Corinth explodes after X meters as it is to say Corinth explodes after X seconds (by your own logic, even). 

The thing is, the community uses X meters to describe Corinth's explosion. Largely because the game reference projectile SPEED not projectile flight TIME. The ingame references are distance-based not time based, so you're fighting an uphill battle if you're trying to convince people that the appropriate terminology is time instead of distance.

For reference, the wiki page that describes how the Corinth works also uses distance as the measurement for its explosive projectile.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Corinth

[DoomFruit]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

The game uses projectile flight speed and flight distance as the language for understanding this. For some reason you seem to be arguing semantics on this topic.

It is just as valid to say Corinth explodes after X meters as it is to say Corinth explodes after X seconds (by your own logic, even). 

The thing is, the community uses X meters to describe Corinth's explosion. Largely because the game reference projectile SPEED not projectile flight TIME. The ingame references are distance-based not time based, so you're fighting an uphill battle if you're trying to convince people that the appropriate terminology is time instead of distance.

For reference, the wiki page that describes how the Corinth works also uses distance as the measurement for its explosive projectile.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Corinth

The presented information to the player is in distance, since that's what's more useful to us.

The internal workings of the game are almost certainly in terms of time.

To detonate after a set flight time, all you need to store is the launch time. Then, each game tick, you do one addition and compare to the global game tick count. Better still, you calculate the expiry time once (at projectile spawning), store that and then do one compare every game tick.

To detonate after a set distance, you first need to modify the distance based on projectile speed - so that's one multiplication at the start. Then you need to store the launch position - another three variables to keep. Then, at each and every single game tick, you need to work out the distance travelled. That's three subtractions (x1-x2, y1-y2, z1-z2) followed by 3 multiplications, another addition and then a square root. The latter in particular is a very expensive computation to perform. And then when you're done, you do the comparison of distance travelled against maximum distance.

There is no reason why anyone would do the latter when the former is both easier to program and faster to calculate. If the game shows us detonation distance in the armoury UI, it's probably just doing one quick calculation there (a simple multiplication, speed x time).

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The presented information to the player is in distance, since that's what's more useful to us.

The internal workings of the game are almost certainly in terms of time.

To detonate after a set flight time, all you need to store is the launch time. Then, each game tick, you do one addition and compare to the global game tick count. Better still, you calculate the expiry time once (at projectile spawning), store that and then do one compare every game tick.

To detonate after a set distance, you first need to modify the distance based on projectile speed - so that's one multiplication at the start. Then you need to store the launch position - another three variables to keep. Then, at each and every single game tick, you need to work out the distance travelled. That's three subtractions (x1-x2, y1-y2, z1-z2) followed by 3 multiplications, another addition and then a square root. The latter in particular is a very expensive computation to perform. And then when you're done, you do the comparison of distance travelled against maximum distance.

There is no reason why anyone would do the latter when the former is both easier to program and faster to calculate. If the game shows us detonation distance in the armoury UI, it's probably just doing one quick calculation there (a simple multiplication, speed x time).

I am not saying you are wrong in how you understand the programming side of things. But you are certainly wrong with presenting an argument that is based on programming when the information given to the player is different. It makes people confused and argumentative.

[Andele3025]

14 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I am not saying you are wrong in how you understand the programming side of things. But you are certainly wrong with presenting an argument that is based on programming when the information given to the player is different. It makes people confused and argumentative.

But it is a timer. And Ivara Navigator for a while not pausing resulting in corinth suicides did very much make the difference very relevant (as to/did projectile slows and pauses).

[fr4gb4ll]

stick bombs into the wheels!  ...oh, sorry wrong game...

anyway, that brings two thoughts on my end:

first, we have several weapons already that have such behaviour (or can be modded to behave like that) and...

second, why don't we have grenades when most of our enemies can throw them at us? we aren't even allowed to thrown them appels right back at them and that with all the time we have to run away (well, mostly just ignoring them, really - at least in low-level condition... in high-level, not so much). not that i think we even need thrown explosive beyond those secondary ones we have (all not really 'nade-like but more claymore/mine types).

ok, some frames have them, so i guess DE get out of this... a bit half arsed though...

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2021-02-26 at 11:23 PM, fr4gb4ll said:

second, why don't we have grenades when most of our enemies can throw them at us?

Castanas and Talons not good enough for you?