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Having played for a few months and then starting a new account on PS4 to play with friends, I have to say that the Spy missions' difficulty are completely dependent on familiarity with the vaults and not at all on invisibility.  In order to make the vaults difficult again, DE would have to randomize a lot more things in the vaults, which may end up with the same vault being anywhere between trivial to impossible, depending on luck.  I do not necessarily think that would be a bad thing, although there is bound to be backlash.

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11 hours ago, (NSW)Symberzite said:

Is it possible to overhaul those missions to have a minimum level of challenge without nerfing all the tools that DE gave us over the years?  

short answer: no.

long answer: no, because as you said yourself, puzzles like Lua are not appreciated by everyone. I'd be fine with more challenging vaults, but only if the rewards are also appropriate to the amount of effort. an "endgame" Spy Mission -if you could call it that- should feel like a heist, where there are really high stakes and getting discovered means having to change tactics completely and deal with a lot more resistance. trip a laser and you should get mobbed by Ambulas/Jackals/other tough enemies. at the same time, the vaults should contain somewhat substantial rewards: Kuva, multiple relics, Index-level credit payouts, ultra-Endorific Ayatans, whatever.

give us mission impossible; warframe edition!

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7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I'm guessing that nobody wants to hear this, but there's a pretty simple solution.  If you want to be challenged by missions, stop using tools that trivialize those missions.  Play your stealth missions with Excalibur and you'll have a more enjoyable time.

Every mission type has Warframes that trivialize it, and if you want to go super meta, yeah, Warframe is a game that can quite simply be crushed with proper preparation.  Spy is no different.

Best answer imo.

You make it challenging in your own game your own way if you start to want to change one mode type you'll want all of them changed, so instead try thinking up ways to make it different experience for yourself.

Example: Doing spy missions with just your operator, I've done that quite a lot, I find it fun.

Theirs more but I just woke up after a heavy night so can't think of more at the moment.

 

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You want challenge? Do all spy missions with Rhino and your only weapon is a Bramma. Have fun.

Also, anyone thinking Ivara is too slow because of Prowl? Equip all speed mods and just jump and roll through the level. You'll be going as fast as if you bullet jumped your way through the level.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

 

Best answer imo.

You make it challenging in your own game your own way if you start to want to change one mode type you'll want all of them changed, so instead try thinking up ways to make it different experience for yourself.

Example: Doing spy missions with just your operator, I've done that quite a lot, I find it fun.

Theirs more but I just woke up after a heavy night so can't think of more at the moment.

 

One of the rules of game design is that players want to optimize whatever gameplay loop they are going through. If you want to go down that route, you can play through the levels with your hands submerged in icy water or by playing a round of russian roulette every five minutes. Personally, I think it's possible to have a fun spy mission without throwing away all of the mechanics by just focusing on different gameplay aspects. 

Edited by (NSW)Symberzite
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Well, first and foremost, turn off invicibility in spy vaults. Until that happens, anything else is pointless. I've never used warframes that have invisibility, and i've never used a silent weapons, so it's not like there is much challenge to begin with, but as long as the option exists, any attempt is just doomed to fail.

Edited by (PSN)Yggranya
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On 2021-03-03 at 5:03 AM, (NSW)Symberzite said:

Is it possible to overhaul those missions to have a minimum level of challenge without nerfing all the tools that DE gave us over the years?  

The simplest answer to your question is "no".  You won't get Spy levels that challenge you even when you're using Ivara, and the reason why is that all of these Spy levels need to be able to be completed in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable amount of effort by any Warframe.  Ivara's toolset is based around making the kinds of challenges a Spy mission offers less challenging.  In other words, there's no way to make a level challenging for Ivara without making it very challenging for Excalibur.  And that's not the game DE is making, nor is it the game most players are playing.

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