Are slash and elemental effects supposed to be small on secondaries?

[reznho]

When I'm building secondary guns, it sometimes gets hard for me to decide whether I should build corrosive or viral+slash. I noticed that most secondary guns will have a low IPS number unlike primary guns, specifically for slash. For example, the aksomati prime has a base slash of 10.0. I can do some modding and get that slash rating to approximately 32 or higher. Is a slash rating of 10, or even 32 or above considered a high rating of slash for secondaries? If not, what number is considered so? 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Depends on the enemy it's not automatically better. 

For the ones that matter, its better.

The others will die easily anyway, so I don't bother building for them.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

For the ones that matter, its better.

The others will die easily anyway, so I don't bother building for them.

which ones pray tell do you think matter?

[chaotea]

3 hours ago, reznho said:

When I'm building secondary guns, it sometimes gets hard for me to decide whether I should build corrosive or viral+slash. I noticed that most secondary guns will have a low IPS number unlike primary guns, specifically for slash. For example, the aksomati prime has a base slash of 10.0. I can do some modding and get that slash rating to approximately 32 or higher. Is a slash rating of 10, or even 32 or above considered a high rating of slash for secondaries? If not, what number is considered so? 

Its hard to say. Understandably secondarys tend to have lower DPS than primarys, but with so many weapons out there, its hard to say whats high. After all some very strong weapons have low damage but high fire rates or large status or crit multipliers, or high multishot, or some other mechanic like AoE or punch through.

Generally modding is split into one of 3 focuses.

1) Pure Damage, You put on as much damage as you can. Mostly the refuge of new players, where damage types arnt quite so important in early levels compared to raw damage.

In this case you want to look to what damage the weapon has as base, though its different depending on if its IPS or Elemental. IPS mods only improve the stat they contain. So a +60% Slash damage mod would only improve the damage of slash already on the weapon by 60%, but would ignore any impact or puncture values. Elemental mods however scale of the total damage, so all the IPS and any other base elements the weapon has combined. In this manner its often best to focus on elemental mods for pure damage builds, unless your weapon has most or all of its damage in a single IPS element.

2) Critical Damage, High chance of multiplier damage. A good fit for mid game, where enemies are getting harder, but youre getting used to how the game works.

While the main focus here is on getting up your critical damage or critical chance, its good to also get some damage in, as all damage is multiplied on a critical hit. Some rules for raw damage apply, though Slash is the prefered element, as if you do proc a slash status effect it will do damage based on the damage of the hit that spawned it.

3) Status, High status effect chance and complimentary elements. Many gravitate towards this in the mid- late game, as enemies often have high armor or sheilds, and elements can help bypass that hurdle.

For the most part damage goes out the window. The interest is on getting the status chance as high as you can. Still, when a weapon that has multiple elements procs a status, it has a higher chance of proccing the higher an elements damage is. Good combos are: Corrosive + Slash, as corrosive will strip enemies of armour then the slash will damage the weakend health, good vs grineer. Viral and fire, as viral will make the enemy take more damage, and fire will deal damage over time (not as much as slash) and weaken armour (not as much as corrosive), good all round and agains harder enemies. Magnetic and poison, as magnetic will knock out sheilds and poison will do damage that bypasses sheilds. good vs corpus. These are just examples of course, alot of people do diferent elements as it really depends on the weapon and personal preference and playstyle.

Anyway, hope that helps give some insight when your looking at your weapons damage potential. End game players tend to blend all 3 of these to create a deadly playstyle.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I'm not religious, so I'm not familiar with the meaning of "pray tell"

but whatever it is, religion probably isn't a relevant topic for warframe.

Pretty sure you knew exactly what I meant and are avoiding the question by trying to appear clever. You're not appearing clever btw.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Pretty sure you knew exactly what I meant and are avoiding the question by trying to appear clever. 

No I honestly don't know the entymology of the phrase. I've heard people use it, but I don't know what it actually means. I think it has some kind of ?sarcasm? associations, but I don't know why or the background for it. what does praying have to do with sarcasm? english language has all kinds of weird sayings that don't make any logical sense to me. I'm guessing its an abbreviation of a longer saying? and it got shortened with usage because it was assumed everyone had the background?

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

No I honestly don't know the entymology of the phrase. I've heard people use it, but I don't actually know what it actually means. I think it has some kind of ?sarcasm? associations, but I don't know why or the background for it. what does praying have to do with sarcasm? english language has all kinds of weird sayings that don't make any logical sense to me. I'm guessing its an abbreviation of a longer saying?

 

Very well. It merely means "if you would be so kind as to tell me". So what I asked is "Would you be so kind as to tell me which enemies you think matter?" Using Pray is merely a different word for "Please".

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

50% of the aksomati prime's damage is dealt as slash, so if building for status this means that when the weapon procs a status effect it will be slash 50% of the time.
Now be aware that adding elements will change this, but generally speaking the percentage of the total damage that any specific damage type makes up will be the percentage chance that any given status proc will be that element

19 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Neither

build for Viral + Heat.

 

Corrosive, will remove up to 80% Armor if you stack it 10 times.

Yet Heat, will instantly remove 50% Armor with just 1 status proc.

Meanwhile, Viral Triples damage taken at 10 stacks.

 

Seeing as how Viral and Corrosive are mutually exclusive on most weapons.

Viral + Heat is the better choice over Corrosive.

It's also more reliable than Viral + Slash, since your Elementals are going to usually have heavier weightings than the IPS.

Tho Viral+Heat + Slash is nice if you can manage to fit it. but Slash should be a lower priority vs the former two.

A few inaccuracies here:
Heat will ramp up to 50% armour reduction over 2 seconds, not instantly
Viral actually ramps up to +325% damage against health, for a total of a little over 4x

When it comes to viral and slash you need to take into account the fact that slash's bleed procs will ignore armour, so if the weapon in question has sufficient slash damage it is most certainly more beneficial to have viral + slash as your two main proccers

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

17 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Very well. It merely means "if you would be so kind as to tell me". So what I asked is "Would you be so kind as to tell me which enemies you think matter?"

huh

oh ok then. that's weird how that works. I prefer the clarified phrasing, sounds way less pretentious.

 

Anyhow, I mainly focus on using that combo against Grineer and Infested

while I'm aware that corrosive can be more useful vs some infested, viral+heat works OK Enough that I just can't be bothered swapping my mods around.

I also know that it doesn't do a thing vs shielded Corpus, but really outside of the sortie modifier for shields that doesn't seem to be a problem in practice, corpus aren't that big of a threat.

 

Noted that I only play the normal starchart stuff, and I have no inclination to pull up an excel spreadsheet and minimax for Endless Steel Path, that's too much like work. I just like viral+heat as a good casual combo that works pretty well in general.

 

This may very well break down at different levels of scaling, but that's not really relevant to what I play, or what OP plays I suspect.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

huh

oh ok then. that's weird how that works. I prefer the clarified phrasing, sounds way less pretentious.

 

Anyhow, I mainly focus on using that combo against Grineer and Infested

while I'm aware that corrosive can be more useful vs some infested, viral+heat works OK Enough that I just can't be bothered swapping my mods around.

I also know that it doesn't do a thing vs shielded Corpus, but really outside of the sortie modifier for shields that doesn't seem to be a problem in practice, corpus aren't that big of a threat.

 

Noted that I only play the normal starchart stuff, and I have no inclination to pull up an excel spreadsheet and minimax for Endless Steel Path, that's too much like work. I just like viral+heat as a good casual combo that works pretty well in general.

 

Ok I expected the answer of Grineer. Thing is, most of the time, you're going to have better results with a crit/slash weapon that has a Viral munitions build on it instead of Viral + heat. By the time Viral and heat is more effective you're talking enemies of a few hundred levels and then it's the point where you use a melee weapon instead and simply ignore the armour. As for corpus, modding for pure toxin makes them a joke as it completely ignores their shields. The few chunky armoured enemies like say Heavy gunners, Bombards and Nox's however, you're going to be more effective with Viral Munitions. Infested I'm sure you'll agree are pretty weak save the armoured ones and corrosive + heat actually does better vs them than viral + heat will.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Well, there's my problem

I don't melee

Just can't stand it, being locked up in animations and whatnot.

So I don't

I'm well aware that's gimping me; and I generally need to run Carrier and multiple ammo mutations given the number of clips I waste at higher levels. But hey, not gonna play it if it doesn't feel fun.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Well, there's my problem

I don't melee

Just can't stand it, being locked up in animations and whatnot.

So I don't

I'm well aware that's gimping me; and I generally need to run Carrier and multiple ammo mutations given the number of clips I waste at higher levels. But hey, not gonna play it if it doesn't feel fun.

Understandable, you have to play the way that allows you to have fun.