Glaives - Balanced by Bugs

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, nslay said:

Glaives may be bugged and silly... but, despite the massive armor stripping and Viral procs from Catabolyst, I'm not getting any kind of good sense that the Cerata will one-shot level 10000 Steel Path Corpus enemies. Can it one shot some kinds of level 10000 Steel Path Corpus enemies? Probably... Will it one-shot level 10000 Steel Path Bursas or even something like Oxium Ospreys? Probably not... Apparently not even if you strip 90% of the armor! Though 10% of inflated values of armor is not insignificant... maybe if you strip all the armor with an ability or Shattering Impact (though apparently Shattering Impact reportedly doesn't work with Glaive throws despite many Glaives guaranteeing an Impact proc).

In case you missed it:

On 2021-05-28 at 12:30 PM, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I will concede this point as my figures where based on the (logical) assumption that Index Brokers follow the same scaling as the rest of the game.
However, they still use the pre-U27.2 scaling, so they have massively more EHP than expected. Your level 350 Brokers have 1,828,015 raw health and 7095 armor, for an EHP of 45,060,569, about 34x what it "should" be.

Steel Path Index doesn't have the shield or health modifiers either. They only get the armor modifier and the increased levels.
 

5 hours ago, nslay said:

But yeah... these are just level 300 Steel Path enemies... not even close to level 10000 and they're kind of sluggish to kill with Cerata after armor stripping (particularly Auditor and Raptor).

And they don't represent the rest of the Corpus in the slightest as they have far more EHP than most of the Corpus lineup.

SP lvl9999 Techs have 1,878,543 EHP from health. A lvl130 SP Index Broker should have 250,615 health and 3820 armor, for a health EHP of ~3,441,779. So if you can oneshot them you should be good to level cap for "normal" Corpus. On to armored Corpus.

SP Oxium Ospreys have 271,061,790 EHP. A single cast of Fireblast brings it down to 69,275,746 EHP, or you can just use Viral to similar effect. Better yet you can combine them. That's a doable damage number with Chroma if you allow a few proc ticks.
Bursas are gonna give you trouble, but you can just avoid triggering them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would like to point out that it was never claimed that Cerata would oneshot all Corpus.


 

[Traumtulpe]

On 2021-05-27 at 6:36 PM, nslay said:

So how do you manage to one shot level 10000 enemies?

I throw the glaive and press the heavy attack button.

 

[nslay]

44 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I throw the glaive and press the heavy attack button.

 

That's really amazing. Thank you for spending the time to reach these levels and show us.

So I take it you still needed those viral procs or was it something you didn't remember to test?

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

So I take it you still needed those viral procs or was it something you didn't remember to test?

No, I did test it and a heavy gunner does die from one attack, but it takes a bit with an orange crit. I have about 200% status duration, by the way...

[nslay]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, I did test it and a heavy gunner does die from one attack, but it takes a bit with an orange crit. I have about 200% status duration, by the way...

No, the Heavy Gunner still has a Viral proc on her too. It's not clear how many, but it's there.

Look, it doesn't matter how many Viral procs she has. It's a fraction of a second to put 10 Viral procs on an enemy with a Kuva Nukor or something like that anyway... I was just curious since you had written that you could maybe one shot enemies without Viral.

And this is definitely an easier time than my Steel Path John Prodman run where I have to wait several seconds with several throws for Auditor or Raptor to die.

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, nslay said:

No, the Heavy Gunner still has a Viral proc on her too. It's not clear how many, but it's there.

That's not what I am talking about, I did test the glaive on a heavy gunner that was only affected by Spores, I was still buffed with Toxic Lash though, she died after 10 seconds. However, that was an orange crit, so sometimes she would die in 5 seconds.

The contribution of Spores and Toxic Lash should be negligible, they only deal relevant damage with both viral and heat procs present.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

10 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

That's not what I am talking about, I did test the glaive on a heavy gunner that was only affected by Spores, I was still buffed with Toxic Lash though, she died after 10 seconds. However, that was an orange crit, so sometimes she would die in 5 seconds.

The contribution of Spores and Toxic Lash should be negligible, they only deal relevant damage with both viral and heat procs present.

The contributions of spores and toxin lash are not at all negligible. Spores likely would’ve applied multiples corrosive procs, taking anywhere from 18% of the targets armour to over 50% or higher, and toxic lash is like adding a whole extra primed elemental mod onto your build. Both of these things are MULTIPLYING the end damage by a substantial amount.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

The contributions of spores and toxin lash are not at all negligible. Spores likely would’ve applied multiples corrosive procs, taking anywhere from 18% of the targets armour to over 50% or higher, and toxic lash is like adding a whole extra primed elemental mod onto your build. Both of these things are MULTIPLYING the end damage by a substantial amount.

You have no clue what you are talking about, these are level 9999 Steel Path heavy gunners - you see that Spore counter? It says 100k. Doesn't even scratch them at all without both viral and heat.

The only noticable damage in the test comes from the glaives slash proc, you can even see in the video that direct hits (with viral and heat!) do pretty much no damage.

I haven't done the math, but they probably have ~98%-99% damage reduction after 10 corrosive procs.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

You have no clue what you are talking about, these are level 9999 Steel Path heavy gunners - you see that Spore counter? It says 100k. Doesn't even scratch them at all without both viral and heat.

The only noticable damage in the test comes from the glaives slash proc, you can even see in the video that direct hits (with viral and heat!) do pretty much no damage.

I haven't done the math, but they probably have ~98%-99% damage reduction after 10 corrosive procs.

I would suggest that you do the math, because the higher the enemy scales, the more a single corrosive proc is worth.

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

I would suggest that you do the math, because the higher the enemy scales, the more a single corrosive proc is worth.

No, I'm sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. At all.

Against a level 9999 Steel Path heavy gunner, a single corrosive proc is worth exactly nothing. It makes exactly no difference. If you cannot understand this, there is no point in even talking to you any further.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

8 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

No, I'm sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. At all.

Against a level 9999 Steel Path heavy gunner, a single corrosive proc is worth exactly nothing. It makes exactly no difference. If you cannot understand this, there is no point in even talking to you any further.

Have you tried getting mad?

When you reduce a bigger number by 18%, it’s worth more than if you reduce a smaller number by 18%

[Traumtulpe]

40 minutes ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

When you reduce a bigger number by 18%, it’s worth more than if you reduce a smaller number by 18%

When the damage reduction goes from 99.9999% to 99.999%, there still is no point in attacking the enemy with affected damage types. You can stop now.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

31 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

When the damage reduction goes from 99.9999% to 99.999%, there still is no point in attacking the enemy with affected damage types. You can stop now.

That, is simply not how maths works.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2021-05-28 at 6:10 PM, Tiltskillet said:

I did a similar test and I am getting increased damage numbers with cold-rad-puncture priming on regular throws.

You probably made a mistake somewhere. Look at this video, it doesn't get much more obvious than that: CO has no effect whatsoever.

 

[Tiltskillet]

41 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You probably made a mistake somewhere. Look at this video, it doesn't get much more obvious than that: CO has no effect whatsoever.

That's a heavy attack manual detonation, isn't it?   I didn't look at those and maybe it's specific to that.   I'll look again when I have some time.

I still have my test configs and I'm not seeing what mistake I could have made.  But I was just looking at charged throws.

 

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

That, is simply not how maths works.

No, its how the game works.

[nslay]

57 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That's a heavy attack manual detonation, isn't it?   I didn't look at those and maybe it's specific to that.   I'll look again when I have some time.

I still have my test configs and I'm not seeing what mistake I could have made.  But I was just looking at charged throws.

 

It really doesn’t do anything. Without looking at numbers, performance against Steel Path Auditor was the same between no mod and Condition Overload. 

In fact, you really don’t need Primed Pressure Point since I was using Condition Overload in endurance runs and it was basically an empty slot! Though I have Killing Blow and Arcane Fury.

If you want game breaking, look at Power Throw. That’s multiplicative and the indicator stacks to 4 (and not 3). It does add a high skill ceiling to Glaives though! Very very hard to use... requires a lot of coordination between heavy attack and pressing melee button as you catch the Glaive (holding it down or pressing too early breaks the buff). Positioning is important too!

Power Throw is probably the best choice over Primed Pressure Point if you’re using Killing Blow and Arcane Fury. But it’s so silly... you don’t need 4x overall damage!

[Traumtulpe]

8 minutes ago, nslay said:

Very very hard to use... requires a lot of coordination between heavy attack and pressing melee button as you catch the Glaive (holding it down or pressing too early breaks the buff).

I find it very easy to use with the Pathocyst, because of it's slow flight speed. Holding the button down works just fine for me, if done early enough. Sometimes the glaive does not throw at all when holding the button, it seems that there are 2 re-throw mechanics (tap with timing, or hold) that interfere with each other.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2021-06-03 at 3:59 PM, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

That, is simply not how maths works.

I looked at the numbers again, and did the math for you:

After reducing the heavy gunners armor by 95% (10 corrosive procs, and corrosive's innate 75% armor bypass against Ferrite), she still has 98.8% damage reduction.

You read that right, only 5% of her armor is enough do make you deal 1.2% damage.

[Traumtulpe]

Well, another half year has passed, and to my surprise (not really) all the bugs are still there. Even those I didn't mention, like glaives having inconsistent flight speed when not hosting, and the re-throw animation being bugged while on the ground (causing a stutter that impairs movement and looks bad).

You'd think if a mod simply does nothing, DE would do something about that after a couple of years. You'd think, if a weapon type randomly and for no reason loses all combo and thus simply cannot make use of the combo system, they'd care about that. You'd think, if a bug makes a weapon deal 10x as much damage as it is supposed to, they'd fix it sooner rather than later.

Apparently not.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Apparently not.

That's Warframe For Ya.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯