Helminth Grows a New Appetite: 30.5 Update!

[-XBlocK]

Invigorations are a horrible mechanic, as many have mentioned before.

Random buffs to random warframes will not level the playtime between warframes or incentivize using dust-collecting warframes, it will only lead to people seeking high bonuses for meta warframes (aka powercreep) and could possibly ruin the entire balance of the game. When we got the armor and enemy scaling rebalance the maximum thresholds for warframe stats were barely above 230% in most cases, and now we see that 230% value possibly double. I really dont think this is healthy for the game and i suggest removing invigorations before people get too used to them and invest more than can be refunded.

If the goal was to get people using non-meta warframes, invigorations could’ve been mini-booster type bonuses (say a 33% drop chance increase or 50% chance to double resources etc) or even fun peculiar effects or stats which are not as game-impacting (such as sprint speed increases or jump height bonuses) ((this would need to be disabled in dojos bc obstacle courses))

Really hope to see something done about the system, cheers.

 

[Nox-Inruptio]

On 2021-06-18 at 7:56 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

INTRODUCING: INVIGORATIONS
Here’s how it will work:
 

Every week, your Helminth will have an Affinity toward 3 Random Warframes. You can interact with Helminth with these Warframes to gain select Weekly Buffs (one Offensive and one Utility/Defense)! For example:

 

Zephyr: 200% Power Strength and Immune To Status
Atlas: 200% Primary Critical Chance and +1000 Armor
Excalibur: 250% Melee Damage and 75% power Efficiency

 

These will be drawn randomly per player. Tenno can check their Helminth during the Weekly reset to see what Invigorations are available for the week. Once you infuse the Invigoration, it lasts the week before the power of the Helminth wears off. 

To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff! 

 

As of now, the Segment will cost 30,000 Entrati Standing and will be available once you hit the rank of Family. Get your Family tokens ready, Tenno! 

"To give players some control over what will be very powerful buffs, the Helminth takes note of your interactions - for every 10 Invigorations you do, you’ll be able to Select what Warframe receives the next buff!"

This was not made clear during Tenno con, rather the impression I was left with was that after meeting a required 10 invigorations, I would be able to choose 1 of the 3 buffs to give an equipped warframe each week, which as of to today, using my 10th on one of the pre-selected warframe - and careful reading of this is clearly not the case.  A strong enough impression that I thought I there was a bug when I was getting the message of an incompatible frame after my 10th invigoration, as did my daughter in law, and wife (we all play and all attended Tenno con).

1 choice every 4ish weeks is rather large let down from that, especially after making a choice between 2 buffs that would have been really great to play with for a week on frames I'm very fond of.  I do like the system, I just wish this had been presented in crystal clarity to avoid any possibility of miscommunication.

EDIT:

Figured out the override button: allowing even already used buffs to be applied to the equipped warframe.  Also noted that progress toward the next override is not counted until the currently available override is "consumed".

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

On 2021-07-29 at 8:11 PM, -XBlocK said:

Invigorations are a horrible mechanic, as many have mentioned before.

Random buffs to random warframes will not level the playtime between warframes or incentivize using dust-collecting warframes, it will only lead to people seeking high bonuses for meta warframes (aka powercreep) and could possibly ruin the entire balance of the game. When we got the armor and enemy scaling rebalance the maximum thresholds for warframe stats were barely above 230% in most cases, and now we see that 230% value possibly double. I really dont think this is healthy for the game and i suggest removing invigorations before people get too used to them and invest more than can be refunded.

If the goal was to get people using non-meta warframes, invigorations could’ve been mini-booster type bonuses (say a 33% drop chance increase or 50% chance to double resources etc) or even fun peculiar effects or stats which are not as game-impacting (such as sprint speed increases or jump height bonuses) ((this would need to be disabled in dojos bc obstacle courses))

Really hope to see something done about the system, cheers.

 

Invest more than can be refunded? We don't need those resources. We wanted the helminth to get rid of resources, as we're not using them otherwise.

[iHeuksal]

On 2021-06-20 at 6:34 PM, -CM-Darkvamper said:

If you skim through this thread, you'll find a bunch of people worrying about elitism surrounding Eidolons and other content. Approaching the buffing system like this would increase such elitism as you could just only subsume 3 frames, and guarantee your invigoration rolls.

As for it not making sense, we have a Valkyr Prime with exactly the same abilities, and we're probably getting a Nidus Prime next. Lore consistency is really not DE's strong point.

Totally right. Making an approach for "only subsumed frames should be buffable" is just wrong.

It is not even a thing which is going to happen soon, it is already happening on some tridolon and orb hunts. This is kinda sad.

[-XBlocK]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Invest more than can be refunded? We don't need those resources. We wanted the helminth to get rid of resources, as we're not using them otherwise.

my point was if the system was to be removed, people would definitely get mad because they would’ve lost their resource investment (even if it was insignificant to them) out of priciple

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

49 minutes ago, -XBlocK said:

my point was if the system was to be removed, people would definitely get mad because they would’ve lost their resource investment (even if it was insignificant to them) out of priciple

It won't and shouldn't be removed anyway so it's fine.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2021-06-23 at 6:20 PM, Kilo24 said:

I think the Invigorations system is not going to achieve its goal of encouraging interest in underused frames.  Spending resources to temporarily buff frames you're not interested in in the first place is a hard sell, and these boosts will likely benefit fully ranked/forma-ed frames more strongly than underplayed ones.  Powers need a high rank warframe to be useful, and while the weapon buffs are less warframe-dependent they also don't do all that much to sell the player on the warframe itself instead of the buff.

Moreover, the sheer power of the buffs being thrown around is not trivial.  It's like a riven mod for warframes that - instead of doing the work of perhaps 2 or 3 mods and costing ~1.5 times as a normal mod does in capacity - does around 7-8 without any capacity or slot cost, is randomly acquired, and vanishes after a week.  It's even a big enough boost that it might turn the warframe du jour into an interchangeable buff vessel, with a helminth ability and warframe-agnostic build slapped on it to take advantage of the buff.  The sheer power being thrown around here overwhelms much of the other systems in the game, and does so based on luck and a limited duration.  It will turn the meta of any mode it's part of into a matter of luck and grinding out 10th-infusion choices, and in doing so would significantly reduce the appeal of attaining what would be a meta build without this system. 

Now, what might be an interesting alternative is some system that targets experimenting and leveling up underused frames specifically, and has little effect on the power level of frames that the player has already heavily invested in.  If infusion instead applied a temporary removal of the mod capacity limits on the infused frame, that would let a player freely experiment with the frame without expending forma but not be a major benefit to a frame that you've already maxed out.  There could also be other benefits to encourage leveling, like that frame earning double affinity, or having the first forma you apply to it be free, or making any further helminth ability switches free.  You could also receive a significant boost in a mode that's already designed for such boosts: say, arbitrations would always give their +power benefits to an infused frame, and/or void fissures would always give the reactant buff to the frame in addition to a random weapon.  That would encourage players to try underused frames, but have a limited effect on others.

First time noticing this thread was in a unique section of the forums. I just thought they were posted and remove within a few weeks lol. I've been missing out for a long time

 

I do like the direction this idea is going. Especially with boosters. That sounds magnificent, I seen another player say make resource boosters part of the buff for invigorated warframes, and being the Steel essence/kuva junky that I currently am nowadays, this particular idea sounds brilliant 👏 

I can see my least favorite frame (Hydroid) becoming extremely enticing to use. Would be challenging in Steel Path but a 50%-75% resource booster would make it so worth it

Sad to see these ideas weren't added. They'd have been magnificent additions. I still hope for the future