Helminth Empower math check

[FadeToNull]

From the wiki...

Quote

Expend 25 Energy to increase the Ability Strength of your next ability cast, granting it a 20% / 30% / 40% / 50% additive Ability Strength bonus

If my modded power strength is 200 and I cast Empower, my next cast will be at...

200 + (200 * 0.5) == 300 power strength

Is that correct?

[L3512]

12 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Right. This is why I clarified. Look at the original post, my dude.

The guy is asking if empowered adds 50% of the modified value. In their example they ask if it means 200% sheet strength becomes 300% after using empower (200+50% of 200). 

From my understanding their math is correct but they are using 200 power strength not 100 which every mod is based off.

If the math works like their assumption a blind rage, transient fortitude, intensify, empower build would be around 600 power strength.

100+99%+55%+30%+50%  = 601.47

Instead it is

100+ (100x0.99)+(100x0.55)+(100x0.30)+(100x0.5) = 334

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

100+99%+55%+30%+50%  = 601.47

Type that into a calculator and tell me what you get. If you get 600, your calculator is very broken.

[L3512]

56 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

Type that into a calculator and tell me what you get. If you get 600, your calculator is very broken.

Did you try your own advice?

As written.

100+99% = 199

199+55% = 308.45

308.45+30% = 400.98

400.95+50% = 601.47

Or if you prefer

100 x (1.99 x 1.55 x 1.3 x 1.5) = 601.47

Which IS multiplicative and how I thought the OP thought power strength worked.  

In hindsight I think they asked is it a final multiplier,

IE  100+(100x0.99)+(100x0.55)+(100x0.30)= 284

284 + (284 X 0.5) = 426 power strength.

[Leqesai]

53 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Did you try your own advice?

As written.

100+99% = 199

199+55% = 308.45

308.45+30% = 400.98

400.95+50% = 601.47

Or if you prefer

100 x (1.99 x 1.55 x 1.3 x 1.5) = 601.47

Which IS multiplicative and how I thought the OP thought power strength worked.  

In hindsight I think they asked is it a final multiplier,

IE  100+(100x0.99)+(100x0.55)+(100x0.30)= 284

284 + (284 X 0.5) = 426 power strength.

I am not sure why this is confusing to you guys.

Empower adds a flat 50%. If you have base power strength of 100 this means you get a total of 150.

If you use blind rage for a subtotal of 199 you get a final amount of 249. It just adds 50% to whatever the amount you have. As was explained in both of my responses. The numbers you are using are completely incorrect because empower is a flat, additive bonus.

Empower always adds 50% just like energy conversion.

[Leqesai]

14 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

This....

At first I thought it was dumb but it's pretty good I just wish the Animation was more Mobile.... You can't cast it while Running...

 

I agree.

With specific builds it is a really useful ability. It is how I am able to pull high range + nearly max slow with sevagoth.

[L3512]

10 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I am not sure why this is confusing to you guys.

Empower adds a flat 50%. If you have base power strength of 100 this means you get a total of 150.

If you use blind rage for a subtotal of 199 you get a final amount of 249. It just adds 50% to whatever the amount you have. As was explained in both of my responses. The numbers you are using are completely incorrect because empower is a flat, additive bonus.

Empower always adds 50% just like energy conversion.

Yeah I made a mistake trying to understand why the OP was using 200.  All the strength mods and empower are additive like I said in first post.

blind rage, transient fortitude, intensify, empower build

100+ (100x0.99)+(100x0.55)+(100x0.30)+(100x0.5) = 334

3 minutes ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

199+55= 254

1.99×1.55=3.0845

Right

Right

But wrong because you quoted my "199+55% = 308.45"

Which is very clearly 199+(199x0.55) so that does equal = 308.45

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

2 minutes ago, L3512 said:

But wrong because you quoted my "199+55% = 308.45"

199 already is a percent. 199%+55% = 254% 

OP's math was clearly multiplicative. 

The only way to get 308 from 199+55 is if you actually write the math correctly, which is 1.99×1.55 which is clearly multiplicative. You need to write the percentages as decimals. You would fail math using your notation.

[L3512]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

100 x (1.99 x 1.55 x 1.3 x 1.5) = 601.47

Which IS multiplicative

@(PSN)iuvenilis

Here is one I prepared earlier.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

Yeah I made a mistake trying to understand why the OP was using 200.  All the strength mods and empower are additive like I said in first post.

blind rage, transient fortitude, intensify, empower build

100+ (100x0.99)+(100x0.55)+(100x0.30)+(100x0.5) = 334

This is a funny way of doing the math imo...

Why not just say 1+.99+.55+.3+.5=3.34 (334%)?

I am a database engineer and your method to get to the answer has lots of extra, unnecessary steps... just build everything off a ratio of 1 instead of 100 then multiply the whole thing by 100 to get the %.

[LillyRaccune]

3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

has lots of extra, unnecessary steps...

This. Those extra, unnecessary steps are extra-unnecessary

7 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

additive Ability Strength bonus

Key word: additive.

I think part of the problem lies with DE swapping between what stats are multiplicative or additive or "added to base stats before mods" or "scales off of". So I can understand where some of the confusion comes from. Some details about the discrete mathematics are only found on the wiki, further hindering transparency.

But for the sake of the OP: it means 50 extra strength will be added to your next ability cast. So if you have 100% Str, it becomes 150%. If you have 300% Str, it becomes 350%.

I wish there was magic multiplying and exponentially explosive numbers happening, but there aren't. Warframe might be a power/fantasy game, but as for being SUPER POWERED... well, I'm afraid that is purely a fantasy.

[shut]

6 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Right. This is why I clarified. Look at the original post, my dude.

The guy is asking if empower adds 50% of the modified value. In their example they ask if it means 200% sheet strength becomes 300% after using empower (200+50% of 200). 

Also... what do you mean "They're both additive" Both of what? The only thing I referenced was the ability in question. What is the other thing that makes "both" in your response?

Oh. Oh my god. For some reason I thought you were correcting the first commenter (whose explanation was correct) instead of the OP.

My bad 😆

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I like how this was definitively answered in the first post and has devolved into people arguing about how basic math works.

[L3512]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Why not just say 1+.99+.55+.3+.5=3.34 (334%)?

To me these mods are simply 99, 55, 30 and 50 with a base power level of 100, pretty easy math because the base is 100.

I guess it's to work with random numbers?

IE 67

67+ (67x0.99)+(67x0.55)+(67x0.30)+(67x0.5) = 223.78 

Which I think is a pretty easy concept for people to understand.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

just build everything off a ratio of 1 instead of 100 then multiply the whole thing by 100 to get the %.

But now I find out we can just go 67 X (1+.99+.55+.30+.5) = 223.78

Which is neater for sure but does require a firmer understanding of the process.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

I am a database engineer

Don't worry I want hold that against you 😝.