Grendel should be able to suck enemies out of other CC

[sunderthefirmament]

Grendel gets a lot of undeserved hate.  He's a decent frame, and even a downright powerful frame if you have Arcane Energize at max rank.  But that's not what this is about.  His kit is entirely dependent on his 1, so I posit that Grendel should be able to suck enemies out of other grouping CC that currently blocks the big suck.  For example, when playing alongside a Khora, you might notice that you cannot suck enemies out of the strangledome.  Nor can you pull them out of Vauban's vortex in most situations.

 

Grendel's entire kit falls apart without his 1, so I think it should have greater priority than other CC pulling/grouping effects.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The reason Grendel is so disliked is due to the extremely poor implementation of his 1’s energy drain. It makes his extremely unreliable to play as leaving just one enemy in his stomach for too long can result in your energy dropping to 0 in an instant.

[sunderthefirmament]

48 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

The reason Grendel is so disliked is due to the extremely poor implementation of his 1’s energy drain. It makes his extremely unreliable to play as leaving just one enemy in his stomach for too long can result in your energy dropping to 0 in an instant.

I'm well aware, and I mentioned this in my post.  But this isn't the place for this discussion, as it has already been hashed out thousands of times and this thread is a feedback request for added functionality to his 1.  Namely, I want it to be able to pull enemies out of other CC like vortex, strangledome, and larva.  Actually, maybe not larva, as Nidus arguably depends on that for the rest of his kit to function.  Not quite to the same degree as Grendel, but I could see where the argument would be made that stealing enemies from Nidus hurts his kit.

[Tiltskillet]

19 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Grendel's entire kit falls apart without his 1, so I think it should have greater priority than other CC pulling/grouping effects.

Even though I agree that Grendel is more dependent on controlling enemies than any other frame, overriding other frames' CCs is problematic, I think, and skirts around the deeper issue.

 A better solution (suggested many times before, and maybe even by you IIRC) is to change Grendel's kit so that all his abilities have a base function without anything in his belly.  IOW, consuming enemies would enhance his 2, 3, and 4 rather than enabling them.

If that's too much work, maybe there could be a mechanic where he gets "partial gut credit" for activating Feast on enemies without consuming them. And maybe this also addresses the issues he has with kill stealing.

This sounds potentially odd and jarring to me though, especially with spitting. And maybe not much easier than reworking his whole kit.  

[Lutesque]

19 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

For example, when playing alongside a Khora, you might notice that you cannot suck enemies out of the strangledome.  Nor can you pull them out of Vauban's vortex in most situations.

That's a Shame... As a Booben main I would be more than greatful if someone would clear out my Bastille's and Vortex's since the Former actually scales with Ability Strength... ,😱

 

[Bionic711]

I noticed this today in an arbitration. I was not able to suck enemies out of Khora's cages (I am pretty sure I was able to before). This ultimately resulted in me leaving the arbi after 2 rewards because I was useless. I replace Grendel's 4 with Dispensary and use an equilibrium build with synth on the pets. This results in my having 0 energy issues and I can readily sustain up to 18 enemies in my stomach if stationary. I do not use Arcane Energize.

That said, I then went into a an ESO and noticed I was not able to suck up Eximus units and I am 100% positive I was able to before. So, with not being able to suck up enemies through Frost's globe, Khora or Vauban abilities...

 

He is my favorite frame. Something needs to change.

My suggestion is to allow Grendel to Feast on Eximus units again in addition to allowing Grendel to Feast on enemies from/through another Frame's CC abilities. This opens their CC back to keep CCing and it a synergistic relationship. Ultimately, the game is about killing enemies. Even something like Nidus's Larva (I am positive I used to suck things out of) I can no longer Feast on. Feast on their Larva means their CD is reset and can Larva again. While this may also remove the Nidus ability to stomp to a) build energy or b) build stacks, as a Grendel player I can assist with energy generation with my 2 and have no benefits for that Nidus by casting Feast on his Larva. Nidus also has other ways to generate stacks while Grendel is basically useless without anything in his stomach (my build allows me to use Dispensary for Energy/Health/Ammo).

 

[ScytodiDaedalus]

5 hours ago, Bionic711 said:

I noticed this today in an arbitration. I was not able to suck enemies out of Khora's cages

More reasons to dislike Khora's Idle Carousel.

5 hours ago, Bionic711 said:

He is my favorite frame. Something needs to change.

I find it impossible to believe someone finds Grendel a favorite, not kidding, I can't believe people enjoy the press 1 and scroll the mouse to Vacuum.

[sunderthefirmament]

35 minutes ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

More reasons to dislike Khora's Idle Carousel.

I find it impossible to believe someone finds Grendel a favorite, not kidding, I can't believe people enjoy the press 1 and scroll the mouse to Vacuum.

Khora could use some changes.  She's not good for the game, honestly.  The stupid scaling on her 1, combined with its spammy, uninteresting nature and repetitive sound effects... it's almost as stupid as Maiming Strike used to be.  And her 4 is just boring.  She's a powerful frame, obviously.  She really helped me through Steel Path back when it was new and I was trying to clear the star chart.  But I'm not going to pretend she's fun or interesting to play.

 

But Grendel is a delight to play.  If DE fixes his 1 being unable to succ enemies out of other succs... and maybe doubles the base duration on nourish buffs (or adds a refresh of a few seconds every time you spit out an enemy with 3), then he'd be fantastic.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Khora could use some changes.  She's not good for the game, honestly.  The stupid scaling on her 1, combined with its spammy, uninteresting nature and repetitive sound effects... it's almost as stupid as Maiming Strike used to be.  And her 4 is just boring.  She's a powerful frame, obviously.  She really helped me through Steel Path back when it was new and I was trying to clear the star chart.  But I'm not going to pretend she's fun or interesting to play.

While I think an argument could be made about Khora’s damage on her 1 (cries in atlas) I don’t think she is unhealthy for the game. It is instead people that player like poorly and maximize strength to simply cc everything that cause issues. While I don’t share the annoyance, I know many people hate max range limbos, yet they seem to have no issue with max range khora which baffles me because at least limbo stops enemy movement. 

[sunderthefirmament]

Just now, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

While I think an argument could be made about Khora’s damage on her 1 (cries in atlas) I don’t think she is unhealthy for the game. It is instead people that player like poorly and maximize strength to simply cc everything that cause issues. While I don’t share the annoyance, I know many people hate max range limbos, yet they seem to have no issue with max range khora which baffles me because at least limbo stops enemy movement. 

Usually the Khora is screeching on repeat and killing everything around her though.  At least, if she's played well.  

 

But I see your point.  I hadn't really given it much thought, but I don't love seeing Khora unless I'm in a specific farming situation.  Kuva Survival?  Sure.  Steel essence back in the day?  Absolutely.  Don't worry, Khora mains.  I'll never give you a hard time about your choice.  And I've certainly never aborted a mission because a Khora is present.  I still think she could use some tweaks, though (her and every statstick frame).  But I digress.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

and maybe doubles the base duration on nourish buffs

More base duration would make him so much more fun to me.  Although doubling sounds pretty crazy.

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

or adds a refresh of a few seconds every time you spit out an enemy with 3

Oh gawd, Regurgitate augment, I can already see it. 💩

[sunderthefirmament]

55 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

More base duration would make him so much more fun to me.  Although doubling sounds pretty crazy.

Oh gawd, Regurgitate augment, I can already see it. 💩

If not doubling, then at least a 25% increase.  I don't see why Aqua Blades got such a massive increase and Nourish can't.  Granted, Grendel is a way better frame than Yareli.  But even so, Nourish has three different buffs to maintain.  It's ridiculous that the base duration is so short.

 

And I really would rather see this as part of his base kit rather than an augment.  He still deserves at least one balance pass, right?  Didn't his post-release review get cut short?

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

And I really would rather see this as part of his base kit rather than an augment. 

Totally.   And it's a pretty neat idea.

I just think it would scream OH, COOL, NEW GRENDEL AUGMENT IDEA!!! to DE.  (I'm still ******* bitter about Catapult, if you couldn't guess.)

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Khora could use some changes.  She's not good for the game, honestly.  The stupid scaling on her 1, combined with its spammy, uninteresting nature and repetitive sound effects... it's almost as stupid as Maiming Strike used to be.  And her 4 is just boring.  She's a powerful frame, obviously.  She really helped me through Steel Path back when it was new and I was trying to clear the star chart.  But I'm not going to pretend she's fun or interesting to play.

I used her to Farm the Hema Research....

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Usually the Khora is screeching on repeat and killing everything around her though.  At least, if she's played well.  

Half of the Khora's I know player her Well... The other Half Setup Max Range Dangle Dome and just sit there.... Waiting... 😱

 

[ScytodiDaedalus]

4 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

She's a powerful frame, obviously.

To be honest, I think she's busted, literally OP, Strangledome is the highest range CC "field" that pulls enemies through walls, has them stuck in corners and when they get "trapped" in the Dome, they just flail & swing about. Remember when everyone complained about Hydroid's tentacles flailing grabbed enemies? Basically the same thing except it's the ENTIRE room now.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

I used her to Farm the Hema Research....

Cool, she's a +% Drop chance frame, that doesn't justify the fact 4 is boring as oblivion itself. Honestly, I am one to think that Loot abilities & augments should not exist, sole purpose is to farm mats or mods, after that they're not used or only put in arguments to justify a lack of buffs. When was the last time you all played Nekros, mhm?

Anyhow, Back to Grendel, yes, there shouldn't be issues with already CC'ed enemies preventing him to devour (boring-vaccum) them.

 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

When was the last time you all played Nekros, mhm?

2 Days Ago 😁....

But before that it was 2 Years Ago 😝.

1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

Anyhow, Back to Grendel, yes, there shouldn't be issues with already CC'ed enemies preventing him to devour (boring-vaccum) them.

As I mentioned before... It would be great if He could Take These Enemies off of Booben's Hands since he really doesn't need the Extra Enemies.... Quite Frankly it's a lot of Work 😥....

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

When was the last time you all played Nekros, mhm?

He was my second frame.