Nullifier's Drones need a "Disable Threshold"

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Note: This is not much of a nerf, rather an increase an options to take down the enemy

What's Wrong with Nullifiers?

I like that warframe allows for variety. if I want to be a dude with a sniper and heavy hitting slow pistols with a scythe, I can! This is awesome! Except wait, no I can't, not when we have nullifiers

These enemies really just about force players to run inside the bubble if they are using slow fire rate weapons and I really do not think it's fair. There's a little Drone that you can shoot but it's so small, Scales In Health, and is moving around so much that it makes it near impossible to finish off, defeating its purpose of being a skill shot sort of thing to take out the bubble, as it eventually forces you to shoot the bubble instead or go inside of it due to the health scaling

I would like to suggest a change so that the scaling it isn't forcing players who like slow rate of fire weapons to go in the bubble, or bring high rate of fire weapons.

Temporary Disable Threshold

Basically, drones would now have a threshold where a certain amount of damage will always end up temporarily disabling the drone, no matter how high its health is.

For example, let's say the damage threshold is 100k damage (just a placeholder value). This means that no matter how much health the drone has, dealing atleast 100k or more damage to it will cause the drone to go offline for a few seconds, destroying the bubble till the drone reawakens to regrow the bubble. Once the drone is back online, dealing another 100k or more damage to it will cause the temporary disable effect to repeat, UNLESS the drone either

1.) Had less than 100k health left. In this case, dealing 100k or more damage would destroy the drone permanently 

Or

2.) The drone has over 100k health left, like 110k health; but you deal over 110k damage, say 200k damage. This would destroy the drone permanently too.

This change would allow nullifiers to maintain their same level of threat, even with the drone scaling health, BUT now your slow rate of fire weapons will always have a way to be viable in the fight.

PS: AOE weapons must hit the Drone with the projectile to damage it, instead of hitting it with the explosion (for all of you so concerned about them!)

Edit: I hear you guys, but no. I think warframe is at its best when it's giving players multiple ways to tackle situations. Being forced to play Inaros, Drop my Scythe, Alex, or my Vectics, Or have my abilities reset, is just no where near as fun as simply letting me shoot the super small drone with pin point accuracy like a badas, and keeping my whole kit intact, like you guys get to do with your fast firerate weapons or frame that doesn't rely on abilities

Much rather share a similar experience with my loadout too, rather than being excluded

[Ace04r]

While I don't disagree that slow firing weapons suck on nullifiers, I'd point to bringing a fast firing secondary or swinging a melee at them to help out.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

17 minutes ago, Ace04r said:

While I don't disagree that slow firing weapons suck on nullifiers, I'd point to bringing a fast firing secondary or swinging a melee at them to help out.

I did, but I really feel like I shouldn't have to. Don't get me wrong, I like fast fire rate weapons but if I'm trying to run without them why I gotta be basically forced to use them? Is it too much to ask for another way to take them out? Shouldn't be so much wrong with wanting to play with shotguns, explosives, Snipers, bows, scythes, etc. For Primaries, secondaries, and melee. 

I think the idea above is a fair one too. You don't have to aim with a fast firerate weapon, and slow firerate you have to aim. So you're still at a disadvantage but atleast you get to have your favorite loadout 

[Boll]

[miter] [neutralizing justice]

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 minutes ago, Boll said:

[miter] [neutralizing justice]

Gonna add a edit to explain why forcing loadouts isn't as fun as having more variety, granted the game uses variety as it's main source of entertainment 

[GwinKyblood]

Boy, the nullifiers are the best part and """"hard"""" content of the game. They are strongers and meme. Please dont suggest any changes for our best BOSS of the game. BTW use miter + augment justice if u dont like them.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

14 minutes ago, GwinKyblood said:

Boy, the nullifiers are the best part and """"hard"""" content of the game. They are strongers and meme. Please dont suggest any changes for our best BOSS of the game. BTW use miter + augment justice if u dont like them.

Yea but the way to destroy them is to just shoot the bubble right? Or go in and 1 shot the ene enemy?

That's simple right?

If you agree it's simple then look at the idea again, its not a nerf to nullifiers, it does nothing but increase weapon options (while also making them a little harder with energy drain for ignoring them)

The difficulty to dispose of them remains much the same

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

2.) Remove its health and shields and just give it 2 hit points, meaning if you hit it twice with any weapon at any level, it gets destroyed. This way people who are using slow firing weapons have a actual way of getting rid of the thing. Fast firing weapons could Destroy the bubble in less than a second anyway so this change doesn't effect them much at all. So everybody wins

Would this involve AoE weapons too? Because while I sometimes think the little shield drone is pretty tough at times (mixing Ancients and Nullifiers leads to one hell of a fight), I feel like it’d make more sense for precision weapons to be the answer.

As an aside; there’s going to be incentive to mix a build up; the game doesn’t do so well when it’s one build all the time. To fight in the higher level missions I need to change some of my builds, but I think that’s kind of expected; vice versa for lower levels if someone doesn’t want to just stomp on everything

edit: 🤔 Come to think of it, I’m not so sure I’ve been building right to deal with the little shield drone. I’m going to do some testing and see what it actually takes and if I can account for it with what I choose to bring to the fight; maybe a change isn’t necessary

double edit: Yeesh. It does feel pretty tough; I wonder if I’m doing something wrong

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

2.) Remove its health and shields and just give it 2 hit points, meaning if you hit it twice with any weapon at any level, it gets destroyed. This way people who are using slow firing weapons have a actual way of getting rid of the thing. Fast firing weapons could Destroy the bubble in less than a second anyway so this change doesn't effect them much at all. So everybody wins

Why at “any level”? There’s going to be some requirement for a certain amount of damage for certain levels; I wouldn’t think it’s a concern to use an unmodded weapon for level 60 content because expecting to use it in general would be a bit of a surprise

[(NSW)Greybones]

Hmm. I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong or what, but it does kind of seem like the drone could have a quarter of the health it currently has and still be feasible; as it stands I don’t know whether it’s actually an option to destroy it when there’s nothing but Nullifiers and we need to get rid of those shields permanently

edit: Or at least half the amount of current health; I get that it can be a last resort, and maybe shouldn’t so readily be the first option for everything

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Why at “any level”? There’s going to be some requirement for a certain amount of damage for certain levels; I wouldn’t think it’s a concern to use an unmodded weapon for level 60 content because expecting to use it in general would be a bit of a surprise

Because it takes the same number of bullets to shoot the bubble with a high fire rate weapon at any level.

Might as well Make it fair.

3 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Would this involve AoE weapons too?

For the projectile part of the aoe weapon, not the explosion part of it (aka need to hit the Drone with the center of the explosion, point of impact)

3 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hmm. I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong or what, but it does kind of seem like the drone could have a quarter of the health it currently has and still be feasible; as it stands I don’t know whether it’s actually an option to destroy it when there’s nothing but Nullifiers and we need to get rid of those shields permanently

Yes it's a bit of a joke. If you were to use a high firerate weapon you can not only shoot the bubble down, but also be able to shoot the Drone on his back A LOT easier.

It's really like the Drone is only there to force you into having high attack rate weapons, or use frames that don't need abilities. No other reason, its ridiculous 

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Because it takes the same number of bullets to shoot the bubble with a high fire rate weapon at any level.

Might as well Make it fair.

Ah, I see what you mean

[Ace04r]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

I did, but I really feel like I shouldn't have to. Don't get me wrong, I like fast fire rate weapons but if I'm trying to run without them why I gotta be basically forced to use them? Is it too much to ask for another way to take them out? Shouldn't be so much wrong with wanting to play with shotguns, explosives, Snipers, bows, scythes, etc. For Primaries, secondaries, and melee. 

I think the idea above is a fair one too. You don't have to aim with a fast firerate weapon, and slow firerate you have to aim. So you're still at a disadvantage but atleast you get to have your favorite loadout 

Yeah believe me, I see where you're coming from; many people, myself included, think AOE's have completely powercreeped single target guns.  Snipers were never amazing in warframe but if you have a choice between a Latron Prime and a Opticor Vandal, why even would you consider the former?

Point is, there's some wild misbalance in this game.  It's all over the place.  Some warframes die from knockdowns.  Some die from random toxin procs.  Some warframes completely and totally ignore both of those situations.  

I love the options this game provides and wouldn't mind your suggested changes. There's just some much that needs tweaking in warframe these days lol

[RLanzinger]

"Nullifier bubbles enemies need a Slight change (This is not a nerf)"

😏 : A good Idea need always a good close up

"a dude with a sniper and heavy hitting slow pistols with a scythe, ..."

😎 : That fellow know how to play... like my Frost Snipetron V. / T. AK Bolto  / Reaper P.

"Remove its health and shields and just give it 2 hit points "

😲 : euuhhhhhhhhhh

"Title blabla ... (This is not a nerf)"

😑 : So basically a NERF AS any weapons with at least multishot x2... (So 2 hits) will WIPE OUT the drone. And NPC Shield Gating mean oneshot when damage exceed Shield, 1/20 of damage attack health. Shield 1hp + health 1hp mean Damage of 6 to oneshot it.

 

Hey (PSN)Frost_Nephilim, why not just ask to suppress nullifiers ... ??? No need to answer ^^

PS : this was a very funny post, so thanks for the (This is not a nerf) part 👍😂

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

17 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

So basically a NERF AS any weapons with at least multishot x2... (So 2 hits) will WIPE OUT the drone. And NPC Shield Gating mean oneshot when damage exceed Shield, 1/20 of damage attack health. Shield 1hp + health 1hp mean Damage of 6 to oneshot it.

The idea is to give slow fireate weapons a way to deal with bubbles in a way that fast firerate weapons deal with them

So 

1.) Multishot doesn't count for high firerate weapons on the bubble so that means it would have to not count here as well, build as much multishot as you want and try to shoot a bubble, WITH a shotgun! Tell me if it did anything

2.) High fire rate weapons down bubbles in approximately 1 second. It's more efficient to just shoot the bubble than the small drone because of the time required to get your aim precise enough (approx a second too)

A slow fire rate  weapon would have to aim to shoot it down by first aiming and shooting it twice, taking approx 1 second under good conditions, more if you are slow and are in bad conditions 

Where's the nerf when the bubble gets dealt with in the same time frame?

"why not just ask to suppress nullifiers?"

Cause I like threats/dangers in videogames and nullifiers add that, plus this idea doesnt really remove the threat they pose, rather it lets you take on the same level of threat with a different loadout. I hate randomly dying at no fault of your own, and with certain loadouts that's all this nullifier serves as. A chance for you to get obliterated by having no other option but to run inside the bubble and pray to God nothing shoots you while your pants are down (no abilities)

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

Title blabla ... (This is not a nerf)

Also read the very 1st sentence

On 2022-01-27 at 10:06 AM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Note: This is not much of a nerf, rather an increase an options to take down the enemy

The enemy maintains its same level of threat without excluding the use of weapons as severely (allowing other methods of take down)

The drone exist up there for players to destroy the bubble with it, however it becomes irrelevant with it scaling in health. Who does this affect? No one except those who use Snipers or slow fire rate weapons. Fast fire rate weapons can chew threw the bubble and just shoot the Drone on the enemies back or 1 shot the enemy.

Like it's sole existence is so that you eventually can't use slow weapons to destroy its bubble....... doesn't make the game harder, as people have pointed out, just bring a high firerate secondary (the more I think about it, an operator Amp could work too)

So what's the point in excluding slower weapons? Better yet, considering high fire rate weapons don't even need to shoot it until its on the nullifiers back and is much easier to destroy (and slow weapons eventually just cant destroy the drone) what's the point of it existing period?

No reason at all

It only serves purpose in low level missions. High fire rate weapons still can ignore the thing but slow weapons actually have use against it. It's tricky to aim at but at least it serves a purpose

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

9 hours ago, Ace04r said:

Yeah believe me, I see where you're coming from; many people, myself included, think AOE's have completely powercreeped single target guns.  Snipers were never amazing in warframe but if you have a choice between a Latron Prime and a Opticor Vandal, why even would you consider the former?

Point is, there's some wild misbalance in this game.  It's all over the place.  Some warframes die from knockdowns.  Some die from random toxin procs.  Some warframes completely and totally ignore both of those situations.  

I love the options this game provides and wouldn't mind your suggested changes. There's just some much that needs tweaking in warframe these days lol

Word

[Lutesque]

On 2022-01-27 at 5:06 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

 

1.) Make the little Drone that sits on the bubble stay facing to wards the player. Maybe turn it into a turret that fires nullifier bullets that drain the player's energy by say 1% per shot with maybe a 2 bullet per second fire rate, to explain why it's facing you

Aren't These Things Annoying Enough Already ? 😐

We already have Leech Eximus Units for Energy Drains and they Can Do It through Walls AND they are getting Buffed in The Next Major Update....

Nullifiers should just be Deleted.... 

They are Frustrating because they are designed to Be Frustrating..... It's no Accident.... That Drone is suppose to be impossible to hit... The game would be Too Much Fun other wise.... 😐

On 2022-01-27 at 5:06 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

 

2.) Remove its health and shields and just give it 2 hit points, meaning if you hit it twice with any weapon at any level, it gets destroyed. This way people who are using slow firing weapons have a actual way of getting rid of the thing. Fast firing weapons could Destroy the bubble in less than a second anyway so this change doesn't effect them much at all. So everybody wins

DE doesn't Win....

So they won't do it... 👀

On 2022-01-27 at 5:06 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

 

Edit: I hear you guys, but no. I think warframe is at its best when it's giving players multiple ways to tackle situations. Being forced to play Inaros, Drop my Scythe, Alex, or my Vectics, Or have my abilities reset, is just no where near as fun as simply letting me shoot the super small drone with pin point accuracy like a badas, and keeping my whole kit intact, like you guys get to do with your fast firerate weapons or frame that doesn't rely on abilities

That's why they need to be removed... Not "Adjusted"...

On 2022-01-28 at 4:26 AM, (NSW)Greybones said:

 

edit: 🤔 Come to think of it, I’m not so sure I’ve been building right to deal with the little shield drone. I’m going to do some testing and see what it actually takes and if I can account for it with what I choose to bring to the fight; maybe a change isn’t necessary

double edit: Yeesh. It does feel pretty tough; I wonder if I’m doing something wrong

The Drone is Immune to AoE....

And it's got a Tiny Hurtbox...

19 hours ago, Ace04r said:

Yeah believe me, I see where you're coming from; many people, myself included, think AOE's have completely powercreeped single target guns.  Snipers were never amazing in warframe but if you have a choice between a Latron Prime and a Opticor Vandal, why even would you consider the former?

They Didn't though...

Single Target Guns were always Rubbish....

Before they were Outclassed be Melee....

And before that there were Outclassed by Saryn...

The problem is not that AoE is Better than Single Target.... The Problem is there's Enemies Everywhere All The Time...

 

[kapn655321]

I totally agree with where you're going here.

Making it like 2hp would be too easy to cheese with literally any aoe dmg, but there's a way around this.. Make it a headshot. AoE damage has some work arounds for not triggering headshots, so it still takes aim. Make that drone a dang ol' headshot. (And make it flying for the sake of Lanka augment to turn those drones into electric traps.) Been saying this for years.

[(XBOX)THE NTT]

I'd be happy if they just made the drone centered on the top of the nully bubble so you could shoot at it from any angle.  Giving it a gun as an excuse to face the player doesn't solve the problem of "WHICH" player when you are in a squad.

I'm also just happy the drone exists - because I remember when they didn't.

EDIT TO ADD: I'd also be happy if they fix the bug where when you are not the host, sometimes shooting and destroying the drone makes the bubble invulnerable to ANY damage (guns/melee/etc) meaning you HAVE to go inside to deal with it. Only seems to happen with the naturak for me (again - when NOT host)

 

 

[Venefik]

 I support this. I rarely struggle with them anymore, since I hate them so much that I almost always use a Lega. But it's indeed frustrating to try and deal with them with slower weapons. When it does happen, I just feel like aborting and picking Titania lol. With my favorite murderous fae, that bubble disappears faster than the nulli does once they are vulnerable lol.

 Oh, and don't worry. Most people know that multishot is completely ineffective against those bubbles ('cause shotgunz). It's quite obvious that nerfing isn't the point of the post. Only the clueless, condescending individual seems to miss that. They also seem to miss that multiple weapons can already oneshot that drone, such as the Redeemer Prime. And some others can actually ignore the bubble entirely, like the Verdilac's toxic waves or Sepulcrum's alt fire. Wow it almost seems like all that talk was pointless. Almost.

 And I completely agree that the drone should not scale. There is no point in the drone being skill based if it demands specific weaponry and eventually becomes harder to deal with than the bubble itself.

✨+1✨

[Silligoose]

On 2022-01-27 at 5:06 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Note: This is not much of a nerf, rather an increase an options to take down the enemy

I like that warframe allows for variety. if I want to be a dude with a sniper and heavy hitting slow pistols with a scythe, I can! This is awesome! Except wait, no I can't, not when we have nullifiers

These enemies really just about force players to run inside the bubble if they are using slow fire rate weapons and I really do not think it's fair. There's a little Drone that you can shoot but it's so small, Scales In Health, and is moving around so much that it makes it near impossible to shoot, kind of defeating its purpose of being a skill shot sort of thing to take out, as it eventually forces you to shoot the bubble instead or go in as enemy levels increase

Would like to suggest 2 changes so that it isn't forcing players so much to go in it or bring specific weapons

1.) Make the little Drone that sits on the bubble stay facing to wards the player. Maybe turn it into a turret that fires nullifier bullets that drain the player's energy by say 1% per shot with maybe a 2 bullet per second fire rate, to explain why it's facing you

2.) Remove its health and shields and just give it 2 hit points, meaning if you hit it twice with any weapon at any level, it gets destroyed. This way people who are using slow firing weapons have a actual way of getting rid of the thing. Fast firing weapons could Destroy the bubble in less than a second anyway so this change doesn't effect them much at all. So everybody wins

Edit: I hear you guys, but no. I think warframe is at its best when it's giving players multiple ways to tackle situations. Being forced to play Inaros, Drop my Scythe, Alex, or my Vectics, Or have my abilities reset, is just no where near as fun as simply letting me shoot the super small drone with pin point accuracy like a badas, and keeping my whole kit intact, like you guys get to do with your fast firerate weapons or frame that doesn't rely on abilities

Much rather share a similar experience with my loadout too, rather than being excluded

I'm a player that still uses sniper rifles, single-target bows or other slower firing single target weapons in SP and I really liked the addition of the Projector Drone on Nullifiers because it opened up viability for weapons like sniper rifles against Nullifiers. Sure, sometimes the Projector Drone moves around, in which case I'm happy to have an accurate long range weapon to be ale to take it out, and sometimes it does hide behind its own bubble, in which case I need to either reposition, select another target, or hit the bubble in hopes of getting a clear line of sight on the drone (if I don't have a faster firing secondary), but I enjoy these mechanics.

Personally I wouldn't want to see these changes. The fact that the drone isn't always easy to hit or in a clear line of sight allows for greater variety in tactical requirements when encountering the Nullifier enemies, so I wouldn't really want to see it sitting somewhere facing me, while the second mechanic would not only be to the advantage of high fire-rate weapons, but a disadvantage to sniper rifles, since a one-hit destruction is out of the question if a timing mechanic is programmed in to ensure that multi-shots don't cause the two-hit requirement to proc off a single hit. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

5 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The fact that the drone isn't always easy to hit or in a clear line of sight allows for greater variety in tactical requirements when encountering the Nullifier enemies

I can understand that, sounds fine

5 hours ago, Silligoose said:

be to the advantage of high fire-rate weapons

Makes little since, high firerate weapons have always been able to destroy bubbles in near a second by easily shooting the giant hitbox of the bubble itself no matter how high enemies go in level, shooting the drone would require near a second too

There's no advantage there if the time remains much the same

Have you tried using high firerate weapons to shoot at the bubble (not the drone) to see how Easy and FAST it is erase the bubble? Trying to aim and fire at a drone with high firerate weapons would only require more effort than shooting the bubble and just shooting the drone off the enemies back or killing the enemy

5 hours ago, Silligoose said:

but a disadvantage to sniper rifles, since a one-hit destruction is out of the question if a timing mechanic is programmed in to ensure that multi-shots don't cause the two-hit requirement to proc off a single hit. 

Also doesn't make sense, the drone currently scales in health, eventually requiring way more than 1-2 shots to dispose of it, while it's occasionaly moving all over the place for you to miss.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2022-01-29 at 8:14 PM, (XBOX)THE NTT said:

I'd be happy if they just made the drone centered on the top of the nully bubble so you could shoot at it from any angle.  Giving it a gun as an excuse to face the player doesn't solve the problem of "WHICH" player when you are in a squad.

I could deal with that

[Silligoose]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

What example of greater variety in tactical equipment are you talking about? 

I said greater variety in tactical requirements, which includes repositioning and target selection. In terms of loadout, I'd suggest considering some ROF on your Aklex if you find it doesn't fire fast enough, or some range/attack speed on your scythe, so you have options in the event you need to take out the bubble quickly without having line of sight on the Projector Drone. You can then still maintain a relatively safe distance and dispatch of the bubble quickly.

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Makes little since, high firerate weapons have always been able to destroy bubbles in near a second by easily shooting the giant hitbox of the bubble itself no matter how high enemies go in level, shooting the drone would require near a second too

There's no advantage there if the time remains much the same

Have you not tried using high firerate weapons to shoot at the bubble (not the drone) to see how Easy and FAST it is erase the bubble? Trying to aim and fire at a drone with high firerate weapons would only require more effort than shooting the bubble and just shooting the drone off the enemies back or killing the enemy

This makes it even faster, as instead of 4+ hits being needed (assuming a full-size shield), it would be 2. 

30 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Also doesn't make sense, the drone scales in health, eventually requiring way more than 1-2 shots to dispose of it, while it's occasionaly moving all over the place for you to miss.

And when is that? How long do I have to sit in SP Endurance runs to get to that point, because I'm one-shotting them in SP Incursions, with my MR2 Vectis.

The suggestion of changing the Projection Drone HP to a standard 2-hit bar is to the detriment of sniper rifles, while it benefits higher ROF weapons, including weapons that are not modded for damage.