Detailed analysis of Hydroid

[Zabyr]

@TheKurtiStryke

As they say: "If you don't like it, don't play".

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

ah yes, you mean the long and painfull time required to cast 1 and 4?

There is such a thing as modification. Do you know about this one? Well, through it you can fend off the shortcomings of this or that Warframe. Or, you can strengthen the strengths of the Warframe. To speed up charging there is - a mod called Natural Talent and Amber Archon Shards.

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

or the 4 violently shaking enemies here and there so it's harder to shoot at them?

I showed that you can shoot at enemies in tentacles without any problems.

Timecode - 1:17:30. Turn on the translator from Russian to English and look.

 

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

or maybe the 2 that makes you always slam your face in the walls?

"Tidal Surge" can be canceled by jumping (Space), or didn't you know? Or have you forgotten?

Timecode - 0:16:13.

 

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

or pheraps it's the 3 making the gameplay  nonexistent allowing you to press a button and go watch a movie?

I wonder what Revenant or Valkyrie does? Or Loki? Or Ivara? Isn't it the same? But you don't shout that they make the game "nonexistent".

 

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

oh no! wait, i'm sure it's because of the super storng passive right?

Timecode - 0:51:52.

Hydroid's passive is normal. Designed for close combat and is a mini-swarm of tentacles that does not require energy.
But you don’t know all this, but you speak out. If you don't like it, play with another Warframe, and leave us playing with Hydroid, because he gives us pleasure.

 

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

abilities 1-2-4 got better, do better damage, it's easier and less painfull to cast them(especially ability 4 that works better), and better synergy while basically staying the same,

The Warframe game was created for the mass consumer, where everyone will find a character to their liking. You somehow forget about this because of your selfishness.

В 01.10.2023 в 04:57, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

the only thing that changed was his 3, and guess what, once again DE manages to delete/change an ability that makes the gameplay either braindead or  nonexistent, but a lot of people complaing only because that stupid gameplay got removed and they refuse to use 1% of their brain while playing....some people just want to play the game by going afk......

"Undertow" was removed due to the fact that it was cheap, gave invulnerability and could kill enemies without armor in seconds.

Timecode - 0:29:35.

And also, because DE exchanged creativity for money and therefore, to reduce costs, makes shoddy alterations.

[Zabyr]

В 01.10.2023 в 14:47, (PSN)aarott сказал:

Zabyr reminds me of me, back when they changed Atlas. Atlas main, btw. And tell you what, I hated the changes to petrify. Yeah, instant petrify is better, but it was basically impossible to miss old petrify and it was way cooler. 

It took me a year to pick up Atlas again. I still miss old petrify, and I don't press his 3 ever, but fortunately I can get by without it.

Gonna be a bit harder for Hydroid though. They're not "'"'buffing"'"' undertow, they're taking it away completely. And I'm not sure Plunder will fill the defensive hole that undertow's loss will leave in his gameplay. 

I'm ashamed to admit, but I didn't know that Atlas's abilities were changed ☹️😔. I collected it in 2020 and that's it.
It's a pity that I missed the old Atlas (and Wukong). Yes, modern petrification was inconvenient for me when I was leveling up Atlas, it consumes a lot of energy, even with an energy efficiency of 175%, and gives little. But Atlas was fun to play.

В 01.10.2023 в 14:47, (PSN)aarott сказал:

Anyway, good luck Zabyr. I hope your pain'll heal. 

Thank you! I'd be lying if I said it would heal, after Disney destroyed Star Wars, my wound is still bleeding. Now there will be a second one.
Of course, I was ready for changes in Hydroid, but not like this. And the worst thing is, if suddenly I like the rework, no one guarantees that something won’t be removed from Hydroid again. And this causes even more pain because you can’t be sure of anything...

[Zabyr]

В 02.10.2023 в 16:37, Skoomaseller сказал:

tbh I don't see why DE can't make it so Undertow/Plunder becomes an alt-cast on Hydroid's 3rd ability slot.

Tap cast: Plunder

Hold cast: Undertow

strip armor, then drown everyone as they take %hp scaling damage in your puddle. Like it'd make undertow even better

You once said that DE hates Water Warframes, and I told you that it doesn't seem like it. But... now I'm ready to agree.

[Aruquae]

42 minutes ago, Zabyr said:

You once said that DE hates Water Warframes, and I told you that it doesn't seem like it. But... now I'm ready to agree.

Don’t worry Zabyr, there is still hope

We might get augments for the wonderful Looty Booty Pirate, which will (hopefully) bring him back to his non corrosive, fun CC puddle boy. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Don’t worry Zabyr, there is still hope

We might get augments for the wonderful Looty Booty Pirate, which will (hopefully) bring him back to his non corrosive, fun CC puddle boy. 

 

On the topic of augments, has anyone seen what the Plunder augment will be now that undertow goes the way of the dodo and Curative Undertow will now be a Plunder augment instead?

[Zabyr]

21 минуту назад, Malikili сказал:

Don’t worry Zabyr, there is still hope

We might get augments for the wonderful Looty Booty Pirate, which will (hopefully) bring him back to his non corrosive, fun CC puddle boy. 

 

Let's see.
Maybe DE will come to his senses and make an mod-augment to return "Undertow" for those who like it, without "Plunder", or they will combine "Tidal Surge" and "Undertow".

[Zabyr]

2 минуты назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

On the topic of augments, has anyone seen what the Plunder augment will be now that undertow goes the way of the dodo and Curative Undertow will now be a Plunder augment instead?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It’s too early to talk about this until the update is released.

[PsiWarp]

24 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

On the topic of augments, has anyone seen what the Plunder augment will be now that undertow goes the way of the dodo and Curative Undertow will now be a Plunder augment instead?

Rousing Plunder, heals Hydroid and allies in his Affinity Range.

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Rousing Plunder, heals Hydroid and allies in his Affinity Range.

Wait, that is confirmed? No need to dig up screenshots or anything since I believe you if you just say yes. 

[PsiWarp]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Wait, that is confirmed? No need to dig up screenshots or anything since I believe you if you just say yes. 

Section under Plunder.

[Aruquae]

53 minutes ago, Zabyr said:

Let's see.
Maybe DE will come to his senses and make an mod-augment to return "Undertow" for those who like it, without "Plunder", or they will combine "Tidal Surge" and "Undertow".

You know DE, listening to the community about ability changes then turning it into an augment. It might just work

[TheKurtiStryke]

@Zabyr

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

There is such a thing as modification. Do you know about this one? Well, through it you can fend off the shortcomings of this or that Warframe. Or, you can strengthen the strengths of the Warframe. To speed up charging there is - a mod called Natural Talent and Amber Archon Shards.

imagine having to waste 1 PRECIOUS slot just to make 2 abilities cast speet "tollerable",1 and 4 got rid of that slow ass cooldown, whats the problem?

 

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

I showed that you can shoot at enemies in tentacles without any problems.

and now is even easier to shoot them...whats the downside?

 

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

"Tidal Surge" can be canceled by jumping (Space), or didn't you know? Or have you forgotten?

no, i knew about that, but it was and felt too "clunky"...now is better..

 

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

wonder what Revenant or Valkyrie does? Or Loki? Or Ivara? Isn't it the same? But you don't shout that they make the game "nonexistent".

revenant can atleast move around and deal damage with a good range, valkyr is the same(but almost enevr used her...too boring", same for ivara and loki, i do not use them due to the stale and boring gameplay...maybe i use them just for spy missions(due to invisibility), so yeah, i still think that kind of gameplay is bad.

 

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

Hydroid's passive is normal

no sorry, it was trash, it worked few times....i've even tried to play around that passive with a specific build....but nothing...

 

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

"Undertow" was removed due to the fact that it was cheap, gave invulnerability and could kill enemies without armor in seconds.

AND the fact that you could just press 3 and go afk.....

 

i still don't get your point, everything in his kit got improved.... has better synergy, more damage, 100% armor removal..... what's -

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

The Warframe game was created for the mass consumer, where everyone will find a character to their liking. You somehow forget about this because of your selfishness.

no seriously. I DONT GET YOUR POINT! it's the ffffffreaking same warframe!!!! only 3 has changed...what's your problem!? 

[Skoomaseller]

13 hours ago, Zabyr said:

You once said that DE hates Water Warframes, and I told you that it doesn't seem like it. But... now I'm ready to agree.

welcome to the water frame club, where the only thing we drown... is our sorrow, with drink...

Edited October 13, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Skoomaseller]

5 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

@Zabyr

imagine having to waste 1 PRECIOUS slot just to make 2 abilities cast speet "tollerable",1 and 4 got rid of that slow ass cooldown, whats the problem?

 

and now is even easier to shoot them...whats the downside?

 

no, i knew about that, but it was and felt too "clunky"...now is better..

 

revenant can atleast move around and deal damage with a good range, valkyr is the same(but almost enevr used her...too boring", same for ivara and loki, i do not use them due to the stale and boring gameplay...maybe i use them just for spy missions(due to invisibility), so yeah, i still think that kind of gameplay is bad.

 

no sorry, it was trash, it worked few times....i've even tried to play around that passive with a specific build....but nothing...

 

AND the fact that you could just press 3 and go afk.....

 

i still don't get your point, everything in his kit got improved.... has better synergy, more damage, 100% armor removal..... what's -

no seriously. I DONT GET YOUR POINT! it's the ffffffreaking same warframe!!!! only 3 has changed...what's your problem!? 

i think the "press 3 to afk" point people seem to be parroting on here is quite disingenuous

just sitting in undertow is useless. you need to be controlling the battlefield with the rest of his kit, not hiding in a puddle. armor stripped/unarmored enemies die so goddamn quickly in undertow that it's hardly afk, it's more akin to a massive AOE DoT HP bar melter. which still requires effort since hydroid had no innate way of armor stripping, not to mention grouping everyone/pulling enemies into undertow.

and no one was doing afk undertow, trust me. no one plays hydroid after all, aside from the very few voicing their opinions about undertow's removal.

i dont agree w/ zabyr about everything else regarding hydroid's kit, in fact I think hydroid will be fantastic post-rework, but i can see why he and other hydroid players are upset regarding undertow's removal.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Section under Plunder.

I cannot understand how I missed that when I read through the workshop notes. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, appriciated!

 

[TheKurtiStryke]

17 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

i think the "press 3 to afk" point people seem to be parroting on here is quite disingenuous

just sitting in undertow is useless. you need to be controlling the battlefield with the rest of his kit, not hiding in a puddle. armor stripped/unarmored enemies die so goddamn quickly in undertow that it's hardly afk, it's more akin to a massive AOE DoT HP bar melter. which still requires effort since hydroid had no innate way of armor stripping, not to mention grouping everyone/pulling enemies into undertow.

17 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

and no one was doing afk undertow, trust me.

, trust me. no one plays hydroid after all, aside from the very few voicing their opinions about undertow's removal.

i dont agree w/ zabyr about everything else regarding hydroid's kit, in fact I think hydroid will be fantastic post-rework, but i can see why he and other hydroid players are upset regarding undertow's removal.

"just sitting in undertow is useless" agree, but not in DEf or INT, people tend to use that afk strategy in those missions, obviously that strategy is useless in EXT or SURV or the new missions, the main issue with that baility was hydori9d not being able to...move and forced to stay in one point or cast-uncasta-cast-uncast his 3 continously just to move.

17 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

and no one was doing afk undertow, trust me

playing this game since 2013 and i swear, in all these years(especially in the last 5-6) i saw literally...mmm 35/40 players using hydroid!(at best...) and those few times i saw them using that strategy....

so, besides the undertow removal, hydoirds as a whole, got improved and got just better in everything, so, losing undertow(dunno about the new ability, will have to test it) isn't such a big deal or a loss.
i'm a grendel main, and when i firts heard Pablo saying( eating 5 enemies at best) i was really pissed at first, but i took a good look at the whole kit...and before saying anyhting else, i waited for the rework to come live, and guess what, now grendel is 1000% better!, i know hydroid mains are pissed off, i'll understand that(i also went throught that kind of situation) but i think once the reowkr hits live, they will cyhange their mind...

but saying stuff like (we lost so much, before was better) it's just a big lie

[Skoomaseller]

11 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

"just sitting in undertow is useless" agree, but not in DEf or INT, people tend to use that afk strategy in those missions, obviously that strategy is useless in EXT or SURV or the new missions, the main issue with that baility was hydori9d not being able to...move and forced to stay in one point or cast-uncasta-cast-uncast his 3 continously just to move.

playing this game since 2013 and i swear, in all these years(especially in the last 5-6) i saw literally...mmm 35/40 players using hydroid!(at best...) and those few times i saw them using that strategy....

so, besides the undertow removal, hydoirds as a whole, got improved and got just better in everything, so, losing undertow(dunno about the new ability, will have to test it) isn't such a big deal or a loss.
i'm a grendel main, and when i firts heard Pablo saying( eating 5 enemies at best) i was really pissed at first, but i took a good look at the whole kit...and before saying anyhting else, i waited for the rework to come live, and guess what, now grendel is 1000% better!, i know hydroid mains are pissed off, i'll understand that(i also went throught that kind of situation) but i think once the reowkr hits live, they will cyhange their mind...

but saying stuff like (we lost so much, before was better) it's just a big lie

But losing undertow is not the same as lowering Grendel's Feast limit. The ability is still there and works. Undertow is going for good.

[Zabyr]

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

imagine having to waste 1 PRECIOUS slot just to make 2 abilities cast speet "tollerable",1 and 4 got rid of that slow ass cooldown, whats the problem?

For example, Revenant also needs to replace the slot with Natural Talent in order to use "Mesmer Skin" faster; for Equinox, with her "Mend & Maim"; for Nekros and his "Shadows of the Dead"; for Mirage and her "Prism" and so on.
Also, you're missing that a huge number of people use Amber Archon Shards to speed up their spells, NOT even on Hydroid. So what's the problem?

I don't use Amber Archon Shards or "Natural Talent", and two seconds of charging doesn't slow me down. It allows me to use "Tempest Barrage" tactically. Press it and you can go and hold the ability, and then where you need to use it. This is great!

I understand that you don't like it and the charger was removed... but it was not bad.

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

and now is even easier to shoot them...whats the downside?

The fact is that it wasn't a problem. Yes, now it has become even easier to kill enemies. Great! I don’t argue with this, I’m telling you that before it was possible to normally kill enemies in tentacles.

I shoot enemies in tentacles from Attica and everything was fine.

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

no, i knew about that, but it was and felt too "clunky"...now is better..

It was not clunky, you're exaggerating. They did not change "Tidal Surge", just removed the rag doll for enemies.

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

revenant can atleast move around and deal damage with a good range, valkyr is the same(but almost enevr used her...too boring", same for ivara and loki, i do not use them due to the stale and boring gameplay...maybe i use them just for spy missions(due to invisibility), so yeah, i still think that kind of gameplay is bad.

Revenant cancels 95% of the game, which is worse than "Undertow"and its invulnerability. Revenant has no balance, he's just STUPIDLY (Тупо неуязвим) invulnerable to damage and also puts enemies to sleep. It's called ИМБА (On Russian) - Over Power (On English). Yes, he can die if he stands and does nothing, but you don’t stand still.
Hydroid's invulnerability is balanced. You may be invulnerable, but you pay for it with movement. But, you can safely use your abilities in the "Undertow" and not be an ordinary puddle.

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

no sorry, it was trash, it worked few times....i've even tried to play around that passive with a specific build....but nothing...

The passive works for me often of the time because I always play Melee. But you don’t understand one thing - Yes, you don’t like the passive, but I like it and it works for me. If Pablo was a compos mentis Game Designer, he would have made two passives for Hydroid. I would leave the tentacle and give it a 100% chance of triggering and add a new passive, combining them. But we have what we have – potboiler work (Actually, as usual).

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

AND the fact that you could just press 3 and go afk.....

 

i still don't get your point, everything in his kit got improved.... has better synergy, more damage, 100% armor removal..... what's -

Again, you're exaggerating. How long will you be gone? For 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour? How many? After 15 minutes the game will kick you out (I checked when I spoke on the phone, the game kicks you out of the mission, both solo and in a team). But, afk in "Undertow", if you just sit, will end in 63 seconds, provided that you have 638 energy. With enemies you will run out of energy even faster. What AFK? Minute?
When I chat in the game, I use "Undertow" to avoid dying on the Steel Path, but sitting in "Undertow" all the time won't work.

You don't understand, that's normal. We are different, although I understand that you like a different playing style. I'm happy for you, seriously. I know what it's like when it's hard to find a character that suits you and is fun to be with. I found - it's Hydroid. And my game with him is very effective. In 6 years I only failed 170 missions out of 9054 because I'm a Hydroid 🏄‍♂️

Timecode - 1:09:34

 

В 13.10.2023 в 00:26, TheKurtiStryke сказал:

no seriously. I DONT GET YOUR POINT! it's the ffffffreaking same warframe!!!! only 3 has changed...what's your problem!? 

It was not the "Undertow" that changed, but the Hydroid itself.
In all games, with characters and in RPGs, I take classe - TANK. I love tanking, but Hydroid is a controller-disable. It turned my world upside down, because before I didn't like WIZARDs and CONTROLLERs. But Hydroid showed me that Controls can be even better than Tanking. And I really like it. And by combining Control + Tanking, Hydroid became invincible. I haven't died in a game with Hydroid for a long time. And... instead of developing him control, DE removed all that and made him a Debuffer-damage-tank, with little control. If I wanted to play a Debuffer-Damage-Tank, I would play Oberon, but I want to play Hydroid.
You don't understand this, but Hydroid has not become better, he has become different. Different class, different playstyle and different tactical role.
For example, let’s remove Rhino's "Iron Skin" and give him the removal of armor and theft of this armor from enemies with a cap of 1500 units. Will Rhino still be the same Rhino or will he be different?

[Zabyr]

В 13.10.2023 в 05:27, Skoomaseller сказал:

welcome to the water frame club, where the only thing we drown... is our sorrow, with drink...

No, I can't drink and plus, it's disgusting. Let's quench the sadness with hot tea and lemon

[Zabyr]

В 12.10.2023 в 18:27, Malikili сказал:

You know DE, listening to the community about ability changes then turning it into an augment. It might just work

I don’t want to spoil your mood, so we'll see how happens 🙃

[TheKurtiStryke]

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

For example, Revenant also needs to replace the slot with Natural Talent in order to use "Mesmer Skin" faster; for Equinox, with her "Mend & Maim"; for Nekros and his "Shadows of the Dead"; for Mirage and her "Prism" and so on.

never used natural talent on those frames, the cast speed is ok-ish, having it faster is an extra and not really needed, meanwhile hydroid 1 and 4 was a pain, AND, in order to fully use the full range, you where forced to charge those abilities

 

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

I understand that you don't like it and the charger was removed... but it was not bad.

so, the old charge was forcing you to wait like 2 seocnds before the full range, OR you had to use either a shard or a slot, now that thing is gone....isn't this a win-win?

 

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

The fact is that it wasn't a problem. Yes, now it has become even easier to kill enemies. Great! I don’t argue with this, I’m telling you that before it was possible to normally kill enemies in tentacles.

I shoot enemies in tentacles from Attica and everything was fine.

so, if before was fine, and now is even easire....whta's the problem...

 

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

Again, you're exaggerating. How long will you be gone? For 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour? How many? After 15 minutes the game will kick you out (I checked when I spoke on the phone, the game kicks you out of the mission, both solo and in a team). But, afk in "Undertow", if you just sit, will end in 63 seconds, provided that you have 638 energy. With enemies you will run out of energy even faster. What AFK? Minute?
When I chat in the game, I use "Undertow" to avoid dying on the Steel Path, but sitting in "Undertow" all the time won't work.

TBH i never bothered to undrestand how people could came up with a build that allows them to stay afk and to have their energy last enoguh, but i know it's possible, like one of my temamate made a build with gaus, spamming1-3 nonstop while running around and he never ran out of energy, i didn't even know it was possible..yet someone managed to create such build.about the afk part, i forgot about that, that feature is relatively "new", and it's not even that hard to avoid, just move after 10 min, collect something and go afk again.... and again, i'm saying this, because this is what my expericence with hydroid players was in these 9 years.

 

3 hours ago, Zabyr said:

instead of developing him control, DE removed all that and made him a Debuffer-damage-tank, with little control

now i get your point better and yeah...that amkes sense...., DE is trying to remove warframes that have such control(grendel's rework coff), now it was  hydroid's turn, well atleast they tried to tweak that ability and not just straight up remove it.

[Aruquae]

8 hours ago, Zabyr said:

I don’t want to spoil your mood, so we'll see how happens 🙃

Usually a Debby Downer
I'm being positive FOR you, dude
Take the copium TAKE IT

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

3 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

so, the old charge was forcing you to wait like 2 seocnds before the full range, OR you had to use either a shard or a slot, now that thing is gone....isn't this a win-win?

The charge wasn’t too bad. I understand the downsides to it but you can still move and use your weapons while charging or even use other abilities too. The situation of enemy positions changes quickly especially in a squad so being able to hold the charge after noticing something rather than quickly casting it was a nice option to be able to do.

It also “felt” impactful too. It was like I was holding something powerful when I was holding the charge which did feel immersive.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Turritopsis_Dohrnii

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

It also “felt” impactful too. It was like I was holding something powerful when I was holding the charge which did feel immersive.

Like carrying a massive cast iron pot to the dinner table expecting a good meal only to find out all that is inside is water when you remove the lid.

[Hypernaut1]

I'm really disappointed with losing the puddle. They did the same with Ember and turned a cool spontaneous combustion power into generic fireballs. They could've made world on fire work just like the new ult, without removing the flavor. They could've made the puddle work, even if they had to fold it into tidal wave. 

I'll miss the puddle. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Hypernaut1