Could we get a bonus reward on Disruption for completing all 4 defences, or improve the drop table from demolishers?

[3mptylord]

I would like to preface that my motivation for asking this has nothing to do with wanting more rewards - I think that Disruptions has one of the best endless reward structures and the reward tables are good. In fact, I would rather you completely ignored my feedback if addressing my issue meant you would have to nerf Disruption missions.

However, public Disruption lobbies are perhaps the only time I encounter "toxic optimization" in Warframe - a community that I otherwise love for being casual, helpful or laid-back.

Players get irate at you for "wasting time" by killing all the demolishers after the point where C-rotation drops are guaranteed. That "letting them explode is quicker". As far as I can tell, so long as I can kill them faster than it takes for them to get to the target - it's quicker than ignoring them. I don't know if people are confusing efficient with speed, or what. I genuinely cannot parse the logic. Yes, I don't get anything for killing 4/4 demolisher when killing already 1/4 gets me the best reward - but killing the other 3 isn't in any way a detriment.

I would like to stress that the issue is that these are public lobbies - I have no issue with tryhards in private lobbies. Play the game however you want.

Solutions I've come up with:

• Add an incentive to kill demolishers (similar to how Hidden Cache missions have bonus rewards per bonus objective completed).
• Add an incentive to complete a perfect run (similar to Spy mission, Rescue missions and Bounties have a bonus rewards for completing all bonus objectives).
• Increase the value of Universal Medallions (e.g. 5K Reputation or allow them to be exchanged for 4 or 5 Steel Essence so that you can get 1 Relic Pack for every 3-4 "bad" rewards). 

The bonus roll could be a unique loot table, or just an additional standard reward using the standard AABBCC rotation (so on the 5th and 6th round you can get double Cs). Alternatively, you could move the "undesirable" C rotation rewards to the bonus incentives loot table - i.e. instead of people getting "punished" with a Universal Medallion, the Universal Medallion becomes a potential *bonus* reward? (You could even throw in the usual "find all the secret cache" rewards like Xiphos blueprint parts.)

[TARINunit9]

34 minutes ago, 3mptylord said:

Players get irate at you for "wasting time" by killing all the demolishers after the point where C-rotation drops are guaranteed. That "letting them explode is quicker". As far as I can tell, so long as I can kill them faster than it takes for them to get to the target - it's quicker than ignoring them. I don't know if people are confusing efficient with speed, or what. I genuinely cannot parse the logic. Yes, I don't get anything for killing 4/4 demolisher when killing already 1/4 gets me the best reward - but killing the other 3 isn't in any way a detriment.

"Faster" is definitely wrong. There is only one very specific context where letting the 4th demolyst explode makes any sense: on Apollo, to deliberately get Rotation B instead of Rotation C. Anyone else is just being needlessly toxic

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, 3mptylord said:

That "letting them explode is quicker". As far as I can tell, so long as I can kill them faster than it takes for them to get to the target - it's quicker than ignoring them.

It's not that it's "quicker" mission times, it's "quicker" preferable reward pools. I'm guessing you're doing Lua, and people are asking you to get the B rotation instead of the C, since B is pure Axi relics. But the Lua lens/Universal medallion only makes up 13% of the C reward pool, and they have a chance to be useful in the future, so I usually just ignore the decriers and opt for faster mission times.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Disruption/Rewards#Lua

[3mptylord]

38 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

It's not that it's "quicker" mission times, it's "quicker" preferable reward pools. I'm guessing you're doing Lua, and people are asking you to get the B rotation instead of the C, since B is pure Axi relics. But the Lua lens/Universal medallion only makes up 13% of the C reward pool, and they have a chance to be useful in the future, so I usually just ignore them and opt for faster mission times.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Disruption/Rewards#Lua

Ah, so these people who are complaining vaguely know the strategy - but only insofar as "don't kill things", not that "we actually want B rotation" rewards. I suppose an alternative solution would be to make Universal Medallions more valuable/feel less useless, then? Relic Packs cost 20k reputation - so maybe boosting Universal Medallions to 5k reputation would make them would mean 3 random relics every 4 "bad" rewards? 

EDIT:

That said: I've never used a Universal Medallion so I have no appreciation for their economy. For me, they occupy a part of my mind similar to consumables in RPGs - "I'm going to save for when I really need it", and then I complete the game and have never used it. I planned on using them for Ventkids but then rank-4 Ventkids snuck up on me and I'm just going to finish it manually.

On the assumption the 5k rep would ruin the reputation economy, perhaps instead allow them to be exchanged for 4 or 5 Steel Essence with Teshin? (With the same intention being people buy a Relic Pack for 15 SE.)

EDIT2:

Alternatively, make Lua Lens and Universal Medallions what you get from the bonus objective loot table?

[Lutesque]

Can't we just delete this game mode instead ?

This is basically just "Nullifiers The Game"....

I don't like it.... 😭

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2022-04-02 at 5:04 PM, 3mptylord said:

I planned on using them for Ventkids but then rank-4 Ventkids snuck up on me and I'm just going to finish it manually.

You would've considered wasting universal medallions on the easiest syndicate to level up?

[3mptylord]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

You would've considered wasting universal medallions on the easiest syndicate to level up?

I didn't know it was going to be the easiest syndicate to level up when I got my first medallion - I assumed it would be a similar amount of grind to other syndicates but forcing me to engage in content I didn't want to do. That is to say, I thought I would be expected to spend as much time on a k-drive as, say, fishing. That said, I think they did significantly buff the amount of reputation you get for completing races from when I made that initial decision (and considering I found a post that claims doing grindies at The Pearl was one of the fastest ways to gain reputation, I'm assuming there was a point where performing stunts was more efficient than completing races).

Evidently I realized to the contrary before I actually made that mistake - but it's not like I have any other use for them. 

[3mptylord]

Oops I posted this in response to the wrong thread, sorry. 

[L3512]

On 2022-04-03 at 6:53 AM, TARINunit9 said:

"Faster" is definitely wrong. There is only one very specific context where letting the 4th demolyst explode makes any sense: on Apollo, to deliberately get Rotation B instead of Rotation C. Anyone else is just being needlessly toxic

Ironically this is also where the slow ass bursa loves to spawn hundreds of meters away or get stuck on terrain, and yet I have players who can't kill demos telling me it's faster.

 

On 2022-04-03 at 7:04 AM, 3mptylord said:

That said: I've never used a Universal Medallion so I have no appreciation for their economy

Pretty much worthless.

 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Hmmmm  I am totally unfamiliar with Disruptions A B C reward tables and I would really love to look at that info.....     My only goal in disruptions are relics.

On mars you have to manipulate your console saves to get all Lith or all Meso so I am aware partially how to change up the rewards.  I heard you can do this on Uranus and Lua to but I never tried...   I only do it on mars because there is no lith disruption where you can save all consoles... 

The reason I never tried the 1 console trick on Uranus and Lua is because I like trying to stop the demolysts,  I like going all out.

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Doing Lith's at Mars is much less stressful and fun though.   It is a little faster,  even more if you have some help.   You save the first console and can then just spam keys and not care until the end of the round.     I guess once you hit C there is no reason to keep trying to save them all.

Letting consoles fail in a public match though... I can promise you that a large part of the community wont have that knowledge of round rotations and when its safe to start letting consoles blow up.   Alot of people are going to get pissed and ditch your group.  When I run public, which is all i do,  half to most of the people cant stop demolysts to begin with...  Most of them are smart enough to not use the keys, but they are never around when you put down demolysts either.   

You would have to go on an information campaigne and teach people as you play.    "Hey we just locked in rot C,  now we only have to save 1 console per round'  over and over and over again.   Or if Rot A or B is better you say that... .   On mars I do run solo or if I forget I ask which relic the person is going after   Lith or Meso.   

===================

But like I said now you guys have me super curious whats in the other rotations...  

 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html   Control+F  Disruption

Ok...that is interesting...  Rot C is usually the same as Rot B except with extra junk that dilutes the pool.    AKA gauss parts in uranus,  lua lens/universal at Lua....    I like getting Lua Lens tho so probably wont change my habits there.. unless im farming for new relics specifically...  Neptune is the $$ disruption and there you absolutely want C rotation for more cash.....       Rot A's are all junk free.  Could get meso/neo from the other spots with less effort....

Uranus and Sedna are  Rot A = all Meso,   Rot B =all Neo   Rot C = Neo + junk

Lua is Rot A all neo,  Rot B all axi,   Rot C all axi + junk(lua lens not junk).   

Jupiter is trash at every level with mods mixed into every Rot...  

Mars Rot A-B all Lith,  Rot C all meso   no junk in any rot.  

Rotations didnt do jack to drop %'s of specific relics.  Like better shot at garuda relics if u do B over C or farm it from uranus or sedna so that doesnt factor in...  

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So for me... if im going after meso/neo I dont want any junk diluting the pool and possible wasting 5 mins of my life...  So I need to start doing Rot B....   AXI to if im desperate for relics..   now just gotta look up Rot mechanic.....   

ok so....

Rot A Just save 1 console the first 3 rounds.  Starting at round 4 its impossible to get Rot A (which on mars where you go after Lith, Rot B is all lith to..)

Rot B.. starting on round 4 you only need to save 1111111111    (this will keep you junk free)

Rot C starting on round 4 you only need to save 3333333333 (to go after extra junk like gauss/lua lens/medallions)

===========

I guess an important thing to note is that after round 4 its impossible to get Rot A rewards.   So if you wanna use the only save 1 console trick to farm meso/neo  you need to quit after 3 rounds and reset..  

Looks like Meso is impossible to farm in Rot B.....  so your stuck saving 3 consoles at mars or only doing 3 rounds at Sedna/Uranus.....   that kinda sucks..

 

[3mptylord]

Aye, seems like "why is B generally the better loot table over C?" is the stem of the issue here - especially since in public lobbies you'll get people with different objectives clashing over the core objective. 

[EinheriarJudith]

On 2022-04-10 at 7:06 AM, 3mptylord said:

Aye, seems like "why is B generally the better loot table over C?" is the stem of the issue here - especially since in public lobbies you'll get people with different objectives clashing over the core objective. 

this is the one reason i just solo in disruption unless its T5. i farm rotation B. 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 in this order. i wouldnt be able to do this in pubs. rotation C is also very annoying on lua especially when you are just farming relics and get a lens >.<.