Single-target weapons and overguard

[motorfirebox]

Tl;dr the addition of overguard is an opportunity to make single-target weapons more viable. The point of Eximus units is to be a relatively singular, high-value threat, and in a horde shooter like Warframe such targets are where single-target weapons should stand out. While the rest of the team deals AOE damage taking out the trash mobs, the guy with the bow/sniper/Lex Prime/whatever faces off against the Eximus and takes it out of the fight.

First we have to define what a single-target weapon is. For my purposes, I'm thinking of any ranged weapon that doesn't offer any AOE damage and has a low rate of fire (say 2.5 or less, in keeping with Hemorrhage/Internal Bleeding).

Making single-target weapons more effective against overguard could be accomplished in a number of ways. The simplest (and most boring) would be to simply directly buff the damage. More interesting, increase the bodypart multipliers, so single-target headshots take overguard down even faster.

Another option: I know nerfs aren't popular, but giving overguard a high amount of flat damage reduction—or even a hard DPS cap—against AOE and/or high-ROF weapons seems fair.

But however it's mechanically implemented, a renewed focus on high-value targets seems like a prime opportunity to make single-target weapons more useful.

[Tyreaus]

4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

First we have to define what a single-target weapon is. For my purposes, I'm thinking of any ranged weapon that doesn't offer any AOE damage and has a low rate of fire (say 2.5 or less, in keeping with Hemorrhage/Internal Bleeding).

I would say RoF would be inconsequential to "single-target-ness". For example, the Nataruk has a comparatively low rate of fire, but it can take out multiple targets pretty reliably via tree trunk sized arrows. _{Though I do feel that concept is probably a pretty good idea for how to buff single-target weapons in general, especially lower-RoF ones like semi-autos...} By contrast, Fulmin's full auto mode has a good RoF but it's accuracy means you're hitting just the one target unless your hand decides to have a seizure. So it may be cleaner to refer just to weapons without a listed AoE component as "single-target", and if such weapons with a low RoF need a buff over their high-RoF counterparts, that might be something to look at independently.

4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Another option: I know nerfs aren't popular, but giving overguard a high amount of flat damage reduction—or even a hard DPS cap—against AOE and/or high-ROF weapons seems fair.

This is what Guardian eximus are doing, according to the workshop, to be fair. I also wouldn't say it's a nerf. It's not a decrease in player power, it's an increase in enemy toughness - and on particular enemies, as well. It'd be one thing if everything got that sort of anti-AoE buff, but given the units are fairly rare, people are still going to get very, very good mileage for their investments in their Brammas. And I think that's the bigger reason for most people who are against nerfs. It's not so much about higher difficulty, but about invalidation of their investments.

And, I mean, if we started calling increases in enemy toughness 'nerfs', then we'd have to start calling endurance run 'nerf blasters', and I'm pretty sure there's a copyright suit waiting to happen there.

[sitfesz]

I like the base concept, but I'm afraid it's to simply make more operator play. Depends on the void damage multiplier on them, it could also make xata's whisper ability subsume more popular, however I feel like it won't change anything, except I will also use the operator for eximus overguards besides taking out nullifier bubbles.

There is no need to nerf high fire rate weapons. Those are still single-target weapons and the reason no one uses semi-auto weapons is that those are inefficient as you can manage target switching and overkill much better in high scaling range with high fire rate and slower reload. Semi weapons need something like spreading overkill damage to make them viable by being better against hordes, because I would not give my primary slot for a designated eximus killer weapon.

I think semi viability would also be better if the primary-secondary system would be changed into having any two weapons available in a loadout if their ammo type isn't the same. At least for bows and snipers, because non-scoped rifles would need more care.

[Lutesque]

8 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Tl;dr the addition of overguard is an opportunity to make single-target weapons more viable.

Am I the only who actually plays this Game.... 🤔

The game doesn't throw Single Targets at you.... It never has and it never will.... Enemies always Spawn in Groups....

One way or another you need a way of Actually dealing with Groups.... Otherwisewise modes like ESO and Survival and even Excavation just Simply do not Function....

 

[Berzerkules]

I get that you're trying to give relevance to single target weapons but nerfing the dps output of other types of weapons against a single type of enemy would suck.

It would create a situation where every loadout would have 1/3 of there weapons designated to deal with a single type of enemy. One of the reasons I play this game because we have potentially endless combinations of viable options to choose from that suit our play style. If I wanted to use slow firing single target weapons I would, but normally I don't. I'd rather keep playing my high fire rate beam weapons that apply mass status, my full auto bleed machines or something like a Kohm with a wall of bullets. I like my Kuva Chakkhurr too, but I don't want that to be the only primary I carry. 

[Venus-Venera]

yes. we need much more damage for single target. aoe is to much powerful. i can pimp tenet aoe against corpus STEEL PATH and it will deal AOE 1.200.000 damage!

single target has no place here. plx fix!

[Yamazuki]

Lack of popularity ≠ lack of viability. Single target weapons that aren't deliberately given low stats, because they're essentially starter weapons, and are modded correctly already 1-2 shot enemies without buffs from a Warframe. If people don't want to use a weapon class, they shouldn't be forced into it. The game doesn't actually force anyone into aoe weapon usage outside of ESO's needlessly strict efficiency bar.

For ranged damage, I already mostly use Assault Rifle style weapons, and I haven't felt penalized for my decision. I personally have no interest in forcing people into using my preferred ranged weapons, nor have I been negatively impact by the decision of others to use aoe instead.

[motorfirebox]

On 2022-04-22 at 3:23 AM, sitfesz said:

There is no need to nerf high fire rate weapons. Those are still single-target weapons and the reason no one uses semi-auto weapons is that those are inefficient as you can manage target switching and overkill much better in high scaling range with high fire rate and slower reload. Semi weapons need something like spreading overkill damage to make them viable by being better against hordes, because I would not give my primary slot for a designated eximus killer weapon.

Ehhh. I really don't like the idea of turning semi weapons into what would essentially be AOE weapons. Like I definitely get the joy of seeing a bunch of numbers fly out of a group of mobs (my main melee right now is Glaive Prime), but when I use a bow I want it to feel like a bow. I'd rather see Warframe incorporate gameplay that lends itself to different weapon types than just alter every weapon type to fit the existing gameplay.

[cute_moth.npc]

AoE damage reduction would be okay but I'm not really sure why you would consider high RoF weapons to be something to single out?