The impact AoE nerf could have

[Jarriaga]

30 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

extreme few but loud and spoiled

Do you think DE would be on record publicly recognizing player retention due to lack of appropriately-challenging content is a development concern to them if it was an extreme few? Don't you think they have data tracing when players stop engaging with their game in order to make that assessment? Why would they say they want to do something about it if that wasn't the case? 

This is why I say you are just burying your head in the sand. You continue to ignore DE's own words on the matter.

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Do you think DE would be on record publicly recognizing player retention due to lack of appropriately-challenging content is a development concern to them if it was an extreme few? Don't you think they have data tracing when players stop engaging with their game in order to make that assessment? Why would they say they want to do something about it if that wasn't the case? 

This is why I say you are just burying your head in the sand. You continue to ignore DE's own words on the matter.

DE are known to say or even do things to appease vocal minorities, in worst cases some YTubers or that one guy that plays conclave;-) When you look at retention charts it's quite obvious WF has problems with retaining new players. They are overwhelmed with immense ammount of things to do, and very little explanation in game. You need to consult wiki, yt and forum to find out how everything works. Those new players don't whine about wanting more difficulty, because they are struggling to survive Sedna. I was there. So probably were you. Now i'm rarely really challenged. Unless i want to be. When i do, i take one of the weapons/frames i maxed but haven't invested to, put some forma in and do SP. Solo survival with Endura and Quatz was really fun, without any AoE two shotting rooms keeping life support up was really a struggle. 

One thing i wouldn't mind is the possibility of choosing starting level of enemies on the mission, so i could ever see level cap enemies. I just don't have enough time to do many hours endurance runs... 

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

DE are known to say or even do things to appease vocal minorities, in worst cases some YTubers or that one guy that plays conclave

 DE have shown that even if it's 1 person, the request has to come from a place they are willing to compromise or be flexible at. If appeasing vocal minorities was the goal per se then the Xoris debacle wouldn't have happened and Rivens would not start at 0.5 disposition for new weapons. There's an Overton Window of things DE are willing to change.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

When you look at retention charts it's quite obvious WF has problems with retaining new players. They are overwhelmed with immense ammount of things to do, and very little explanation in game. You need to consult wiki, yt and forum to find out how everything works. Those new players don't whine about wanting more difficulty, because they are struggling to survive Sedna.

Both problems exist at the same time and both have different long-term effects. Those who leave because they feel overwhelmed at the very beginning don't take away from those who leave at the end because there's nothing that requires the level of the tools available to us. This is why many people point out WF's early game feels better.

In addition: I don't understand why the early game is even a part of the conversation when addressing WF's lack of endgame and appropriately-challenging content for the tools we have: New players should not be able to just hop-in into late-game content to begin with. There's a threshold in which content tiers can be separated by progression, as 95% of games with a constant progression = challenge system do. Otherwise the argument could be boiled down to "But new players can't do endgame content if it's too hard", which is an absurd oxymoron in concept.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

 I was there. So probably were you.

Which is why I and many people say WF's early-game felt better: The progression ==> challenge graph was significantly more engaging. Enemies felt like they were growing with you in consideration of your tools and your mods. Then there's a point in which they stop, making the game feel like you might as well be fighting wet tissue.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

Now i'm rarely really challenged. Unless i want to be. When i do, i take one of the weapons/frames i maxed but haven't invested to, put some forma in and do SP. Solo survival with Endura and Quatz was really fun, without any AoE two shotting rooms keeping life support up was really a struggle. 

As I posted in the first page: You might as well play with one hand while handing down from a rope if you need to create your own challenge because the developers have not created content that is appropriate for the tools they themselves have given you. There is nothing wrong with you personally challenging and handicapping yourself to improve your fun, but the game's design needs to accommodate what it offers in order to be deemed good game design. Tennet Weapons, Arcane Energize, Accumulating Whipclaw, Galvanized Mods, the ability to add 10 forma, Arquebex, they all fail miserably at justifying why they are needed. There isn't a single piece of content in which the basic completion level (Not endurance, not personal challenge, just getting to the exit), requires that level of power. That is a design flaw that on Reb's own words leads to boredom.

It's no coincidence that in their recent survey the powercreep question didn't have a "I like it/give me more" answer.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

One thing i wouldn't mind is the possibility of choosing starting level of enemies on the mission, so i could ever see level cap enemies. I just don't have enough time to do many hours endurance runs... 

Level cap enemies would change nothing:

1) Enemies were already nerfed to hell and back last year.

2) Armor bypass is still a thing.

3) Their tactics and ability to worn you out don't improve with enemy level, and the spawn rate is already capped.

4) You have infinite CC for enemies other than ability-immune enemies, which aren't that many.

5) You have infinite energy thanks to Arcane Energize/Hunter Adrenaline.

6) You can shut-down the AI altogether with abilities such as Resonator.

7) You can currently outdamage level-cap enemies by millions of damage, making the cap pointless to begin with.

This is not a problem of enemy stats. Even a level 100 enemy today would be a threat if our stats and tools as players were designed around ensuring a level 100 enemy is a struggle. In addition, mission structure as well is a factor for lack of challenge. Why don't enemies destroy life support pods if at level 200? Why aren't there enemies that can capture all 4 interception towers at once? You shouldn't need an endurance run to feel like the Galvanized mod you are using has a purpose. The basic design of the game mode per se should be designed around what players are expected to bring to it to ensure it is a challenge from the beginning.

[Surbusken]

I totally believe there is a player segment out there for scoreboards and challenges.

Whatever ruleset, disable CC and warframe healing or whatever, shouldn't be more than a notepad edit.

Then slap on a live scoreboard at some relay or some such place, it's not 13 years of animation work we are talking about here.

Aslong as they don't gate unique items behind 'elite' difficulty, I don't see why not give people something to strive for, especially clans and what not.

[Jarriaga]

43 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

Aslong as they don't gate unique items behind 'elite' difficulty

This mentality is why we don't have endgame content. I don't know of any other game community in which players want for the endgame to be easy as to not lock items behind it, or to make it optional with no important rewards so it can be ignored.

[----Legacy----]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

This mentality is why we don't have endgame content. I don't know of any other game community in which players want for the endgame to be easy as to not lock items behind it, or to make it optional with no important rewards so it can be ignored.

It's called "self entitlement". There's a vocal part of the warframe community that seems to be self entitled to get every single item in the game for little to no effort which will cry and throw tantrums at any piece of content they can't get, no matter how insignificant it is and will sometimes go as far as asking for the removal of parts of the game they dislike in order to get a free pass to its rewards.

[Surbusken]

8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

This mentality is why we don't have endgame content. I don't know of any other game community in which players want for the endgame to be easy as to not lock items behind it, or to make it optional with no important rewards so it can be ignored.

Same games that have a kick function, gear inspection and so on.

But yes I am a supporter of having multiple ways to farm the same items and all items being tradable. I also feel the intent from the developers is a horde-shooter with enemies in bunches aswell as it being rather casual - except for the grind, nothing is hardcore. Elitism doesn't belong in warframe, eidolon hunts is already stretching it.

So if you don't like railjack or don't like eidolon, k-drive racing or whatever, you still have access to the content.

I don't believe in phony metrics camping by gating items behind content. Content has to stand on its own.

 

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

I don't believe in phony metrics camping by gating items behind content. Content has to stand on its own.

Yet DE have taken a hard stance with it. You can not even buy Nataruk and the Archon weapons with plat until you complete TNW. The items don't show-up in the store.

That means even DE recognize some items should require some level of player competency by virtue of simple progression standards in which stage 5 is naturally harder than stage 3. There's nothing elitist about that.

[Surbusken]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Yet DE have taken a hard stance with it. You can not even buy Nataruk and the Archon weapons with plat until you complete TNW. The items don't show-up in the store.

That means even DE recognize some items should require some level of player competency by virtue of simple progression standards in which stage 5 is naturally harder than stage 3. There's nothing elitist about that.

Or that they are trying it out for the first time, out of desperation and are gathering metrics on the result now. lol.

"Elitism" refers to mostly angry people who can't have any power of any kind on any level typically from mmo games later moved into discord channels.

Kick function or vote kick, gear requirements really anything you can slap other people over the head with or use as a rage button falls under "elitism". Not really about players objective ability to play or familarity with the game, simple a bunch of people who aren't emotionally stable, looking for someone to blame who aren't "as great as me".

Twitter for example, is based on the same prinicple, a bunch of bitter people looking for the rage button.

... which is exactly what is right about warframe. The positive and kind community where there is room for a mr 5 on a sortie and no one starts raging.

Try installing a vote kick function in-game and see what happens.

[DreisterDino]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Jarriaga:

This mentality is why we don't have endgame content. I don't know of any other game community in which players want for the endgame to be easy as to not lock items behind it, or to make it optional with no important rewards so it can be ignored.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ----Legacy----:

It's called "self entitlement". There's a vocal part of the warframe community that seems to be self entitled to get every single item in the game for little to no effort which will cry and throw tantrums at any piece of content they can't get, no matter how insignificant it is and will sometimes go as far as asking for the removal of parts of the game they dislike in order to get a free pass to its rewards.

Dont forget that even Raids (defined as an activity for a group of players with high difficulty and good rewards) should be solo-able in Warframe aswell 😉

 

I never experienced this kind of mindset in any other game before, and i dont agree with it. In every other game i know the players simply accept that if they want to get the best items in the game, there will be some kind of difficulty to get those items, and/or that they have to work together with other players if they want to do Raids or certain Bosses. But god forbid this happens in Warframe. Its the same with clan related stuff - you sometimes read that clans shouldnt have anything that couldnt be done alone or that solo-clans should always be considered. But the term Solo-Clan is already a contradiction in itself, and its funny that when you google that, the first page mostly links to Warframe^^.

 

Anyway, people who make these claims most likely are a minority, at least thats what the last survey suggests regarding the answers for co-op gameplay and difficulty.

And i would be surprised if the results for the recent Survey are any different.

[Darkduprey]

Il y a 19 heures, George_PPS a dit :

Just added no. 6 Equip a Dragon Key. All please feel free to add your suggestions if you have any new ideas. Some veterans are spoiled and want everything to be nerfed to spoil the fun for newer players. 

Yeah nice work champion.

With how the game currently works, equiping a Dragon Key can actually be a BUFF to many builds that abuse shield gating.

Keep it up, you sure sound more and more convincing with every new idea. Lol.

 

Il y a 3 heures, Surbusken a dit :

"Elitism" refers to mostly angry people who can't have any power of any kind on any level typically from mmo games later moved into discord channels.

Kick function or vote kick, gear requirements really anything you can slap other people over the head with or use as a rage button falls under "elitism". Not really about players objective ability to play or familarity with the game, simple a bunch of people who aren't emotionally stable, looking for someone to blame who aren't "as great as me".

No, that has almost nothing to do with the definition of elitism, the only part that is partially right is your very last statement and even that is imprecise.

What you are talking about is a funny definition that the casual playerbase developped over the years because apparently the word "Elitist" sounded better than "Toxic" so they decided for some random reason to call toxic people "elitist".

To this day I'm still trying to understand what's the point of not using the right word for this type person but oh, well, if that gets your fantaisy going, more power to you I suppose.

Gear check or kick function are not elitist, they are tools to let people chose who they want to play with or not.

Now the subtle but very important difference is that the REASON for using them are very different from what makes you an "elitist". An elitist only wants to play with the best of the best and to be the best of the best.

Kicking people because you don't like something about them, or because of some gear check that any serious player will know means close to nothing, doesn't make you an elitist: It just makes you toxic.

Elitists in this kind of game are playing in the best guild/clans/whatever equivalent and almost exclusively playing with their guildmates. You most likely don't know any of them because you do not encounter them in public plays. And well they don't use vote kick or gear check because it's a guild.

The randoms playing public games and using a kick button are not elite nor elitist.

Well, then again I'm probably talking too much for such a detail. 

[Monolake]

This nonsense again... if you have to gimp yourself in a game about progress and levelling up to get any gameplay - that already screams the game is broken and badly needs rebalancing.

And saying 'you have to play solo' in a coop game where reward chance is tied to number of players is even more damning to the state of the game.

As good of an advice as "just dont play it" - which most people end up doing cause the game is broken and boring and the new content is too sparse  - player retention is bad and number of active players only dropped in last years.

 

[Lutesque]

On 2022-02-07 at 4:46 PM, Jarriaga said:

Reb is publicly on record admitting player retention due to lack of challenging content is a concern to DE. That video is linked with timestamps in page 2.

If that was actually True then Why is Steel Path a Ghost Town ?

Me Think Mommy needs to Reevaluate That Data more Closely....

23 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Do you think DE would be on record publicly recognizing player retention due to lack of appropriately-challenging content is a development concern to them if it was an extreme few? Don't you think they have data tracing when players stop engaging with their game in order to make that assessment? Why would they say they want to do something about it if that wasn't the case? 

It's Not The Case... No matter which way you Slice it... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

It's Easier to Find people playing Fissures than it is to Find people doing The "Challenging" Content...

Which makes perfect sense.... DE's Definition of Challenge is Invalidating Previously Established Game Play Mechanics....

Turns out that's a real turn off for alot of people...

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

This is why many people point out WF's early game feels better.

How would They Know ? 🤔

It's easy to think something is better in Hindsight but the only Oppinion that matters is the one from the players who are actually new.... And they can't say it's better because they have no previous experience to Compare it to... 👀

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

New players should not be able to just hop-in into late-game content to begin with.

And they wouldn't need to if all the useful Stuff wasn't Locked behind that same content ...

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Which is why I and many people say WF's early-game felt better: The progression ==> challenge graph was significantly more engaging. Enemies felt like they were growing with you in consideration of your tools and your mods. Then there's a point in which they stop, making the game feel like you might as well be fighting wet tissue.

I'm tempted to create a new Account to see if this is Actually True... 🤔

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

As I posted in the first page: You might as well play with one hand while handing down from a rope if you need to create your own challenge because the developers have not created content that is appropriate for the tools they themselves have given you.

You can't make the Tool argument if you're not actually using the tools meant to Give you a Challenge....

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

but the game's design needs to accommodate what it offers in order to be deemed good game design.

It Does... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Tennet Weapons, Arcane Energize, Accumulating Whipclaw, Galvanized Mods, the ability to add 10 forma, Arquebex, they all fail miserably at justifying why they are needed.

Then Don't Use Them.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 

It's no coincidence that in their recent survey the powercreep question didn't have a "I like it/give me more" answer.

I think it did... 🤔

Otherwise the survey would have been pointless....

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 

5) You have infinite energy thanks to Arcane Energize/Hunter Adrenaline.

Hunter Adrenaline is not a thing in Level Cap Runs.... 🤔

And I use Arcane Energize myself.... It's Definitely Not Infinite... 👀

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 

4) You have infinite CC for enemies other than ability-immune enemies, which aren't that many.

There doesn't need to be many....one is enough in most cases.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Why don't enemies destroy life support pods if at level 200?

They Do.... It's called Mobile Defense.... 😝

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Why aren't there enemies that can capture all 4 interception towers at once?

Because Booben is only 1 out 48 Warframe's... And just like you said... The content needs to be designed around the Tools that exist.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

20 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

You shouldn't need an endurance run to feel like the Galvanized mod you are using has a purpose.

I don't use them.... 👀

What's your Excuse.... ?

18 hours ago, Surbusken said:

 

Aslong as they don't gate unique items behind 'elite' difficulty, I don't see why not give people something to strive for, especially clans and what not.

Unfortunately the people who claim they want a Challenge aren't going to bother unless there's an exclusive "Unique Item" for doing that challenge....

In my Oppinion that means they clearly don't want a Challenge....

17 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

This mentality is why we don't have endgame content. I don't know of any other game community in which players want for the endgame to be easy as to not lock items behind it, or to make it optional with no important rewards so it can be ignored.

That's probably True.... But the actual Games themselves aren't Designed That Way For Obvious Reasons....

17 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It's called "self entitlement". There's a vocal part of the warframe community that seems to be self entitled to get every single item in the game for little to no effort which will cry and throw tantrums at any piece of content they can't get, no matter how insignificant it is and will sometimes go as far as asking for the removal of parts of the game they dislike in order to get a free pass to its rewards.

Call whatever you like... It's never going to happen.... Again..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

17 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Yet DE have taken a hard stance with it. You can not even buy Nataruk and the Archon weapons with plat until you complete TNW. The items don't show-up in the store.

What does that have to Do With Hard Content ? 

Whatever DE's stance was for those Items are... Challenge has nothing to do with it.... 👀

17 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 

That means even DE recognize some items should require some level of player competency by virtue of simple progression standards in which stage 5 is naturally harder than stage 3. There's nothing elitist about that.

Yeah I think you're reading into that something that isn't there.... 👀

The New War is just a Cinematic Quest.... Not some competency Test.... That's what MR Tests are for.... And we Cheese Those Anyway....

15 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

 

Anyway, people who make these claims most likely are a minority, at least thats what the last survey suggests regarding the answers for co-op gameplay and difficulty.

What does me wanting to play with Other people have to do with Clan Requirements being Reasonable for Solo Clan's ? 🤔

Your Connecting Phantom Dots that have nothing to do with Each Other....

My answer in that Survey was for More Co-Op but I damn sure don't want more Crap like The Hema.... Or Thermia Fractures which basically just The Hema Scaled Up to encompass The Entire Community.... 

14 hours ago, Darkduprey said:

Yeah nice work champion.

With how the game currently works, equiping a Dragon Key can actually be a BUFF to many builds that abuse shield gating.

Keep it up, you sure sound more and more convincing with every new idea. Lol.

Then don't Wear That Key... Or better yet... Wear that Key but also Equip Redirection.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

14 hours ago, Darkduprey said:

What you are talking about is a funny definition that the casual playerbase developped over the years because apparently the word "Elitist" sounded better than "Toxic" so they decided for some random reason to call toxic people "elitist".

Same Difference... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

14 hours ago, Darkduprey said:

Now the subtle but very important difference is that the REASON for using them are very different from what makes you an "elitist". An elitist only wants to play with the best of the best and to be the best of the best.

Kicking people because you don't like something about them, or because of some gear check that any serious player will know means close to nothing, doesn't make you an elitist: It just makes you toxic.

Again.... Same Difference... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

11 hours ago, Monolake said:

This nonsense again... if you have to gimp yourself in a game about progress and levelling up to get any gameplay - that already screams the game is broken and badly needs rebalancing.

Warframe Definitely Needs Rebalancing.... Just not by the people who Constantly say so.... Since they have no Concept of what Balance is.... They just want to Nerf AoE into The Dirt because they're Tired of Seeing Explosions Everywhere... 👀

12 hours ago, Monolake said:

 

As good of an advice as "just dont play it" - which most people end up doing cause the game is broken and boring and the new content is too sparse  - player retention is bad and number of active players only dropped in last years.

Where are you getting your Stats ? 🤔

[Surbusken]

15 hours ago, Darkduprey said:

...

Sorry to say but you got some catching/reading up to do.

Elitism is another word for "lamer who is emotionally unstable", where it surfaces when you allow them any kind of authority/power/influence, such as discord channel "officers" and forum admin etc. Or a vote kick function. Gameplay features in and of themselves aren't guilty of anything or have an innate problem.

Just people with low impulse control and are bitter can't be allowed around them is all.

But google video game elitism and and read up.

What you were talking about is the 'difficulty setting on elite' in video games, which is something completely different altogether. That's a completely different topic.

 

The point in case is warframe is relatively relaxed, peaceful and friendly... by design. Which is one of the major strengths of the game.

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Elitist
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Video Game Elitist
https://massivelyop.com/2019/07/08/not-so-massively-gaming-genre-elitism-isnt-a-good-look-on-anyone/
https://igamesnews.com/news/post-my-elitism-and-misplaced-ego-spoiled-my-games-news/

[Darkduprey]

il y a 57 minutes, Surbusken a dit :

Sorry to say but you got some catching/reading up to do.

Elitism is another word for "lamer who is emotionally unstable",

No lol it's not.

 

il y a 57 minutes, Surbusken a dit :

But google video game elitism and and read up.

See that's kinda my point.

I'd have to Google "video game elitism" because if I just Google "elitism" I'd never find similar results. I'd find something much closer to what I said in my post.

Part of the gaming community uses this word in a way that have nothing to do with the original meaning.

Instead of using words that already exist to describe what they are trying to say in the first place. I guess they feel like this one just sounds better?

An other funny detail is that I have only seen this weird usage of this word from English speakers.

[Surbusken]

7 minutes ago, Darkduprey said:

No lol it's not.

 

See that's kinda my point.

I'd have to Google "video game elitism" because if I just Google "elitism" I'd never find similar results. I'd find something much closer to what I said in my post.

Part of the gaming community uses this word in a way that have nothing to do with the original meaning.

Instead of using words that already exist to describe what they are trying to say in the first place. I guess they feel like this one just sounds better?

An other funny detail is that I have only seen this weird usage of this word from English speakers.

Are you saying we aren't debating video games, warframe isn't a game, we aren't talking about players in a video game?

That seems rather desperate on your part... but yeah now you know what it means, you are welcome.

[Darkduprey]

il y a 39 minutes, Surbusken a dit :

Are you saying we aren't debating video games, warframe isn't a game, we aren't talking about players in a video game?

No, I'm basically saying we don't need to take words and randomly change their meanings because we are gamers so apparently we need to rework definitions.

[Surbusken]

1 hour ago, Darkduprey said:

No, I'm basically saying we don't need to take words and randomly change their meanings because we are gamers so apparently we need to rework definitions.

So if we are debeating a video game what's the excuse again

[Jarriaga]

22 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

So if we are debeating a video game what's the excuse again

I agree with him. If "Workplace elitism" and "race car elitism" have very similar meanings that don't change significantly because of the location of the elitist action I don't see a reason why "video game elitism" must have a meaning that is completely divorced from similar expressions.

If some words have completely different meanings only for a certain subculture that makes it understandable only within said subculture then they are making-up the meaning as they go by bastardizing the shared/common meaning beyond recognition.

[Surbusken]

3 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I agree with him. If "Workplace elitism" and "sports team elitism" have very similar meanings that don't change significantly because of the location of the elitist action I don't see a reason why "video game elitism" must have a meaning that is completely divorced from similar expressions.

If the use of certain words have completely different meaning only for a certain subculture that is understandable only within said subculture then they are making-up the meaning as they go while the shared/common meaning is disregarded beyond recognition.

Because we are debating... a video game? lol.

I understand it's upsetting to you guys and you'd like to wiggle out of it, but it's been common knowledge for 25 years or so, it's not an opinion it just is.

Maybe if you are young or haven't played video games online you are off the hook.

[----Legacy----]

6 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

Because we are debating... a video game? lol.

I understand it's upsetting to you guys and you'd like to wiggle out of it, but it's been common knowledge for 25 years or so, it's not an opinion it just is.

Maybe if you are young or haven't played video games online you are off the hook.

Or maybe you're just adding adjectives in front of the term in am attempt to move goalposts and keep them safe after these have already been taken down.

[Jarriaga]

20 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

Because we are debating... a video game? lol.

I understand it's upsetting to you guys and you'd like to wiggle out of it, but it's been common knowledge for 25 years or so, it's not an opinion it just is.

Maybe if you are young or haven't played video games online you are off the hook.

I'm 32 and have been playing games since the Mega Drive and Super NES days. It's the first time in my life I've seen the term "video game elitism" to mean something that involves services that are significantly more recent (Discord) than the "No Items, Fox only, Final Destination" usage that is significantly closer to the usage of "elitism" in any other context.

Discord didn't exist 15 years ago. Video game elitism did.

[Surbusken]

5 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Or maybe you're just adding adjectives in front of the term in am attempt to move goalposts and keep them safe after these have already been taken down.

I'd say it's the opposite, wouldn't you?

If you go back and check the posts I explained it, in detail, right off the bat, in several posts... including various examples - in relation to the points I was making.

The people who moved the goalpost is people saying I thought we were talking political science !!!!1

Which no, they didn't. Because again I had layed it out, in great detail 500 times already.

It's exclusively about people getting over their own ego and I came off as the badguy because they think I am degrading them but I only explained it, it can't possibly be my fault they didn't know anything about it.

From my perspective I did them a favor, they just learned something new.

 

Not that it makes any difference in relation to the point. Warframe is down to earth, on purpose, and that's what is right about warframe. Positive atomsphere with helpful people is the result of that, was the point in question.

 

[----Legacy----]

2 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

I'd say it's the opposite, wouldn't you?

If you go back and check the posts I explained it, in detail, right off the bat, in several posts... including various examples - in relation to the points I was making.

The people who moved the goalpost is people saying I thought we were talking political science !!!!1

I saw those posts, the elitism term popped up, got taken down and then you tried narrowing the discussion by moving the focus to "gaming elitism" instead since such move would help you to rebuild your point from a safe spot, which is called "moving goalposts".

[Surbusken]

Just now, ----Legacy---- said:

I saw those posts, the elitism term popped up, got taken down and then you tried narrowing the discussion by moving the focus to "gaming elitism" instead since such move would help you to rebuild your point from a safe spot, which is called "moving goalposts".

I think you got the posts confused.

I am the one out here explained it to people - I guess including you. Until I showed up there was no goalpost, grass or even stadium.

It's obviously assumed you understand the conversation initially - especially when it's mentioned along side examples. Then, after you got the links, study up and move on.

Everything past that is just people who can't handle it, which ironically ties directly back into the point.

 

If I had started this conversation on a discord server you were mod on or in a game with vote-kick, I mean you know it.