AoE Changes - subtle but impactful? [post Devstream discussion]

[Dunkelheit]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PSN)rexis12:

Because I want to Use [X] Frame, presumably for quite a long time.

How do I get [X] Frame?

Most of them time with playing the same level over and over and over again.

Taking up so much time that I can get bored of the game, before I get to 'enjoy' the gameplay.

Because If I have to play Onslaught for more than 12 hours just for a guarenteed drop to play with a Frame that I might not even like because getting her takes so much time, which is made easier with the big boom weapons that people hate so much.

I played Kuva Survival, staying at 25 minutes from January for almost every day and I only got Harrow at the middle of August. All because I wanted to engage with the game.

Well too bad because to engage with the game I have to grind. And I'd rather want the grind to end sooner than later.

 

One question: Which Onslaught do you need to play for more than 12 hours?

I have another tip for you:
Why not play the game like you want to right now, selling the stuff you earn and farming the plat and buy those Warframes with plat? You always seem to forget about this choice. I did the same with Hespar, because I could not stand the Armageddon grind. Not because the grind was too hard or too long, but it was way too easy and I got bored in the first 5 minutes of it.
Or even better, you farm Harrow Prime or Khora Prime and be done a lot sooner. But this is exactly what I adressed in the other posting directed to you: You exaggerate, pick the weirdest and hardest grind and try justify a bad design decision. This shows that you are using dummy arguments to try to get your point across. Instead you should put that energy into adressing the problem of the Harrow farm or the Khora farm. And I would be with you all the way till the end.

Instead you try to use Strawmans arguments to get your way to stay on a very oppressive and disruptive gameplay.

I admit that Khora and Harrow can be a hard grind, I did those twice, Ash is very bad as well, but in the end, there are always the Prime versions. And there are 49 Warframes in the game, I doubt that you need that one frame, because there is no other frame for you. And if you found a frame that you like, play that other frame to get your dream frame.

And on a sidenote, since I already caught you overexaggerating to get your point across, I doubt that you needed 215 tries to get Harrow. It is theoretically possible, but I highly doubt it.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

22 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

I think you and me, we are not playing the same game. Because a gold drop is at a 30% chance when you run it with 3 other people. You can find those people in Warframes channels. They go like <LF [insert relic here] RAD 1/4>. RAD means, you want to run the relic radiant (pumped to the max).

If a Prime release happens, you can prepare:
Fill the syndicates to the max and collect a lot of their medaillons, Steel Essence. You do this, because you can buy relics with Steel Essence or Syndicate Affinity. Once you have bought all relics, fill your affinity again with the Medaillons that you can find on Syndicate missions.
I do this regularly and I have, most of the time, all items from the Prime release in 2-3 hours. If you have enough void traces, you can now radshare the gold drops that you need. Chances are, you will have your gold drop in max 3-4 runs. Yeah, sometimes you need 8 runs, but there will be times when you have it in the first one.

The one thing that irks me with guys like you: Why do you feel the need to exaggerate the problem? Like your 1% Chance in a normal relic? And what do you mean it only lasts one hour? What lasts one hour? Hopefully you are not talking about the fissure, because you know that they just change, not end, right? Do you expect Pablo or Reb to read your posting, have an ugly cry breakout and change everything in the game so that you will have your stuff faster? Everyone who plays the game for like 50 hours knows that you are exaggerating and it invalidates your whole posting. Don't do that, for your own sake.

You make the mistake that you discuss to be right, but a discussion is there to get things right. And so many people in this forum wanted the AOE meta nerfed, because it is oppressive and disruptive for everyone involved, there might be a point behind it. I am guilty of using the Bramma myself. A clanmate told me yesterday that the game is so easy, with Bramma or no Bramma. Then I invited him to solo SP Void Cascade without an AOE weapon and a frame of his choice. He did not finish the mission once. Well, of course this is possible and many here will do it with a hand tight behind their backs, but it actually feels like a challenge and you might start to sweat while doing it. It is so much fun to find a good team and do this stuff together while synergizing weapons and Warframes. Now I am a Bramma user, but I am looking forward to the time when I can finally wield another weapon or go melee again without feelin inadequate and getting no kills. So I think in the end, we will all win.

You might be very oldbie L2 and forget how terrible AABC grinding was, and you don't need to be effective. That's why you are talking about only relic run and Zariman.

Bramma is one of  meta AOE but it can't kill strong enemy in some level because its firerate is not good. So we use primary,secondary,melees together.

If somebody use only luncher, it's because he doesn't have enough resouces and focus on into one weapon. 

It's kinda techtree from MKskana- zoris - Ignis Wraith - Kuva luncher. Then, he can grind resources and primes on daily and weekly homework by himself effectively.

We can enjoy Warframe only after we collect warframes. weapons, and companions. 

[SenorClipClop]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

Warframe is more like Hack&Slash RPG with 3rd person view  rather than gun game like Destiny or Division.

Our first warframe is Excalibur who is a sword man. Our first weapon is MK-Skana. 

Why do you think Warframe must be a normal shooter genre? 

I'm confused. Why are you on about melee now when your thread is about defending AoE?

Anyway, game's changing for the healthier. If you miss a video game that accomplishes goals with the ease of shooting your own feet the whole time, there are a ton of mobile games that fit that fantasy.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

Just now, SenorClipClop said:

I'm confused. Why are you on about melee now when your thread is about defending AoE?

Anyway, game's changing for the healthier. If you miss a video game that accomplishes goals with the ease of shooting your own feet the whole time, there are a ton of mobile games that fit that fantasy.

This is about your saying about aim

[Dunkelheit]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb (PSN)rexis12:

So grind.

So grind again, but this time on the hard mode.

Lmao, just rely on the luck of randoms to make the grind easier.

Great advice, just make sure you log in and you have the right exact people to do that S#&amp;&#036;.

Ah reminds me of the time when I offered an Octavia BP Rad share, even saying that I had like 5 of them at Rad because I did a bunch of random Lith Relics a few weeks back and got absolutely nonresponse whatsoever because people were too busy with the new Shiny Prime that I didn't have the relics for.

So just rely on the random luck of the people online, thanks buddy. Real good advice.

Want me to say just get lucky at a casino to?

Oh sorry 2% on a gold drop, don't want to skew results because of a 1% difference in percentage now would I?

Yes, gold drops are 2% you increase those chances by doing void relics to get traces, that again you have to repeatedly do.

Hence even more grind.

For whatever fissure that I would like to play. Not even for speed, but for enjoyment.

You know what Fissures that I often like doing? Exterminate and Sabotage, because I like those missions they feel fun.

I mean considering how everyone keeps crying about AoE and it got them to make the game slower, who knows I might just be lucky enough to do so.

But clearly my own feeling of fun, and lack of luck, and lack of chance for me to get the things you've already gotten means that what I want to do is worthless.

So I'm glad that you managed to get your Prime Warframe since every person at that time was doing those missions 24/7 none stop.

Meanwhile, I'll just wait in my Orbiter waiting for people who wants to do any Astilla Barrel Relic Cracking (Spoiler, no one does because that's not the shiny thing right now)

 

I am sorry that I was not able to get my point across. Since I think we cannot get it right, I drop out of the discussion. Good luck in Warframe!

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Just ignore people with less than 5 years in the game. These people complain about every change that does not favor them and they do not know how to adapt to a more balanced game.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon:

You might be very oldbie L2 and forget how terrible AABC grinding was, and you don't need to be effective. That's why you are talking about only relic run and Zariman.

Bramma is one of  meta AOE but it can't kill strong enemy in some level because its firerate is not good. So we use primary,secondary,melees together.

If somebody use only luncher, it's because he doesn't have enough resouces and focus on into one weapon. 

It's kinda techtree from MKskana- zoris - Ignis Wraith - Kuva luncher. Then, he can grind resources and primes on daily and weekly homework by himself effectively.

We can enjoy Warframe only after we collect warframes. weapons, and companions. 

Weird, because I enjoyed Warframe from Day 1.

And Bramma can kill everything in the games normal missions. Even Steel Path is no match. Only endless missions after a long time can pose problems for it. I play in an alliance and we just talk, run missions and have fun. If the game would feel terrible at one point, I would just buy the weapon with plat. I did it exactly 2 times in 9 years.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, Dunkelheit said:

Which Onslaught do you need to play for more than 12 hours

Here's something you may not know, but time can be added up and the time spent in Onslaught can be added up to have more time what you spend in individual missions.

Just now, Dunkelheit said:

Why not play the game like you want to right now, selling the stuff you earn and farming the plat and buy those Warframes with plat

Lmao are you serious?

"These people just don't want to play the game"

"Bypass the game entirely and just use the premium currency."

Lmao wow, great argument for saying that people should interact with the game only to just say to not interact with the game.

Hear that people just #*!%ing BUY what you want with the plat, who cares if DE make the grind literally so frustrating like Nidus, Khora or Ash being stand out examples, that have less than zero respect for your time meaning that in the future they can further justify even longer grinds because 'You can just buy them with plat'.

2 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Or even better, you farm Harrow Prime or Khora Prime and be done a lot sooner

BIGGER LOL.

Farm the random chance to get relics for the random chance to get their drops, with an even bigger spread of their drops where the amount is even limited by what you can gather with your grind.

Just keep grinding and grinding and grinding man.

Like do you even hear what your saying.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 1 Minute schrieb CosoMalvadoNG:

Just ignore people with less than 5 years in the game. These people complain about every change that does not favor them and they do not know how to adapt to a more balanced game.

Have my like, Sir. I am out. I don't want to run into Strawmans arguments for hours. I already have too much of this with my daughter :D

[SenorClipClop]

We all know that players use their AoE Kuva weapons in every situation, even when there's only one enemy in a room. The meta weapons have no weakness and provide the benefit of essentially a 12-meter hitbox. Don't try and hide behind the hordes argument when it's abundantly clear that people have never used these weapons just for hordes.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

2 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Weird, because I enjoyed Warframe from Day 1.

And Bramma can kill everything in the games normal missions. Even Steel Path is no match. Only endless missions after a long time can pose problems for it. I play in an alliance and we just talk, run missions and have fun. If the game would feel terrible at one point, I would just buy the weapon with plat. I did it exactly 2 times in 9 years.

Just ignore these people, they haven't seen the game change as much as we have, they are people who complain with every change so i repeat myself,  just ignore them.

The thing is, the change is because the developers have decided it's not healthy for their game and the update will come whether these people cry or not.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

if ammo changes or "line of sight" mischief are completely wrong. you can switch back to secondary.

Why do people keep bringing up LoS? It will not be a change we are getting.

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

3 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

Weird, because I enjoyed Warframe from Day 1.

 

Kinda common reaction about nerf which depends on when he began Warframe because Warframe has been different game by time-slot.

In my case, Warframe is typical and revolutionary 3D (not quartar view) hack&slash with excalibur, MKskana when I began this game last year. And getting Kuva luncher was the first big goal and success. That cannon is ok because this game has been mass murder game.

 But in your case, Warframe must be a different game from mine, I respect that point, but oldbies can't enforce the old point of view to all users. You can do your play in solo or your clan instead that asking nerf.

 

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

16 hours ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

1- youre assuming when i play warframe all i do is spamming aoe weapons , thats not true and although theres nothing wrong with that its just youre making false equilavancy of 'someone defends something so they must be doing themselves that all the time' 
If i really like the niche effect of a single target i'll play it but like most of the time i bring whatevers needed for the mission and not losing my mind on if i upset the single target master race overlords in wf forums ..

2- i have no objection against DE's newly adopted philosophy of lets make the game more interactive , the problem is the game is still very easy AND  a number game at its core and unless they change that this approach could maybe salvage latest contents they make , a new player is still subjected to braindead grineer behaviour with their hit scan missiles 
so the problem is a bit nuanced

3- The truth is the advertisement of warframe for i dont know 5 plus years was that you can be very fast and have super space ninja powers in space or just powerful in general , the time when DE's reveneu popped was at the start of their first open world , not before when you guys had dark sectors with corridor shooter , some vets love it but the truth is power creep draws in f* ton of players cuz not much games give you this amount of power while maintaning  a 3d action game status , so youre wrong on that simply 

welp , i couldve kept my response a bit shorter , i really dont like giving long responses to bad faith arguers but there you have it i guess have fun

1:  I can only go off of what i've seen from you since I do not know you personally.  The extremist perspective you present only logically makes sense to be held if you either a) have a very vested interest in said grouping of weapons or b) you are ignorant.  Those are the only two scenarios I can imagine where someone would seriously believe that AoE is going to be so harshly adjusted that it will no longer be a viable option.  If that is not actually you're stance then you should present yourself better.  Because saying things like "lets not kill the choice in the frigin game" certainly comes off as you stating that.

 

2: This point makes no sense because the changes being made are not targeted at making enemies themselves more interesting and fun to interact with.  Nor are they system wide changes to change WF's formulaic nature from solving a puzzle to gameplay that involves heavy mechanical skill.  The goal is to make AoE weapons on their own less effective.  However as i've pointed out twice already because this change is shipping along side a giant nerf to armor unless DE also stealth buffs enemy HP values the only thing that's changing for chad AoE players is having to armor strip first.  Which at most will need 2 casts in a vast majority of situations and you will not need to heavily invest into strength to make that happen.

 

3: Reining in AoE to a reasonable degree does not change that at all.  My point about advertisement doesn't literally mean what DE shows people.  What I mean is whenever WF drops a significant content release Youtube gets flooded with WF videos from dedicated WF players that will show off the game's sore points usually unintentionally.  And one of WF's only sins with actual gameplay (as there are very few) is how easy and effective it is to turn the game into a point and click simulator.  That's not entertaining to watch.  Nor is it something people would usually want to opt to do once they reach the peak of the game.  But many end up doing so because it's the most effective route to get to things they want.  DE wanting to change that is perfectly fine.

16 hours ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

So we play different game in Warframe.

I feel shotgun is annoying against game controller stick. I don't give endo to shotgun mods. 

This is why we have different opinion.

My usual weapons loadout is a bow primary, my tombfinger kit gun, and a katana zaw.  If i'm playing on Gauss it's usually the fulmin since it has both a full auto mode as well as a shotgun mode.  I used to religiously use Tigris prime and Vacor hek when I was a lower MR but shotguns as a whole outside the tenat plasmor have fallen off pretty hard.  For me it's less about enjoying shotguns as a weapon in the game and more I like punch through as a weapon characteristic and Shotguns are the most known for it outside of bows.

14 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Not to mention we have shard system to modify the base stat (not yet confirm) of each warframe. If true, I think that is the most important changes in the upcoming update.

You can min-max your frame to ridiculous level, or you can supplement the weakness of your frame and make it more balance. You may even drop one or two compulsory mods for more varieties. Imagine the endless possibilities with focus 3.0 and Zariman arcanes, people will be studying this system and making new build concepts for years to come.

This is just like 2 months since Reb and Pablo taking the steering wheel, and some people complain about DE team 2.0. Jesus.

I didn't include the shard system in my points because I can't imagine getting one shard is going to have a huge impact on most frame's gameplay.  Once enough time has passed to where 5 shards are reasonable for people to have then yeah i'd say it's fair to include them in builds.  Most people at this point should have Arcanes, focus, and subsume being used to some degree.  So the change to the armor system should be immediately felt by most players.

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

Kinda common reaction about nerf which depends on when he began Warframe because Warframe has been different game by time-slot.

In my case, Warframe is typical and revolutionary 3D (not quartar view) hack&slash with excalibur, MKskana when I began this game last year. And getting Kuva luncher was the first big goal and success. That cannon is ok because this game has been mass murder game.

 But in your case, Warframe must be a different game from mine, I respect that point, but oldbies can't enforce the old point of view to all users. You can do your play in solo or your clan instead that asking nerf.

 

 

When you started is less relevant to the point of players locking others out of playing the game to begin with.

The only real difference between new and old players being that players who have years in the game already know that DE have nerfed for that kind of thing in the past.
 

[(XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

When you started is less relevant to the point of players locking others out of playing the game to begin with.

The only real difference between new and old players being that players who have years in the game already know that DE have nerfed for that kind of thing in the past.
 

Do you really think so? 

If somebody already has everything, he likes to play slow and try to find new strategy and doesn't need to follow meta.

But if somebody needs to grind and loot fast, he has no choice but following meta and repeating as fast as possible. Adding a new item is fun itself and gives him an opportunity of variety.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

Do you really think so? 

Yes, I do.

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

If somebody already has everything, he likes to play slow and try to find new strategy and doesn't need to follow meta.

Which isn't relevant to your assertion or my comment on the matter.
The difference between long-time and new players is that the long-time players won't be surprised by the announcement.
 

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

But if somebody needs to grind and loot fast, he has no choice but following meta and repeating as fast as possible. Adding a new item is fun itself and gives him an opportunity of variety.

Asserting that you need to carpet bomb whole rooms in Co-Op for purposes of grinding faster (and at other's expense) is simply false and a large part of why AOE is being changed.

DE breaks Metas.  It's what they've done routinely for years now.

[_LotusPrime_]

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

I cannot fathom why you think people would want to skip the mindless endless grind just to get to the fun gameplay bits of new Frames or weapons.

Like do you think we can get that Warframe with advance mechanics by playing just a couple times. No, if I want to get Nidus I have to deal with #*!%in' Infested Salvage for a chance on the C Rotation, and I have to do that over and over and over and over and over and over again.

I didn't optimise the Ropalotyst Boss fight because I was a meta slave, I did it because Wisp a very appealing Frame based on her mechanics and design was locked behind that boss that I have to run 4 fours at a MINIMUM, to get her build and even then I still have to wait three #*!%in days before I get to even use her.

I didn't make a boom and zoom loadout because I was a meta slave, it was because the Prime Frame that I wanted was locked behind a 1% Chance in a normal Relic and the only way to get Void traces to improve the chances is to do more Relic Cracking. Running it multiple times is quite literally the only way to do it without paying for it, and they only last one hour.

Like I want to interact with the game, you know with the Frames and Weapons and S#&amp;&#036;. Epitath is a neat primer weapon that requires repeated runs with the Railjacks Void Storm, Sevagoth is a super cool frame that also needs me to repeatedly run Void Storms.

All locked behind the same mindless grind for a chance to just get something.

Well Said and nice response

[_LotusPrime_]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

I call it free to play cause IT'S A FREE TO PLAY. People complain about drop rates as if they spent money to play the game. Free to plays follow very consistent business model of high grind with microtransactions to circumvent the grind or make it easier. Meta slaves try acting like items with low drip chances are some bs justification to remove the gameplay. 

From my experience in this game metas lead to rapid burn out as you limit yourself as little gameplay as possible to repeat a task as many as times possible just chase after a reward. It's not a healthy way to play video games at all. Harsh truth this player base has a issue with FOMO, moderation and patience.

Not sure what type of projection this but curious what power point presentation is on wall.

But agenda? What is my agenda exactly? Using a buzzword like that your trying frame something bad even though all want is players to form their way of style and gameplay themselves without using the crutches of meta. I want players to have their own identity instead of turning into husk that is the meta slave. Warframe is game that offer so much freedom for you gameplay why ruin that by doing whatever some youtuber says or meta scum?

No, the playerbase dont have some issue on their part with FOMO, DE uses FOMO as one of their Business strat, it used to be way more than currently, that little point you make doesn't slip by from me. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Eye0fTyphoon said:

Do you really think so? 

If somebody already has everything, he likes to play slow and try to find new strategy and doesn't need to follow meta.

But if somebody needs to grind and loot fast, he has no choice but following meta and repeating as fast as possible. Adding a new item is fun itself and gives him an opportunity of variety.

 

I recently made a new account and well it's not that it's particularly difficult, it's rather lonely.

With my new account i feel the same as my time in 2013 but much, much easier, if you know what you need you just look for it which tells me that the only real difference is knowledge and that's what makes it more hilarious since knowledge is documented out there, thousands of builds, thousands of guides, where to get the things you need to make your playing time easier but the newest still find things to complain about, ironic right?

DE plans to reduce farming in the early stages of the game which is fine with me, but even so i know they will still complain about everything that is not in their favor even if it is little.
 

[_LotusPrime_]

1 hour ago, Dunkelheit said:

I think you and me, we are not playing the same game. Because a gold drop is at a 30% chance when you run it with 3 other people. You can find those people in Warframes channels. They go like <LF [insert relic here] RAD 1/4>. RAD means, you want to run the relic radiant (pumped to the max).

If a Prime release happens, you can prepare:
Fill the syndicates to the max and collect a lot of their medaillons, Steel Essence. You do this, because you can buy relics with Steel Essence or Syndicate Affinity. Once you have bought all relics, fill your affinity again with the Medaillons that you can find on Syndicate missions.
I do this regularly and I have, most of the time, all items from the Prime release in 2-3 hours. If you have enough void traces, you can now radshare the gold drops that you need. Chances are, you will have your gold drop in max 3-4 runs. Yeah, sometimes you need 8 runs, but there will be times when you have it in the first one.

The one thing that irks me with guys like you: Why do you feel the need to exaggerate the problem? Like your 1% Chance in a normal relic? And what do you mean it only lasts one hour? What lasts one hour? Hopefully you are not talking about the fissure, because you know that they just change, not end, right? Do you expect Pablo or Reb to read your posting, have an ugly cry breakout and change everything in the game so that you will have your stuff faster? Everyone who plays the game for like 50 hours knows that you are exaggerating and it invalidates your whole posting. Don't do that, for your own sake.

You make the mistake that you discuss to be right, but a discussion is there to get things right. And so many people in this forum wanted the AOE meta nerfed, because it is oppressive and disruptive for everyone involved, there might be a point behind it. I am guilty of using the Bramma myself. A clanmate told me yesterday that the game is so easy, with Bramma or no Bramma. Then I invited him to solo SP Void Cascade without an AOE weapon and a frame of his choice. He did not finish the mission once. Well, of course this is possible and many here will do it with a hand tight behind their backs, but it actually feels like a challenge and you might start to sweat while doing it. It is so much fun to find a good team and do this stuff together while synergizing weapons and Warframes. Now I am a Bramma user, but I am looking forward to the time when I can finally wield another weapon or go melee again without feelin inadequate and getting no kills. So I think in the end, we will all win.

Aoe is so disruptive in which missions that everyones involved? Do you mean pubs? Why should pubs be the determinator of balance when most the time you fight 30 lvl enemies, in rare occasion its lvl 120

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

18 hours ago, PrimalordialBob said:

If you're going to nerf all the ways to kill hordes, it's time to get rid of the hordes all together.

aoe weapons are not the only way to take care of killing large groups of enemies there are many ways to kill hoards.  There are CC abilities for frames and lets you line up head shots as you like after dealing with exmus enemies firs.  there is multiple frames with area damage that are not being nerfed.  there are weapons like the Nukor which is not aoe by definition its a single target weapon that chainligntings to the next closest enemie in a certain distance.

 

All this argument equalls into 😭😭😭 they took away my ability to be lazy

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, _LotusPrime_ said:

Aoe is so disruptive in which missions that everyones involved? Do you mean pubs? Why should pubs be the determinator of balance when most the time you fight 30 lvl enemies, in rare occasion its lvl 120

1. Because the game is intended to be Co-Op.
2. Because it's Co-Op players coming to the forums to make complaints about the behavior.

As usual, our behavior is ultimately why we can't have nice things.

[_LotusPrime_]

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

1. Because the game is intended to be Co-Op.
2. Because it's Co-Op players coming to the forums to make complaints about the behavior.

As usual, our behavior is ultimately why we can't have nice things.

But then most or all story related content is solo, DE expects players to achieve quests on players on their own as an axiom, otherwise this wouldnt be the case, co op is more like a candy and extra 

[(PSN)Mister_Sicky]

Oh it will be impactful.  Watch how many people quit playing like myself.

Sick of games providing guns and mods to make them even better and then turn around and nerf. What's the point of making them in the first place.

You would think with the player base dropping to the point I have to one man 2 stages of a sortie that nerfing is not the way to go.