Why the community division?

[Rafael_Sumeragi]

On 2022-09-09 at 7:02 AM, BLI7Z said:

Because crybabies are gonna cry. 

Ayyy, man's waking up choosing violence in the morning but his opinion don't matter due to the fact that is only a oneliner that adds no value to the conversation whatsoever.

DE is anything but consistent, bud, better have your chin up and accept the facts. This change will never, ever in your wildest dreams can sway people from using AoE weapons. You know that, right?

[(XBOX)McNersty]

On 2022-09-08 at 11:56 AM, (NSW)Finlaena said:

Another big chunk of the ire is that with the Wukong nerf, some of those people who are complaining are upset they lost their way to "win" the game without having to put in any time, effort, or thought into builds or trying out other Frames and features (Helminth abilities, Spectres). Their laziness negatively impacted others and now the chickens have come home to roost. I can't say I'm shedding tears for them, but I do feel bad for the legitimate Wukong mains who didn't use him as a crutch to turn everything into a cake walk.

I'm a Wukong main who subsumed better abilities over his twin every day of the week. My usual gameplay with him has not been affected at all.

However, I was curious so I ran some missions with his twin to see the changes and they've turned his clone into an actual liability. Not only is the AI dumber than a bag of rocks, but he'll mindlessly cycle through your weapons and waste all your ammo.

[Rafael_Sumeragi]

On 2022-09-09 at 11:51 PM, TomCruisesSon said:

What about people shaming and review bombing a pretty good update just to troll other players?

Pretty sure the review bombs have such valid reasoning too. They even made a bit of effort to translate their Mandarin to English with the help of Google translate to convey their message, too. Unlike other people who tried so hard to convince others with more than three brain cells that this is a good update.

But I guess I gotta give credits where it's due. Archon Crystals are good, opens few possibilities of combinatorial effects akin to Final Fantasy VII's materia system in the future, and Syndicate Pledging's a nice addition too. Still impartial about armor removal changes, though.

[Rafael_Sumeragi]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)McNersty said:

Not only is the AI dumber than a bag of rocks, but he'll mindlessly cycle through your weapons and waste all your ammo.

Ah, another one on "you don't implement cookie cutter and bandaid solutions to spaghetti-type problems like this!" bingo!

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

If you think it's bad now, just wait until the Viral/Hunter Munitions meta gets nerfed.

[Cody]

On 2022-09-08 at 11:49 AM, Corvid said:

Indeed, I too wonder why AOE users are selfish enough to ruin the gameplay experience of others.

I came here to play Warframe, not a walking simulator.

then don't play public? start forming groups to farm with? don't blame the people for using the tools the devs give us. We put in the time investment to obtain said item. i would have rather have had other items buffed to equal that, now that AoE weapons are put on the shelf along with AoE melee, prepare for AoE warframes taking the spotlight. comming from someone who is a grandmaster you should know there will always be a way to cheese the game its dissapointing you dont, along with other "vets" i see who happen to whine the most. this game doesn't require skill levels to play, just knowledge of how to build. its meant to be a casual game...

I dont sit here and say "oh my ur not playing the warframe i wanted you to bring to my public mission, ur ruining my game experience!" everyones ideal gameplay is subjective, but that mindset of ruining someone elses game experience it sounds and is childish. AoE didn't ruin the game, it always and will always be the players regardless of which side of the AoE war you're on.

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

On 2022-09-09 at 12:56 PM, AzureScion said:

Also Eidolon hunts. When I started tackling Eidolon hunts (which is pretty recent) I can't tell you how many times I've encountered a team of 3 Wukongs trying to hunt an Eidolon with an Ignis Wraith or Kuva Bramma. 

The way I do Eidolons is with a Voidrig, Umbra, Dethcube.

[SpiritTeA]

2 hours ago, Tenka_Isshin said:

Ayyy, man's waking up choosing violence in the morning but his opinion don't matter due to the fact that is only a oneliner that adds no value to the conversation whatsoever.

DE is anything but consistent, bud, better have your chin up and accept the facts. This change will never, ever in your wildest dreams can sway people from using AoE weapons. You know that, right?

Of course. Because AoE wasn’t seriously nerfed at all. You need to be person with less than 10% of working brains (5% for cerebral, 5% for spinal) to  struggle THAT hard with AoE weapons to write down mad review. People with brain damage take my apologies, it’s not exactly your fault.

[Cody]

3 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Of course. Because AoE wasn’t seriously nerfed at all. You need to be person with less than 10% of working brains (5% for cerebral, 5% for spinal) to  struggle THAT hard with AoE weapons to write down mad review. People with brain damage take my apologies, it’s not exactly your fault.

and how exactly do comments like this not get purged?

[AzureScion]

15 minutes ago, Cody said:

and how exactly do comments like this not get purged?

Why? Them death threats over on steam aint getting purged either. Besides what they said was true. Had they used their brain more instead of whining they wouldve been able to circumvent the problem better

[Cody]

3 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Why? Them death threats over on steam aint getting purged either. Besides what they said was true. Had they used their brain more instead of whining they wouldve been able to circumvent the problem better

wording it like that "use your brain" is alot better, the threats over on steam are a third party thing, leave them there. Its making the situation worse by continuing to bring that kind of behavior to other platforms like these forums. again like i mentioned on another thread steam or DE will handle the threats, but retaliation is never the answer, its just the way the world works. You cant get in trouble if someone opens their mouth to you in public and harasses you.

you will however get in trouble if you start harassing them back. its just so depressing to see the way people get, not just in this game but many online communities, in real life, humans are really strange and volatile now more than ever, usually why i avoid them but this game is supposed to be a hobby that im very invested into, timewise, so i like to look at all avenues of discussion maybe thinking theres something good being said but its all the same spat up toxicity everywhere...

[(NSW)warfare3376]

This is the biggest problem facing warframe, the community cannot see eye to eye and accept everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Some likes AoE some like single target, and neither can get along and work together to find out the actual issues with the game to solve them. No, we are too busy fighting with each other on what the proper way to play the game is, with the biggest excuse that the non AoE player give on why AoE should be nerfed is because its ruining their experience because 1 zarr spammer is killing every enemy in sight leaving them with nothing to do. Now lets completely reverse this thought for a second, an AoE player may think that DE should get rid of cephalon fragments or loot containers because other players are too busy looking for them and that its slowing down my mission and ruining my experience I just want to finish and extract as fast as possible. Now lets take the bias away from both of these statements, 1 player wants to finish the mission quickly and get the rewards of said mission so they do while the other 3 players are doing their own thing trying to enjoy the game but now have nothing left to do because player 1 already completed the mission. This is the actual issue, warframe is meant to be a cooperative game yet this co-op gameplay involves 4 random people joining in a single mission and thats about it just 4 people doing 1 single task, a task that only takes 1 person to complete without needing the help of the other 3 no matter what gear the 1 player has. That is simply bad design for a co-op experience, not because AoE is too op. In co-op you are meant to work together yet nothing in warframe really encourages teamwork apart from the occasional friendship doors. This is probably why we have grown so far apart, but what really needs to happen is we need to stop blaming each other and start working together to find real solutions to the gameplay flaws that has caused the AoE meta problem to escalate this far, we have already been through this with the whole maiming strike atterax era and we will continue this viscous cycle until we stop fighting each other.

[Champagne_23]

7 hours ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

This is the biggest problem facing warframe, the community cannot see eye to eye and accept everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Some likes AoE some like single target, and neither can get along and work together to find out the actual issues with the game to solve them. No, we are too busy fighting with each other on what the proper way to play the game is, with the biggest excuse that the non AoE player give on why AoE should be nerfed is because its ruining their experience because 1 zarr spammer is killing every enemy in sight leaving them with nothing to do. Now lets completely reverse this thought for a second, an AoE player may think that DE should get rid of cephalon fragments or loot containers because other players are too busy looking for them and that its slowing down my mission and ruining my experience I just want to finish and extract as fast as possible. Now lets take the bias away from both of these statements, 1 player wants to finish the mission quickly and get the rewards of said mission so they do while the other 3 players are doing their own thing trying to enjoy the game but now have nothing left to do because player 1 already completed the mission. This is the actual issue, warframe is meant to be a cooperative game yet this co-op gameplay involves 4 random people joining in a single mission and thats about it just 4 people doing 1 single task, a task that only takes 1 person to complete without needing the help of the other 3 no matter what gear the 1 player has. That is simply bad design for a co-op experience, not because AoE is too op. In co-op you are meant to work together yet nothing in warframe really encourages teamwork apart from the occasional friendship doors. This is probably why we have grown so far apart, but what really needs to happen is we need to stop blaming each other and start working together to find real solutions to the gameplay flaws that has caused the AoE meta problem to escalate this far, we have already been through this with the whole maiming strike atterax era and we will continue this viscous cycle until we stop fighting each other.

Thank you man, These are exactly my thoughts exactly.

By design, Warframe is incensitiving efficiency since you are going to run the same mission a million times.

Not fully using AOE weapons as before, players will still make use of map clearing frames additionally, so, as this nerf or "rework" created a precedent that the community accepted and those frames are gonna be next, because people can take it, right? They can adapt. This is not a good practice for a PVE game, but the community is busy acting superior to one another as demonstrated in the thread multiple times.

[Rakosta_Kai]

11 hours ago, Cody said:

don't blame the people for using the tools the devs give us.

Not everybody blamed the people for using the tools y'all used. Instead, players simply asked the Devs that the tools get changed instead. 
The need for the change was apparent so DE made it.
It's sad as the nerf was entirely avoidable, people just had to elect to be considerate in Co-Op instead of the behaviors they chose to adopt instead.

DE has been nothing but consistent over the years in regard to their priorities: Co-Op comes first.
Ask any Ash, Volt, Saryn, Trinity, Excalibur, Nyx, or Frost main with 7-9 years in the game and they will tell you the same thing.
Heck, they once nerfed Trinity because players complained that she healed so well that they felt like grouping with a Trin sucked all challenge out of the missions. Same for Frost and Snow Globe.

Here's what I'd be nervous about: Y'all keep kvetching about ammo etc. to get DE to revert it and you actually do get your wish...

It's been a long time since they nuked something from orbit but I'm betting they still have it in them.

[Cody]

57 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Nobody blamed the people for using the tools y'all used. Instead, players simply asked the Devs that the tools get changed instead. 
The need for the change was apparent so DE made it.
It's sad as the nerf was entirely avoidable, people just had to elect to be considerate in Co-Op instead of the behaviors they chose to adopt instead.

DE has been nothing but consistent over the years in regard to their priorities: Co-Op comes first.
Ask any Ash, Volt, Saryn, Trinity, Excalibur, Nyx, or Frost main with 7-9 years in the game and they will tell you the same thing.
Heck, they once nerfed Trinity because players complained that she healed so well that they felt like grouping with a Trin sucked all challenge out of the missions. Same for Frost and Snow Globe.

Here's what I'd be nervous about: Y'all keep kvetching about ammo etc. to get DE to revert it and you actually do get your wish...

It's been a long time since they nuked something from orbit but I'm betting they still have it in them.

actually they are blaming the people, by slandering them with names because of said playstyles with AoE or certain frames. I personally dont care about AoE but you assume i do:

58 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Nobody blamed the people for using the tools y'all used. Instead, players simply asked the Devs that the tools get changed instead. 

Here's what I'd be nervous about: Y'all keep kvetching about ammo etc. to get DE to revert it and you actually do get your wish...
 

so unless your speaking about "you" as in the AoE players in general, if you're referring to me personally you are sadly mistaken because i dont care about the nerf lol sorry. im bothered by how badly people in this game treat eachother over pixels.

[Tiltskillet]

41 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Nobody blamed the people for using the tools y'all used. Instead, players simply asked the Devs that the tools get changed instead. 

Oh it would be so nice if that were true, but it's not.  I don't doubt that some people never did this, and I know that more people were pretty good about not doing it.  IIRC, you're one of those people.

But many posts focused on blaming AoE players themselves instead of DE and the tools they created.  And many still do.   The person you replied to was themself quoting an example.

Quote

Indeed, I too wonder why AOE users are selfish enough to ruin the gameplay experience of others.

 

Spoiler

And honestly, mild and polite as it is compared to the outright vitriol I've seen, I don't know how else to interpret this:

50 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

...people just had to elect to be considerate in Co-Op instead of the behaviors they chose to adopt instead.

Of course,there's plenty of this on every side of the AoE debate here.  Making things personal instead of about game systems.

Not that any of it is unexpected, internet gaming forums being what they are.  But let's not whitewash it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

19 minutes ago, Cody said:

actually they are blaming the people, by slandering them with names because of said playstyles with AoE or certain frames. I personally dont care about AoE but you assume i do:

If you don't want people to arrive at that conclusion then consider choosing your words more carefully.
Otherwise, I would suggest you avoid the use of terms like "I", "we", and "us" if you don't feel you are representative of the group in question.
 

11 hours ago, Cody said:

don't blame the people for using the tools the devs give us. We put in the time investment to obtain said item. i would have rather have had other items buffed to equal that, now that AoE weapons are put on the shelf along with AoE melee, prepare for AoE warframes taking the spotlight.

26 minutes ago, Cody said:

so unless your speaking about "you" as in the AoE players in general, if you're referring to me personally you are sadly mistaken because i dont care about the nerf lol sorry. im bothered by how badly people in this game treat eachother over pixels.

I don't know you and haven't a single clue about what you may, or may not, find important other than what you tell all of us...

@Tiltskillet Agreed and please accept my apologies. I overgeneralized when I shouldn't have.
I'll amend my original post. 

[Maen3]

4 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

It's sad as the nerf was entirely avoidable, people just had to elect to be considerate in Co-Op instead of the behaviors they chose to adopt instead.

The main thing most care about is rushing as fast as possible through most missions to grind faster. Most of the time players don't even shoot enemies unless they have to for the objectives. I don't understand the idea that people that do that isn't considerate to others. The same people will still rush just as fast through the missions as before.

If its an exterminate mission and you cant keep up the tempo the enemies will be dead regardless of what weapons/skills they use. They don't even need to have good builds as the powercreep lets you do a lot more damage than you need. Its a little slower in SP, but i doubt most people that complain about this is talking about steel path. I'm a pretty new player and I've spent plenty of time trying to keep up with vets. Its mostly a question of knowing the tilesets and getting used to the parkour movements.

The way people rush through missions isn't because of aoe, but because of the way the game is designed and because of general powercreep. If they wanted the game to slow down and benefit single target guns more they would have to make fewer more powerful enemies that you cant just jump past. There is no point in trying for a headshot for more damage if the enemy dies from a shot in his toe unless you are using incarnon weapons.

The normal starchart is supposed to be possible to complete for a new player in a badly upgraded warframe with a badly upgraded gun. The difference in power between that new player and one with a fully modded warframe/weapon with arcanes etc is massive and they play the same missions. They cant really nerf it either as the game is a loot-grinder and would lose most of its purpose if they didn't let players get more powerful. They could give veteran players more of an incentive to play SP instead though, so maybe the new SP void fissures help.

Content that requires better gear to survive probably isn't popular enough for a game designed to be as casual as this one.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Holy S#&$ that false equivalence with "i wouldn't celebrate single shot nerfs". Because that's moronic and won't happen. I can't stare at my feet and still get the most kills with a single shot weapon. 

Face it, this has been the best update in awhile. 

[Ethorin]

Why the community division? Because there was community division when Loot was changed to finally kill Greedy Pull onto Mesa so that more than two people got to do anything. There was Community Division when Trinity was nerfed to Affinity Range instead of just hitting everyone all the time. There was Community Division when Blessing was changed from full invincibility to 99% DR(then nerfed to 90% and eventually to the current 75%). There was Community Division when Viver got deleted.

 

Any time there's a nerf to widespread systems there's some people who would rather yell about it than go and figure out how things work now. And some who go "finally, it was about damn time".

 

Personally, I really like that they didn't hit any actual usability feature, they didn't nerf damage, they didn't force self stagger, they didn't return self damage, instead, they targeted EXACTLY the behavior that is unhealthy and left the guns in entirely useable states.

[MouadSaqui]

it all started with Railjack 

 

On 2022-09-08 at 4:52 PM, (PSN)isbergen said:

It's a horde shooter

If you have an official confirmation please quote me and post it so I and the other can see it. bcs I can't find any, DE never said "Look guys, you know this game is a "HORDE SHOOTER", in fact they said its a "Dungeon looter" or "Loot shooter" which can mean many things, from fighting hordes of enemies to finding giant bosses. 

[Corvid]

16 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

But many posts focused on blaming AoE players themselves instead of DE and the tools they created.  And many still do.   The person you replied to was themself quoting an example.

AOE players always say "Just play solo", treating the problem like it's on the player's end.

I am merely holding them to their own standard.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

If you wonder why de ruined your "power fantasy," please name one time Warframe was advertised by people shooting the floor with a rocket launcher for the entire mission. 

That's not power fantasy, that's breaking the immersion of a game advertised as space warriors.

[Maen3]

3 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

If you have an official confirmation please quote me and post it so I and the other can see it. bcs I can't find any, DE never said "Look guys, you know this game is a "HORDE SHOOTER" 

What would you call a game where you spend 95%+ of the time killing hordes of continuously spawning trashmobs that all die from 1-2 shots from a decent gun.

[Rakosta_Kai]

10 minutes ago, Maen3 said:

What would you call a game where you spend 95%+ of the time killing hordes of continuously spawning trashmobs that all die from 1-2 shots from a decent gun.

Trivial.