Veilbreaker: Launch & Hot Topics

[rinzzlr]

I can be wrong or misunderstand things in this game since I will admit I am not the most knowledgeable but based on what I have learned so far, I think it maybe best to somehow make the Damage Attenuation more forgiving to allow more weapon diversity during the fight and also lessen the feeling of being bullet spongy, while also still somewhat retaining its tanky-ness. I can see where both sides are coming from and it really is no fun when you just one shot the boss with the most strongest slash weapon, or the most powerful raw damage precision weapon we have. Although, what I have liked so far with the fight is how it has a few HP gates and invulnerable phases and that you have to play along the mechanics to remove the invulnerability phase and continue the fight. Perhaps adding more mechanics, like the Sentient summon and the Pyramid attack patterns to the fight would make this more enjoyable. We definitely don't need that much mechanic checks in the fight but a little more to drag out the fight longer and make it more enjoyable does sound nice. It does take inspiration to a few games that have Raid bosses which are very mechanic heavy, have multiple phases during the fight and have a vulnerability phase (which we probably do not want something similar since Archon fights aren't raid bosses in the first place). 

That said, Archon Fights have a lot of potential if tweaked to the right direction. And to summarize my personal suggestion, being aware it might not be the best one;
- more mechanical attack patterns (like the pyramid and sentient summon attack patterns) 
- a couple of HP gates added to the fight
- tweaking the Attenuation down a little bit to allow more weapons to perform 

Also, it should probably be mentioned that because this is meant for players who have invested a decent amount of time into the game, these kinds of fights should be balanced assuming that the player has a weapon build that is at least base Steel Path worthy as basis of player power-level. 

That's just my opinion/suggestion in the end. Cheers DE team and fellow Tenno! 

[GreyKestrel]

I'm loving Veilbreaker so far. I'm glad to hear you will continue iterating on your goals. Thank you for all the hard workk!

[(PSN)grunge788]

Just did 4 steelpath fissure missions 1st 6 minutes 20 seconds 2nd 6 minutes 33 seconds 3rd 7 minutes 2 seconds 4th 7 minutes 21 seconds. All 4 fissures we killed everyone and 0 accolites showed up in all 4 missions. Can we get 100% accolite in first 5 minutes please.

[Voltage]

20 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

What if instead of taking away the "million damage excitement", you give the Archons a flexible amount of health? It would be the inverse effect of Damage Attenuation.

In the vunerable phase everyone in squad attacks as best they can, all the damage information is collected > but not applied. Then you use the invulnerability phase to calculate and reach average damage potential for the squad. Then you give Archon enough health to last 20-25 minutes (when combined with their superpowers and invulnerability mechanics).

The result is that the solo players and low-damage/non-meta squads will take approximately the same time to beat the Archon as the meta squad that is doing millions-upon-millions of damage.

Is that do-able? Archons are the closest we've gotten to "tough raid style" bosses in a long time. It would be good to have a variable stats feature that adjusts to the squad composition.

You realize a system like that just encourages people to fool the formula with weak gear until it is vulnerable and then blast it with something modded well right?

[(PSN)ShiroDNX]

Would like to enjoy the new content and the new frame. It all looks pretty interesting to try, fun or no. Unfortunately, myself and others across multiple platforms, are locked out of content because of The New War.

 

A bug during the confrontation with the final archon forces us to teleport into space near the sun, using the archwing with the railjack in view. It occurs after destroying the final, shielded generator. We are unable to move from this location,  unstuck does not help, and resetting the game just restarts the mission from the necramech section. We have varied loadouts and choices in operators, with no clue on what caused the issue outside of the new update.

 

We would love to get back into the game. Some of us bought boosters for finishing the quests, only for days to pass and waste our resources. Others bought their mechs fresh for the quests, for them to be unable to do anything else but the same escort objective over and over, wasting platinum and time. And then Baro arrives with us stuck in New War.

 

It would be very helpful to know this glitch is, at least, acknowledged by the dev team and being worked on. Hopefully one our posts has gotten your attention concerning this game-breaking bug that is seemingly caused by the Veilbreaker update.

[MR_MP]

4 hours ago, Azamagon said:

I understand the dilemma you are facing, but it's technically pretty easy to see what the issues are:

We have waaay too many + too powerful ways of improving our damage or ignoring enemy defenses.

Mods, powers and actions all have huge numerical boosters, and they all multiply with each other: Base damage, crits, multishot, elemental mods, headshots, Sonar (in particular), faction mods... all this multiply for ENORMOUS boosts.

Add to that being able to remove the insanely powerfully scaling armor from enemies - armorstripping and armor-ignoring effects (i.e. slash-procs, along with Viral-procs boosting that) skyrocket in value and are extremely meta due to that.

If you wanna fix that, it's honestly quite simple:

1. Greatly reduce the numbers on our mods and powers.
2. Reduce (or even remove) the scaling of enemy armor (but make them have much stronger resistances so they are still notable and wortwhile to strip/ignore), but also reduce enemy health/shields scaling from levels.
3. Potentially, limit how much we can mod for damage so we can't have so many multipliers at once.
4. Make all damagetypes valuable and more generally useful: Puncture, Impact, Cold, Blast, Magnetic are all generally utter garbage in their effects, while Viral and Slash are far too potent.

TL;DR: Extreme numerical values, which this game has everywhere, makes the game extremely difficult to balance.

I'm honestly in favour of retooling the whole mod system altogether; gutting any form of damage increases outside of Warframe buffs and certain weapon "special" abilities, and then balancing the entire game around that.

On almost every build, you're going to find your basic plain dmg + crit + 60/60 mods with barely any modification, to the point where it's basically just filler, AT MOST we are using 30-40 ish mods out of what, hundreds? It's the illusion of choice and it's come to a point where any mod that doesn't have some kind of plain stat boost is worthless.

 

This goes for Warframes buffs as well. There's nothing stopping you from just stacking a bunch of Warframes that add damage or crit multipliers. In this instance, I think the best option would be to have certain buffs "win" rather than just add them on top of each other. For example, lets say I have two abilities - one which increases my damage by 50% and another which increases it by 70% - instead of dealing 120% damage the 70% bonus would "win" and the 50% damage bonus would be discarded.

[Okayane]

My take on Archons fights so far and how DE could rework them (please be respectful even if you disagree with me)

 

First of all Archons hunts are a WEEKLY sortie type of mission, it should feel hard, last longer then just a normal sortie and have mechanics to it's whole fight.

 

Reworking the Hunts so that it feels more like a "Raid" or "Group effort" to take them down.

First point: "Hard" doesn't have to be bullet sponges, mechanical hard **can and should be something added to boss fights in the game as a whole**, take for exemple the old LOR (Law of retribution) raid it was mechanics heavy and needed coordination between players which was why it was so loved by many.

Second point: Boss fights should have puzzle mechanics beyond just boss mechanics, have tileset mechanics such as the ones you introduced with the Kahl quest (that little puzzle with moving objectives across the map, or stand on a plate to activate something, or even re-use the throwing mechanic from the living door from Deimos isolation vaults)

Objectives drivens missions is what will makes people use certain types of warframe and gear such as defense warframes like frost/gara/limbo for easier defense objectives and dps frames to max out dps. You get the point. 

 

Let's start with how the whole Hunt should be:

 

->Have a first Puzzle room with an objective to complete to be able to continue the hunt (stand on some plates accross the room for exemple) and while having to do that, having higher tier mobs with some of the easier archon's powers to introduce the players to the boss mechanics  (**IMPORTANT** i'm not talking about having to fight the boss here but introducing it's mechanics to the players) 

-> After resolving the puzzle and being introduced to some of it's mechanics have a first archon DPS phase with the already introduced mechanics 

-> After that first DPS phase the archon escape and awaits you in his final arena

-> A second puzzle room (just like the first one with a different puzzle but) with the more difficult of the archon's mechanics used on higher tier mobs again to introduce them to the players

- >After resolving the puzzle of this room you get introduced to an **ALTERNATIVE** objective to reduce the archon's power and get rid of **1** of it's hardest mechanic (can be random or makes the players have to choose, DE that's on you to decide) This should makes the fight easier for the people that find it too hard and let the choice to the players if they want a harder fight or not.

-> After finishing one of the two above you enter the archon's arena where he awaist you for it's final phase (DPS/KILL) the archon should start with an immunity phase, the puzzles room's mechanics should be re-used in the arena to get rid of it's immunity and start damaging it. After a certain damage cap the archon will use one of it's few defense mechanic (again they were introduced before so can't complain), rinse and repeat while also using the full potential of the room mechanics and the archon's own defense mechanics.

 

Rewards

Each hunts should reward the player with 2-3 shards instead of 1 (with at least one of them being Tau-forged).

But why ?

Well by using maths it would takes **LITERALLY YEARS** to get enough shards to get 5 shards on every warframes

The maths: 50(warframes) x 5(numbers of shard slots per warframes) = 250 | How many weeks in a year ? 52 weeks | How long that would take in total to put 5 shards in all the 50 warframes ? 4 years and 8 months.

And that is only without taking into account the color of shards and Tau forget ones..

 

PS/tips:

Get rid of the no revive mechanic, it serve no purpose in that kind of content where you have to fight a high level and mechanic heavy boss, it only makes people leave and restart the quest, it serve no purpose gameplay wise other then being frustrating because your teammates didn't saw you go down or *just don't want to revive you for some reasons...*

[Wonteddead2]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)ShiroDNX said:

Would like to enjoy the new content and the new frame. It all looks pretty interesting to try, fun or no. Unfortunately, myself and others across multiple platforms, are locked out of content because of The New War.

 

A bug during the confrontation with the final archon forces us to teleport into space near the sun, using the archwing with the railjack in view. It occurs after destroying the final, shielded generator. We are unable to move from this location,  unstuck does not help, and resetting the game just restarts the mission from the necramech section. We have varied loadouts and choices in operators, with no clue on what caused the issue outside of the new update.

 

We would love to get back into the game. Some of us bought boosters for finishing the quests, only for days to pass and waste our resources. Others bought their mechs fresh for the quests, for them to be unable to do anything else but the same escort objective over and over, wasting platinum and time. And then Baro arrives with us stuck in New War.

 

It would be very helpful to know this glitch is, at least, acknowledged by the dev team and being worked on. Hopefully one our posts has gotten your attention concerning this game-breaking bug that is seemingly caused by the Veilbreaker update.

Yeah, it would be fun, for now we watch others enjoy it.

One day we'll get noticed and be able to enjoy the game again.

Glad everyone has been enjoying the new content so far, can't wait for it.

[Sammonoske]

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Our Second Hotfix reverted changes to battery/recharge based weapons, but we are taking more time before next week’s hotfix to review the state of the meta and general player loadouts.

My feedback to this would be to just leave it at that. None of them, even the Bubonico, will be the meta. Usage will go up, but not enough to justify a nerf since most of these weapons are either just usable and MR fodder. The goal is weapon diversity right? Then leave these alone.

[Symbiont]

i stopped using my kuva zarr and hop onto the tenet arca plasmor, you made the kuva zarr obsolete. it doesn't make sense that the weapon get penalized this much for hitting single target and god forbid a single crates with this weapon. sucked the fun out of this weapon. and did you guys forgot the kuva zarr alt fire is meant for single target. it needs better balance to be at least on par with the usage of an tenet arca plasmor.

how about penalize the reload speed instead of reducing ammo pickup when hitting single npc's when using aoe fire, but have the reload speed normalised when using alt fire (single target mode). and make wukong twin use the single target mode.

[eripse]

2 hours ago, (PSN)ShiroDNX said:

Would like to enjoy the new content and the new frame. It all looks pretty interesting to try, fun or no. Unfortunately, myself and others across multiple platforms, are locked out of content because of The New War.

 

A bug during the confrontation with the final archon forces us to teleport into space near the sun, using the archwing with the railjack in view. It occurs after destroying the final, shielded generator. We are unable to move from this location,  unstuck does not help, and resetting the game just restarts the mission from the necramech section. We have varied loadouts and choices in operators, with no clue on what caused the issue outside of the new update.

 

We would love to get back into the game. Some of us bought boosters for finishing the quests, only for days to pass and waste our resources. Others bought their mechs fresh for the quests, for them to be unable to do anything else but the same escort objective over and over, wasting platinum and time. And then Baro arrives with us stuck in New War.

 

It would be very helpful to know this glitch is, at least, acknowledged by the dev team and being worked on. Hopefully one our posts has gotten your attention concerning this game-breaking bug that is seemingly caused by the Veilbreaker update.

I agree with that 200%. I cannot do anything and I'm frustrated over this few days. Lost 3 of my boosters that i bought, reading tweet on official "PlayWarframe" Twitter the hotfix will be done in next week and every of us will lose chance to trade with Baro. 

I respect that there was big update, but 0 response even in forum thread/ticket from stuff is driving me crazy. This is first time I'm in situation like that. 

Hope there will be some kind of recompensation for wasted time, refund of boosters and some kind of deal with Baro T_T

[shut]

4 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

that 'tantrum' as you love to dismiss it as (though I agree it is pretty silly) is because historically DE does not really listen unless it's a unified 'Hekk Off' from the playerbase, and i do mean UNIFIED.

This is 100% true, if you insist on ignoring literally all of the times that DE listened to feedback that didn't come in the form of a "unified 'Hekk Off'". A tiny handful of examples off the top of my head, which I am particularly appreciative of:

• moving melee finishers to Contextual Use instead of Melee (suggested by a small handful of players over the years, including myself)
• setting Melee blocking to block 100% of damage, with block angle determined by weapon type (suggested by a tiny handful of players over the years, including myself)
• reintroducing Heavy Attacks to melee (suggested by a large handful of players over the years, including myself)
• reducing uptime rather than damage of AoE weapons (suggested by a tiny handful of players in recent weeks, including myself)
• fixing Operators stealing Emergence Dissipate orbs from warframes (suggested by a moderate handful of players in recent months, including myself)
• the entirety of the Damage 2.0 system (suggested by literally one individual player back in like 2013)
• yadda yadda yadda.

Player feedback is literally what motivates the overwhelming majority of tweaks and fixes that DE makes to the game. If you wanted to know of the times that DE listened to non-tantrum feedback, you might as well just read every set of patch notes since the game's release.

 

4 hours ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

See also Prime Resurgence where they said changes were impossible but they MAY look into it, then magically after 'BESt DAY EVAH' it gets changed to essentially what most of us were asking for to begin with (but nono it wans't doen FOR us they did it Because They Felt Like It.)

Then there's vacuum within, a few other situations, and so forth where there was clear and Unified backlash.

Compare that to the Hema situation that is STILL a batty slog but 'we want to Honor the players that managed the slog while we were on break' or the 'universal' medallions getting changed because of one mid-rank conclave player on twitter sobbing to the devs verses a majority of the rest of the community.

Not sure what this has to do with my post, but I'm not pretending that I agree with DE's every decision (e.g. Hema, universal medallions, univac on mechs/operators), and I'm not pretending that DE has never done anything that seemed ethically super sus to me (e.g. the "technical limitations" behind including plat in prime resurgence packs). I'm also not pretending that the immature rioting has never been for a cause that I fully agree with (e.g. univac).

But it's important to note: Every parent, every teacher, and every care worker knows that if you cave to the demands of a child throwing a temper tantrum, then you are encouraging that exact behaviour from the child. Warframe players know damn well that DE listens to the community, which is why their tantrums have been getting more and more extreme over smaller and smaller changes each time they've yielded success. This trend will only worsen until DE puts their foot down and updates the game based on their own vision of it, rather than bending over backwards to appease the loudly screaming children who have neither the desire nor the capacity to consider the long-term impacts of their demands.

[Darthplagueis13]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Fiedra:

Hm, didn't know Glaives were so busted in the first place. Is it this effective with Chroma specifically?

Nah, it's more of an issue with the Glaive Prime, specifically. You see, the Glaive Prime is guaranteed ton inflict a bleed status effect with its charged throw explosion. Bleed deals true damage (meaning it ignores armour) based on the modded base damage of the hit, which is quite a lot.

[Wheelhouser]

On 2022-09-09 at 2:42 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yep, also don't want 15 second fights, so onward we quest to solve the million damage excitement vs. bosses.

Boreal should have been your best-designed boss, given where it is in the progress of the game.  And the fact that it's new.  A player has to, for the most part, complete everything in the game to get here.  Sure, plat can bypass most of that, but most aren't going to, or haven't, done that.  At least in full.  Most play through the game to get here.  The new boss that's at the height of difficulty, barring endless Steel Path.  Archon Hunts are the current "pinnacle" of Warframe content.

And we got a generic tileset.  A recycled chase (though not really, just one brief diversion) of like 1,000 meters (Oro, Vay Hek) to kill some adds and unlock a gate.  A "don't stand in the fire" mechanic.  A "hit the weak spots" mechanic.  A "kill sentients" mechanic.  A "boss is immune to everything" mechanic.  And the harshest attenuation in the game.  Everything done many times before.  Anyone who's gotten here has seen it all many times already (both in Warframe and other games).

Regardless of one shot potential, the mechanics are never going to be exciting for the vast majority of players.  Add in attenuation and you see "bullet sponge" because that's what it is.  Not many people ever find bullet sponges exciting in any game.  If attenuation is your answer answer to the power creep you keep upping, no one is really ever going to enjoy it.  It, along with full immunity, makes everything done to get to this point feel wasted.  Seeing the boss go down in 15 seconds because someone brought an OP build to specifically do that would, for me at least, be less bad than being bored.

And it's weird because the previous update brought in Void Angels.  Their own arena.  Abilities can work.  Actual new mechanics.  Varied gameplay.  Pity orbs.  Probably attenuation, but if so, it doesn't feel oppressive.

[GrimSinner]

Why can't we at least fight the Archon once per day?  A week waiting seems excessive.

[l_Azrael_l]

Please take a look at the new war quest, right after the voidrig, many people are stuck unable to play the game at all, some even have boosters going to waste, we just get teleported to the sun with our frames being stuck with the archwing unable to do anything at all. please take a look at this.

[LillyRaccune]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

You realize a system like that just encourages people to fool the formula with weak gear until it is vulnerable and then blast it with something modded well right?

You're right. Sorry. I just can't think like an exploiter. I'm trying to help...

[LillyRaccune]

Just now, l_Azrael_l said:

Please take a look at the new war quest, right after the voidrig, many people are stuck unable to play the game at all, some even have boosters going to waste, we just get teleported to the sun with our frames being stuck with the archwing unable to do anything at all. please take a look at this.

Nani?! That's crazy.

Did you try contacting Support Team? Maybe they can fix you?

[l_Azrael_l]

1 minute ago, LillyRaccune said:

Nani?! That's crazy.

Did you try contacting Support Team? Maybe they can fix you?

A ton of people have made tickets theres multiple posts on the forums about this, no answer to anybody yet its been 4 days now no responses at all

 

This were we get teleported to after destroying the generators against the last archon, different loadouts, across platforms, both with drifter and operators, 

[IdiotteFrogg]

10 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Nani?! That's crazy.

Did you try contacting Support Team? Maybe they can fix you?

I tried almost a day ago, no answer. Boosters are on fire, weekends pass.

[OneofTwo7734]

So has this update broken the new war quest for anyone else? I decided to replay the quest mostly just for kahl’s segment and am now stuck at the last archon fight immobile and unable to play the game. 

[Skaiverz]

17 minutes ago, l_Azrael_l said:

Please take a look at the new war quest, right after the voidrig, many people are stuck unable to play the game at all, some even have boosters going to waste, we just get teleported to the sun with our frames being stuck with the archwing unable to do anything at all. please take a look at this.

Same here, can't play the game. Alot of people are having this issue and it's spread across all platforms. Hope DE fixes this or at least gives us an answer.

[OneofTwo7734]

13 minutes ago, l_Azrael_l said:

A ton of people have made tickets theres multiple posts on the forums about this, no answer to anybody yet its been 4 days now no responses at all

 

This were we get teleported to after destroying the generators against the last archon, different loadouts, across platforms, both with drifter and operators, 

And since you can’t abort this quest once you start it you’re effectively locked out of the game. 

[(PSN)ShiroDNX]

Yep, there are several threads about The New War breaking the game that have started showing up after Veilbreaker dropped. Across all platforms so far, except Switch. But that might be a population reasoning, since more players use the other platforms.
 

Hopefully we’ve let the devs know it’s happening, by now. Sooner they can work on a fix, sooner they can ensure players can continue onto the newer updates for the game.

[OneofTwo7734]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)ShiroDNX said:

Yep, there are several threads about The New War breaking the game that have started showing up after Veilbreaker dropped. Across all platforms so far, except Switch. But that might be a population reasoning, since more players use the other platforms.
 

Hopefully we’ve let the devs know it’s happening, by now. Sooner they can work on a fix, sooner they can ensure players can continue onto the newer updates for the game.

I would really appreciate it if they compensated us for being locked out of the game in the meantime. Probably asking for too much there but I’m missing out on baro kiteer because of this.