Hydroid Rework Concept

[Sakethray]

I recently tried my best to rework Hydroid into a better place in the game, by having his abilities synergize differently and reworking some abilities that felt clunky. Here it is! Feedback is obviously appreciated!

 

Hydroid Rework:

New Gauge: Water Pressure

Hydroid will now have a new gauge similar to Gauss’s Battery and Sevagoth’s Death Well. This Gauge will passively increase slowly, and will change values of abilities based on how full it is. The Gauge may also be charged 1% on a kill.

 

New Passive: Geyser + Drown

Hydroid’s slam attacks will now create a geyser which will last 15 seconds and will deal 20 Impact damage (guaranteed proc) within a 5 meter AOE radius around them every 5 seconds. Hydroid may charge his Pressure Gauge faster while standing on a Geyser. Only 3 Geysers may be active at one time. 

 

Hydroid deals more damage to enemies who are staggered or fallen, they also drop more loot.

 

Ability 1: Barrage
 

By pressing [1], Hydroid shoots a quick burst of water that explodes in a 3 meter radius on contact and deals 50 / 100 / 200 / 400 Impact Damage and knockdown. The water projectile is as large as a Charged Nataruk Shot. This form of the ability is a One Handed Action.

 

By holding [1], Hydroid, after a 0.5 second wind up, shoots a jet of water that slowly drains the Pressure Gauge. The jet is a narrow cone and has a range of 7 meters and deals 20 * 3^t Impact damage per second per enemy and pushes enemies away, where ‘t’ is the amount of time an enemy is hit by the ability.

*Note: This is a very good ability against Eximus Units, who cannot be knocked back and escape the exponentially increasing damage

 

Ability 2: Tidal Surge

 

By pressing [2], Hydroid, after a 1 second wind up, shoots a mass of water 5 / 7.5 meters wide in the direction he is aiming. This water travels for 1 second at 20 / 25 / 27.5 / 30 m/s. The Surge may stop early if it hits a wall. Enemies caught in the Surge are deposited at the Surge’s endpoint and are dealt 100 / 200 / 250 / 300 Impact Damage and are knocked down. 

 

By holding [2], Hydroid, for the cost of more energy, casts Tidal Surge but moves with the Surge, dealing more damage based on the amount in the Pressure Gauge and becoming invulnerable in travel. This also drains the Pressure Gauge by 25%.

.

Ability 3: Undertow

Hydroid drops into a puddle that begins 1 meter wide. While in this state, Hydroid moves faster, is invulnerable, and has slow energy drain.  By holding Fire, Hydroid expands the puddle to 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 meters and sucks in enemies standing on the puddle. Each enemy in the puddle expands the base radius of the puddle when not being fired and slows Hydroid down. If the puddle’s radius exceeds 5 meters, firing will not increase the puddle’s size, but will continue to suck in enemies. 

 

Enemies inside the puddle take exponentially increasing damage, with the ‘rate of fire’ based on the Pressure gauge, which depletes 0.5% per second while using this ability. Basically, the ability will be more effective based on the starting amount in the gauge, then slowly lose effectiveness if used for too long. While the Pressure gauge cannot passively increase, kills still increase the gauge.

 

Hydroid may use his abilities while using his 3, which the danger of Hydroid being vulnerable during any wind up animations. Regardless of Hydroid’s puddle speed, holding 2 will still work normally and keep puddle form activated at the end.

.

Ability 4: Maelstrom

Hydroid will enter a 2.5 second wind up and summon a torrent around him, with radius of 3 / 5 / 6 / 7 meters. This torrent will do 100 Impact and Magnetic Damage, and strip 10% armor every second. Enemies who die in this torrent drop extra loot. The passive increase of the Pressure Gauge is increased.

[0_The_F00l]

Too much waiting on cast ,

Too little tentacles.

Impact is also one of the weakest damage types , maybe combination of impact and cold would make more sense.

 

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

Although I can’t see this as a rework for Hydriod, I can see it as it’s own concept for a Warframe who is themed around Steam and Pressure. Kind of like… A kettle?

The holding of abilities would feel impactful and gives the Warframe a lot of versatility on when it wants to do abilities. 

 

[Numerikuu]

7 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Too much waiting on cast ,

Too little tentacles.

Impact is also one of the weakest damage types , maybe combination of impact and cold would make more sense.

^This. He needs less waiting/cast times, not more of it.

Hydroid is one of those frames that honestly doesn't need a full and total redo of his kit, just touch ups to it. His passive can go however since it's one of the worst in the game.

His 1, Barrage, is generally the most subsumed ability since he has enough CC as is imo. the damage of it is poor and tends to fling enemies away. The augment after the corrosive change is also garbage even after the rework to it. If there was a skill to be changed into something else entirely it would be his 1.

His 2, Surge, is fine and shines with the augment (a must have augment imo). Provides complete damage immunity when in use, snap CC and grouping up of enemies if slammed into a wall, or going straight from it into Undertow. With the augment on it also provides full status immunity to you and all allies touched by it, and reduces the cost to a very small amount of energy. Skilled players can out-surf the likes of Volt, Gauss, Wukong, Titania etc.

His 3, Undertow, desperately needs the most touch-ups. Surging from Undertow at current does not drag along all enemies caught in Undertow, which despite the supposed synergy ruins the potential of the ability. In order for Undertow to literally crush enemies like it's designed to do you have to stay put for the damage to ramp up... but if you Surge to reposition the trap all the enemies are released... 💯🤦‍♀️ This needs changing so that when you do Surge from Undertow all enemies trapped are dragged along with you. The damage OT ramp-up also needs to be sped up a bit, as by the time it reaches the pressure that it does start to kill things your team are already at extraction half asleep. The last change it needs is for Hydroid to be able to pick up loot while in Undertow. Currently if enemies die within all loot ends up on top of your Undertow, which means your screen/view becomes utterly littered and blocked with loot/orbs etc, meaning you can't see shi-, meaning you can't grab enemies to drag them into Undertow with your tentacle grap... 💯💯🤦‍♀️

His 4, Swarm, needs a reduction on cast time, if not an outright removal of it tbh. Just have it always be the maximum charged cast, as 99% of the time it's what users do anyway. "Oh, but the small cluster cast--" just cast it from Undertow. Any Hydroid user should know this--especially since casting from Undertow doubles Swarm's damage. One thing I'd like to see is a cost reduction to his 4 if cast from Undertow as well. If there was one thing I'd change, it'd be to remove the Magnetic damage and replace it with Slash damage. Rip and tear until it is done.

If I had to replace his 1 with something, it would be a primer ability. Something to make enemies more susceptible to the damage of his other abilities instead of being forced to cast from Undertow to double his Swarm's damage. I feel the augment for Barrage was 'supposed' to be something like that, but completely misses the mark. All I know is when I get another Styanax for the subsume I'm replacing his 1 with Tharros Strike 👀

I hope DE does touch him up eventually given he's one of the least used frames in the game, but I would absolutely loathe a complete and utter top to bottom reworking of him like OP suggested. He's one of the few 'frames in the game where in order to really shine you have to use your entire Arsenal, and Tenno, to do so. Which means full engagement of the game, unlike certain frames where you press 1 button and AFK.

He rewards player effort and engagement.

-- Signed, an L2 Hydroid main.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

after playing Styanax, I was reminded of the beauty of a frame having a simple kit: no gauges to worry about, none of this hold-cast rubbish, no second form that has to be managed.. just good old fashioned "press and ye will kill stuff then" abilities.

As for Hydroid, I feel Yareli - cringey as she is - is a better water frame, so Hydroid should lean more into the Pirate/Sea monster themes. my proposed rework:

passive: enemies drop loot/ammo twice upon kill. as a pirate, loot matters.

new dodge; the Tidal Surge animation plays when you dodge.

Tempest Barrage: Corroding Barrage augment is now part of the base ability, augment can be changed to dropping a single large cannonball with increased AoE. damage and range is increased, and instead of being knocked down, enemies are slowed.

Tidal Surge is replaced with Kraken Call: Hydroid marks an enemy for his Sea monster to rise up and devour. the victim take large amounts of impact, slash and corrosive damage as they are eaten, then are stuck inside the Kraken's belly, taking corrosive damage over time until they die. when the Kraken Rises up, he will also deal damage to any in his path.

Undertow is now an area cast, instead of Hydroid turning into a puddle and taking the player out of the game, Hydroid creates a puddle zone that heals players (Curative undertow is now part of the base ability) and cleanses status effects. enemies who step into the zone take corrosive damage. the augment is changed to add a Vortex that drags enemies towards Undertow and deal additional damage, allowing Undertow to be used as an offensive CC ability as well as a team heal.

Tentacle Swarm replaced by Wrath of the Sea: Hydroid conjures up a massive Maelstrom that sucks in enemies and deals high corrosive damage over time, the Kraken emerges and will strike enemies with three different tentacle types: one which deals slash damage, one dealing puncture and impaling the enemy, and an impact one that slash the ground, creating an additional shockwave. while inside Wrath of the Sea, Hydroid and allies also gains increased weapon damage.

Hydroid deserves to be a sea-monster summoning bada$$ pirate lord, who can command the battlefield at a whim, and that's how he should make the player feel. 

[0_The_F00l]

54 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

after playing Styanax, I was reminded of the beauty of a frame having a simple kit: no gauges to worry about, none of this hold-cast rubbish, no second form that has to be managed.. just good old fashioned "press and ye will kill stuff then" abilities.

As for Hydroid, I feel Yareli - cringey as she is - is a better water frame, so Hydroid should lean more into the Pirate/Sea monster themes. my proposed rework:

passive: enemies drop loot/ammo twice upon kill. as a pirate, loot matters.

new dodge; the Tidal Surge animation plays when you dodge.

Tempest Barrage: Corroding Barrage augment is now part of the base ability, augment can be changed to dropping a single large cannonball with increased AoE. damage and range is increased, and instead of being knocked down, enemies are slowed.

Tidal Surge is replaced with Kraken Call: Hydroid marks an enemy for his Sea monster to rise up and devour. the victim take large amounts of impact, slash and corrosive damage as they are eaten, then are stuck inside the Kraken's belly, taking corrosive damage over time until they die. when the Kraken Rises up, he will also deal damage to any in his path.

Undertow is now an area cast, instead of Hydroid turning into a puddle and taking the player out of the game, Hydroid creates a puddle zone that heals players (Curative undertow is now part of the base ability) and cleanses status effects. enemies who step into the zone take corrosive damage. the augment is changed to add a Vortex that drags enemies towards Undertow and deal additional damage, allowing Undertow to be used as an offensive CC ability as well as a team heal.

Tentacle Swarm replaced by Wrath of the Sea: Hydroid conjures up a massive Maelstrom that sucks in enemies and deals high corrosive damage over time, the Kraken emerges and will strike enemies with three different tentacle types: one which deals slash damage, one dealing puncture and impaling the enemy, and an impact one that slash the ground, creating an additional shockwave. while inside Wrath of the Sea, Hydroid and allies also gains increased weapon damage.

Hydroid deserves to be a sea-monster summoning bada$$ pirate lord, who can command the battlefield at a whim, and that's how he should make the player feel. 

Not bad , but not enough tentacles.

I would prefer if the tentacle swarm was more of a mine field ,

Instead of having an existing bunch of tentacles , they would only appear when an enemy steps into that area. They would then proceed to pummel the enemy Hulk style. A much more reliable area CC.

Pair that with your recommended 2 and 4 for some death from below playstyles.

But i would still like to turn into a puddle some way.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

9 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Too much waiting on cast ,

Too little tentacles.

Impact is also one of the weakest damage types , maybe combination of impact and cold would make more sense.

 

The 4th ability does armor strip, so impact damage would work. I agree that it does seem like it would take too long to cast with too much time spent slamming the ground.

[(PSN)Unstar]

5 hours ago, Numerikuu said:

Undertow. With the augment on it also provides full status immunity to you and all allies touched by it, and reduces the cost to a very small amount of energy. Skilled players can out-surf the likes of Volt, Gauss, Wukong, Titania etc.

I came into this thread just to see what you would have to say about it.  The above is the only part that I was surprised to read, so I'm curious if you could let me know what build you use to both be effective in general and also achieve these surfing results?  I'd love to try it.

[ReddyDisco]

This writeup isn't darkmode friendly.

what if 4 summons a karken pet that you could control and give orders to that could flop about and dismember enemies would be cool, effective? maybe not but would be a spectacle to see

[TheNerdyShirt]

I agree with the guy above, hydroid should feel more like a pirate rather than "the water frame". I also ditto the double loot passive.

His 1 - imagine tidal surge but instead of a wave that's tied to the ground, it's a glob of water that is shot out of a cannon, when shooting yourself at an enemy, deals damage. Whenever I use tidalwave personally, I always get interrupted by objects in the terrain. So turning it into more of an aerial thing feels better. Plus it's a #*!%ing cannon, it's cool asf. Helminth ability because it'd be awesome.

His 2 - a huge  crew of pirates go around dealing loads of slash procs to enemies, hold cast to make them scour the area and break crates, open lockers, and pick up ayatan stars etc. When the pirates open crates etc. It's a significantly higher likelihood of them finding rare resources. (His passive also adds to this).

His 3 - undertow is now an area cast and not a self-cast. The tentacles and the undertow are now bundled into the same ability, the tentacles pull in enemies into the water, where they slowly die. (Their armor is stripped when underwater so he's capable at endgame). You can also shoot the pool to make em die quicker. 

His 4 - an exalted flintlock pistol!! Energy pool based and not reliant on ammo. Shooting the undertow gives you a flat % of crit (like harrow) on enemies in the undertow. 

That's my take, DE please do freaking anything with hydroid, he's such a cool frame with so much potential.

 

[Sakethray]

Ok... I've heard your cries and will redo this whole thing to further the Pirate Asthetic, thanks for the feedback!

 

[Numerikuu]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I came into this thread just to see what you would have to say about it.  The above is the only part that I was surprised to read, so I'm curious if you could let me know what build you use to both be effective in general and also achieve these surfing results?  I'd love to try it.

Caaan do!

For the out-surfing, that entirely falls down to the player and their map/tile knowledge/reflexes etc, same for the other speedy frames mentioned. If you have fast reflexes/timing then he'll outspeed them. Normally I don't do this since it's not necessary with the sprint speed mod/parkour, but there's the odd case in pubs where you'll lock eyes with another speedster and a race happens 😂 the most memorable one I remember having was with a pro Nova player who was a master with their use of Worm Hole.

If you want to build entirely around Tidal Surge though, then I suggest checking out the vid provided below:

Spoiler

 

Currently switching between Roar and Aquablades on him, but the moment I grab another Styanax to subsume I'll be using Tharros Strike (replacing his 1 for all of them). When I do I'll be switching from Unairu to Vazarin not just for the support, but for Void Snare. Unairu will be redundant due to the full armor and shield strip from Tharros Strike, and his Tidal Impunity augment makes him status immune (inbuilt PSF).

I pair him with Viral/Slash weapons, with at least one having some form of AoE so it can hit everything grabbed by his Swarm. Currently I'm using the Corinth Prime (because me likey boom stick), the Pox, and the Wolf Sledge. I have the Pox on him at all times built for status/duration, though sadly the weapon is bugged at the moment along with all other weapons that function similarly :'( (would be that you throw one down and it creates a gas cloud of ticking status effects). I got a perfect roll for them with the build I was aiming for. Currently they tick status for around 12 or so seconds--which should be plenty to murder everything with Undertow/Swarm.

Currently I use the Nautilus sentinel for its Cordon to pull everything to me, then I'd shield/armor strip with Unairu, throw down a Pox, go into Undertow, then cast Swarm.

When I get Tharros Strike however I'll instead use Void Snare (then Dissipate sling if energy is needed, another bonus to Snare), T Strike, Pox (hopefully it gets patched), Undertow, Swarm. Or as I'd like to call the build, Succ, Strip, Swallow 'n Swarm 🤣

Anything that isn't dead by the time the Pox stops ticking I finish off with either a nade from the Corinth, or a throw of the Wolf Sledge.

As for Archon Shards, I have a Tau 75+ energy and Tau 15+ duration on him currently. Will defo slap on some cast speed when I get a hold of it though. I'll possibly be replacing the Nautilus for a Hound as well... as for why?... ⬇️

Spoiler

"Eh? Why Archon Stretch???"

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2022-09-21 at 5:01 PM, Numerikuu said:

--snip--

Wow.  Honestly, I didn't expect this much detail.  This really shows me the difference between someone who specializes in a single frame and someone who is more of a generalist like myself; before reading this I would likely never have even thought to customize my Focus school, pet, and full weapon loadout so that they synergized with my Warframe.  But maybe that's why I feel some frames are underpowered while folks who main them feel they're fine, because ⁠— with the notable exception of making sure Mag has a weapon that capitalizes on Magnetize ⁠— I'm not used to feeling like I need to change any of my gear when I switch to the frames I gravitate towards.

In short, not only have you answered my request with gusto, but you've also helped me better understand a different kind of play perspective than the one I'm accustomed to.  Much appreciated!

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Wow.  Honestly, I didn't expect this much detail.  This really shows me the difference between someone who specializes in a single frame and someone who is more of a generalist like myself; before reading this I would likely never have even thought to customize my Focus school, pet, and full weapon loadout so that they synergized with my Warframe.  But maybe that's why I feel some frames are underpowered while folks who main them feel they're fine, because ⁠— with the notable exception of making sure Mag has a weapon that capitalizes on Magnetize ⁠— I'm not used to feeling like I need to change any of my gear when I switch to the frames I gravitate towards.

In short, not only have you answered my request with gusto, but you've also helped me better understand a different kind of play perspective than the one I'm accustomed to.  Much appreciated!

You're very welcome 💛