Archon no revive needs rework

[GourangaPL]

No revives sucks. It needs to be changed. My suggestion is: make it work like in arbitration, when you're dead allies must revive you, let's say by bringing you 10 sentient cores or whatever, and to prevent people from ignoring randoms make it extraction won't work for anyone untill there's anyone down.

[tel__arin]

yeah, the arbitration style would be nice. 

[ThommiX]

Teammates already can revive you without any need for anything extra. It has been like this since archon hunt was added.

Stick with your team and they are more likely to revive you, if you run alone far,they will ignore you.

Check how you can improve your survivability as these are end game missions and you should be able to survive on your own.

You can also try using Unairu focus for the last grasp and revive yourself with that.

[yarl5000]

Yeah, give us something extra we can choose to do tor revive an ally if they went down and we couldn't get to them in time.  Sentient cores could work, I even thought of it spawning in a deacon we need to kill to get an item to revive the downed ally.  

It sucks if they get popped and then lets say an Archon ability is pushing you away from them so even if you try to revive your friend you can't.  Just sucks that you can do anything to bring them back then, through the line up of a few events that prevented you from reaching them in time. 

[Helljack84]

14 minutes ago, yarl5000 said:

Yeah, give us something extra we can choose to do tor revive an ally if they went down and we couldn't get to them in time.  Sentient cores could work, I even thought of it spawning in a deacon we need to kill to get an item to revive the downed ally.  

It sucks if they get popped and then lets say an Archon ability is pushing you away from them so even if you try to revive your friend you can't.  Just sucks that you can do anything to bring them back then, through the line up of a few events that prevented you from reaching them in time. 

Simply said, if you die your skill/gear or teamwork isn't up to the task. I don't see a benefit in (possibly even being forced into) reviving that guy. 

Void mode exists.

If anything this mission shows how going from 4 daily revives to spam 6 per mission probably wasn't all that good. The inactivity timer might cause trouble though.

[Uhkretor]

Let it stay as it is.

Lack of minimum adequacy demands proper punishment. And since it isn't solo specific, players need to properly interact with other players.

 

If you're having problems with your builds then ask for advises instead of asking to distort one of the major points of those Archon Hunts into a handicapped version of it.

[yarl5000]

19 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

Simply said, if you die your skill/gear or teamwork isn't up to the task. I don't see a benefit in (possibly even being forced into) reviving that guy. 

Void mode exists.

It wasn't an issue of build, or teamwork it was them getting smacked with something we didn't see coming and then the Archon aoe pushback preventing access to them even with void mode before the timer ran out.  It felt like a cheap shot with the death but then the frustration of not being able to even reach them just sucked the fun out of that archon hunt. 

I know it is meant to be a punishment but still doesn't mean it isn't an unfun mechanic that could be addressed with a side thing to do to bring them back in.  Plus rather be able to revive them than risk having a host go down, die, and then leave causing the host migration maybe leading to a death cascade.  

[Redwyrm]

Nidus, Wukong, Unauri School. There are plenty of way to avoid death, without relying on other players. Even though it actually meant to make player cooperate.
It also meant to be harder. Unfortunatey it's still way too easy.

1 hour ago, yarl5000 said:

I know it is meant to be a punishment but still doesn't mean it isn't an unfun mechanic that could be addressed with a side thing to do to bring them back in.  Plus, rather be able to revive them than risk having a host go down, die, and then leave causing the host migration maybe leading to a death cascade.  

If by "unfun" you mean necessity to overthink your strategy, choice of warframe, and choice of mods - then sorry, but that's actually a fun part, long needed.

[yarl5000]

33 minutes ago, Redwyrm said:

If by "unfun" you mean necessity to overthink your strategy, choice of warframe, and choice of mods - then sorry, but that's actually a fun part, long needed.

I mean unfun in that a seeming random thing knocking out friends Nidus, combined with the Archon knockback preventing resurrection.  I'm not sure what strategy would have countered that, tried to void sling in and didn't work.  So they had to sit there and watch me finish the mission, and I had to finish it without them. 

I am just in support of them adding something extra that you can opt to do to rez a squad mate, not make the mission easier.  Similar to how if someone goes down in Arbitrations you can take on the rez tokens but they impact your frame's health, shields, and energy.  Hence why I initially suggested adding something to do with a Deacon spawning that you can either opt to deal with or just keep going, the Archon and other enemies would still be around so you would have to balance that if you want to do the extra thing. 

[Toa_Ignika]

23 minutes ago, yarl5000 said:

I mean unfun in that a seeming random thing knocking out friends Nidus, combined with the Archon knockback preventing resurrection.  I'm not sure what strategy would have countered that, tried to void sling in and didn't work.  So they had to sit there and watch me finish the mission, and I had to finish it without them. 

I am just in support of them adding something extra that you can opt to do to rez a squad mate, not make the mission easier.  Similar to how if someone goes down in Arbitrations you can take on the rez tokens but they impact your frame's health, shields, and energy.  Hence why I initially suggested adding something to do with a Deacon spawning that you can either opt to deal with or just keep going, the Archon and other enemies would still be around so you would have to balance that if you want to do the extra thing. 

There is a big difference in how Arbitration and how Archon Hunts work tho.
Arbitration has no Dying state, the revive system there simply replace it. Archon Hunts works like regular mission, you're downed, and have time to get revived by your teammate, if noone pick you up then you're dead but this time you have no free lives like regular missions.

So why Arbitration has that token system ? Well because there was no Dying state at all there before, if you were downed, then it was simply over, you had to get out of the mission, end.

But Archon Hunts let you get revived from that state, you still have the timer for it, is it fun to have noone reviving you at all ? No, but that's on the players you're playing with, it can also happen in Arbitration where everyone ignore the token and let you stay as a tower.

Also you can easily go revive a downed Tenno, if Knockback is your issue, you can simply use some Status immunity, like going in Void mode with your Operator/ Drifter (why are you even talking about Void Sling, it's a travel movement), use some mods or abilities that grant you that. You could even run things that let your revive faster, like the Amalgam Shotgun mod, the Vazarin Focus School, Nekros augment for his 1, and prbably other things I dont think about.

And if they indeed add some mechanics to let people being revived after their timer runs out, should they also bring it to all the other regular missions ? After all it's the same downed mechanics. And if you run out quickly out of your 4 lives (6 with Arcanes) let say in Steel Path or Eidolon/ Profit Taker, for reasons (insta-revived quickly, or teammate letting you downed) well you're also have to watch them finishing the mission.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, yarl5000 said:

I know it is meant to be a punishment but still doesn't mean it isn't an unfun mechanic that could be addressed with a side thing to do to bring them back in. 

IMHO, dieing could just mean boss getting some HP (up to certain point of course, e.g. up to phase 2 (1/2 hp)).

1 hour ago, Redwyrm said:

Nidus, Wukong, Unauri School. There are plenty of way to avoid death, without relying on other players. Even though it actually meant to make player cooperate.
It also meant to be harder. Unfortunatey it's still way too easy.

Picking cheating ability/frame is not what I would consider hard. It's not even "easy".

1 hour ago, Redwyrm said:

3 hours ago, yarl5000 said:

 

If by "unfun" you mean necessity to overthink your strategy, choice of warframe, and choice of mods - then sorry, but that's actually a fun part, long needed.

If by thinking you mean picking frame with some immortality then it's not very fun. What you can do? You died. Pick another frame. You died? Pick another frame. So on and so forth. It's not very good fail > fix loop as you don't really know what causes the problem.

ps. I don't think you mean Overthinking. "Over" part means that you are thinking too much.

 

[iHaku]

just dont die. those missions arent that highlevel, let's be honest. you could, if you wanted. literally just laze around on ivara and stay stealthed forever and beat the archon hunt one handed while watching a yt video.

[yarl5000]

1 hour ago, Toa_Ignika said:

There is a big difference in how Arbitration and how Archon Hunts work tho.
Arbitration has no Dying state, the revive system there simply replace it. Archon Hunts works like regular mission, you're downed, and have time to get revived by your teammate, if noone pick you up then you're dead but this time you have no free lives like regular missions.

So why Arbitration has that token system ? Well because there was no Dying state at all there before, if you were downed, then it was simply over, you had to get out of the mission, end.

But Archon Hunts let you get revived from that state, you still have the timer for it, is it fun to have noone reviving you at all ? No, but that's on the players you're playing with, it can also happen in Arbitration where everyone ignore the token and let you stay as a tower.

Also you can easily go revive a downed Tenno, if Knockback is your issue, you can simply use some Status immunity, like going in Void mode with your Operator/ Drifter (why are you even talking about Void Sling, it's a travel movement), use some mods or abilities that grant you that. You could even run things that let your revive faster, like the Amalgam Shotgun mod, the Vazarin Focus School, Nekros augment for his 1, and prbably other things I dont think about.

And if they indeed add some mechanics to let people being revived after their timer runs out, should they also bring it to all the other regular missions ? After all it's the same downed mechanics. And if you run out quickly out of your 4 lives (6 with Arcanes) let say in Steel Path or Eidolon/ Profit Taker, for reasons (insta-revived quickly, or teammate letting you downed) well you're also have to watch them finishing the mission.

I mention void sling because I tried to just walk in void mode, didn't work so I tried to sling in that didn't work, walking in didn't work.  It wasn't an issue of not being able to revive fast enough it was the issue of for the whole time they were downed the AOE pushback from the Archon did not let anything get close to the downed teammate.  

I don't view the normal mission down state and the archon down state as the same thing.  Normal mission your timer stays the same throughout and you get 4 to 6 chances, Archons you only get that one timer which will decrease in time each time the person goes down. So while similar they don't have the same rules, thus what I think they should add wouldn't need to apply. 

 

Still not sure why people are against an optional thing that could be added to the archon fights specifically so if you or a squamate get taken out and can't get rezed it gives the option for the rest of the squad to do something extra to give you another shot.  They could still opt to leave you down, or they could be nice and help out.  Maybe I just like my friends more than you do but I was frustrated that he died when I couldn't do anything to rez him even due to what felt like a cheap shot, I would glad risk doing something extra with an Archon around to get them back into that fight rather than just having them drop and restarting.  Getting to pull off those clutch saves can make fun or interesting stories/memories. 

[Toa_Ignika]

12 minutes ago, yarl5000 said:

I mention void sling because I tried to just walk in void mode, didn't work so I tried to sling in that didn't work, walking in didn't work.  It wasn't an issue of not being able to revive fast enough it was the issue of for the whole time they were downed the AOE pushback from the Archon did not let anything get close to the downed teammate.  

I don't view the normal mission down state and the archon down state as the same thing.  Normal mission your timer stays the same throughout and you get 4 to 6 chances, Archons you only get that one timer which will decrease in time each time the person goes down. So while similar they don't have the same rules, thus what I think they should add wouldn't need to apply. 

 

Still not sure why people are against an optional thing that could be added to the archon fights specifically so if you or a squamate get taken out and can't get rezed it gives the option for the rest of the squad to do something extra to give you another shot.  They could still opt to leave you down, or they could be nice and help out.  Maybe I just like my friends more than you do but I was frustrated that he died when I couldn't do anything to rez him even due to what felt like a cheap shot, I would glad risk doing something extra with an Archon around to get them back into that fight rather than just having them drop and restarting.  Getting to pull off those clutch saves can make fun or interesting stories/memories. 

No clue why that happened to you with Void mode, to me it sounds like you encounter a bug ? I didn't see soemthing like that happening and I sure had to do a lot of revive/ getting revive (dumb me losing all my health with Desecrate from Nekros and not doing anything to get my health back) on the latest instance of Boreal even with all kind of AoE he did.

I do find that the decreasing timer is a bit harsh, but from what I got, the point of the single revive and the lowered timer is to give some means to death and some fail component to the mission. Kinda some difficulty even if using invisible or invincble frames make that component of the mission irrevelent (but that's an issue present in the rest of the game with these frame too).

My issue with adding a revive system similar to the Arbitration, and have both systems. It's basically adding another failsafe to one of the only few endgame content we have (one of the few mission that are supposed to be harder). Would you be fine if the revive timer was  maybea bit shorter than in regular mission but with no timer decrease and still with only 1 life? Or would you prefer if it was straigth in Arbitration with no dying state and with the possibility to revive your teammate ?

[iHaku]

honestly, there shouldnt be any revives preriod in warframe. maybe +1/2/3 revives for the team, per missing player to gives groups that arent full / solo players some help, but having 6 revives, the new last stand mechanic, aswell as ally revives basically means its impossible to ever die in this game. and you what? that's not very fun in my oppinion. there's no tension. no reason to build defensively. even in SP i usually just slap on  adaptation and call it a day. the game even gives you immortality on shieldbreak that you can use to get really immortal via operator into voidmode switch.

if i go down now and then, who cares? there's literally zero downside to beign downed in this game. they might aswell just have made players immortal to begin with. so i'm fairly happy with team revive only.

[Uhkretor]

... Revives should've never been restocked per mission, but per day or no revives at all...

DE, make it happen. So many people are revealing so many bad habits because of that "per mission" restock. 🤣

[yarl5000]

1 hour ago, Toa_Ignika said:

No clue why that happened to you with Void mode, to me it sounds like you encounter a bug ? I didn't see soemthing like that happening and I sure had to do a lot of revive/ getting revive (dumb me losing all my health with Desecrate from Nekros and not doing anything to get my health back) on the latest instance of Boreal even with all kind of AoE he did.

I do find that the decreasing timer is a bit harsh, but from what I got, the point of the single revive and the lowered timer is to give some means to death and some fail component to the mission. Kinda some difficulty even if using invisible or invincble frames make that component of the mission irrevelent (but that's an issue present in the rest of the game with these frame too).

My issue with adding a revive system similar to the Arbitration, and have both systems. It's basically adding another failsafe to one of the only few endgame content we have (one of the few mission that are supposed to be harder). Would you be fine if the revive timer was  maybea bit shorter than in regular mission but with no timer decrease and still with only 1 life? Or would you prefer if it was straigth in Arbitration with no dying state and with the possibility to revive your teammate ?

Yeah it might have been more of a buggy interaction, idk.  Either way that is why it felt cheap, I tried everything I could think of but couldn't get there in time.

If I had to pick between those two, rather just do the arbitration style in archon hunts. Might be harsher in some regards but doesn't change that much for the downed person as they still gotta trust their teammate to get them back in but can give the team a bit to plan around how to get them back up rather than just timer dash. 

[Redwyrm]

10 hours ago, yarl5000 said:

Similar to how if someone goes down in Arbitrations you can take on the rez tokens but they impact your frame's health, shields, and energy. 

Arbitration always an endless mission, encouraging players to stay and keep fighting. Archon mission are just have to be completed. You can just wait until other players complete it, or quit and try again. both options are more than viable.

[Redwyrm]

7 hours ago, iHaku said:

honestly, there shouldnt be any revives preriod in warframe. maybe +1/2/3 revives for the team, per missing player to gives groups that arent full / solo players some help, but having 6 revives, the new last stand mechanic, aswell as ally revives basically means it's impossible to ever die in this game. and you what? that's not very fun in my oppinion. there's no tension. no reason to build defensively. even in SP i usually just slap on  adaptation and call it a day. the game even gives you immortality on shieldbreak that you can use to get really immortal via operator into voidmode switch.

if i go down now and then, who cares? there's literally zero downside to being downed in this game. they might aswell just have made players immortal to begin with. so i'm fairly happy with team revive only.

At very least it would be nice if DE would bring additional "mutators" to missions, with no revives, but additional reward if you succeed.

DE also should really start monitoring popularity of their content. Look at Steel Path Void Fissures, now everyone doing those, instead of normal ones. How much more SP you have to add, DE, to convince you that players want SP on everything? As well as overall making game content more challenging, and not other way around, as you keep doing it.

[Frendh]

On 2022-10-01 at 5:29 PM, GourangaPL said:

No revives sucks. It needs to be changed. My suggestion is: make it work like in arbitration, when you're dead allies must revive you, let's say by bringing you 10 sentient cores or whatever, and to prevent people from ignoring randoms make it extraction won't work for anyone untill there's anyone down.

It is fine the way it is. I consider the difficulty is too low for what the reward is. It is for just one tiny part of the game that you have to deal with this specific revive system. Hardly a big deal.

[scout104]

Its supper cool with a mission that dont have revive, gives the late gamers more fun, and a challenge for the others.. HAving a hard time with the mission, maybe you need to look over your builds/weapons... its not always wrong with the game/mission

[(PSN)Gamblingman83]

Honestly the simple fact of the bug I had makes me agree. Twice now when I've been revived I couldn't control anything but movement with my frame. No transferace, aim, shoot, nothing. I had to die to regain control. That doesn't work in the hunt for obvious reasons