Zephyr's tornadoes break and lose their hitboxes after receiving 500.000 object damage

[VibingCat]

In multiplayer, whether or not I'm hosting, sometimes the tornadoes stop working properly and the projectiles I shoot at them seem to disappear without dealing any damage. This issue appears to be more noticeable when slow fire-rate weapons are used, especially Nataruk. The frequency of this bug is horribly high, such that in every multiplayer game I often end up shooting several times in a row without accomplishing anything.

In addition, the damage buff from galvanized aptitude, savvy and shot isn't applied to enemies affected by the tornadoes; maybe it is intended so? 

Edited October 26, 2023 by VibingCat

[[DE]Purzzle]

Hiho, we just checked Zephyr Tornadoes with the Nataruk and it worked fine for us. (both for host and client)

Could you share more information about your issue? Like do you have problems switching the element of the Tornadoes? (they switch to the element the absorb the most)
Or do the enemies trapped in them not properly take damage?

Cheers!

[NoNit3mare]

similar issue here, the tornadoes lose their elemental visual effect and just stop distributing damage to the enemies caught in them. after a few trumna alt fires i have to recast the ability if i want to deal any damage

[Kadesfy]

Zephyr tornadoes redistribute the damage they receive to the enemies caught by their radius, but after certain damage is received, the specific tornado loses its hitboxes, the remaining ones continue to have it, but will also lose it after receiving enough damage.

[VibingCat]

On 2022-11-10 at 5:22 PM, [DE]Purzzle said:

Hiho, we just checked Zephyr Tornadoes with the Nataruk and it worked fine for us. (both for host and client)

Could you share more information about your issue? Like do you have problems switching the element of the Tornadoes? (they switch to the element the absorb the most)
Or do the enemies trapped in them not properly take damage?

Cheers!

I don't know about the element type, this bug is quite unpredictable: sometimes it doesn't occur for the first twenty-thirty minutes of the mission, then all of a sudden (without any apparent reason) it becomes frequent. Other times, it happens much earlier. There exists a correlation with ping, perhaps? In addition, it seems that recasting the tornadoes will temporarily fix the problem, but new tornadoes may likely get bugged as well. As someone correctly pointed out, the issue is that damage is not redirected from any point of the tornadoes, therefore the result is that enemies are simply pulled and lifted. They may be attacked directly with no buffs from the tornadoes.

Further testing showed me that Nataruk is definitely not the problem, nor fire rate: the bug was consistent also on my Twin Stubbas such that none of their projectiles would get redirected, and many other different weapons. 

[Traumtulpe]

On 2022-11-10 at 5:22 PM, [DE]Purzzle said:

Hiho, we just checked Zephyr Tornadoes with the Nataruk and it worked fine for us. (both for host and client)

Could you share more information about your issue? Like do you have problems switching the element of the Tornadoes? (they switch to the element the absorb the most)
Or do the enemies trapped in them not properly take damage?

Cheers!

If you are actually looking into Tornado, could you consider making them immortal? Might be related to OP's issue, Tornadoes have hitpoints and can die - when they do, they visually remain but cease to have any effect. About 2 heavy attacks from a properly modded Stropha should suffice to kill a Tornado.

[VibingCat]

4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

If you are actually looking into Tornado, could you consider making them immortal? Might be related to OP's issue, Tornadoes have hitpoints and can die - when they do, they visually remain but cease to have any effect. About 2 heavy attacks from a properly modded Stropha should suffice to kill a Tornado.

This... this is the reason, thank you for finding the answer I was looking for. I wasn't aware that tornadoes stop redirecting damage after receiving 500,000 damage as the Wiki says — that was unexpected and counterintuitive. I thought we were dealing with a bug, now I believe it's no more than a terrible idea, with all due respect. So I'm just going to wish for the change you suggested. 

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

[...]

Oh, I didn't know the wiki had details on that. I reported that behavior as a bug on the same day Tornado was reworked (along with other bugs, such as Tornado killing Zehyr herself...), unfortunately DE decided to not change anything about that. I shrugged it off as just another ability that will forever remain bugged.

[VibingCat]

Zephyr doesn't have too many users around, why not give her this little "buff"? The fact that dealing a certain amount to the tornadoes prevents them from working is such an unjust punishment that sets a limit to endurance runs.

They're also bugged in that sometimes they reduce the critical tier of shots, for example I was playing with Nataruk's perfect shots knowing very well that my crits could be either orange or red thanks to several buffs (Arcane Avenger, Zephyr's passive, Critical Delay, etc.). Nonetheless, sometimes they ended up yellow, as long as the damage was redirected. I haven't yet checked whether this bug is visual or not. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by VibingCat
Typo

[Traumtulpe]

I suppose I might repeat another suggestion I had in regard to Tornado: Currently, when you cast the mobile version of Tornado, all Tornadoes will spawn at random enemies within range - even if you target at a group of enemies right in front of you, that group will usually not get a Tornado. Since I have high range, I oftentimes don't even see where they spawn.

So, if the player is targeting something while casting the mobile Tornadoes, could we get one Tornado to actually spawn at the target?

[BR31]

honestly just make them immortal

[VibingCat]

On 2022-11-29 at 7:32 PM, BR31 said:

honestly just make them immortal

That would really fix the issue. Is there a way to tag a developer? 

[Ulseth]

AoE weapons equipped on the crew on-call specter/summon sometimes seem to disable ALL tornadoes at the same time, not allowing you to damage enemies by shooting the tornadoes, but also not allowing you to shoot through the tornadoes to hit enemies directly... This bug is nothing short of a nightmare at times, especially when there's a lot more enemies with higher effective HP than usual, like in the Steel Path.

[Sylonus]

Just wanted to chime in and say this is still an issue, dealing enough damage "kills" the ability for the tornados to redirect damage.

[elaphe_]

In multiplayer, when I'm not hosting, zephyr's tornados have occasionally been unable to transfer damage and are basically rendered useless. Unsure what causes this, but there's also the much more frequent and replicable issue of the tornados dying when they take in too much damage which I would love to have a fix for.

[VibingCat]

11 hours ago, coco_koala said:

In multiplayer, when I'm not hosting, zephyr's tornados have occasionally been unable to transfer damage and are basically rendered useless. Unsure what causes this, but there's also the much more frequent and replicable issue of the tornados dying when they take in too much damage which I would love to have a fix for.

When a tornado takes 500,000 total damage or more, it stops redirecting damage.  It is not a bug but an ugly hidden feature I wish were removed. 

[Sylonus]

1 minute ago, VibingCat said:

When a tornado takes 500,000 total damage or more, it stops redirecting damage.  It is not a bug but an ugly hidden feature I wish were removed. 

To be fair we're not technically sure if it's a bug, unintended feature, or intended feature, only DE knows that, but we sure know it's annoying.

[VibingCat]

13 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

To be fair we're not technically sure if it's a bug, unintended feature, or intended feature, only DE knows that, but we sure know it's annoying.

And I'm going to keep this topic active until DE does something. 

[Traumtulpe]

On 2022-12-05 at 3:18 PM, Sylonus said:

To be fair we're not technically sure if it's a bug, unintended feature, or intended feature, only DE knows that, but we sure know it's annoying.

I believe it is meant to be a failsafe, because Tornado also had weird behavior with some things like Gas procs (which would cause a feedback loop for ridiculous damage). Of course Pablo failed to take into account that 500k damage is nothing in this game - even if you hit a Tornado for 500k, if the targets inside of it are heavily armored Steel Path Grineer, the Tornado is the only thing that's going to die lol.

[Sylonus]

10 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I believe it is meant to be a failsafe, because Tornado also had weird behavior with some things like Gas procs (which would cause a feedback loop for ridiculous damage). Of course Pablo failed to take into account that 500k damage is nothing in this game - even if you hit a Tornado for 500k, if the targets inside of it are heavily armored Steel Path Grineer, the Tornado is the only thing that's going to die lol.

Seems like a plausible explanation, but still speculation!

[DesTerT]

В 06.12.2022 в 18:30, Sylonus сказал:

Seems like a plausible explanation, but still speculation!

I presume that the problem is in the tornado's health points, since when shooting at tornadoes with different weapons, it led to a bug (I checked for:Phage,Stropha,Redeemer).
Phage:

 https://postimg.cc/y3ndPkM2 breaks tornado

https://postimg.cc/nMfmdjWm does not break torano 

In the first case, the dps was large, as a result, the tornado stopped taking damage.In the second case, the weapon's dps was lowered and the tornado worked stably.

In the video phage with ~high DPS

UPD: Noticed that if you put a lot of power ability, the tornado does not break, Lol

 

 

It is impossible to use the skill at a high level, since with a couple of shots the skill stops working, because of its small hp

Edited December 25, 2022 by DesTerT

[Orokin]

long-standing bug: 

 

[VibingCat]

Couldn't we simply remove any limit of damage the tornadoes can resist before breaking? We already have ability duration and nullifiers, I think there isn't any need to condemn Zephyr to low-level missions because of this hidden characteristic.

[VibingCat]

The damage cap is 500,000 according to Wikipedia. This is a dumb feature (?) that every Zephyr fan like me wishes to remove, all we can do is wait for an understanding developer to listen to us. There are at least three other posts mentioning this semi-bug, including mine.

[Ulseth]

Could this please be fixed? It's hilariously easy to reproduce with slow weapons that do a lot of damage per hit, or with rapid fire automatic weapons, and I'm willing to bet it's easy to reproduce with anything else.

This has already been reported multiple times, for MONTHS now, it's time to fix it.

What the bug is: shooting Zephyr's tornadoes too much disables your ability to continue shooting them unless you re-cast the ability.

How to reproduce: Shoot Zephyr's tornadoes. It's easier than it sounds.

Desired outcome: You shoot Zephyr's tornadoes without them breaking in a way that doesn't allow you to shoot them anymore, unless you re-cast.

The fact that people have been researching this one bug so much that we now know you need to do exactly 500,000 damage to each tornado to make them stop functioning, and then add said information to the Warframe Wiki while DE pretends like the issue doesn't even exist is mind boggling to me.