This gameplay shown by Pablo doesn’t get me excited.

[Felsagger]

Yep, the chopping rock is not the same as the shopping rock. A letter condemned that post of mine. 

 

Such is life. 

Let me read my proper roasting. 

49 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

Ugh, if there's one punishment worse than the chopping block, it's the shopping rock.

For those that don't know, this is an ancient punishment method from Canada, dating back to 1991:

The punishment is to take a rock shopping, you aren't allowed to leave until you get everything the rock wants but you're not allowed to see the list and trying to deal with figuring things out by talking to the rock is quite hard. On top of that, they send you to Costco at like 11:30 in the morning on a Sunday to do the shopping.

Legend has it that Bonnie Ross jumped out of the second story window by herself after failing to buy the rock the right kind of milk for the 6th time in a row. 

She was perfectly fine, but it gave everyone quite a fright.

[L3512]

I see we are completely mis-remembering the issue Elden Ring had on launch and the fact that to this day, like all souls games, Elden Ring is a barely functional PC port when it comes to KB+M function.

Elden Ring is of course a great game and deserved the awards it received, I personally also like to see Fromsoft succeed as they make a game as they want instead of trying to cater to everyone.

Before trumpeting the financial success of Elden Ring, there is the depressing fact that FIFA Ultimate Team probably beat out Elden Ring on microtransactions alone so people might start to wonder why make a really good game when you can just sell S#&$ to idiots.

[Circle_of_Psi]

16 hours ago, Felsagger said:

However I will always be critical about the things I like and I don't like. Don't change your ways either. We don't need to convince anyone. We only converse about video games and the things we enjoy and we do not enjoy. 

I entirely understand you. There are some individuals that puts up a real fight if you disagree with them. 

Indeed, I'll stay the same no matter what and if it upsets people, then so be it, I have always had the mindset in the back of my mind that, folks who do try to put up a fight, won't last in an actual fight, without their keyboards. (but then again, that being said the same to me lol, ya'll can never win Dx)

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Anyway, Let see how hard DE messes this one up or get a fair release. Besides they have a lot of pressure on this one. If they mess this up to RailJack levels the criticism will be intense. I would not want to be in their shoes if the whole thing goes south. Look how bad Halo Infinite did. 343i got to the shopping rock. The head of Bonnie Ross rolled among other higher ups in 343i.  

To be fair, I will be sitting here waiting for that to happen and it'll kinda be like a "Hey I told you so" to a lot of people here that know of me, but I highly doute that this update will do that, all we have to do now is wait for how long they can stick to their dates (again..).

So, time to bust out the popcorn and watch.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You wrote a false claim here.  "Even Elden Ring got released in a horrible state, like most every game these days."

That's completely false. 

This claim is false twice and still you insist in it. 

The game was launched in a satisfactory state. 

I'm afraid that's correct. 

In the gaming industry you forgot that the size of the contribution matters. Each time From Software releases, they add something new to the already existing formula. Quality is always the important factor here. 

In other previous posts you stated that Warframe is a grinding game. 

The whole community here calls it a grinding game. If you think otherwise you are free to do so. 

Interchangeable? I'm afraid you are correct again. You think that Warframe in your mind is compatible with your comparisons with WoW for example. See how words are used there? 

I don't have performance issue with Warframe in my PS5. The game Warframe runs perfectly fine in the PS5. 

No one knows what they can do or not. You are absolutely correct there. However when you want to cause a good first impression, you show material that is in a satisfactory state. 

SImple. 

They are. It's the first impression that you will cause to the public. 

You can't turn on that dime, Ervin. It is impossible even with a MAZDA, lol. 

It is? Last time I checked horrible performance does not get a pass. Which was the case for Elden Ring with very fluctuating performance, much like BF2142 aswell as the HZD port to PC among other games. Or maybe you are blinded by console eyes and dont care about the shoddy state of PC versions? Which is not the same as a game being released in a satisfactory state, it just means you are narrow minded.

FromSoftware has added nothing to the combat concept though, they add to their own systems that make souls games what they are. The combat itself is on a rather simplistic side, which is pretty much what Duviri and Soulframe are going back to instead of using the hyped up combat of warframes, which is more similar to the fast combat of DMC and combo based games like Black Desert. Although in BD the combo system doesnt only apply to melee, it applies to every form of skill cast, where you can simplify some skill at the penalty of a higher casting cost.

I've never stated Warframe was a grinding game. I've stated it is a farming game, which turns into a grind if you do not enjoy it. Just as building an army for table top games or going to work can be a grind if you are in for a task you do not like, like assembling and painting a full regiment of generic trash soldiers that require no interesting techniques or having to clean the stairs in an apartment complex. And if the "whole" community calls it that, that "whole" community doesnt enjoy farming/collecting. There are parts in WF I find are a grind, like MR, which is why I dont focus on it, since for me it is a grind to have to level weapons I dont want to use only in order to get MR. But the actual gameplay for me is not a grind, since I enjoy it, otherwise I wouldnt do it as a hobby for as many hours as I have.

Yes a redundant use of words, And not the way you actually used it to begin with.

So if you dont have issues, why do you make claims of unplayable updates?

We werent even talking first impressions there. We were talking about them stopping development of content to rework other parts of the game. Please try and keep up with what you are talking about yourself.

Please try and comprehend what is written infront of you. No, early fotage is not ment to be first impressions, early fotage is to show people who are interested what is being done, how they think, what they might wanna do with a project. That you take it as an intended first impression and dont really get why it is released is all on you and you alone.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is? Last time I checked horrible performance does not get a pass. Which was the case for Elden Ring with very fluctuating performance, much like BF2142 aswell as the HZD port to PC among other games. Or maybe you are blinded by console eyes and dont care about the shoddy state of PC versions? Which is not the same as a game being released in a satisfactory state, it just means you are narrow minded.

FromSoftware has added nothing to the combat concept though, they add to their own systems that make souls games what they are. The combat itself is on a rather simplistic side, which is pretty much what Duviri and Soulframe are going back to instead of using the hyped up combat of warframes, which is more similar to the fast combat of DMC and combo based games like Black Desert. Although in BD the combo system doesnt only apply to melee, it applies to every form of skill cast, where you can simplify some skill at the penalty of a higher casting cost.

I've never stated Warframe was a grinding game. I've stated it is a farming game, which turns into a grind if you do not enjoy it. Just as building an army for table top games or going to work can be a grind if you are in for a task you do not like, like assembling and painting a full regiment of generic trash soldiers that require no interesting techniques or having to clean the stairs in an apartment complex. And if the "whole" community calls it that, that "whole" community doesnt enjoy farming/collecting. There are parts in WF I find are a grind, like MR, which is why I dont focus on it, since for me it is a grind to have to level weapons I dont want to use only in order to get MR. But the actual gameplay for me is not a grind, since I enjoy it, otherwise I wouldnt do it as a hobby for as many hours as I have.

Yes a redundant use of words, And not the way you actually used it to begin with.

So if you dont have issues, why do you make claims of unplayable updates?

We werent even talking first impressions there. We were talking about them stopping development of content to rework other parts of the game. Please try and keep up with what you are talking about yourself.

 

I'll deliberately change the subject and label it. ;3

 

Some people have doubts about Duviri because is a radical change and approach to what DE has being doing before. We somehow are skeptic, pessimists and naysayers. Yes, I am in that bag of potatoes being the same clueless moron. Even tho sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't. Should I beg for a better game in the process? Meh, yeah why not? Somehow I have expectations and get frustrated, somehow I get a good surprise and almost a gift that I do not deserve. 

Well, my experience with FromSoftware is a good one. But not everything was green. There were moments when things went south. At least I got good patches and a good experience with the past games. I don't trust anyone but their track record of good games is hard to ignore. I was never a soul borne player but ended up being one. Got almost all their games in the process understanding why their games where acclaimed. Once I got into the experience knew why From Software are good at their craftsmanship. 

Well, Ervin, on many things you are right. Elden Ring is not new and so the set of games Bloodburne, Sekiro, Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3. the Bluepoint remake of Daemon Souls. Their ideas are not new, From Software studied the genre doing some progress throughout each new iteration. At least their market served well. They built with hard work a community, a player base and a way of designing games. Every time I see their name, I know exactly what quality I will get out of the box. 

If you do not like Elden Ring or haven't played it. You don't have to play it. But you are missing a lot there. At least give it a try. I was very skeptic with the game but never realised how good the experience was. It's about skill, thinking ahead and of course the unexpected surprise of being defeated. At least I enjoyed that. I know it's not for everybody but give it a try. 

If warframe is a GRINDING game or not? Are you still debating that one? Oh ok, I think everybody knows that Warframe is a grinding game. I've seen people, many people referring to this game as a grinder. In my ten years, I call warframe a grinder, that one is hard to miss. It's hard to miss. If you do not want that name then find another. Usually that's how people sees the game. On that dime if you want to turn, go ahead, Turning over that small dime is hard. Good luck with the steering wheel. 

Farming and grinding are two different words for sure, you got that one right. I've seen people using one and the other making the distinctions without the confusion. Some players gets annoyed by the time it takes getting some resources using the adjective grinding. If it is or isn't it's up to you. In this one I'll not convince you. Think anything you like. It doesn't change what we have in front of us. 

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Please try and comprehend what is written infront of you. No, early fotage is not ment to be first impressions, early fotage is to show people who are interested what is being done, how they think, what they might wanna do with a project. That you take it as an intended first impression and dont really get why it is released is all on you and you alone.

This one is funny. 

It's call marketing, Ervin. You can't make a good impression twice. It's impossible, that is your chance. What was shown in that video sucked ass, period. That's it. Sorry for being this blunt. Why should you show something that is not satisfactory despite if people wants to see it? Yes, it's a work in progress but haven't we heard that same excuse for a span of ten years? Oh man...

That build will not change much when the game is about to release soon. I would be deeply surprised if such game where revealed using Unreal engine version 5.0 or greater. You are free to believe anything you want. Well I guess that applies for me too. :D

 

 

 

 

[ShogunGunshow]

Can't fix the base game, they let the power creep get too out of control for too long. Making a completely different game is the only answer. 

[Felsagger]

22 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Can't fix the base game, they let the power creep get too out of control for too long. Making a completely different game is the only answer. 

They don't know how to get out of their own soop they got into for the last ten years. That's the only choice. Throw away everything and start all over again GOING WITH THE SAME HABITS OF BEING DE. 

It doesn't matter how many ideas and tabula rasa moments the developer has, if the development team don't improve the management of human resources and get rid of the bad habits they will REPEAT for ten more years the SAME warframe experience in SOUL FRAME. 

 

Period. 

The old saying applies here. "Old dog can't learn new tricks." If the old dog wants new tricks he must change his habits.....;3

[ShogunGunshow]

Yes in Soulframe if anyone starts talking about mods that add triple digits to anything they should have their hands slapped away from the keyboard.

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Yes in Soulframe if anyone starts talking about mods that add triple digits to anything they should have their hands slapped away from the keyboard.

That should be a BANNABLE offense if any user EVEN DARES TO THINK about power creeping. DE should include that in the Terms of Service. :P (/sarcasm)

 

The son, niece and daughter of DE are the RNG, POWER CREEPING and their old graphic engine where everything suffers from the ULTRA MEGA GRAPHIC CLIPPING of weapons, environment and characters among many other things. If DE doesn't get rid of those three bad habits, prepare yourself for TEN MORE years of the same with a different name.

 

I will simply stay out of that loop. 

[tabernacl]

that video in OP's post... just wow. Why does it feel like DE is devolving as game developers. very strange how power devs like Steve who was the previous creative director know what the problems were/are but decide to sweep under the rug and create new shiny toy. The art team carried this game in the past and they still are. If this stuff didn't look so good a lot more ppl would realise how ridiculous this game is. No innovation left in DE. Not surprising, many game systems/concepts in Warframe are just stolen systems from other games, no matter the genre. Would be cool if they at least updated their engine or code. AI is still like 15-20 yrs outdated. 

[Felsagger]

6 minutes ago, tabernacl said:

that video in OP's post... just wow. Why does it feel like DE is devolving as game developers. very strange how power devs like Steve who was the previous creative director know what the problems were/are but decide to sweep under the rug and create new shiny toy. The art team carried this game in the past and they still are. If this stuff didn't look so good a lot more ppl would realise how ridiculous this game is. No innovation left in DE. Not surprising, many game systems/concepts in Warframe are just stolen systems from other games, no matter the genre. Would be cool if they at least updated their engine or code. AI is still like 15-20 yrs outdated. 

I disagree in this vision of doom and gloom. I no longer share this view. 

416 individuals EXIST in a building that includes Steve and Ross among many other users. 

They CAN get out of this mess. I stopped being a pessimist. They can solve Warframe, they can make it better, they have the TENCENT money to push things at the level of good development teams out there. They MUST abandon their old engine and work with Unreal Engine 5. They can simply add more powerful enemies to the mix and make enemy engagement way better. they can add vehicles and new type of enemies. 

Are they interested? This is my main question. They have the hardware, the programs, the people, the building, the money and the experience. They need LOVE and PASSION for the project they made. DE must believe more on what they have done and improve it. Backing down and doing U turns will not solve anything if they do not get rid of their crutches such as the old engine, power creeping and the RNG. Of course they can 

Let me give you a taste of how Warframe would look with better graphics. 

 

[ShogunGunshow]

Gonna say I don't give a toss about Warframe's graphics.

And I think it's weird to say that DE has no innovation. Arguably it has too much. But I think a huge part of why you see DE go so outside of the box is that the devs don't seem as invested in the core experience as they used to be. It seems like the best way they've found to keep themselves entertained is to go wild with experimentation and try different things, when most people would just be happy to have them knuckle down on shooting hordes of dudes in hallways.

Which is a bummer because I see the passion here. And I would love, love a character-action game spinoff set in the Warframe universe done by DE. I just don't want it ... you know ... bolted onto Warframe.

[cute_moth.npc]

6 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Can't fix the base game, they let the power creep get too out of control for too long. Making a completely different game is the only answer. 

I'm not sure that they have ever legitimately tried to fix the base game.

They rarely adjust the true top end gear and usually just make adjustments when something is hitting grotesque play numbers or being used in an exploitive manner for AFKing. Instead of getting balance from the ends, we often feel like we are being balanced from the middle where they're picking things to adjust based on not liking how they work instead of where they sit in the heirarchy.

They rarely experiment with any kind of increase in difficulty beyond some number bumps and never go back to fix their "end game" modes like Arbitrations when clear design flaws inhibit the challenge the mode is supposed to make (or scale the mode up to meet "end game" levels as the years go on) - high level modes are basically all time gated or limited and offered very seldomly (fixed a little bit over the last year but please keep working on it - Archon Hunts for example have modifiers that actually make you stay near your team a bit and conserve energy, but we only get that once a week for a few minutes?). Evergreen game modes have had the same maps and modes in them for years even though we literally have new maps and modes they could tap into and have for a long time.

They never seem to do revisions to the revisions so when they do an oopsie and make one status type far stronger than the others, there's seemingly no going back to fix it while it's still fresh.. The same story with damage attenuation (revision coming after Veilbreaker??), AoE changes (revision mentioned, never followed through on), it's like stuff gets a quick pass and it's done.

There have been like.. 2 attempts I can think of to address the main game with AoE changes and Overguard in the last year which are nice but they would need to keep moving on it and making progress, rather than sporadically making a change here or there.

I recognize that there's a sentiment that the power creep has been out of control for a long time and that's definitely true, but I don't think that D.E. has actually really tried enough to conclude that they can't, to me I just get signals that they're not really interested in trying to find out if they can.

[Felsagger]

21 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

 

And I think it's weird to say that DE has no innovation.

Tabernacl was the one who wrote that. I think DE could improve in their own game. They just don't want to do it. It feels like they are just throwing. 

21 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

I would love, love a character-action game spinoff set in the Warframe universe done by DE. I just don't want it ... you know ... bolted onto Warframe.

I agree on that to a certain degree. Warframe is their business for the last ten years. They are safe there from the competition because no one else does this. But if they try other things where for example Guerrilla Games or From Software are experts, they will have a rough start trying to even get the fundamentals right. They must redo themselves entirely as a studio if they want something else. Would be great if they leave behind their bad habits like RNG, old graphic engine and power creeping. That could literally be a game changer for them. 

Guerrilla simply rested from Killzone Franchise and got into Horizon Zero. That trade was a complete success. However Guerrilla got full support form Sony and an enormous budget. 

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I'm not sure that they have ever legitimately tried to fix the base game.

They rarely adjust the true top end gear and usually just make adjustments when something is hitting grotesque play numbers or being used in an exploitive manner for AFKing. Instead of getting balance from the ends, we often feel like we are being balanced from the middle where they're picking things to adjust based on not liking how they work instead of where they sit in the hierarchy.

They rarely experiment with any kind of increase in difficulty beyond some number bumps and never go back to fix their "end game" modes like Arbitrations when clear design flaws inhibit the challenge the mode is supposed to make (or scale the mode up to meet "end game" levels as the years go on) - high level modes are basically all time gated or limited and offered very seldomly (fixed a little bit over the last year but please keep working on it). Evergreen game modes have had the same maps and modes in them for years even though we literally have new maps and modes they could tap into and have for a long time.

They never seem to do revisions to the revisions so when they do an oopsie and make one status type far stronger than the others, there's seemingly no going back to fix it while it's still fresh.. The same story with damage attenuation (promised for revision over a year ago), AoE changes (revision mentioned, never followed through on), it's like stuff gets a quick pass and it's done.

There have been like.. 2 attempts I can think of to address the main game with AoE changes and Overguard in the last year which are nice but they would need to keep moving on it and making progress, rather than sporadically making a change here or there.

I recognize that there's a sentiment that the power creep has been out of control for a long time and that's definitely true, but I don't think that D.E. has actually really tried enough to conclude that they can't, to me I just get signals that they're not really interested in trying to find out if they can.

 

This man gets the point. 

100 agree. 

[Aasha]

I have mixed feelings. There are times they forced me to use operator and every time I felt like it challenged my interest in continuing to play the game. But I'm still here I guess.

When I get right down to it I'll probably play it. But I'll probably just not enjoy it. It's the type of addition that I only play because essentially I have to in order to continue the game. I'd much rather just play real warframe missions.

And I know that sounds doom and gloom. but it's honestly true. The forced operator parts of this game are hit and miss based on the player.

With warframes you can't go wrong; people that played past a few days are well aware what they're in for when it comes to warframe missions. They'll enjoy it because they wouldn't be here if they didn't.

Operator mode is a completely different experience. Functionally different enough to be its own separate (far-less-popular) game. There are goign to be players that enjoy it and people that feel forced to play it. The simple fact is - for those that don't like it - operators are buried deep enough into the game that you feel like you're throwing away an investment if you don't just push through and get past the unfun part of the game. All for the sake of getting back to the good part again: the warframe.

To make an entire open world gig that's going to be pure operator is going to hurt more than it'll help. If you thought you saw too many people complaining about playing operator in Second Dream and New War for a couple hours...

[Felsagger]

Completely true. 

I do enjoy the COMBO of operator blink jumps and the warframe. You see, in combination. The game play mechanics of this DUO is complete and even feels right because the tenno or drifter does things that the warframe can't. 

This is the success of warframe in my humble opinion. DE is playing a Russian roulette with this update. If for some odd reason DE enters in the realm of reason letting us use the duo of Warframe and Tenno I would not even say a word. 

Yes, it is still possible create content for the Warframe. We are here because of that. 

[Aasha]

Yeah they're fine as a combo. The warframe has to be the main course for the meal to work though. You can fancy the ketchup up as much as you like, but it's still going to be weird without a burger.

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-03-30 at 2:51 AM, bad4youLT said:

This content islands that don't contribute or expand core gameplay do more harm then good

You prefer if things forced to be connected where stuffs require things from other contents? Let's say duviri locks some good stuffs requiring you to gather materials from three open worlds and rj, and vice versa where there are some stuff on other places requiring consumables from duviri to access, making it perpetually needed to come back?

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-03-30 at 4:31 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do people want as " feedback from enemies being hit" I play a wide range of games, so I have a lot of examples I can think of but not what others think. To give you a game I play as of recent is "Dying Light 2" and "Destiny 2" 

 

Enemies get staggered from taking hits like this

15 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

To be fair, I will be sitting here waiting for that to happen and it'll kinda be like a "Hey I told you so" to a lot of people here that know of me, but I highly doute that this update will do that, all we have to do now is wait for how long they can stick to their dates (again..)

Considering I knew you said you'll quit Warframe if you don't get to kill lotus in the new war, I want to say "I told ya" that people are just bluffing about it

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-04-03 at 9:33 PM, Mazifet said:

Huh? What? Elden ring was released in a great state, the release version is extremely similar to the current patch, very few bugs and whatnot were present.

This article wouldn't exist if it's the case

https://www.windowscentral.com/elden-ring-known-bugs-and-launch-issues

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2023-04-01 at 9:08 PM, DebrisFlow said:

If it becomes a new weekly chore to gate-keep some powerful endgame gear like it happened with kahl mission, i'm gonna start hate it even earlier.

And if it's not needed to do regularly, it's a "content island" that "does more harm than good"

On 2023-04-01 at 9:08 PM, DebrisFlow said:

I think we all created an account because of warframe gameplay.

Define "warframe gameplay"

[Mazifet]

19 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

This article wouldn't exist if it's the case

https://www.windowscentral.com/elden-ring-known-bugs-and-launch-issues

Yes, it did have some bugs on launch (the majority of which were quickly fixed) but the comment I was responding to stated that it was released in a horrible state, which is just false.

If you compare it to something like Cyberpunk 2077's launch, which was horrible, Elden Ring's issues were minor.

[TheArmchairThinker]

You people need to chill, have some boba pizza

[Felsagger]

3 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And if it's not needed to do regularly, it's a "content island" that "does more harm than good"

Define "warframe gameplay"

 

Easy. 

Speed thrusting, combo warping and mlti jump using directional bullet jump, odd camera view positioning in simultaneous action against the enemy, melee weapon momentum impulse, fast parkour, 4 abilities combo using multiple in combination, duo game play of tenno/drifter and warframe. Mod configuration of weapons and warframe. Skill tree selection affinity of warframe and tenno.