Can we do something about this? (getting effectively denied everything in a mission)

[VENDOMINUS]

So I've been doing bounties in Zeriman and the instant the objective is complete the host leaves party which forces the host migration. Ofc this often fails and I'm left back at town as if the mission never happened, get teleported back to orbiter or return to a broken mission that can't be finished,
This means that the leaver if getting all the rewards for the work the team did, And everyone else is effectively getting punished for trying to finish the mission normally.

I've had this happen about 50% of the time in this scenario.

 

While I can understand the idea that people should be able to leave, considering how often that leads to 3 other people getting shafted seems quite unfair.

If you can't do something about the nullification of the mission due to the failed host migration, You should at least introduce a mechanic to discourage intaquit upon mission completion. Maybe a 50-75% reward decrease for the first 60 sec, after a mission objective is completed and you leave in that interval?

 

 

Even if ppl say that you should get to the exit faster, there is nothing ppl can do when the host quits 5 sec after the objective is completed.

 

 

PS: While I'm writing this I'm stuck in an exterminate mission after said bug/problem and every time I abort it I get placed right back in it. So my Limbo is stuck in limbo (hopefully the task manager will help).

Edited June 28, 2023 by VENDOMINUS

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This applies to any game with Public matches: if you're looking for a specific experience, you need to ask a friend or two (you don't need 4 elite players to do anything in game) or just get 1 or 2 people from recruit chat. 

[VENDOMINUS]

I mean it's is like a robber getting away with my loot. So I'm calling the police. (In this case the devs).

So I guess the spicific experience I'm looking for is just to not get robbed out of my time and efforts. (RNG already does that,  I don't need another 50% to get even less).

 

btw, talking about zariman, because the failed migration happens there far, far more often.

Edited June 28, 2023 by VENDOMINUS

[MutoManiac]

If you think Zariman is bad with host migration, let me introduce you to Duviri. People still leave even though they now have a way to see what their load out is like. Then they leave because it took an extra 30 seconds to do a defense wave, etc. It’s a sh!t show.

[VENDOMINUS]

Yeah, I've lost about 20% of runs in diviri. There it's usually not a problem if you get to the end though. In Zariman it is. In Diviri it got worse after the last update, So I'm guessing they'll work on that at least.

Edited June 28, 2023 by VENDOMINUS

[(PSN)Unstar]

Your post inspired me to create a post in the Feedback section for the devs; feel free to weigh in and improve upon my suggestion if you like!

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I feel like "50%" is an exaggeration

I've never seen it that bad.

 

Anyway

I either Be Host

or, Watch what the Host is doing.

Unlike other open worlds where the Host can Leave Instantly via a menu with No Warning; in Zariman they must Physically Reach the elevator to press the button.

This in fact makes Zariman much more forgiving vs prior worlds, as I can watch my minimap to see that the Host is making a beeline out, and start chasing him.

 

Overall this is actually an Improvement for Zariman; and PoE, Vallis and Deimos are bigger problems that ought to be focused on first.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

26 minutes ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

If you think Zariman is bad with host migration, let me introduce you to Duviri. People still leave even though they now have a way to see what their load out is like. Then they leave because it took an extra 30 seconds to do a defense wave, etc. It’s a sh!t show.

At least Duviri feels solo oriented so it doesn't really feel bad to play it solo. 

Zariman wants you to have teammates so you can get more pickup trophies that you need up to rank up.

[MutoManiac]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

At least Duviri feels solo oriented so it doesn't really feel bad to play it solo. 

Zariman wants you to have teammates so you can get more pickup trophies that you need up to rank up.

I’d rather play Zariman solo. I want others to help herd the sheep, goats, whatever they are and other exciting things like connecting power lines in Duviri. 😉

[VENDOMINUS]

What (PSN)haphazardl  say, is not quite true. In some missions, you can get a portal right next to where you finish or in the nest room. No amount of looking at the minimap will help you if the host goes to the exit in 2-5 sec and leaves instantly.

As for the 50%: for me it's accurate. Today it's been like 100%(3 times) of the host migrations at the end of a mission where the host leaves early. The host migration did not go well even once.

[Birdframe_Prime]

So.

I feel like this needs to be said, because a lot of players seem to be really, really confused.

Hosts leaving would, normally, completely guarantee that you cannot get any loot whatsoever. If you were to disconnect from the internet mid-mission, you would not get the rewards. This is the same thing.

Host Migration is trying to save you. Host Migration is the process that attempts to read the game-state and reconnect all the players that just had the Host leave on them, so that none of the remaining players do not lose their progress.

Is this always successful? No. It often isn't. But that can be due to a number of different reasons. For example, the Host may have been the mid-point between all three other players, and the remaining three are unable to connect to each other at that ping distance.

But this is the thing:

Warframe is coded on Peer To Peer connection. The only other format of gaming connection is Dedicated Servers, where everyone connects to a larger host and match-makes in that. And that, to be clear, is a question that was already answered. We're staying with P2P, and the only way to make that even remotely viable long term is to have a function that tries to save players when the host is disconnected for whatever reason.

It will improve. It will get better. DE have been updating the system for a decade now, and the number of dropped games has massively reduced. It will reduce even further once Cross Play is fully integrated and all the bugs have been ironed out, because you'll be able to have more local players to ensure a more stable migration process.

But...

What it really comes down to is... Some players just be like that.

Some players don't care about how we feel.

Some players just want to watch the squad burn.

[VENDOMINUS]

I played several years ago, and stopped due to playing too much. Back then I can't remember ever having a host migration fail (Around the time wisp came out). Now I'm back and I'm having most of the migrations fail. How has it improved? If anything it has gotten many, many times worse.

As for the question of PTP or dedicated servers, that doesn't have anything to do with this topic. The game already asks for confirmation before you alt-F4 and try to close it with task manager on PC. It's not a stretch, To use that same delay to have the other players evacuated. OFC if the host hard crashes or DCs that's another issues, but what we're talking about here is manually leaving the squad mid mission.

[TeaHands]

41 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I played several years ago, and stopped due to playing too much. Back then I can't remember ever having a host migration fail (Around the time wisp came out). Now I'm back and I'm having most of the migrations fail. How has it improved? If anything it has gotten many, many times worse.

As for the question of PTP or dedicated servers, that doesn't have anything to do with this topic. The game already asks for confirmation before you alt-F4 and try to close it with task manager on PC. It's not a stretch, To use that same delay to have the other players evacuated. OFC if the host hard crashes or DCs that's another issues, but what we're talking about here is manually leaving the squad mid mission.

Do you have Crossplay on? Online play got really buggy after that started.

[VENDOMINUS]

I don't remember if there was crossplay back then. Atm I should have it up, since I see ppl with different icons next to their names

[TeaHands]

4 minutes ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I don't remember if there was crossplay back then. Atm I should have it up, since I see ppl with different icons next to their names

Not if you stopped playing around Wisp's release. Crossplay is still pretty new, definitely leads to more issues when playing pubs, and it sucks because if you turn it off, you probably won't find many players to squad up with.

[stormy505]

I think a lot of the issue would be fixed if they still had the 1 minute extraction on the zariman. It would be a bandaid fix for sure, but right now I can't even leave with the host to avoid the issues. At least with circuit, if a host leaves at the end of a rotation you can choose to leave with them, which I always do to avoid migration issues. But in zariman, you really don't have this option besides out running the host to the extraction to evac first.

Also doesn't help that you are heavily incentivized to evac asap after mission completion cause incase you aren't the host you don't want to get caught in the host migration train.

[VENDOMINUS]

I haven't had any issues with server migration following an "Stay or extract" screen yet. I'm guessing during that animation after the choices, there is enough time for the data transfer between the old and new host.

[Silligoose]

4 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

So I've been doing bounties in Zeriman and the instant the objective is complete the host leaves party which forces the host migration. Ofc this often fails and I'm left back at town as if the mission never happened, get teleported back to orbiter or return to a broken mission that can't be finished,
This means that the leaver if getting all the rewards for the work the team did, And everyone else is effectively getting punished for trying to finish the mission normally.

I've had this happen about 50% of the time in this scenario.

 

While I can understand the idea that people should be able to leave, considering how often that leads to 3 other people getting shafted seems quite unfair.

If you can't do something about the nullification of the mission due to the failed host migration, You should at least introduce a mechanic to discourage intaquit upon mission completion. Maybe a 50-75% reward decrease for the first 60 sec, after a mission objective is completed and you leave in that interval?

 

 

Even if ppl say that you should get to the exit faster, there is nothing ppl can do when the host quits 5 sec after the objective is completed.

 

 

PS: While I'm writing this I'm stuck in an exterminate mission after said bug/problem and every time I abort it I get placed right back in it. So my Limbo is stuck in limbo (hopefully the task manager will help).

Allowing hosts to instantly leave was a bad idea thought up and implemented by a group of people who clearly do not understand the community they've fostered.

One can decide for themselves how much DE actually cares about it, seeing as how it is still a mechanic now and of course the state of Duviri at launch, and even still now, speaks volumes.

[VENDOMINUS]

Seems to me that it just doesn't get enough attention. People in wf from what I can tell are pretty forgiving and focus on other stuff (farm and optimization) and don't look at the forums to complain. Heck, this is my first time actually writing here and it's only because of an accidental string of griefers. They may not intend to be. From their perspective, they're just exiting early and the rest will follow a few minutes later.

Edited June 28, 2023 by VENDOMINUS

[CephalonCarnage]

The best way to solve the host migration issue is for the host who leaves to be stuck in the host-migrating screen until the migration (ie all the game-state data) is copied to the replacement host. Then we might see impulse-control-deficent players start to have a little consideration for others and wait for them to arrive at extraction.

right now, they just bail and the whole lack of patience is certainly something Warframe needs less of in every aspect.

So make them suffer the host migration too, ensure they cannot do anything until the entire state they carry is copied to another player, and only then release them to go their way. This should be the way the game is coded anyway as I swear half of the problems with host migration is the data only being half copied across to the remaining team.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Silligoose:

Allowing hosts to instantly leave was a bad idea thought up and implemented by a group of people who clearly do not understand the community they've fostered.

One can decide for themselves how much DE actually cares about it, seeing as how it is still a mechanic now and of course the state of Duviri at launch, and even still now, speaks volumes.

Facts.

The fact people try to excuse this in 2023 when no other game has it like this is obnoxious. 

[TheReaverOfDarkness]

I just want to know why the first person to quit the mission is almost always the host.

[stormy505]

30 minutes ago, TheReaverOfDarkness said:

I just want to know why the first person to quit the mission is almost always the host.

Oh, that's usually because the first person to load in is the host, so they are usually the one doing the objective and are ahead of others. Take exterminate, for example, if you assume everyone is doing the objective and the host has a fairly solid rate of killing things they have a head start on their teammates and will finish/get the extraction portal before their teammates.

[stormy505]

11 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

right now, they just bail and the whole lack of patience is certainly something Warframe needs less of in every aspect.

I don't even blame people for doing it. Like, the fear of being at the end of the chain of host migrations where it has to transfer 3 times before you get to leave is reason enough to leave before others get the chance to force a host migration in case you aren't the host.

Like, if this was a game theory example, the dominant strategy regardless of whether you are host or not host is to leave as fast as possible because that leads to the highest pay-off in terms of time saved. 

[sunderthefirmament]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

This applies to any game with Public matches: if you're looking for a specific experience, you need to ask a friend or two (you don't need 4 elite players to do anything in game) or just get 1 or 2 people from recruit chat. 

This is largely true, but DE should still do something about the grief button in the Zariman.  That instant extraction elevator button gives impatient hosts the freedom to, in all likelihood, nullify the rewards and progress of the rest of the team.  I would like to see it replaced with a traditional extraction system for endless modes, or just have it auto-extract everyone.  There's no perfect solution with P2P, but it's an embarrassment that DE has allowed the host migration elevator in the Zariman to persist for as long as it has.