PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[Kaziroh]

15 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

In short, Tencent is not going to bend its knee.

Just because this fight looks unwinnable doesn't mean we are going to give up. Yes Tencent may not bend a knee but we'll try it anyway

[--LA--Vengeance]

2 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

If only everyone else did the same

Perk of not being born with 0 value for money that I could randomly throw around and not feel it at all, I guess.

[MirageKnight]

2 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

If only everyone else did the same

Count me in. Cancelled plans to buy the upcoming new ‘frame, prime access, and deluxe skins. I also cancelled plans to get the art book as well.

I intend to still play, but I refuse to financially support a company that’s willing to ignore / hand wave players with legitimate concerns.

This is coming from a 10 year veteran player that’s spent upwards of $2k mind you…and as a 10 year vet, I’m just a bit insulted that a badge that signifies 10 years of support has to be bought.

me? I’d have issued that accolade to every single player that’s stuck around and supported DE for so long.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

In short, Tencent is not going to bend its knee.

If they start losing profit margins then they'll bend a knee to the people that pay there bills if we can get even half of 190,000 people they'll start to lose 1,900,000 a week thats only counting the average player purchases of platinum if i add the people that spend more like i did around 50 to 80 dollars for prime access and fashion framers thats 9,350,000 a week

 

Thats only 190,000 people there are 34 million people that play warframe if we can get even a small percentage of that 34 million to boycott platinum and market purchases it can be a major blow to financial situations for the tencent team on the de situation giving us more leverage on the herloom situation 

[--LA--Vengeance]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

If they start losing profit margins then they'll bend a knee to the people that pay there bills if we can get even half of 190,000 people they'll start to lose 1,900,000 a week thats only counting the average player purchases of platinum if i add the people that spend more like i did around 50 to 80 dollars for prime access and fashion framers thats 9,350,000 a week

 

Thats only 190,000 people there are 34 million people that play warframe if we can get even a small percentage of that 34 million to boycott platinum and market purchases it can be a major blow to financial situations for the tencent team on the de situation giving us more leverage on the herloom situation 

Math is not mathing.

There are no 34mil players but that's the amount of made accounts. It's also never about how many play, but how many ppl and who purchases. Do you really expect that MR 5 will buy this pack (plot twist, most of them quit around this MR) or someone who is MR 20-33, ''invested'' time and money in the game?

You are a customer of both of these companies, obviously, if people go strong against something BY NOT PURCHASING STUFF THEY ARE UNHAPPY WITH, there will have to be changes made because they need/want money. If you really think only one company is responsible, while the other is like ''oh no, please don't make me live better and earn more (do I really need to explain to adults how everyone likes money, either gifted or earned when ur payout shows in ur bank account?)''. Because DE doesn't have any pack that contains X things that you don't need or want, but there are those 1-2 specific items on purpose locked behind it?

They, in fact, should have named this pack Digital Extremes. Because it sure damn is digital and extreme in price.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

19 minutes ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

Math is not mathing.

There are no 34mil players but that's the amount of made accounts. It's also never about how many play, but how many ppl and who purchases. Do you really expect that MR 5 will buy this pack (plot twist, most of them quit around this MR) or someone who is MR 20-33, ''invested'' time and money in the game?

You are a customer of both of these companies, obviously, if people go strong against something BY NOT PURCHASING STUFF THEY ARE UNHAPPY WITH, there will have to be changes made because they need/want money. If you really think only one company is responsible, while the other is like ''oh no, please don't make me live better and earn more (do I really need to explain to adults how everyone likes money, either gifted or earned when ur payout shows in ur bank account?)''. Because DE doesn't have any pack that contains X things that you don't need or want, but there are those 1-2 specific items on purpose locked behind it?

They, in fact, should have named this pack Digital Extremes. Because it sure damn is digital and extreme in price.

Pt 1 there are a total of 34 million accounts but a usual player base of usually around 2 million it can fluctuate often from 1 million to 3 million but the average is around 2 million thats still a lot /  pt 1.5 if they find it interesting they may if they don't care about money 

 

Pt 2 I think both companies are to blame but the main problem company is tencent

Pt 3 they should have written a book called the best way to lose customers and sold it with the digital exteams pack 🤣

[--LA--Vengeance]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Pt 1 there are a total of 34 million accounts but a usual player base of usually around 2 million it can fluctuate often from 1 million to 3 million but the average is around 2 million thats still a lot /  pt 1.5 if they find it interesting they may if they don't care about money 

 

Pt 2 I think both companies are to blame but the main problem company is tencent

Pt 3 they should have written a book called the best way to lose customers and sold it with the digital exteams pack 🤣

Originally in your comment you stated that the game has 34mil players, then made a whole math out of that number.
The average player number on Steam is below 40k. The game doesn't have 2mil active players, if that is what are you aiming for (just to say this right away, I'm aware that it's not only Steam counted in this but there is no way that the rest makes 1.960.000). So I really dunno where you got that number from.

Neither you nor I (or just an average Wf player) knows wassup in any of these companies and precisely how the deal between them functions, what you doing here is just pure assuming. And even if you work in that company, it doesn't mean such information would be disclosed to you.
If nothing, you have Blizzard right there with a great example of how someone started well and cared for the player base to turn into this. Not claiming DE will ever do it, but it is a possibility, as it is with any other gaming company.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

Math is not mathing.

I really REALLY didn't read this correctly at first.

^{_{You don't wanna know what I saw at first glance.}}

Edited September 22, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

1 hour ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

Originally in your comment you stated that the game has 34mil players, then made a whole math out of that number.
The average player number on Steam is below 40k. The game doesn't have 2mil active players, if that is what are you aiming for (just to say this right away, I'm aware that it's not only Steam counted in this but there is no way that the rest makes 1.960.000). So I really dunno where you got that number from.

Neither you nor I (or just an average Wf player) knows wassup in any of these companies and precisely how the deal between them functions, what you doing here is just pure assuming. And even if you work in that company, it doesn't mean such information would be disclosed to you.
If nothing, you have Blizzard right there with a great example of how someone started well and cared for the player base to turn into this. Not claiming DE will ever do it, but it is a possibility, as it is with any other gaming company.

Pt 1 Active players is 70,000 , potential active players is 2 million and total player acounts is 34 million that includes inactive accounts 

Pt 2 iv worked in financial and marketing departments before so I know a small amount about what gose on internally 

[Cerikus]

Just now, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Pt 1 Active players is 70,000 , potential active players is 2 million and total player acounts is 34 million that includes inactive accounts 

https://mmo-population.com/r/Warframe/stats

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

51 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

https://mmo-population.com/r/Warframe/stats

I must be getting different stats then from the sight and charts iv been looking at 

Im just trying to find a way to get there attention and the only language they speak is money 

[Cerikus]

Just now, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

I must be getting different stats then from the sight and charts iv been looking at 

I don't know any other reliable source unfortunately. What is good about this site is that it tracks active players and not concurrent players. 
It also pretty nicely shows how the game is steadily growing, which is something that's not aparent from other stats (steam stats for example).
Steam stats only shows the amount of the active players that are playing in a certain time period, not how many of active players is there.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 4 horas, (XBOX)toughdragon17 dijo:

If they start losing profit margins then they'll bend a knee to the people that pay there bills if we can get even half of 190,000 people they'll start to lose 1,900,000 a week thats only counting the average player purchases of platinum if i add the people that spend more like i did around 50 to 80 dollars for prime access and fashion framers thats 9,350,000 a week

 

Thats only 190,000 people there are 34 million people that play warframe if we can get even a small percentage of that 34 million to boycott platinum and market purchases it can be a major blow to financial situations for the tencent team on the de situation giving us more leverage on the herloom situation 

First of all there are 350k-500k* active players across all platforms. 

Your point is to appeal to the feelings of a video game developer but the developer can't do anything if his boss doesn't allow him to. Let's be honest, who doesn't like money? and a Chinese company that is known for squeezing every cent out of its users (and being part of the communist party) for that, is hilarious to expect that for a minority of non-buyers change something that give them much money.

According to this post the amount 5-10k players are not buying the package (myself included) or something like that at moss. In China is only the most expensive package and the Chinese and  asiatic countries are known for making unhealthy purchases in video games, 10k players who do not buy the package do not make much difference, the profit is still good... if the profit is good, why change it? 

I'm really not buying it and that's it and I don't really expect them to fix anything. Logically, they have already made their decision.  I gonna continued playing and enjoying the game and I won't let this keep me up at night. Is it an aggressive microtransaction? definitely. For my part, I will stay on the sidelines until they start monetizing rank 30 weapons or warframes with a set of mods installed and 6 forms for real money, that would be really disastrous.

Are you going to leave if they don't make a change in the packages? Go now, because it won't happen. I know and ''they'' know You will still come back sooner or later to try the newest DLC.

Have a good rest of the day.

Edited September 22, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

12 hours ago, Cerikus said:

I don't know any other reliable source unfortunately. What is good about this site is that it tracks active players and not concurrent players. 
It also pretty nicely shows how the game is steadily growing, which is something that's not aparent from other stats (steam stats for example).
Steam stats only shows the amount of the active players that are playing in a certain time period, not how many of active players is there.

(My math may be a bit off and this is pure theoretical) What I'm geting from this chart is there are 650,000 active players and the (average not ftp or prime/fashion) player will pay around 19.99 for platinum if I take 50% being ftp and prime/fashion players that gives us 50% average players 325,000 average players and we take 50/50 for those against and those for the pack thats 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack 

We take 162,000 and boycotte platinum purchases so 162,000 ×19.99 = 3,238,380 dollars a week loses in revenue and 12,953,520 losses a month 

Now if we take 325,000 non average players who pay from 4.99 39.99 a week 79.99 month and take 50/50 that's 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack then we take 162,000 50/50 for ftp players/prime fashion players 

Thats 81,000 ftp and 81,000 prime fashion players 81,000 x 4.99 = 404,190 dollers a week /1,616,760 a month and 81,000 x 39.99 = 3,239,190 a week /12,956,760 a month and 81,000 x 79.99 = 6,479,190 a month 

Adding all those together 25,915,140 dollers add the average players to that 25,915,140 + 12,953,520 = 38,907,040 dollers of loses in revenue if We could get all those people to stop buying platinum for a week to a month

 

11 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

 

Are you going to leave if they don't make a change in the packages? Go now, because it won't happen. I know and ''they'' know You will still come back sooner or later to try the newest DLC.
 

Iv alredy stopped playing the game but I will be back when the new dlc comes out but I'm not buying anything like I usually do 

Edited September 23, 2023 by (XBOX)toughdragon17
Typo

[--LA--Vengeance]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

(My math may be a bit off and this is pure theoretical) What I'm geting from this chart is there are 650,000 active players and the (average not ftp or prime/fashion) player will pay around 19.99 for platinum if I take 50% being ftp and prime/fashion players that gives us 50% average players 325,000 average players and we take 50/50 for those against and those for the pack thats 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack 

We take 162,000 and boycotte platinum purchases so 162,000 ×19.99 = 3,238,380 dollars a week loses in revenue and 12,953,520 losses a month 

Now if we take 325,000 non average players who pay from 4.99 39.99 a week 79.99 month and take 50/50 that's 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack then we take 162,000 50/50 for ftp players/prime fashion players 

 

Thats 81,000 ftp and 81,000 prime fashion players 81,000 x 4.99 = 404,190 dollers a week /1,616,760 a month and 81,000 x 39.99 = 3,239,190 a week /12,956,760 a month and 81,000 x 79.99 = 6,479,190 a month 

 

Adding all those together 25,915,140 dollers add the average players to that 25,915,140 + 12,953,520 = 38,907,040 dollers of loses in revenue if We could get all those people to stop buying platinum for a week to a month

 

 

 

Buddy, I've been trying to tell you this, but you can't get a math out of it. You would need specific data to know exactly how many and who purchases. The average Wf player def does not spend 20$ weekly, even those who did pay here and there. Then we have Tennogen, where not the entire profit goes to DE.
On top of it, where there are sheep there is wool, so you never gonna be able to convince every single player to not buy something. However, you can advise in them in talk to reconsider or not do it. A friend told me that there is a discord group for Fashionframe and that not a small number bought the pack to show it off there. Lol.

On the topic of people expecting that they might gonna add at some point just a skin for 20-30$. They won't. You have a pack that has glyph, emote nobody gonna use, title for your profile, palette, and a bit of plat for 30$. Clearly, they won't add the skin for that same amount. Don't be naive.

[Cerikus]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

(My math may be a bit off and this is pure theoretical) What I'm geting from this chart is there are 650,000 active players and the (average not ftp or prime/fashion) player will pay around 19.99 for platinum if I take 50% being ftp and prime/fashion players that gives us 50% average players 325,000 average players and we take 50/50 for those against and those for the pack thats 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack 

We take 162,000 and boycotte platinum purchases so 162,000 ×19.99 = 3,238,380 dollars a week loses in revenue and 12,953,520 losses a month 

Now if we take 325,000 non average players who pay from 4.99 39.99 a week 79.99 month and take 50/50 that's 162,000 for and 162,000 against the pack then we take 162,000 50/50 for ftp players/prime fashion players 

 

Thats 81,000 ftp and 81,000 prime fashion players 81,000 x 4.99 = 404,190 dollers a week /1,616,760 a month and 81,000 x 39.99 = 3,239,190 a week /12,956,760 a month and 81,000 x 79.99 = 6,479,190 a month 

 

Adding all those together 25,915,140 dollers add the average players to that 25,915,140 + 12,953,520 = 38,907,040 dollers of loses in revenue if We could get all those people to stop buying platinum for a week to a month

This is pure conjunction. You are just making stuff up.

I have a hard time beliving this

10 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

iv worked in financial and marketing departments before

is true. If I employed you and you started making stuff up, just so you can prove your point, I'd fire you.

[Circle_of_Psi]

14 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Count me in. Cancelled plans to buy the upcoming new ‘frame, prime access, and deluxe skins. I also cancelled plans to get the art book as well.

I intend to still play, but I refuse to financially support a company that’s willing to ignore / hand wave players with legitimate concerns.

This is coming from a 10 year veteran player that’s spent upwards of $2k mind you…and as a 10 year vet, I’m just a bit insulted that a badge that signifies 10 years of support has to be bought.

me? I’d have issued that accolade to every single player that’s stuck around and supported DE for so long.

Glad to hear it

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

This is pure conjunction. You are just making stuff up.

I have a hard time beliving this

12 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

The person literally said their stats might be off, but they are working with what they have.

 

2 hours ago, Cerikus said:

true. If I employed you and you started making stuff up, just so you can prove your point, I'd fire

Not really sure why you are being like that, unnecessary tbh.

[--LA--Vengeance]

1 hour ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

The person literally said their stats might be off, but they are working with what they have.

 

Not really sure why you are being like that, unnecessary tbh.

While it's not the nicest way to say it, it is also frustrating to see someone making up numbers after being corrected multiple times. If you go to the previous and current pages (comments above that), you can easily see what am I talking about.
He said he works in finances, then goes ahead and divides the number in half. Like... You could barely pass the math and you would know how to do this, nothing to be involved with finances.

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

The person literally said their stats might be off, but they are working with what they have.

Not really sure why you are being like that, unnecessary tbh.

I don't see a problem with saying I would fire someone who makes up random figures to prove their point.
Especially if that person claims to have worked in finances before.

Just bacause your preface your statement with "I might be wrong and this is theoretical" doesn't mean you statement cannot be scrutinized.

I actually admire @(XBOX)toughdragon17 for their persistence on this matter, because most people were either satisfied with the changes, or they stopped caring already. A lot of people will forget completely once the next update drops. Outrage lasts only like 3 weeks and memory of it lasts only like 3 months. Being able to continue the cause is admirable, but making up random stuff that's not based on any realiable info is silly.

[Stafelund]

I'm actually still here, and just waiting to see if something's gonna happen in the upcoming devstream. Just going nuts over the upcoming remake of Star Ocean 2 these days

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

13 hours ago, Cerikus said:

This is pure conjunction. You are just making stuff up.

I have a hard time beliving this

is true. If I employed you and you started making stuff up, just so you can prove your point, I'd fire you.

Bud thats why I sead my math may be off and that its pure theoretical its a theory its a theory because to get the pure format behind what I want to calculate id half to give a questionnaire to every one of the 650,000 people the chart sead was playing the game  so instead of that I did 50/50 splits and averaged out the money spent by an average player, ftp, and prime/fashion players 

 

15 hours ago, --LA--Vengeance said:

Buddy, I've been trying to tell you this, but you can't get a math out of it. You would need specific data to know exactly how many and who purchases. The average Wf player def does not spend 20$ weekly, even those who did pay here and there. Then we have Tennogen, where not the entire profit goes to DE.
On top of it, where there are sheep there is wool, so you never gonna be able to convince every single player to not buy something. However, you can advise in them in talk to reconsider or not do it. A friend told me that there is a discord group for Fashionframe and that not a small number bought the pack to show it off there. Lol.

On the topic of people expecting that they might gonna add at some point just a skin for 20-30$. They won't. You have a pack that has glyph, emote nobody gonna use, title for your profile, palette, and a bit of plat for 30$. Clearly, they won't add the skin for that same amount. Don't be naive.

I know not everyone average players spends 19.99 or 4.99 to 79.99 i just averaged it out because if  i would want to do the best math I would need a lot of data to actually get what I want to calculate from 650,000 id need to send every one of them a questionnaire to get the actual pricing of what they spend weekly and monthly on platinum purchases 

So I tryed theoretical math averaging out the player purchases and 50/50 d them to simulate divergent viewpoints its not in the least perfect but I did try 

[Lucabaduka]

22 hours ago, Cerikus said:

https://mmo-population.com/r/Warframe/stats

What is a Warframe "subscriber" and why is the popularity of r/Warframe being taken into consideration in their player stats? At least SteamDB uses actual players online for data, even if it's limited to steam players.

 

20 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Thats 81,000 ftp and 81,000 prime fashion players 81,000 x 4.99 = 404,190 dollers a week /1,616,760 a month and 81,000 x 39.99 = 3,239,190 a week /12,956,760 a month and 81,000 x 79.99 = 6,479,190 a month 

I seriously doubt that Warframe makes three million a week. I think your mental picture of players' buying habits is a whole lot more than it is. Even when we were spending a lot working good jobs in 2014-2015 my friends and I were only buying plat once every 3-4 months. I'd wager revenue or lack thereof for prime access would be more impactful.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Lucabaduka

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

48 minutes ago, Lucabaduka said:

 

I seriously doubt that Warframe makes three million a week. I think your mental picture of players' buying habits is a whole lot more than it is. Even when we were spending a lot working good jobs in 2014-2015 my friends and I were only buying plat once every 3-4 months. I'd wager revenue or lack thereof for prime access would be more impactful.

Im just doing some theoretical math because I dont have the data I need to make the perfect math on what I'm trying to do i would need 650,000 people's exact data on what they spend on the game so I'm averaging out the average player purchases, ftp purchases and prime/fashion frame purchases

 

[Cerikus]

1 hour ago, Lucabaduka said:

What is a Warframe "subscriber" and why is the popularity of r/Warframe being taken into consideration in their player stats? At least SteamDB uses actual players online for data, even if it's limited to steam players.

Subsciber is their general term for someone who turned the game on at least once.

They are gathering data from everywhere to approximate actual player numbers. Steam is only able to tell you player concurnecy. Nothing else. SteamDB has no real information about total population of games.

Basically thanks to MMOpopulation we know that Warframe has approx, 645k active players.
SteamDB tells us only the peaks of players that were online at one time.

Also compare the plots of those two datasets. You wouldn't know that Warframe is STILL steadily growing. That is something that is not apparent from SteamDB.