Warframes obsession with removing player control

[BleedRainbows]

Easily one of the biggest selling points of this game is the movement. Ask anyone what this game’s key note feature is and they’ll say the freedom of movement with bullet jumping, rolling, and sliding. Its genuinely top tier in the market. So what, on god’s green earth, is with this game’s OBSESSION with taking control away from the player? Theres so many intentional and unintentional instances everywhere across the game where this happens that it genuinely makes this game frustrating to play at times. There needs to be massive changes to the engine or game design to fix these things, not to mention bug safeguards.

I’ll start with the intentional examples. An easy one to target first is stagger and knockdowns. Many vets like myself, with thousands of hours in game, know how important Primed Sure Footed is. Tons of enemies across each faction can knock you down and do so liberally. This is most prevalent in enemy dense areas and certain boss fights (everyone remember the original Profit Taker fight?). Getting chain knocked down is not only a death sentence but its also so god damn BORING. Taking away control like this is just eye rolling because it turns you into a spectator, unable to interact with the game. Luckily, theres a solution right in front of us. Manual roll recovery - which is already in the game. Problem is, the window is so incredibly tight that me, someone with over 3000 hours in the game, cannot do it consistently. My solution is to just streamline this feature and allow us to use our normal roll out of the knockdown animations. This adds a cool learning curve to an established mechanic and also allows us to react to enemy behavior. Not to mention it will free up our builds from auto including knockdown resistance and/or status immunity (don’t get me started on cold procs).

There are some other intentional examples such as archwing, conservation, and hard landings to quickly mention as well. As anyone who uses their archwing will tell you, crashing (which happens constantly do to their speed) automatically stuns you and can chain back to back with how frantic flying can be. This should probably just be removed pending more major archwing changes. Conservation is a great way to gain rep for the open worlds but for some reason every fish and captured wild life forces you into an animation with the creature. This is a less egregious example but maybe adding a setting to skip these would be nice. Lastly here, hard falling. Oh boy. A relic from a past version of the game without bullet jump. I’m actually okay with this mechanic staying, but the speed at which it triggers needs to be upped massively. A simple bullet jump can cause this to trigger and it’s incredibly annoying. This is a side effect of collision issues that will be discussed more further below. Getting snagged on a ledge or other surface can cause you to not move while still gaining downward momentum from falling, forcing you into a hard landing. Kavat’s Grace is a mod i wish i knew about earlier.

Okay, now we get to unintentional examples of control stripping. Bugs. We call it Bugframe for a reason. Im generally pretty forgiving on this front because important ones are usually addressed by the team before too long, but these keep cropping up. An example I’m sure many are aware up after the auto melee update from Update 34 is the operator/drifter endless void blast spam. Now I’m sure this will be fixed soon, but this COMPLETELY disables you from using your operator. This also isn’t the first time, duviri was notorious for these odd issues of the player character fully losing all functionality and control. In addition, its been common place with warfarmes as well. Back in the day, we had issues with ability disabling enemies like the scrambus permanently disabling abilities due to a bug. Hell, just recently i was doing a solo steel path extermination and Violence completely disabled my Ivara from using anything other than my primary because i couldn’t swap weapons or use abilities due to a bug. This isn’t the first time these issues have cropped up and it wont be the last. So, before i make an ass of myself purposing this idea, id like to preface it by saying i am not a game developer. I have a vague understanding of game engines and coding, but I’m by no means educated on the topic. So here it is: I think there needs to be a way to “hard reset” our player character. This probably takes form by way of respawing after death or by using the /unstuck chat command. These can already fix some types of the aforementioned issues, but i think we need code or a script that completely wipes and recreates the player pawn to act as a safe guard for future issues. /unstuck is already a contingency plan for getting stuck in and underneath geometry, so it may be a good avenue to pursue this sort of thing. Speaking of geometry though, that something we need to finally address.

This may be the hardest or most unfeasible thing to change as I both dont fully understand the game engine or how it functions. But consequentially, this may also be the most important to address going forward. Anyone who has played for a dozen or more hours will realize how incredibly easy it is to get snagged or stuck on geometry (the environment) in this game. You practically cannot walk past a corner or piece of debris without getting fully stopped by it. Grendel has a very obvious problem with this in Pulverize, as you’ll notice you will fully stop and lose all momentum when landing at random. I have no idea what the problem here is. Maybe its the player capsule or geometry being shaped weird, maybe its the collision code, maybe its a server synchronization issue, i don’t know. All i know is, collision doesn’t work as it should. We should be able to run and jump around things without getting hard stuck on everything. I wish i knew more about how to address this or could make proper suggestions on what to do, but I genuinely feel like I’m not informed enough to speak on such things.

So yeah, sorry for the incredibly long post and ranty nature of it but as someone who’s supported this game and company for years, i felt i should voice these concerns. i feel like they fly under the radar and aren’t discussed enough. These kind of things make the game feel a little janky and it would really help smooth over the day to day activities we all play. Hopefully this doesn’t come off as too negative or like a vent post as I’m just a grumpy old veteran when it comes to Warframe. All these quality of life changes have me hopeful for the new leadership and i want them to keep pumping out great changes. Game couldn’t be in better hands, honestly.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, BleedRainbows dijo:

Easily one of the biggest selling points of this game is the movement. Ask anyone what this game’s key note feature is and they’ll say the freedom of movement with bullet jumping, rolling, and sliding. Its genuinely top tier in the market. So what, on god’s green earth, is with this game’s OBSESSION with taking control away from the player? Theres so many intentional and unintentional instances everywhere across the game where this happens that it genuinely makes this game frustrating to play at times. There needs to be massive changes to the engine or game design to fix these things, not to mention bug safeguards.

I’ll start with the intentional examples. An easy one to target first is stagger and knockdowns. Many vets like myself, with thousands of hours in game, know how important Primed Sure Footed is. Tons of enemies across each faction can knock you down and do so liberally. This is most prevalent in enemy dense areas and certain boss fights (everyone remember the original Profit Taker fight?). Getting chain knocked down is not only a death sentence but its also so god damn BORING. Taking away control like this is just eye rolling because it turns you into a spectator, unable to interact with the game. Luckily, theres a solution right in front of us. Manual roll recovery - which is already in the game. Problem is, the window is so incredibly tight that me, someone with over 3000 hours in the game, cannot do it consistently. My solution is to just streamline this feature and allow us to use our normal roll out of the knockdown animations. This adds a cool learning curve to an established mechanic and also allows us to react to enemy behavior. Not to mention it will free up our builds from auto including knockdown resistance and/or status immunity (don’t get me started on cold procs).

There are some other intentional examples such as archwing, conservation, and hard landings to quickly mention as well. As anyone who uses their archwing will tell you, crashing (which happens constantly do to their speed) automatically stuns you and can chain back to back with how frantic flying can be. This should probably just be removed pending more major archwing changes. Conservation is a great way to gain rep for the open worlds but for some reason every fish and captured wild life forces you into an animation with the creature. This is a less egregious example but maybe adding a setting to skip these would be nice. Lastly here, hard falling. Oh boy. A relic from a past version of the game without bullet jump. I’m actually okay with this mechanic staying, but the speed at which it triggers needs to be upped massively. A simple bullet jump can cause this to trigger and it’s incredibly annoying. This is a side effect of collision issues that will be discussed more further below. Getting snagged on a ledge or other surface can cause you to not move while still gaining downward momentum from falling, forcing you into a hard landing. Kavat’s Grace is a mod i wish i knew about earlier.

Okay, now we get to unintentional examples of control stripping. Bugs. We call it Bugframe for a reason. Im generally pretty forgiving on this front because important ones are usually addressed by the team before too long, but these keep cropping up. An example I’m sure many are aware up after the auto melee update from Update 34 is the operator/drifter endless void blast spam. Now I’m sure this will be fixed soon, but this COMPLETELY disables you from using your operator. This also isn’t the first time, duviri was notorious for these odd issues of the player character fully losing all functionality and control. In addition, its been common place with warfarmes as well. Back in the day, we had issues with ability disabling enemies like the scrambus permanently disabling abilities due to a bug. Hell, just recently i was doing a solo steel path extermination and Violence completely disabled my Ivara from using anything other than my primary because i couldn’t swap weapons or use abilities due to a bug. This isn’t the first time these issues have cropped up and it wont be the last. So, before i make an ass of myself purposing this idea, id like to preface it by saying i am not a game developer. I have a vague understanding of game engines and coding, but I’m by no means educated on the topic. So here it is: I think there needs to be a way to “hard reset” our player character. This probably takes form by way of respawing after death or by using the /unstuck chat command. These can already fix some types of the aforementioned issues, but i think we need code or a script that completely wipes and recreates the player pawn to act as a safe guard for future issues. /unstuck is already a contingency plan for getting stuck in and underneath geometry, so it may be a good avenue to pursue this sort of thing. Speaking of geometry though, that something we need to finally address.

This may be the hardest or most unfeasible thing to change as I both dont fully understand the game engine or how it functions. But consequentially, this may also be the most important to address going forward. Anyone who has played for a dozen or more hours will realize how incredibly easy it is to get snagged or stuck on geometry (the environment) in this game. You practically cannot walk past a corner or piece of debris without getting fully stopped by it. Grendel has a very obvious problem with this in Pulverize, as you’ll notice you will fully stop and lose all momentum when landing at random. I have no idea what the problem here is. Maybe its the player capsule or geometry being shaped weird, maybe its the collision code, maybe its a server synchronization issue, i don’t know. All i know is, collision doesn’t work as it should. We should be able to run and jump around things without getting hard stuck on everything. I wish i knew more about how to address this or could make proper suggestions on what to do, but I genuinely feel like I’m not informed enough to speak on such things.

So yeah, sorry for the incredibly long post and ranty nature of it but as someone who’s supported this game and company for years, i felt i should voice these concerns. i feel like they fly under the radar and aren’t discussed enough. These kind of things make the game feel a little janky and it would really help smooth over the day to day activities we all play. Hopefully this doesn’t come off as too negative or like a vent post as I’m just a grumpy old veteran when it comes to Warframe. All these quality of life changes have me hopeful for the new leadership and i want them to keep pumping out great changes. Game couldn’t be in better hands, honestly.

You know what? I think it's funny.
Every time someone makes a flamewall or something similar, complaining about what they don't like and crying about meaningless things, they are usually a person with at most 5 messages in the forum and then they say that they have been contributing to the game for many years, but the they only coming to the forum to discuss something when they are angry and want shoot sh*t.

Edited October 23, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Given how powerful a warframe is, taking all those stuff away leaving a basic husk doesn't take away the player's skill level. As a Legendary Rank 3 player, I have no issue doing Grendel missions using Randomizer. Being a "vet" you have oversome worse situations, years of exerpience have taught you point and click is the best way to play the game. Even if you're 200m away.

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

You know what? I think it's funny.
Every time someone makes a flamewall or something similar, complaining about what they don't like and crying about meaningless things, they are usually a person with at most 5 messages in the forum and then they say that they have been contributing to the game for many years, but the they only coming to the forum to discuss something when they are angry and want shoot sh*t.

I just dont' understand these pretend "vets" at all. It was far worse in the old days compare to now. I think these "vets" want new players to suffer as much as they did.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 5 minutos, (PSN)jaggerwanderer dijo:

I just dont' understand these pretend "vets" at all. It was far worse in the old days compare to now. I think these "vets" want new players to suffer as much as they did.

I am a veteran sir and I doubt that anyone who has been playing this for 10 years wants to make the game more difficult for newcomers. In the first place it is highly doubtful that these ''Angry kid posts'' are made by veterans. What I want to make clear is that these people have never been part of the community and only come to the forum to cry. With the amount of problems, bugs and so on that are published in the forum, no one of these ppl comments or addresses those problems, they simply come to complain after supposedly playing the game for many years and normally their complaints are simple cries, saying what they don't like something, or what they wanted something.

[BleedRainbows]

1 hour ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I am a veteran sir and I doubt that anyone who has been playing this for 10 years wants to make the game more difficult for newcomers. In the first place it is highly doubtful that these ''Angry kid posts'' are made by veterans. What I want to make clear is that these people have never been part of the community and only come to the forum to cry. With the amount of problems, bugs and so on that are published in the forum, no one of these ppl comments or addresses those problems, they simply come to complain after supposedly playing the game for many years and normally their complaints are simple cries, saying what they don't like something, or what they wanted something.

What a disingenuous set of replies. If you actually read the text wall you'd see all this comes out of a place of love for the game. I conveyed both problems and potential solutions, while being completely fair to the devs. This elitist attitude towards me because im not on the forums all day so my opinion doesnt matter is so cringe. How you can sit on here all day and not even read the stuff you reply to is so wild. You literally just read a clickbait title and assumed the rest. Also, you dont get to decide whos part of the community and who isnt. My views are no more or less valid than anyone elses. Grow up.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

9 minutes ago, BleedRainbows said:

What a disingenuous set of replies. If you actually read the text wall you'd see all this comes out of a place of love for the game. I conveyed both problems and potential solutions, while being completely fair to the devs. This elitist attitude towards me because im not on the forums all day so my opinion doesnt matter is so cringe. How you can sit on here all day and not even read the stuff you reply to is so wild. You literally just read a clickbait title and assumed the rest. Also, you dont get to decide whos part of the community and who isnt. My views are no more or less valid than anyone elses. Grow up.

You don't understand. There's been improvements over the past 10 years. Sowly, painfully. Warframe is in a better place than it was years ago. At this rate of improvements, 5 years down the line warframe will becaome a slot machine. No engagement. Just press a button and loot comes out.

[BleedRainbows]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

You don't understand. There's been improvements over the past 10 years. Sowly, painfully. Warframe is in a better place than it was years ago. At this rate of improvements, 5 years down the line warframe will becaome a slot machine. No engagement. Just press a button and loot comes out.

I agree that generally some level of engagement has been lost and maybe the power scale needs to be readjusted to deal with that, but thats not really relevant to this discussion. My propositions were for the health of the game's movement and flow. The game has come a long way and its not my intention to drag its past through the mud, as I hope anyone can see. The second half of the post was demonstrating the need for future proofing against problems down the line. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

The game has done nothing but get easier as time has gone on.

And the complaint is 'Bugs and stuns'?

Just... The amount of text to make a mountain out of a molehill is genuinely surprising.

Especially when the issue of hard landings has had the answer in the game since inception in the form of basic rolling or sliding. Nowadays, when you're Bullet Jumping, the only two things you're doing is getting distance or getting height. If you're getting height, then slide or roll out, or even just Aim Glide because that's a thing in this game that stops you from hard landings too. If you're getting distance then... slide or roll out because those both extend your movement without having to go back to sprinting, or just Aim Glide because that extends your air time without affecting your speed, and even combos with the slide for faster movement in the air.

I can understand the knock-down recovery timing is tricky, but hard landing avoidance (which is in there to ensure that players learn how to actively maintain movement and momentum by having an intentional delay for not doing so) is... not tricky at all.

Seems to me... no, I can't say what I'm thinking as it'll get reported as Forum bullying, regardless of it being true.

Build a bridge and get over it.

[BleedRainbows]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The game has done nothing but get easier as time has gone on.

And the complaint is 'Bugs and stuns'?

Just... The amount of text to make a mountain out of a molehill is genuinely surprising.

Especially when the issue of hard landings has had the answer in the game since inception in the form of basic rolling or sliding. Nowadays, when you're Bullet Jumping, the only two things you're doing is getting distance or getting height. If you're getting height, then slide or roll out, or even just Aim Glide because that's a thing in this game that stops you from hard landings too. If you're getting distance then... slide or roll out because those both extend your movement without having to go back to sprinting, or just Aim Glide because that extends your air time without affecting your speed, and even combos with the slide for faster movement in the air.

I can understand the knock-down recovery timing is tricky, but hard landing avoidance (which is in there to ensure that players learn how to actively maintain movement and momentum by having an intentional delay for not doing so) is... not tricky at all.

Seems to me... no, I can't say what I'm thinking as it'll get reported as Forum bullying, regardless of it being true.

Build a bridge and get over it.

This isn't a complaint about difficulty, its a critique about flow and interactivity. Also as I alluded to, this isn't the biggest issue to me, its just not a discussion I've ever seen happen. Most of these issues aren't a problem in isolation, its death by a thousand cuts. Movement works until it doesn't, which is what I want to address. People in this forum seem to have an obsession with either straw manning or being purposefully dense. If you put as much effort into being condescending as you did actually thinking about the things I've said maybe you could've added something meaningful to the discussion. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

My point being is DE has given enemy tons of counter measures against warframe players. All of which by the way are avoidable. Enemy counter measures need high reaction time to be avoided though which becomes an issue in it itself. Disable warframe movements is one of those counter measures.

[Voltage]

You bring up many good points here. With that said, the cause of this fixation is how much Warframe's gameplay focuses on mass-killing trash mobs. In order for enemies to be a relevant threat, they need to restrict or disable the player. First it was the Corpus Nullifier, then the Scrambus/Comba, then the CC-spam enemies found on Orb Vallis, all the way up to the addition of Thrax (that go invincible with Magnetic beams dealing heavy damage).

Even if you addressed these concerned (which is unlikely, but let's just pretend), you'd not really enrich the experience, but just make it even more mindless. Most of Warframe's effort and reward happens through the arsenal with your gear. You're taught very early on to build for the mission and build around obstacles. Enemy CC/movement restriction is just one of many hurdles.

On the front of bugs, I absolutely agree, but Warframe's development cycle has always been to leave things in a state of "good enough". That's why these features fall apart randomly after some updates that feel seemingly unrelated (like in this case with auto-melee and Void Blast, something that was supposed to have been removed).

51 minutes ago, BleedRainbows said:

Most of these issues aren't a problem in isolation, its death by a thousand cuts.

This is sadly how the entire game is treated. Compounding issues, especially over years at a time, leave some players (as yourself, as well as me with certain topics) to become very frustrated over a seemingly small change or discussion (like the Heirloom Collection, the recent thread regarding Helminth usage on Merulina with Yareli, or the multiplicative booster bug that plagues endurance Fissures right now).

Edited October 23, 2023 by Voltage

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I am a veteran sir and I doubt that anyone who has been playing this for 10 years wants to make the game more difficult for newcomers. In the first place it is highly doubtful that these ''Angry kid posts'' are made by veterans. What I want to make clear is that these people have never been part of the community and only come to the forum to cry. With the amount of problems, bugs and so on that are published in the forum, no one of these ppl comments or addresses those problems, they simply come to complain after supposedly playing the game for many years and normally their complaints are simple cries, saying what they don't like something, or what they wanted something.

The entire point of the Feedback subforum is to share negative feedback. That's just how it is. You don't need to be extremely active or old to produce good discussion or bring up good points. If we treated all complaints voiced like this as ignorable cries, we'd probably still be playing with Stamina or you'd be getting Endo with your Regal Aya purchases instead of Platinum. Everyone has bias in their feedback, and it's important to extract the core discussion and the validity of points offered and separate that from the frustration that feedback is often written in.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

4 hours ago, BleedRainbows said:

What a disingenuous set of replies. If you actually read the text wall you'd see all this comes out of a place of love for the game. I conveyed both problems and potential solutions, while being completely fair to the devs. This elitist attitude towards me because im not on the forums all day so my opinion doesnt matter is so cringe. How you can sit on here all day and not even read the stuff you reply to is so wild. You literally just read a clickbait title and assumed the rest. Also, you dont get to decide whos part of the community and who isnt. My views are no more or less valid than anyone elses. Grow up.

Welcome to the Forums and unfortunately Trolls are real and will occasionally chime in with their sweet anecdotes to brighten your day.  You have every right to express your concerns and sometimes it is good to be reminded of the clunky mechanics that have been around for so long, we tend to forget they even exist because they get overshadowed by new ones that are more current.  For me it's maybe your choice of words is the issue, as I don't feel DE is removing player control, but more they didn't think it through when designed and implemented.  The fishing and conservation animation is not game breaking but is terribly inconvenient and a nuisance when you are forced to endure an animal capture animation when you are not even involved. Deimos is probably the worst for such things and is very disruptive to gameplay to be lurched from many meters away into some capture animation shenanigans.  The Archwing back-flipping roll animation is so bad, I have put Prime Sure Footed on Titania otherwise it is a nightmare to navigate in ship tilesets while in Razorwing.  Throw a Volt or Wisp into the squad and it becomes intolerable! Lol  Even on PoE or any open world ,when actually in Archwing if you barely touch the ground or tree branch you are forced to endure the silly air gymnastics animation.  Don't let the cranky Vet's stop you from voicing your opinions or concerns otherwise nothing would get fixed because DE tends to forget, or simply ignore, the ever growing number of bugs and Kuaka Krap game mechanics unless reminded repeatedly.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[BleedRainbows]

3 hours ago, Voltage said:

You bring up many good points here. With that said, the cause of this fixation is how much Warframe's gameplay focuses on mass-killing trash mobs. In order for enemies to be a relevant threat, they need to restrict or disable the player. First it was the Corpus Nullifier, then the Scrambus/Comba, then the CC-spam enemies found on Orb Vallis, all the way up to the addition of Thrax (that go invincible with Magnetic beams dealing heavy damage).

Even if you addressed these concerned (which is unlikely, but let's just pretend), you'd not really enrich the experience, but just make it even more mindless. Most of Warframe's effort and reward happens through the arsenal with your gear. You're taught very early on to build for the mission and build around obstacles. Enemy CC/movement restriction is just one of many hurdles.

On the front of bugs, I absolutely agree, but Warframe's development cycle has always been to leave things in a state of "good enough". That's why these features fall apart randomly after some updates that feel seemingly unrelated (like in this case with auto-melee and Void Blast, something that was supposed to have been removed).

This is sadly how the entire game is treated. Compounding issues, especially over years at a time, leave some players (as yourself, as well as me with certain topics) to become very frustrated over a seemingly small change or discussion (like the Heirloom Collection, the recent thread regarding Helminth usage on Merulina with Yareli, or the multiplicative booster bug that plagues endurance Fissures right now).

Oh hey a reasonable reply, I was beginning to lose hope lol.

But yeah I actually agree, enemies do need to way of disabling or combatting us in ways other than more damage or hit points. But Id actually argue the current systems i critiqued result in more mindless gameplay than my suggested solutions though. 

Knockdowns currently are almost completely bypassed by primed sure footed, meaning most players don’t engage with the mechanic at all. Im generally in favor of keeping the mod but allowing us to roll out of knockdowns means you can forego a mod and deal with an enemy interaction manually - thus creating a decision to be made. With the incredibly narrow and therefore unreliable current knockdown recover, its not even worth the attempt and is best avoided all together via mods.

Hard landings are the opposite where it requires interaction too often. I think the velocity required to initiate a hard landing should be slightly higher than what you get with a default bullet jump hight. Imagine if in any other game a normal jump hurt you upon landing. Would feel weird right? Why can i jump this high but my character cant safely land from that hight? The roll/glide to avoid hard landing is a cool learning curve and should be preserved, id just like it to feel more natural given our abilities.

[BleedRainbows]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Welcome to the Forums and unfortunately Trolls are real and will occasionally chime in with their sweet anecdotes to brighten your day.  You have every right to express your concerns and sometimes it is good to be reminded of the clunky mechanics that have been around for so long, we tend to forget they even exist because they get overshadowed by new ones that are more current.  For me it's maybe your choice of words is the issue, as I don't feel DE is removing player control, but more they didn't think it through when designed and implemented.  The fishing and conservation animation is not game breaking but is terribly inconvenient and a nuisance when you are forced to endure an animal capture animation when you are not even involved. Deimos is probably the worst for such things and is very disruptive to gameplay to be lurched from many meters away into some capture animation shenanigans.  The Archwing back-flipping roll animation is so bad, I have put Prime Sure Footed on Titania otherwise it is a nightmare to navigate in ship tilesets while in Razorwing.  Throw a Volt or Wisp into the squad and it becomes intolerable! Lol  Even on PoE or any open world ,when actually in Archwing if you barely touch the ground or tree branch you are forced to endure the silly air gymnastics animation.  Don't let the cranky Vet's stop you from voicing your opinions or concerns otherwise nothing would get fixed because DE tends to forget, or simply ignore, the ever growing number of bugs and Kuaka Krap game mechanics unless reminded repeatedly.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

I appreciate the civil reply.

My wording was actually pretty precise though, the game takes away control not DE. Pretty much all of these design decisions were made at points in the games life cycle where they made sense and just havent been adjusted to where the game has evolved. Its a beast that has taken a life of its own and DE just needs to rein it in to better reflect the new direction of the game. Its admittedly hard to foresee a lot of these smaller issues that add up when you have to bounce between so many things as a studio. 

[Tiltskillet]

13 hours ago, BleedRainbows said:

Luckily, theres a solution right in front of us. Manual roll recovery - which is already in the game. Problem is, the window is so incredibly tight that me, someone with over 3000 hours in the game, cannot do it consistently. My solution is to just streamline this feature and allow us to use our normal roll out of the knockdown animations. This adds a cool learning curve to an established mechanic and also allows us to react to enemy behavior.

Rolling is already the pre-emptive cheat code for so much enemy CC.  Between nerfs to enemy hook attacks and DE making it easier and easier to build for PSF-effects, I don't think this stuff needs to be made more than incrementally easier on a reactive level. 

To my mind, the focus should be on the knockdown recovery mechanic.  I agree it's a huge disappointment, but that means there's plenty of room for improvement.  More obvious prompt, bigger window, and a better payoff for getting the timing right than a nifty  but still pretty long animation.

Most of your other proposals I'm  in favor of.  (Though maybe not with your intensity. :P )

I guess with the exception of hard landings, which--aside from map specific issues that are better addressed through fixes to geometry--I don't feel need made any easier to avoid mechanically.  Maybe more build options like making Kavat's Grace should be easier to get, or a focus node equivalent or something.  But the mechanic itself seems fine. It's a case where Warframe actually involves a bit of learned skill. 

I should know.  I still bungle it regularly, but every year a little less.