Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[Cerikus]

While I am on the side "allow to skip, don't do pay to skip", I do have to say a FACTUAL TRUTH to balance the perspective.

I have several actual friends that would instantly jump into this game to play with me, but they know that this game wants you to put in 200 hours to catch up.
And they don't have that. What they have is money. They would have zero issue to pay to play with me.

So it doesn't have to be only about pay2skip, but also about allowing adults with limited time to play together.

It's true that you can already skip Railjack and Necramech, so it wouldn't really be any different.

Just another perspective.

 

[ArdeKakka]

add co-op story so i can taxi my mr 1 friend to new war

perhaps only 2 man squads or other limiters

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So DE is worried about the latest content drops being too hard to get to for new players because they have to do all the old content first. Kinda like how just for example it takes awhile to get to the new war. 

Well in the latest dev stream theyre considering adding pay-to-catch-up. 

Holy mother of god please no.

 

Jesus christ. This is the worst idea ive ever seen. I havent always agreed with DE and that might sound like hyperbole but it is literally the cringiest idea ive ever seen. 

The chat immediately was like please no. 

I really hope this is one of those things where they have an idea and the community is like please no and they *listen*.

 

A better solution would be to make more quests co-op enabled. 

Bro they've already ruined the moment of doing the second dream if you've done Duviri, now it'll literally be *spends $20* "what's this?!"

Also I literally was watching as a streamer I follow (imstarmi) started getting into Warframe and got to New War within a week or two. The only hard content that takes a while to unlock are Arbitrations/Steel path, and I'm fine if de adds a pay to skip for those, but please not for the story.

[Zimzala]

11 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

If you ignore emotional outburst and non-arguments, I think the only good counter argument (which I share) is that it would cost plat, which would change the onboarding taste of this game. Currently it is "Warframe is completely free, you can only pay to skip grind". With this change it would be "Newest content is locked behind paywall or a 200 hours grind". And that's not a good thing to have.

It seems to work just fine for many other GaaS games where one can purchase a high/max level character.

One can still enjoy the content.

As it is now, the newest content is locked behind a grind, how is giving another option through Plat a bad thing, beyond emotional complaints?

You say it is not a good thing, how, exactly, is it not a good thing?

Sure, it changes things by adding an option, more options are generally considered a positive.

I get that you and others don't like it, but that's just an opinion. 

2 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I think the (valid) concern is that it makes Warframe a worse game. Without the context of past story content, without having to engage with the new-player progression, the game is worse and people who skip will bounce off.

Being upset that the developers are making the game worse is fair. We all want the game to succeed so the game we like continues. Don't focus on the people using bad arguments, there are some real concerns that need to be considered when trying to make a good skip.

Any emotional outlook is 'fair', even if it is not accepted by others, etc., it's just emotions.

I get that your opinion is that being able to get current with the story progression through Plat would make teh game worse.

But how, exactly, does it make teh game worse? Many, many people who play games of this nature skip story content as much as they can already, they are only interested in killing pixels. The game would remain for those that want to play it.

As for "real concerns" on how to do it right? Those are DEs to solve, to be blunt. 

I would love to see a valid argument, but all we have here is FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

[ABlindGuyPlays]

20 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I have yet to see an argument here as to how doing this negatively impacts any current players, beyond making some players with low emotional maturity angry because some other person got a thing in a way they don't like.

You have been willfully ignoring arguments then. 

THis  basically incentivizes DE to add more pain points and frustration to dangle 'Heey you can skip this' to any and all future content.

I accept it when it's gear. I don't like it but 'it's there and has always been there'

This is a step further. To which I say 'No.'

[S2Weak]

This is pretty much admitting "we are not going to bring old contents to modern standard. just forget all the isolated content islands".

 

To be fair, I wouldn't mind if most of the star chart get deleted. Like 80% of the game is dated or poorly designed.

If I could get everything in duviri, I would only play duviri. Can't say the same for archwing or many places on star chart.

[Nekomian]

Tbh there really is no winning in this situation.

You add some skip functionality? Veteran players complain the new players aren't caught up / enjoying the story / are gonna leech, and the new player needs a reason to care about the dozens of characters they have no background or lore on, and cope with the confusing mechanics overload of all the game systems at once so they don't check out.

No skip functionality is added? New player wants to join and play the new content, and is now hit with a huge wall and they get bored and annoyed and leave the game, because they saw something cool they wanted to play, and veteran players inviting friends can't have them join on many quests and content that the new player has to go through themselves.

I can see why they'd want to go the route of at the very least adding an option for players that would want to skip content and agree to it, but I think it should be free; there's plenty of other ways to get new players on your game without immediately hitting them with a paywall incentive for the latest content, and retaining those new players means more potential cosmetic & plat purchases if they like what they see. Hell, maybe even a "trial run" for new players would suffice if that's feasible, if they want to see what the new stuff is like very briefly and have something to look forward to.

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

You have been willfully ignoring arguments then. 

THis  basically incentivizes DE to add more pain points and frustration to dangle 'Heey you can skip this' to any and all future content.

I accept it when it's gear. I don't like it but 'it's there and has always been there'

This is a step further. To which I say 'No.'

That is conspiracy level thinking, the developers are not out to get you.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

5 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I agree, but I'm not going to tell someone else how to play the game. If they just want to play some missions with friends, then I don't really care if they skipped a bunch of quests or not.

And quests are repeatable, so they can just replay them without weeks of grind.

i have played a lot of MMOs and this usely ends up killing the game, all the new players have 0 care for the story of the game, get burned out in like a 3rd of the time and the story becomes worse because  the games get forced to add more content at lesser quality to keep up with the new "End-game" crowd.

some games will even sell "end game" equipment that required weeks to make, just to allow "New players" the chance to use the end game gear too.

they ofcourse do this a month or 2 after they add the new end game gear, completely ruining everyone who decided to grind the gear.

 

this imo is a VERY bad system especially for a game like warframe.

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

i have played a lot of MMOs and this usely ends up killing the game,

Show me one MMO where adding the ability for a new player to pay to get to the endgame killed it, with real evidence, not opinion or hearsay.

I'll wait.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Just now, Zimzala said:

That is conspiracy level thinking, the developers are not out to get you.

 No, they are not. 
They wanted to monotize as far as possible as much, and in this case I am rather strongly against not just their use of this as more monotization for the above stated reasons, but also for Eveyrone that seems to be for this using player bashing as justification.

You are not better than Me. I am not better than You.

Discuss. Not Demean. OK?

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

Just now, Zimzala said:

Show me one MMO where adding the ability for a new player to pay to get to the endgame killed it, with real evidence, not opinion or hearsay.

I'll wait.

Closers.

[SleepySnorlax02]

Pay plat to skip story quests is a good idea. DE needs to find a good balance with the price and the content of the skip pack , like quest rewards, maybe give a 'fully modded' umbra and weapon(nataruk, skiajati) so that new players have some equipment they can play the new content with. I think getting new players into the game should be the most important thing to do for DE, and this is a good step towards that direction.  If someone wants to skip old content and stories(no matter how good it is) and play the new thing they saw in an ad, they should be able to do it. 

[Kaiga]

Games are meant to be PLAYED with FRAMES not with CREDIT CARDS

#*!% geshin impact! That's on you reb and megan!

Edited October 27, 2023 by Kaiga

[DrBorris]

8 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I get that your opinion is that being able to get current with the story progression through Plat would make teh game worse.

But how, exactly, does it make teh game worse? Many, many people who play games of this nature skip story content as much as they can already, they are only interested in killing pixels. The game would remain for those that want to play it.

As for "real concerns" on how to do it right? Those are DEs to solve, to be blunt. 

I didn't say I think it makes the game worse, I'm looking at the potential cons. And I do think it is a very real potential.

 

Also you don't need to project your "nothing matters these forums are a joke" thing onto everyone. We like talking about things. I know nothing matters but I enjoy engaging with conversation as if they do.

[Zimzala]

Just now, ABlindGuyPlays said:

You are not better than Me. I am not better than You.

Discuss. Not Demean. OK?

I have demeaned no one, I clearly stated the Idea that DE will add more things to the game just to charge players to 'avoid pain' is conspiracy level thinking.

IMO, you saying this incentivizes DE to make such things is just that, conspiracy level thinking.

You are jumping to an emotional based conclusion because you don't like when companies charge for their products in this way, so you see this thorough that lens.

That's all just your opinion, it is not an argument to show doing this harms other players.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but that is not evidence of this harming players, it just shows you don't like it.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

Closers.

 

meant to edit my post, opps, but here:
https://www.facebook.com/ClosersGame/photos/a.346734945751788/1490439821381289/?type=3

Spoiler

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika

[Skolem]

6 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

That is conspiracy level thinking, the developers are not out to get you.

It's far from conspiracy level thinking. It's the primary monetization scheme of this very game and most GaaS.

Warframe the game was not found in the void and DE is just trying their darnedest to to help us with slots and foundry times. Those numbers are their decisions. So much of the game is engineered "pay to be slightly less annoyning" why would just one more pay to skip be "Conspiracy level"?

[Zimzala]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

Closers.

Ok, so a relatively unknown little game trying to survive did this and it did not go well.

Are you actually going to argue equivalence here?

[PublikDomain]

It reminds me of the Josh Strife Hayes thing from a while back. If "it gets better after 10 hours" then it doesn't sound like those first 10 hours are any good. Maybe they should just be made good? If they were good then no one would want to skip them. And why do new players need to skip forward in the first place? To play newer content that they won't understand, where they'll be unable to contribute while being carried by friends and teammates who far outpace them, rewarding them with content and mechanics they don't have a use for, robbing them of the experiences they'll now never get to have? And if this isn't a "greed" thing... why was their first thought to monetize it?

Maybe if the game wasn't so grindy people wouldn't have so many progression problems with the early content? There have been a lot of efforts to streamline the early game progress - maybe keep doing that? Shuffle the paths around so it's faster to move forward through the Relays, reduce the remaining arbitrary timegates, convert old events into story quests so progress around the Starchart doesn't lack all context, and stop letting new players wander into big timesinks like PoE and Fortuna within their first hour of play.

Maybe if veterans could play this early content without dying of boredom they wouldn't mind helping their friends progress? Like for example changing Steel Path so it's a personal modifier and not a separate starchart. Then I could play SP while helping my friends through non-SP content without fear of robbing them of their fun or of being so mind-numbingly bored playing tissue-paper content. Or adding something like Wayfinder's Helper Queue, which lets stronger players pair up with weaker players to help them out? We had something similar in Scarlet Spear's squad support mechanic where players in Relays could send help to struggling squads. That was great! Add Player Alerts so players can ask for help. Wow so organic. Or idk balance the game already so people can actually play together in the same spaces without fighting over the limited stuff to do?

There are a lot of solutions to the NPE sucking. "Give us money to skip it" ain't it.

And I find it ever so humorous that DE pitched this in a devstream and had to react to live feedback telling them off. Woulda been nice to have that kind of transparency with the Heirloom packs.

Edited October 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

14 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Ok, so a relatively unknown little game trying to survive did this and it did not go well.

Are you actually going to argue equivalence here?

it wasnt unknown, it was actually a very popular game.

 

also, people mainly played the game through the official launcher like most games, but the steam numbers do not lie about how hard the "Skip to play endgame" killed the game.

they were constantly allowing people to make new characters that would start in end game and they would get the 2nd tier end game gear , usely at a very high enhancement level. (+13-+15)

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika
added more info

[Zimzala]

Just now, Skolem said:

It's far from conspiracy level thinking. It's the primary monetization scheme of this very game and most GaaS.

Warframe the game was not found in the void and DE is just trying their darnedest to to help us with slots and foundry times. Those numbers are their decisions. So much of the game is engineered "pay to be slightly less annoyning" why would just one more pay to skip be "Conspiracy level"?

I forgot there are so many gamers on this forum with this delusion.

Good Luck and Happy Gaming everyone, may your aim be true and your FUD evaporate.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Ultimately you have players that care about the story, and players that don't care at all. 

And there's players that have literally walked away from the game due content (Railjack, New War) who would gladly return to the game if a feature like this was implemented.

Not only that but you instantly have a way to open the game up to players who want to play the game with friends without having to do the required 200+ hours to get to the point where they can being to consider that.

So I'm all for it. If people want to skip a lore dump and just begin farming for the loot, then by all means. This dosent mean they can't return to the quests and complete them later when they want to.

It also doesn't effect the players who also want to experience the quests/lore for themselves.

I'm all for it.

[DrBorris]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

It reminds me of the Josh Strife Hayes thing from a while back. If "it gets better after 10 hours" then it doesn't sound like those first 10 hours are any good. Maybe they should just be made good?

That isn't the purpose of a skip, or at the very least it isn't DE's purpose. DE have been and still are working to make that experience better, but they are also aware of the reality of any content being a wall players will bounce off of. Even if the experience up to Whispers is perfect, some people will see "you have to play 100 hours" and leave without any other questions.

That is the point of the skip. Bringing in other points like "just make the experience better" are missing the point.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 9 minutos, Zimzala dijo:

Ok, so a relatively unknown little game trying to survive did this and it did not go well.

Are you actually going to argue equivalence here?

No, it was a pretty popular game.
I can give several examples of games that have adopted this trend and are almost dead.
Blade and soul is the one I experienced the most. 

As I already mentioned, in the short term the game explodes in players but in the long term it ends up dying. It is a tactic that companies use when their game loses a lot of relevance and can make a lot of money in its last moments.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
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