Revenant - is he good? Well yes, but actualy no. - Little buff idea.

[rozdupcajka]

Revenant is the best tank in the game. It is true. Is he amazing in solo play? Yes. You can do entire Warframe content solo with ease. Is he good in team play? No, absolute garbage. Is he the only immortal Warframe? No. He is at the similar level as Nidus, Nezha, Rhino, Wukong, Baruuk, Frost, Citrine but with less effort.

So whats the problem?

He has ONLY 2 tactics:
1. Ability based clearing with immortality using Mesmer Skin -> Enthrall -> Reave (kills 99% of the content and keep Revenant immortal forever, but at the end you still need weapon to kill Eximus/Boss).
2. Weapon based clearing with Mesmer Skin -> S tier weapon (my favourite - Feralx).

That is the problem. During a game with a team his first tactic is completely useless because clearing speed at higher level is so fast that Thrall is dying even before it can become a Thrall. The skill cast duration and "enthralling" is so long that even if you want a Thrall you cant get one which also means you won't ever see your pillar (and a Pillar is useless anyway, because enemies are standing still shooting at Revenant or they are spreading to much and just avoid it). You can't profit from Thrall Pact, pillars and Reave because there are no active Thralls at all. Also, Revenant ultimate is scaling so bad that it is almost always subsumed. AND THIS IS NOT IDEA ABOUT MAKING THRALLS KILLABLE JUST BY REVENANT OR IMMORTAL! No. It is better.

How to make Revenant viable in team play?

1. Remove damage from pillar.
2. Decrease ability cast time.
3. Decrease "enthralling" time.
4. Make the pillar pull enemies slowly towards it in 5m range (increased by Ability Range, the closer to the center the faster the pull force should be).
5. Allow enemies to shoot normaly, only the movement is restricted.
6. Done.

How will it work? You can use Enthrall on a single enemy. Even if it gets killed in instant the pillar will appear and pulls enemies. When they get close (5 meters as it is now) they became enthralled but keept not in the center of the pillar but around it. Because of high number of enemies in every mission, even with S-tier AoE weapons team mates can't kill them all in instant which gives the minions a chance to be enthralled and allow to use Reave on them with a rewarding profit. Also, with couple of Thralls active Thrall Pact will become a viable option.

Besides of that, team will get a little crowd control simillar to Nidus, but with a lot less range and without possibility to spam with reduced ability duration or giving safety for a team.

Of course, it gives opportunity for coordinated teams to allow Revenant to spam pillars in the entire map with proper tactic (make 1 thrall -> kill -> kill every enemy close to pillar -> repeat) but it will not make them safer because enemies will still shoot at them and this is hard to coordinate because if there are 7 Thralls active Revenant cant create new one, while active pillars will rise new Thrall every second.

Revenant can abuse this in solo but it will make solo so much mire fun. Such little change to make Revenant the most fun Warframe in the game.

What do you think?

Edited November 9, 2023 by rozdupcajka

[jibbahjabbah]

Quote

He is at the similar level as Nidus, Nezha, Rhino, Wukong, Baruuk, Frost, Citrine but with less effort.

Being apart of a society that seemingly only cares about convenience, playing the "less effort" bit off as a thing that doesn't really matter seems a bit naive. In fact, I'd argue that it's the less effort part specifically that makes Revenant the fan favorite it seems to be.

Also, I think your team play standards are too high and playstyle too specific to really appreciate what Revenant can do. Try pub matches. Revenant is like one of the best all around team players. Keeping up mesmer skin up keeps the less apt players on their feet and doing things. When everyone inevitable forgets about the actual mission because they're more interested in RPing as murder-hobos, entrall is one of the best CC's around. The only real problem I run into with entrall is it doing too good of a job. Sometimes I'll find myself wanting to CC a different area after the objective moves but can't because my horde is too busy distracting enemies on the otherside of the map. Being able to cancel it so that you could recast it would be nice, but otherwise I find it's functionality pretty useful.

Reave I think I've only productively used to race other frames to the end of the mission while relic farming and the dance, well, I've used it enough to know it looks cool. You could do whatever to those and I wouldn't mind, but I'd prefer the current functionality of entrall to remain as it is.

[rozdupcajka]

I am playing only public matches because I do not have time to organize within the clan or with my friends. I need quick matchups and Revenant is my main Warframe.

That's how I know that you are avoiding the subject and run into subjective "feelings" area, because in other way you would be forced to admit that in reality Revenant is not OP as the almost everyone are trying to prove.

He is amazing in solo, but completely suck in multi.

"Keeping up mesmer skin up keeps the less apt players on their feet and doing things."
With this I completely agree, and I believe you just perfectly aimed the reason why everyone are trying to "insult" Revenant. It is an easy obtainable Warframe, which doesn't need a lot of time and resources, time to learn and master, to be able to participate in every content in the game and I believe this is the reason why "pros" are complaining - they have spent a lot to get their favorite Frost to get to the end-game level, they have reach 25MR, and they just can't stand that 4 MR newbie with Hek and Revenant is doing just fine.

"The only real problem I run into with entrall is it doing too good of a job. Sometimes I'll find myself wanting to CC a different area after the objective moves but can't because my horde is too busy distracting enemies on the other side of the map."

I can't agree. I can't keep even 1 Thrall alive. Maybe I am lucky, but in public matchmaking I am getting all the time pros, and I am not even forced to do anything except keeping myself alive. Even playing Interception mission I am not able to find any successful way to use Thralls - in mission where team should be divided in the different areas, so it should provide much higher chance for Thralls to survive a bit. No, it's not happening. Totally OP teammates are jumping using Volt, Gauss, Trinity in blink of an eye clearing everything in the line of sight and other ones are using Mesa, Saryn, Mag, Mirrage, Kulervo to clear the map so fast I can believe they are killing enemies seconds before spawn.

I do not know how some people find so bad teams that they actually need to use Thralls.

It is different in Steel Path of course after scaling enemies to ~300 level when the most popular warframes and weapons are getting hard times because they are not scaling such well and at that moment the min/maxed SP meta stuff is a way to go, but keeping Revenant abilities viable only after 300 enemy level in multiplayer missions is a way to short area to keep him the way he is.

My proposition is not changing the core concept of the Warframe and Enthrall - Thralls must die - but the profits which we gets now are completely useless in almost every multiplayer match and situation up to a 300 enemy level and mine solution is providing less DMG, with more CC for the team, way to use other Revenant abilities/augments, without taking down the possibility to just keep Thralls distracting enemies - just do not kill them and Pillar will not appear - if the enemies kill a Thrall - pillar will just CC them. If you clear the grouped enemies around the pillar - you can use Enthrall in a different location. 

[(PSN)Ragology]

Theres no point behind making Revanents thralls only able to be killed by Revanent.

If enemies are dying as quick as people claim, then you'd end up with an army of thrills that have nothing to shoot at anyway.

 

 

 

[rozdupcajka]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Ragology said:

Theres no point behind making Revanents thralls only able to be killed by Revanent.

If enemies are dying as quick as people claim, then you'd end up with an army of thrills that have nothing to shoot at anyway.

 

 

 

And this is why I did not proposed that. Did you read my first post??

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Rev is Rhino without roar :|

Enthrall spreading around in pubs is a pain in the ass for frames that need an enemy to target, Mesmer skin augment completely shuts down Chroma's Vex Armor, Danse Macabre is a noob trap and Reave is a braindead way to remove any enemy.

Unpopular opinion for sure, but I can't wait for the day he's vaulted.

[Famecans]

Revenant is one of the strongest resistance, crowd control, and damage boost frames in the entire game, I'm talking about a single build that expands these three skills, it's simply a devastating combination. I don't see any need for rework on revenant compared to other frames. Making enemies untargetable for other frames is very anti-game, there are several frames that depend on enemies to maintain abilities.

An indicative factor of a good skill kit is seeing that the build can significantly master two or three skills.

My build is full strength without two-factor timed mods, full duration without two-factor timed mods, full archon shards for casting speed, and finally the icing on the cake is the damage increased per enemy, and the mesmer skin augment. with this you have a build with a solid and very comfortable mesmer skin, you have crowd control that floods crowds quickly and restarts automatically taking the skill time above 2+ minutes, this crowd increases weapon damage insanely which aims to focus enemies eximus, and if you want to use skill 4 just stay close to main enemes, normally you will do this with heavy units.

You know that enemies affected by crowd control are equivalent to enemies killed for the mission, so this makes skill 4 less efficient for higher levels, the only use of skill 4 is in squads focused on speedup resource farm.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Famecans

[Traumtulpe]

Let me see, Revenant is literally permanently invincible and status immune, has low to mid level AoE nuking, CC with his thralls, an instakill combo, a decent movement skill, and an augment to buff weapon damage.

I don't think he needs anything more, honestly. How about we rework Ember (again) instead?

[rozdupcajka]

I think you are not reading my posts, you are all reading just the topic name and you are writing your opinions about Revenant himself and not pointing the proposed changes by me in any way. Is there an moderator in this forum?

"Revenant is literally permanently invincible and status immune - YES - , has low to mid level AoE nuking - Corpus/flesh - YES, Grineer - NO - , CC with his thralls - NOT WORKING -, an instakill combo - NOT WORKING because there are no Thralls, without Thralls Reave even with Roar has no enought power - , a decent movement skill - NO -, and an augment to buff weapon damage - NOT WORKING. "

"Revenant is one of the strongest resistance - YES -, crowd control - NOT WORKING -, and damage boost - Hmmm? What damage boost? Weapon Damage Augment? NOT WORKING - frames in the entire game, I'm talking about a single build that expands these three skills, it's simply a devastating combination. - UNUSABLE FOR 99% OF THE GAME IN MULTIPLAYER"

Just stop it guys. I don't know how are you playing and with who, what Youtube videos are you watching but I am playing only Revenant and only public matchmaking and I know that all of your "solutions" works ONLY when Thralls are alive but it is not possible to keep them alive. Just arrange a 3 players (Mesa, Kulervo + Glaive Prime, Mirage + Tenet Arca Plasmor) with your best possible Revenant build and make a video with only one goal - show everyone how Thralls + Reave is viabla in comparasion to those 3 Warframes. How good CC it has, how much distraction it is causing and how will you outdamage them.

Waste of time. It can not be proven, because it is not working. The videos you are watching are showing Revenant in SOLO situations and pure ONLY-Revenant-dependent situations while I am writing about MULTIPLAYER matches when your teammates have a last decent build with decent AoE weapon at your skill level.

And my solution is NOT ABOUT MAKING THRALLS IMMORTAL! It is changing Pillar and Entrhalling casting time. Nothing more.

 

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 12/11/2023 à 23:22, rozdupcajka a dit :

I am playing only Revenant

See that's the issue there.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2023-11-12 at 11:22 PM, rozdupcajka said:

an instakill combo - NOT WORKING because there are no Thralls, without Thralls Reave even with Roar has no enought power - , a decent movement skill - NO

You are not putting the right mods on your Revenant then. Here, I'll help you out:

That's one cast. Here's the build:

Rush makes you Reave faster/further, if you really want to move fast you can jump and aimglide before it ends.

And this is the primer so your Reave oneshots, it also recharges your energy quickly:

Have fun!

[rozdupcajka]

17 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

You are not putting the right mods on your Revenant then. Here, I'll help you out:

That's one cast. Here's the build:

Rush makes you Reave faster/further, if you really want to move fast you can jump and aimglide before it ends.

And this is the primer so your Reave oneshots, it also recharges your energy quickly:

Have fun!

Hahahaha you just posted a build with a "proof" while playing solo in testing room xD

It is not relevant to the subject AT ALL because I am pointing how Revenant is useless in MULTIPLAYER match not a SINGLEPLAYER match.

You guys just do not understand at all what this thread is about. That's sad.

BTW.
You have only 199% strength and only 60% of subsumed Roar. That is embarrassing. With a basic build (non min/mexed for SP) I have 119% from Roar and also Mesmer Skin shield augment. Your build is a trash. If I were you, I would be ashamed for posting such a bad build.

Here, take this build (The most popular Revenant build there is):
https://overframe.gg/build/374539/revenant-prime/the-lich-king-revenant-general-use-endurance-steel-path-mesmer-tank-and-one-shot-reave/ ,and go be bad somewhere else...

Edited November 14, 2023 by rozdupcajka

[Violent_Sneezes]

I don't think frames necessarily need to be op in both solo and multi.

Support frames (Wisp not-withstanding) are by definition worse in solo than in multi. I think the reverse being true for some other frames is reasonable.

For context I main Nidus who is notoriously bad in multi compared to solo, and I really don't think either he nor Revenant need to be buffed.

If you wanna play multi, and are unsatisfied with Revenant's performance maybe shake up your load-out and try a different frame.

[Traumtulpe]

Just a question for the professional with the clearly superior build, why exactly do you need more than 199% strength when you already oneshot everything at that point? Anyhow, I'll stick to my build, thank you very much. Wouldn't want to get anywhere near that glistening magnificence you just posted.

[rozdupcajka]

3 hours ago, Violent_Sneezes said:

I don't think frames necessarily need to be op in both solo and multi.

Support frames (Wisp not-withstanding) are by definition worse in solo than in multi. I think the reverse being true for some other frames is reasonable.

For context I main Nidus who is notoriously bad in multi compared to solo, and I really don't think either he nor Revenant need to be buffed.

If you wanna play multi, and are unsatisfied with Revenant's performance maybe shake up your load-out and try a different frame.

I dissagree, Nidus is EXCELENT in multiplayer. You lower ability duration to the minimum, build max ability efficiency and range so you can spam Larva every 2 seconds taking the entire room of 999 lv enemies in single spot for someone else to kill them or by yourself with Stier AoE or Piercing weapon, stacking immortality, damage boost and damage for your ultimate. Larva is THE BEST hard CC in the game and is used a lot in Circuit or for example Endo farm. 

I'll say more. Nidus is for me one of a top tier warframes but he is very much underated just because players do not understand his goal and it is not damage, it is just larva - the more larva the better.

I was playing Nidus with Glaive Prime and life leech from melee. With 95% armor and 2000 HP he was immortal larva spammer with absurd AoE damage making every mission easy for the whole team.

Edited November 14, 2023 by rozdupcajka

[rozdupcajka]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Just a question for the professional with the clearly superior build, why exactly do you need more than 199% strength when you already oneshot everything at that point? Anyhow, I'll stick to my build, thank you very much. Wouldn't want to get anywhere near that glistening magnificence you just posted.

Dude, you did not even put a slighest effort the check the link I have sent for the most popular build there is, and there is everything explained...
Quote:
"Reave at base removes 8% of an enemies health regardless of level. This is boosted by enthrall, viral status and roar. Note this does NOT work against acolytes, demolysts and bosses such as liches/archons due to their innate damage reduction. An enthralled enemy takes 5x more damage from Reave meaning only 250% strength is required to one-shot an enthralled target. Viral increases damage by 4.25 at 10 stacks, meaning 295% strength is needed to one-shot a non-enthralled enemy after applying 10 viral status effects. At 313% strength, Roar boosts reave by 1.94x meaning you only need 2 viral status effects to one-shot.

To one shot with NO viral, roar or enthrall you need 1250% strength."

You need at last 250% strength to kill enthralled ANY enemy, but if you want to use reave on enthralled enemies, you need thralls and you WONT HAVE A SINGLE ONE in a multiplayer.

You are totally disqualified from this discussion....

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2023-11-09 at 6:25 PM, rozdupcajka said:

That is the problem. During a game with a team his first tactic is completely useless because clearing speed at higher level is so fast that Thrall is dying even before it can become a Thrall

I see a lot of people list this as a problem but its really not, its a first ability that cost 25 energy, it either gets a free kill since they cant fight back, or you get buckets of extra protection and damage.

If your team is 1 shot killing everything you really dont need protection or damage, if theyre not you will be able to get some thralls to help out

And unlike nekros, if theres too many of the minions around you can kill them which i love

His first ability is very powerful in comparison to a lot of first abilities 

[rozdupcajka]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

If your team is 1 shot killing everything you really dont need protection or damage

If I have skills which I dont need to use because my team is 1 shooting everything....
If I have weapons which I dont need to use because my team is 1 shooting everything...

The game can put me in spectator mode with auto loot gathering. Whats the difference? I am not playing anyway.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, rozdupcajka said:

[...]

That's a lot of words to say nothing at all. The fact is I oneshot with Reave at 199 strength so why should I get more? Still waiting for that answer.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, rozdupcajka said:

If I have skills which I dont need to use because my team is 1 shooting everything....
If I have weapons which I dont need to use because my team is 1 shooting everything...

The game can put me in spectator mode with auto loot gathering. Whats the difference? I am not playing anyway.

Yea it sounds like you want a nuke frame if you really cant get any thralls cause i legit have no issues with his first ability, it useful when i need it to be, and works better than a nekros since i can kill them when theyre in my way also making another thrall being able to get another enemy to turn sides. I get use of it quite often, especially in sp with pub squads.

Its a matter of playstyle. If you really need it to fit your playstyle id recommend Nyx's Subsume as i heard it will keep atleast 1 thrall from dying which is op to me, but other than that, ability is fine as is. I cant agree to any changes to it

Edited November 15, 2023 by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim

[deucich]

3 часа назад, rozdupcajka сказал:

You need at last 250% strength to kill enthralled ANY enemy, but if you want to use reave on enthralled enemies, you need thralls and you WONT HAVE A SINGLE ONE in a multiplayer.

With susbsumed roar and 10 stacks of viral reave drains 108% of enemies' hp at 199 strength (8*1,99*4.25*(1+0.3*1.99)), no need in enthralling. Actually, 189 strength should be enough to oneshot a non-enthralled target that way

[Violent_Sneezes]

14 hours ago, rozdupcajka said:

I dissagree, Nidus is EXCELENT in multiplayer. You lower ability duration to the minimum, build max ability efficiency and range so you can spam Larva every 2 seconds taking the entire room of 999 lv enemies in single spot for someone else to kill them or by yourself with Stier AoE or Piercing weapon, stacking immortality, damage boost and damage for your ultimate. Larva is THE BEST hard CC in the game and is used a lot in Circuit or for example Endo farm. 

I'll say more. Nidus is for me one of a top tier warframes but he is very much underated just because players do not understand his goal and it is not damage, it is just larva - the more larva the better.

I was playing Nidus with Glaive Prime and life leech from melee. With 95% armor and 2000 HP he was immortal larva spammer with absurd AoE damage making every mission easy for the whole team.

Fair, although I prefer a more rounded/solo-oriented build.

However my larger point stands; Revenant does not need to be op in both solo and in multi.

[rozdupcajka]

3 hours ago, Violent_Sneezes said:

Fair, although I prefer a more rounded/solo-oriented build.

However my larger point stands; Revenant does not need to be op in both solo and in multi.

I do not want make him OP in multi or a nuke Warframe. Have you seen my proposed buff? I want a Pillar which is placed after death of a Thrall to pull enemies towards it with no damage at all and change enemies into Thralls (and keep the limit of 7 Thralls active at a time).

I want enemies that are left a live by my team gets Enthralled by the Pillar. I do not want them to avoid pillar all the time, a do not want them to stay still shooting at me around the pillar I want to give the Pillar a reason. 

I am countering you guys all the time. Ok, exmplain to me how this little change make Revenant OP in multiplayer. Your turn.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2023-11-15 at 10:45 AM, rozdupcajka said:

I do not want make him OP in multi or a nuke Warframe. Have you seen my proposed buff? I want a Pillar which is placed after death of a Thrall to pull enemies towards it with no damage at all and change enemies into Thralls (and keep the limit of 7 Thralls active at a time).

I want enemies that are left a live by my team gets Enthralled by the Pillar. I do not want them to avoid pillar all the time, a do not want them to stay still shooting at me around the pillar I want to give the Pillar a reason. 

I am countering you guys all the time. Ok, exmplain to me how this little change make Revenant OP in multiplayer. Your turn.

I just think most here dont want him to be stronger. He feels perfect to us, just not you, its a difference of opinion unfortunately. So conversation wont go anywhere 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

I like Revenant as he is currently, It's nice to have a low stress Cheese Warframe amidst the plethora of high risk high rewards Warframes that we have.

His OP-ness is actually kind of cool, and what made him such a fan favorite frame, and makes any player who isn't a fan of Revenant to fall in love with him immediately ALL except one, a legendary Forumer, the one that shall not be forgotten...I can already hear the thousand cries of those who dare argue with him about Revenants lore accuracy and theme.

 

I love Revenant because he's this kind of frame that is perfect for your convenience...he has three Good abilities, for defense CC and ultimate damage, and fourth ability that you can helminth off for a damage buff, to make a pretty well rounded DPS/tank/support frame....he's perfect.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk