A Complete Rework Of The Foundation Of Warframe.

[Sziklamester]

- What if we try to combine the mod system with a skill tree system? The mod system is fun but kill the variety because have generic mods which no one will pass out from builds and still the build variety is low because the less mods we have and the utility vs damage problem.  Some mods are completely useless and not giving variation some have good abilities but have also bad and have some core mods which make the builds 80% and the rest is your desire. A skill tree system if completed and have dozens of variation to build your own character "more unique" ways than mod your weapon and just click and kill. 

 

- Same with environment and the map low randomity ability. We also have problems with a lot of animation sets and so much thing still not used well enough to keep the interesting.

 

- Back to the mods I think if you buff the old mods and try to more balance others and aura mods then still the problem is the same because in general way the mod system is built for constant improving and here is just only one question have : how hard your mod is? Other things just addition like how build a grakata or how to build up an orthos prime but it's still just improve a weapon and frame but there is no any skill. Skill is when you can avoid a dangerous situation by yourself or you can use more better moves in a battle or you are mor tact than others. This game still not more than a nice looking grind for nothing game but I don't say this game not improving or no have potential but not really use it.

I like this game but hard to make constructive ideas if some peoples like or others not like your ideas because there is no one point which acceptable for all peoples. We can talk about advantages and disadvantages but mostly peoples react to everything by feels.

[Demon093]

 

MFW coming across this thread and seeing all the S#&$ it went through. I think what DE was trying to do was be unique. Not a lot (if any, I dont know any myself) of games use the mod card system, as it is uncommon for a game to use it. Particularly a constantly developing game such as Warframe. I think that DE needs to take a second look because the Mod card system was a quick fix. One that lasted a long time sure. But it wasn't a permanent solution. I think that maybe this post might hold the answer.

 

Now, I haven't been playing this game for as long as some of these people have. And I'm not saying I know any better. Because I did not experience the 'horrors' of the old skill tree system. I think DE has had trouble knowing how to approach this new idea. The Game isn't a 'farm game for mods/drops' The mods should be an aspect of their own, shouldn't be lumped in with knowing that when a new mod comes out, us players know that we'll have to spend hours of doing the same boring missions over and over in order to get those things. (See: Tranq. Cleave and Malicious Raptor to a lesser extent) Drops should be drops; materials, blueprints, credits, ammo, health, energy etc. Of course this leaves a problem: If I can get virtually the same things from every enemy, whats the point of doing anymore than repeating Xini over and over? 

The answer to that question I don't have the answer to. Maybe we'll have some skill tree requirements that is something similar the mini quests they give us "Kill X amount of this enemy in Y fashion" Something that will give us more meaning to go beyond just one faction.

 

Now I'm taking a look at your rework idea OP, and I have to draw similarities with Destiny. Is that where you drew your inspiration from? 

How about the blue potato and the potato? How will those fit into your skill tree design? Considering the Gun Attachment/Accessories model you've provided, how will a potato enhance/fix that? If your plan is to be rid of potatos and the forma; do you think that DE will be able to get the money for that? 

 

Thanks and I really hope this comes up during the latestDEVSTREAM concerning update 14!

[Wynn]

People are glossing over fact that this idea the OP been pushing since last year and been PMing the devs over and over which Scott reply too.

 

At some point if you if you think your idea is that good to push it on people that much make your own game.

 

Op gave a suggestions the Devs have seen it and reply to it why keep pushing it.

[azmyth1]

The Warframe mod system is fine.  Maybe Redirection and vitality could be nerfed a bit, and maybe warframes should get up more quickly by default, but for the most part, modding presents plenty of interesting tradeoffs.  The real mod problem is with weapons, where there is only one decent build: base damage + multishot + elementals (and maybe crit).

[5Billion]

The entire first page of this thread is of Founders who agree with Zamboni's ideas, not just because they think the ideas are cool, but becuase his propositions would make all existing mods useful, add components of skill, and fix the flaws in the current mod system.

 

I don't know what you just said. But I agree 100%

 

 

Warframe is still open beta so I can see this being apart of something in the future.  I really like the concept of choice rather then necessity ~  I like everything about this give or take.  

 

 

I read all of that, I am impressed.

 

Very impressed.

 

 

This is a brilliant explanation of exactly what is wrong with the current system, and an excellent idea for replacing it. DE has already remade the system once when they switched from the skill tree to mod cards, there's no reason they can't do it again.

 

DE, please, look at this and take it to heart. This is exactly what I, and surely many others, want.

 

 

Forma and Potatoes are a relic of the old design and serve no place in the new system. They were merely a way for them to get money out of people unwilling to wait for Alerts. Forma has also become a hurdle for people looking to start a clan. They should have never made Forma a building material. Forma has also made any advantages of Prime Warframes virtually nonexistent.

 

The lack of weapon customization is inherent. The guns themselves should create that variance. That means people who like the Tigris can use it and equip attachments to accentuate its positives and hide the negatives. It means people can play with the guns they like.

 

As for the melee, since the addition of the new system- it has fallen to be the lowest priority for me to explain. The new system is extremely flawed and vapid of depth, but for the mean time it is serviceable.

 

 

Which is my point. While people may be against another overhaul, it is better to do it early on, rather than crawl forward with a failed experiment at the center of your game.

 

 

While I am not sure this is the exact way that warframe should be changed. I do agree with what I can assume your main points are, in that the game itself is fundamentally flawed and it needs to be changed. 

 

That was an excellent read and I hope some, if not all of your ideas are implemented into the game. If you haven't already, you should plug this post on Reddit to get more visibility.

 

I cannot agree more with the rail-roading caused by Serration, Hornet Strike etc., as well as other mods that are just essential and would be pointless not to include in every build. It'd be nice to also have some significance to being a Mastery 14. There's no reward for this much effort other than being able to trade, and by this point in the game, I don't need to buy anything anyway... it just makes me a merchant... selling mods I don't need to new players.

[Zirion_Bk]

 

The entire first page of this thread is of Founders who agree with Zamboni's ideas, not just because they think the ideas are cool, but becuase his propositions would make all existing mods useful, add components of skill, and fix the flaws in the current mod system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was an excellent read and I hope some, if not all of your ideas are implemented into the game. If you haven't already, you should plug this post on Reddit to get more visibility.

 

I cannot agree more with the rail-roading caused by Serration, Hornet Strike etc., as well as other mods that are just essential and would be pointless not to include in every build. It'd be nice to also have some significance to being a Mastery 14. There's no reward for this much effort other than being able to trade, and by this point in the game, I don't need to buy anything anyway... it just makes me a merchant... selling mods I don't need to new players.

 

I don't know if you watched the livestream or Steve's little comment about this, but from that I can basically tell what the answer is going to be, even with his apology in this thread. Zamboni has even PM'd Scott a few times, and gotten replies. AND this thread has been noticed by DE for quite some time according to a PM conversation I had with Rebecca. It has been so long, and melee 2.0 has come out and everything. Overhauling the entire foundation at this point is basically a slap in the face of months upon months of hard work. As a side note, being a founder and agreeing with this does not suddenly make all points valid and needed.

 

Oh, and this:

People are glossing over fact that this idea the OP been pushing since last year and been PMing the devs over and over which Scott reply too.

 

At some point if you if you think your idea is that good to push it on people that much make your own game.

 

Op gave a suggestions the Devs have seen it and reply to it why keep pushing it.

[(PSN)jenax002]

I don't know if you watched the livestream or Steve's little comment about this, but from that I can basically tell what the answer is going to be, even with his apology in this thread. Zamboni has even PM'd Scott a few times, and gotten replies. AND this thread has been noticed by DE for quite some time according to a PM conversation I had with Rebecca. It has been so long, and melee 2.0 has come out and everything. Overhauling the entire foundation at this point is basically a slap in the face of months upon months of hard work. As a side note, being a founder and agreeing with this does not suddenly make all points valid and needed.

 

Oh, and this:

 

Totally agree^^^^... people just do not get the fact that software coding is not a one day job and debugging it is not either. Throwing away a year worth's of coding to create a new system along the same lines as other MMO's and RPG's is not a good way to go. warframe is different and it should stay different. The problem is people will never stop complaining.

 

Let's say DE implements his (zamboni's) idea and then 2 months after that another guy pops up on the forums with a new vision of how the game's foundation should be? And as usual lot of you guys will read that 1 page long post and give him some likes and keep posting stupid comments as to why DE should totally implement his idea. And then when DE comes out and says that 'No this cannot be done because we just did a year's worth of coding to overhaul the system' , all you guys will complain again.

 

And that's the reason you rarely see Developers interacting with Consumers on forums over the game design topics in most other games because people tend to go little bit further and try to jeopardize their vision of the game.

 

The foundation of the game should always be from the game developer because it's his or his team's brainchild. If all developers started listening to the public as to how the foundation of the game should be, then 95% of the games in the same genre will come out to be same. Take for example, the skill tree that he (zamboni) is talking about is already in most of the games. All he did was to put it in different categories and explain it in half a long page. Tell me how does this fall in the same lines of vision that DE has for warframe. DE set out to make this game different (it does have it's flaws) but its still different than all other loot or reward based games. Flaws can be fixed as time progresses (and this is not even a finished game, no end game, lore or anything) but a total overhaul of the foundation of the system will basically mean that the developers have given up on the very idea that they came up with 5-6 years ago when they started building the game.

 

i mean you guys cannot even take a negative comment about yourselves on forums (people literally fight to prove that they are right even though they know they are clearly wrong) and you expect a developer's ego NOT to get hurt if you question his intelligence so publicly on forums. He probably spent most of his life coding and brainstorming and what he (zamboni) did was to just combine lot of the ideas from other games and put it together on a single post.

Edited July 5, 2014 by (PS4)jenax002

[RealmDestroyer]

I'm going to say again, the melee system you have looks like Remember Me.

[Clasbyte]

@theGreatZamboni

 

Impressive work, very nicely done!

 

@Steve

It does take courage to admit that.

[NoSpax]

OP is too lazy to farm mods, so he wants to change Warframe from

Mods back to Skill-trees, where full customization is lost entirely. lol

 

That way he bypasses RNG and loses the ability to change loadouts.

Skill-trees suck hard, since they dictate what you have to skill where and how.

"Collect 2 points to level XXX up, but you can't level YYY anymore" *throws it out of the window* Gawrbage.

One of the reasons I hate RPG featuring them, even PSO2 does have this boolS#&$e and its not funny.

 

I hate to be limited to X - every time, I ran out of skill tree points by having to skill a complete senseless skill,

just to have the skill on the branch behind it, which is a waste of skill-points and time.

That why I favor the mod-system, I have total control of my loadout and one of the reasons Forma were invented.

 

A better solution is to either rebalance mods or just give us +2 Mods-Slots per Frame and Weapons.

That way we have even more room to customize.

 

However removing Mods from Droptables will have the enemies drop what right now?

Jup, nothing at all. So removing Mods would remove drops too.

In other words: Why play the game, where you get nothing?

 

Removing Mods alltogether would remove a huge part of the game - even things which resulted from having Mods.

No Mods = No Selling them in Trade-Chat for Plat

Transmutation - Get mods by sacrificing mods.

Fusion - And cores - which could be sold for Plat.

Forma? Gone

Potatoes? No Mod Slots anymore, lets delete them from the game.

 

By removing Mods, we lose the abilty to sell them (trade them) for small amounts of Plat.

 

Some players don't realize, if the Mod-system was removed, a lot of the game would be rendered obsolete.

Making Warframe boring as hell, cause there is nothing to archieve anymore.

Why farm Forma? no reason to. Potatos? What is that?

 

A lot of people might have bought Forma and Potatos by Plat,

will they get compensation of wasting their money on stuff which is gonna be obsolete soon?

DE won't get any money as well, since things we need were removed lol.

 

Bottomline:

Removing the Mod-System would break the entire foundation of Warframe.

Skill-tree suck hard, why even propose them as an excuse for more Mod-Slots instead?

 

If your weapons are too weak, don't blame the mods, blame the basic stats of the weapon itself.

Thats why people like the Soma, Penta, Ogris, Dread, Boltor P, Paris P, cause all these weapon have high stats,

benefiting the most of the mod-system which based on percentage, not fixed values.

And here is where DE can start.

 

Why have Serration, when we could have a mod, which ADDS Points to each dmg-stat?

A MK1 could have 60 cut DMG, instead of 21 with just Serration. adding splitshot to 120 cut and add serration to it

Well, I never seen a MK1 with 240+ on Cut before, but at least it can blow Level 40-50 away.

This would be a way to increase weapons.

 

Basic rule of gamers: Doesn't matter how balanced a weapon is, players will find out a way to imbalance them.

[5Billion]

I don't know if you watched the livestream or Steve's little comment about this, but from that I can basically tell what the answer is going to be, even with his apology in this thread. Zamboni has even PM'd Scott a few times, and gotten replies. AND this thread has been noticed by DE for quite some time according to a PM conversation I had with Rebecca. It has been so long, and melee 2.0 has come out and everything. Overhauling the entire foundation at this point is basically a slap in the face of months upon months of hard work. As a side note, being a founder and agreeing with this does not suddenly make all points valid and needed.

 

Oh, and this:

 

I don't know if you watched the livestream or Steve's little comment about this, but from that I can basically tell what the answer is going to be, even with his apology in this thread. Zamboni has even PM'd Scott a few times, and gotten replies. AND this thread has been noticed by DE for quite some time according to a PM conversation I had with Rebecca. It has been so long, and melee 2.0 has come out and everything. Overhauling the entire foundation at this point is basically a slap in the face of months upon months of hard work. As a side note, being a founder and agreeing with this does not suddenly make all points valid and needed.

 

Oh, and this:

I definitely watched the stream (twice actually) and it's a real shame that the Devs can't just look at some of the things we want changed in the game.

 

People keep saying "no one knows the game better than the Devs, and it's his game" This is slightly true, because some of the Devs don't even play the game, and a lot of veterans and Founders have amazing ideas that could revolutionize the game. Sure there is alot of stupid and crap suggestions on the forums, but if you're just going to ignore an issue alot of players have, then your game is going to fail. That's just the truth man.

 

I realize now that the Devs won't be changing gameplay elements by the time summer ends (my educated guess) which is going to leave alot of veterans with nothing to do. If Steve doesn't want to change or even look at a system at has problems, then that's on him.

[Zirion_Bk]

I definitely watched the stream (twice actually) and it's a real shame that the Devs can't just look at some of the things we want changed in the game.

 

People keep saying "no one knows the game better than the Devs, and it's his game" This is slightly true, because some of the Devs don't even play the game, and a lot of veterans and Founders have amazing ideas that could revolutionize the game. Sure there is alot of stupid and crap suggestions on the forums, but if you're just going to ignore an issue alot of players have, then your game is going to fail. That's just the truth man.

 

I realize now that the Devs won't be changing gameplay elements by the time summer ends (my educated guess) which is going to leave alot of veterans with nothing to do. If Steve doesn't want to change or even look at a system at has problems, then that's on him.

Veterans and founders have great ideas, that much is true. But having good ideas does not allow one to make such a inflammatory and almost insulting first paragraph. I also get the feeling that the post looks down on the team.

 

Ignoring issues that players have is not good, no. But if you watch the huge list of hotfixes, updates, bugfixes throughout this game's history and so on, you will notice that a lot of them goes answered. However, things concering the mod system is another beast in that it affects every frame, weapon and sentinel. Reworking the mod system or rebalancing it can cause issues with some, if not all, frames and weapons, which will then need tweaks or balancing and so on to keep their performance the same. It's such a huge amount of work for the devs even if it does not look like much to the players posting their issues.

 

If you were to say "Nerf Serration" to the devs right now, they'd have to go through every primary weapon (Aside from shotguns) and add weapon damage increasing with rank to make up for the loss of damage. But then the rest of the damage mods needs the same "nerf" and the weapons need reworks and suddenly we have about 300 weapons to adjust individually. See how much work that becomes, with just one suggestion? It's easier said than done at it's purest form.

 

They are taking a look at the system, but they are not replacing it. There's a difference between the two. And as I said earlier, some issues are way harder to fix than others.

[Wynn]

TitNinja your glossing over the fact that the devs have seen this idea SINCE LAST YEAR and been sent to them in  MULTIPLE PMS  and  got response to. This point its going beyond giving feedback and now trying to force demands.

[43Emprah]

A lot of it is hyperbole, the last 3 is me being a pompous @$$. LOL

If my responses fueled that for you, it honestly wasn't my intent. We have points where we disagree, but I was just trying to find some common ground, and hopefully get on the same page for some constructive discussion.

We all have off-days. This may have been one of yours, just like that moment on stream was one of Steve's.

 

[43Emprah]

I also want to point out, that while I wholeheartedly disagree with the removal of the mod system. I don't disagree entirely with the OP. I understand the motivations for his post, and the underlying problems. I just don't entirely agree with the solution, or the way delivery of that solution was handled.

[Me.KayOh]

Yeah, I mean, christ. It's not like I want everything we stay to be plugged in. People keep missing my point, and maybe it's because I'm terrible at articulating my thoughts through a keyboard. Can't help it.

 

But unfortunately and maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems like anything we really get behind is shot down, or just straight up ignored. Not saying shot down means not rushed into the pipeline. Shot down more like, a dismissive hand gesture, that's the impression I get, and what's funny is when the devs actually talk to the guys who make these suggestions, they..actually kind of listen. There is a failure to communicate here. I'll get into hot topics 2.0 (hah!) in a minute.

 

And if everything was realtively fine, there wouldin't be a problem..But, we know there are a lot of problems. But the game still seems headed in the same direction..in the face of our boomigly loud opposition to it. Prime example, void dilution. Like, they acknoledge it, say we're gonna do something about it...and it turns out T4 just makes it worse. They still can't seem to want to flesh out Defense.. We've given so many ideas on to do it. Are they bad? Or do they just not care? Did they forget about Defense again? Why can't we work on things like Defense, and end the power creep. Why are we being forced to play domination, or whatever that new mode is to get those T4 keys? It just seems like every solution is just an "Ahh, I dunno, *waves hand* just throw that in there..hell with it givem another scarf!"

 

Two CM's, not saying they're not doing their jobs. But are they given enough agency to be the middleladies (heh) between us, the unwashed masses (when I say things like that I just mean, we're not developers, just a bunch of serfs yelling outside of a castle..it's a metaphor.) And the developers? It seems companies just like to use them as people who are here to drum up faux support, and focus on soothing their agenda..rather than being of more service, and actually trying to figure out what we're happy about, upset about..etc. I knew a few CM's some from Triple A studios, and some from kinda sorta indie medium sized ones, and they would basically tell me that they gave up trying to help the game..developers just seem to laugh at them, and send them out of their offices.

 

The hot topics thing was a good idea, I wanna see where that goes. It does suggest that they are collating our ACTUAL hot topics, in a way that a developer can read it, sans all this god damn hyperbole we love to fill threads with. Again, I don't want all of our ideas thrown in their pipeline. I just want them to know, and let us know that we're trying too. We're trying to make things better..and when you're reacting to feedback, don't blow it off. Doesn't mean you really blew it off, but you do get a sense of "pah, yeah right" Steve apologized, Adam? Talked to Phil in PM's and actually heard what he proposed as suggestions, and liked them. We need more of THAT. They got the tools. They just need to use em better. I don't know what Megan and Rebeccas work day is, or what they do behind the scenes.. But I feel as if they're just PR/Damage control, rather than a CM. And that goes for a lot of the industry.

 

And, new policy. I'm gonna stick to just ignoring people who get all super defensive, and angry.. Maybe then I can calm down a little. Cause, what the hell, where does it even go?

You talk about changes that should be made in the game, yet everything you've said so far with respect to how the developers behave, how they treat they fans and our feedback (they do listen to fans btw so....???), how they reason out the decisions they make, are pure speculative and irrationalised opinions. they are insulting, unneeded and unbecoming of someone who wishes to maintain warframe's successes and also aid in it becoming even better. you're channeling the same disrespectful unhelpful attitude that zamboni exuded in his initial post. great...more of the same...sure that'll help....  -.-

 

I've read all your recent comments here and my advice to you is to leave the warframe community and the game, and go make your own game since no other game interests you and you're already close to being finished with this one (lolrly?) don't do us any favours by informing us of the moment when your game gets as big as warframe. good luck and thanks. 

[Mountain_Dew_Camacho]

My 2¢:

 

when i 1st started i aspired to get what are now the common core mods.  they represented 1/20th of choices available for the 10 slots.

 

take weapons for example... of course you will use serration / hornet. so, u have 9/10 slots to play with.  90% of the space to play with ~10 mods... sounds good.

 

as time went on, more mods were introduced and we had the luxury of replacing 1 stat for a dual stat.  made us feel good, worked better.  times were good.

 

now reverse feedback enters the scene: that is, over time these 'must have' mods influence the weapon design.  I propose that, instead of 

lowering the guns to compensate for the power cards now give, incorporate the 'must haves' inherently into the level of the guns so we still have 90% of the mod slots to play with.

 

do the math!

what does every rifle in the game have in common?

1) serration

2) split chamber

3) shred

4) Heavy Calibur

 

5,6, 7) dual stat mods  *soon to be a 4th?

 

3 slots left, mostly will find:

6) hammer shot

7) Point Strike

8) Vital Sense

 

where one has to choose whether to increase ammo, fire speed, reload speed, status damage/chance... etc.  The fun stuff.

 

In this case I am suggesting to move at least the 4 common core cards into the weapons themselves, unlocking as they level up.

 

same with frames.

 

OR

 

more cards slots.  either would make me happy : )

 

TL;DR: im not knocking the system, its really cool.  just that every time new cards are added without a consistent % increase in slots to put them, the game experience cannot remain the same.  Consider adding a new card spot for every 10 new cards introduced to the game.

 

thanks for your consideration!

[Valfunde]

Ok.
This is indeed an intersting thread.

I don't get the real problem that is evoked with the mods but it looks like a lot of people hate it.

 

Anyway, I have several problems with your system.
First, I need a reward to play a mission. That's stupid but trying "fun stuff" with nothing to potentially drop would make me bored in <10h. And don't talk to me about ressources.

Then according to you we could max a frame by staying on mercury, just with the xp. That's lame, we wouldn't have a reason to play on great tilesets such a desert, shipyard etc. because the only interesting reward would be the boss to get plans for the frame/weapon/attachement.

Furthermore about the build diversity you promote about the frames... There are currently frames that has to be built in a certain way to be efficient at high level. And a skill tree wouldn't change a thing about it. Look a WoW. There were great skill trees, but still, be it in pvp or pve, most of the characters were clones, and for a reason, except for some points, there were core stats to take.

My last point is about the potatoes and the forma. What do you do about them ? I know you would like to but you simply can"t wipe them from the table. So a potatoless frame would be locked at lvl 15 ? Or a potatoed one get 2pt/lvl ?

And about the forma ? Would they give a flat bonus in point ? Making it possible to get EVERY SINGLE POINT IN THE TREE ?

 

The main good thing in your post is to point what's wrong. But your system is, imo, much worse than the current one.
An example : you kept saying that serration is pointless. But at least that's an element that brings a progression to the player. A slow but needed one. So that yours only gives very restricted progress on a large scale. The only bonus being the ones from mastery.

 

Ah, and one more thing. With your system, what would be the point to make new events ?

[lMasterBetal]

Ok.

This is indeed an intersting thread.

I don't get the real problem that is evoked with the mods but it looks like a lot of people hate it.

 

Anyway, I have several problems with your system.

First, I need a reward to play a mission. That's stupid but trying "fun stuff" with nothing to potentially drop would make me bored in <10h. And don't talk to me about ressources.

Then according to you we could max a frame by staying on mercury, just with the xp. That's lame, we wouldn't have a reason to play on great tilesets such a desert, shipyard etc. because the only interesting reward would be the boss to get plans for the frame/weapon/attachement.

Furthermore about the build diversity you promote about the frames... There are currently frames that has to be built in a certain way to be efficient at high level. And a skill tree wouldn't change a thing about it. Look a WoW. There were great skill trees, but still, be it in pvp or pve, most of the characters were clones, and for a reason, except for some points, there were core stats to take.

My last point is about the potatoes and the forma. What do you do about them ? I know you would like to but you simply can"t wipe them from the table. So a potatoless frame would be locked at lvl 15 ? Or a potatoed one get 2pt/lvl ?

And about the forma ? Would they give a flat bonus in point ? Making it possible to get EVERY SINGLE POINT IN THE TREE ?

 

The main good thing in your post is to point what's wrong. But your system is, imo, much worse than the current one.

An example : you kept saying that serration is pointless. But at least that's an element that brings a progression to the player. A slow but needed one. So that yours only gives very restricted progress on a large scale. The only bonus being the ones from mastery.

 

Ah, and one more thing. With your system, what would be the point to make new events ?

 

I have to disagree with your second point about there being no reason to go to other worlds. You state that the only interesting rewards would be from the bosses but Zamboni offered other ways of collecting loot. In the words of TheGreatZamboni...

 

"While these should be visual attachments, that is indeed a lot of work. Just implementing the system and adding the visual attachments later would suffice. Due to attachments being crafted items, it allows for more blueprints to be added to ClanTech and the store. Encounter bosses or Alerts could also serve as a method to obtain blueprints for attachments. There would need to be a balance, as to avoid the overuse of RNG again."

 

If many of the rewards were found in Alerts and you only had Mercury alerts available, it would be difficult to get the parts that you want. It's for that reason why people constantly beg for Taxis to X because they want those Blueprints. By locking worlds based on mastery rank (Or ship level in the future), it would give players the incentive to leave Mercury and venture into new sectors such as Venus, Earth, and the rest of the celestial bodies that we can visit.

 

I also you didn't see the problem Zamboni has with Serration. The problem is that we have many unused weapon mods because damage mods such as Serration are a necessity for every weapon in the game. That increases the lack of creativity in your builds by having less slots to fill.

 

You don't have to agree with Zamboni's Skill Tree system and that's fine. Am I hesitant on the skill tree solution? Yes, but by making every weapon in the game deal decent(Not great) damage against its foes from the start, you allows people to have mods that they wouldn't normally use. That variety of builds is what Warframe needs in order to be a fun experience for everyone. Sure people will search and find the cut and paste builds, but in the end the true fun will be experimenting with crazy builds. Just as how in LoL, there are people who try to "Break the meta" by trying new builds or tactics, Warframe would be no different.

 

I understand the other points you make and I do agree with you on the diversity in frames. I think that like you said, the "kit" of the warframe is designed to be built in a specific way in order to be effective late game. Is this a good thing? It alienates other abilities such as how Nova's only MPrime and that's not good. Is it a necessary design due to the difficulty of enemies by endgame, I think it is unfortunately.

[Awazx]

Dear theGreatZamboni

 

Your proposal is simply to extraordinary. But there is a problem and that problem is not in your proposal. The problem you face has to do with human psychology.

 

Your ideas are better than anything currently existing Warframe. But neither Steve nor anyone in DE will incorporate. You have gained considerable popularity with your post and that's now a factor that plays against you. Why?

 

Humans are proud. Creative minds and hold leadership positions (as Steve) are even more proud. Never allow "other" is better than them. Even if your ideas are brilliant (and no doubt would improve the game in all aspects) Steve never allow theGreatZamboni proves to everyone that your system is better.

 

I am sorry. There are technical problems making your ideas are unworkable. It is a struggle of vanities.

[Zirion_Bk]

Dear theGreatZamboni

 

Your proposal is simply to extraordinary. But there is a problem and that problem is not in your proposal. The problem you face has to do with human psychology.

 

Your ideas are better than anything currently existing Warframe. But neither Steve nor anyone in DE will incorporate. You have gained considerable popularity with your post and that's now a factor that plays against you. Why?

 

Humans are proud. Creative minds and hold leadership positions (as Steve) are even more proud. Never allow "other" is better than them. Even if your ideas are brilliant (and no doubt would improve the game in all aspects) Steve never allow theGreatZamboni proves to everyone that your system is better.

 

I am sorry. There are technical problems making your ideas are unworkable. It is a struggle of vanities.

There's also the issue with his first paragraph being inflammatory and a bit insulting. Steve kinda lost it and called the idea BS because of that paragraph. And then we have the problem with that months or years of work would be for naught if the system got implemented, not counting the time and effort players spent to find and rank their mods.

[Yaerion]

Bastilling the thread to boltor prime some posts unrelated to the 1P since few pages. Will release when every tumor will be eradicated.

Done. The hives are destroyed, for now. To not let them grow again, consider those 2 points:

 

1) TheGreatZamboni asks everyone to focus on his 1P, and stop commenting the intervention of Steve. Steve was talking to the author, now stop turning his post into a corrupting entity which will commit the topic to the Infestation.

 

2) Comment everything blueprinted in the 1P. If you have something to say about Steve/DE, these resources won't match into TGZ's blueprint so you'll be off-topic, thus don't craft.

 

Thanks.

[_Chaser]

i agree with pretty much everything except melee part.

 

OP nailed it quite well. right now,  your weapons are nothing, but a container for mods, as weapons are not viable on it's own as supposed to be and recieving additional functionality with slight modification, but fully dependant on mods.

 

removing damage mods will greatly improve the game itself aswell as balancing. mods should not be the center piece of weapon, but the weapon itself.

 

i have no idea what in minds of 12 y/o people who worship DE and gladly accept obvious flaws. I personally spent a chunk of money because of how open-ended the developement of the game was. Thats the main reason, not because i ever needed all the plat i bought. as long as the game IMPROVE and developers work on fixing flaws, even if it had to be controvercial and major game changers, i will stay loyal customer, otherwise i see no reason to spend a dime.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Einde
Made slightly more convenient.

[(PSN)RaivynLyken]

See? this is another piece of evidence i was gonna use earlier, but thanks for saying it

 

weapons can only be modded for so many things, either crit, elemental, status, dmg, or a combination of those.

 

and most of the time elemental mods are just thrown down and ppl dont even consider crit or status because the % are too low

 

AND most of the dmg mods are elemental mods too, so mods like finishing touch, parry, the channeling mods, the smite mods, and reach arent used.SURE they are used but for specific weapons, like reach on Serro or life strike on Ichors.

 

and thats just weapons alone, look at all the mods not being used for frames, too many to list

 

 This is something (I'm late to the party here), that I've noticed recently. Having leveled several different guns I'm finding myself most commonly using the following mods (I missed out on my chance for Cicero Crisis mods). I'll use my Braton Prime for my example to be specific (Catalysted and Forma upgraded 6 times to allow full efficiency).

 

Hammershot - For Increased Status Effect (Crit on Braton is to low to find it worthwhile)

 

High Voltage (Tethra Crisis) - Lightning + Elemental Status Effect

 

Splitchamber - Multifire Chance

 

Serration - Added Damage, No Brainer Here

 

Wildfire - +90% Fire Damage + Firerate

 

Shred - Punch through + Firerate

 

Stormbringer - To Increase Elemental Status Provided by High Voltage

 

Rifle Ammo Mutation - For Ammo Regeneration.

 

 Unfortunately this is a set up I'm seeing pop up on a lot of my weapons as I'm one of those who prefers radiation damage. Why? I do a lot of Orokin Derelict as well as Grineer based runs. I will sometimes change it up with the following (my Soma is built much differently same with Dread/Paris Prime).

 

Hammershot - For Increased Status Effect (Crit on Braton is to low to find it worthwhile)

 

Infected Clip - Viral Damage

 

Splitchamber - Multifire Chance

 

Serration - Added Damage, No Brainer Here

 

High Voltage - Lightning/Status Effect

 

Shred - Punch through + Firerate

 

Stormbringer - To Increase Elemental Status Provided by High Voltage

 

Rifle Ammo Mutation - For Ammo Regeneration.

 

 Those are my most common set up, which should not be, and unfortunately is. I really think we need to see new mods or some of the old mods reworked in order for us to have a truly diverse and definitely thought provoking experience that will make us lean towards one mod over another. Doing this would give more meaning to some mods, but also give us something to work forwards to. Same goes for Warframe mods. Almost ALL my Warframes us the same ones, which is kind of a bummer in a lot of ways. Gives me no variation in what I need to survive or a supply and demand reasoning behind trading. Most Common Used (Nekros will be my prime example as he's my primary frame):

 

Energy Siphon (Aura)

Soul Punch

Shadows of the Dead

Desecrate

Natural Talent

Blind Rage

Streamline

Intensify

Flow

Fleeting Expertise 

Redirection

 

 Unfortunately, this has become a common scenario for many of my Warframes. I've gone to this due to the ability to cast abilities, but cut the cost and still deal enough damage that is almost irrelevant how much energy I have since Nekros has a high chance of popping orbs. I'd love to see a set of mods come out that will challenge my build that I feel is useful and in a sense - perfect. Especially new mods. Ones that will make me rethink survival over power or perhaps more power to survive. I've noticed the most variation of mods used are in my melee weapons since not any of them actually use most of the same mods except for an elemental effect. Some I guy for speed and range. Others I go for energy channel damage, etc. I'd love to see weapons and Warframe mods challenge me to craft the perfect equipment setup, but as someone else said. Rifles are canisters for mods and are almost useless without them due to weak base damage. Hopefully this will change, but we will see. This game is still young and takes a lot of work to do.

Edited July 6, 2014 by (PS4)RaivynLyken

[5Billion]

i agree with pretty much everything except melee part.

 

OP nailed it quite well. right now,  your weapons are nothing, but a container for mods, as weapons are not viable on it's own as supposed to be and recieving additional functionality with slight modification, but fully dependant on mods.

 

removing damage mods will greatly improve the game itself aswell as balancing. mods should not be the center piece of weapon, but the weapon itself.

 

i have no idea what in minds of 12 y/o hamsters who worship DE and gladly accept obvious flaws. I personally spent a chunk of money because of how open-ended the developement of the game was. Thats the main reason, not because i ever needed all the plat i bought. as long as the game IMPROVE and developers work on fixing flaws, even if it had to be controvercial and major game changers, i will stay loyal customer, otherwise i see no reason to spend a dime.

They're called White Knights, and they'll ride [DE]Steve, [DE]Megan, and [DE]Rebecca 'til the day the game dies. And maybe even beyond that. 

 

 This is something (I'm late to the party here), that I've noticed recently. Having leveled several different guns I'm finding myself most commonly using the following mods (I missed out on my chance for Cicero Crisis mods). I'll use my Braton Prime for my example to be specific (Catalysted and Forma upgraded 6 times to allow full efficiency).

 

-snip-

 

 Unfortunately this is a set up I'm seeing pop up on a lot of my weapons as I'm one of those who prefers radiation damage. Why? I do a lot of Orokin Derelict as well as Grineer based runs. I will sometimes change it up with the following (my Soma is built much differently same with Dread/Paris Prime).

 

-snip-

 

 Those are my most common set up, which should not be, and unfortunately is. I really think we need to see new mods or some of the old mods reworked in order for us to have a truly diverse and definitely thought provoking experience that will make us lean towards one mod over another. Doing this would give more meaning to some mods, but also give us something to work forwards to. Same goes for Warframe mods. Almost ALL my Warframes us the same ones, which is kind of a bummer in a lot of ways. Gives me no variation in what I need to survive or a supply and demand reasoning behind trading. Most Common Used (Nekros will be my prime example as he's my primary frame):

 

-snip-

 

 Unfortunately, this has become a common scenario for many of my Warframes. I've gone to this due to the ability to cast abilities, but cut the cost and still deal enough damage that is almost irrelevant how much energy I have since Nekros has a high chance of popping orbs. I'd love to see a set of mods come out that will challenge my build that I feel is useful and in a sense - perfect. Especially new mods. Ones that will make me rethink survival over power or perhaps more power to survive. I've noticed the most variation of mods used are in my melee weapons since not any of them actually use most of the same mods except for an elemental effect. Some I guy for speed and range. Others I go for energy channel damage, etc. I'd love to see weapons and Warframe mods challenge me to craft the perfect equipment setup, but as someone else said. Rifles are canisters for mods and are almost useless without them due to weak base damage. Hopefully this will change, but we will see. This game is still young and takes a lot of work to do.

I agree with you, and thanks for using more concrete evidence to back me up.

If they're not willing to experiment with the game, then those players that see problems with it are just going to bounce. The warframes now have zero uniqueness, they'll all just the same mods with slightly different abilities and stats. There have been numerous suggestions posted on ways to spice up the game, too. It's not like people are just pointing out the problems; there are tons of suggestions and positive feedback.

 

In short, we wouldn't be complaining if we didn't care about the game.

Edited July 6, 2014 by TitNinja